Dak has all the weapons, and has time. So his play is on him.
Jones has no weapons (the WRs may not even be on the team next year), no time (70% pressures is a playoff record I believe), and is against the #1 seed. So I give him a lot more slack than Dak.
Right now I'd take Jones because he is about 5 years younger than Dak, and still has a chance to improve. Dak is what Dak is, a 15-20 qB in the league.
Prescott has been in the league for 6 years and he is playing worse now than he has
Jones has been in the league for 4 years and is now playing the best football in his career.
In the same regard, I do not see Prescott's performance improving significantly going forward. However, I think it is reasonable to foresee Jones getting better as he gains more experience and better circumstances.
In my view, Jones is the better choice going foward.
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
The big question is - how much do you pay to keep him?
A guy like Dak (or other guys you can call average) are paid $35-40 million/year.
This model has proven to be unsuccessful. Only a very few are paid that much and can still carry their team. Arguably, only Mahomes has proven that lately?
Burrow is still on his rookie deal. Josh Allen still has to prove he can do it.
So, the Giants will (or threaten) to tag Jones and hope to work out a deal they can build around.
I guess with another year of trimming the fat,
Schoen should be able to get appreciably more talent -
even while paying Jones
If this staff has proven anything. It has proven they can get the most of the talent they have.
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
And how are you building this really good team if Jones is eating up 18-20% of the cap? Other players (Lawrence, Thomas, McKinney, etc.) have to get paid too.
and his rise from being a 4th rounder to a top 10-15 QB.
This year, however, he really struggled.
I thought perhaps he found it after a dazzling performance last Monday against Tampa. But today the bad turnovers cost Dallas at least a chip shot FG attempt and the other led to a San Fran FG.
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
And how are you building this really good team if Jones is eating up 18-20% of the cap? Other players (Lawrence, Thomas, McKinney, etc.) have to get paid too.
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
My mistake, I misinterpreted your post. We both agree on this.
The QB contracts are out of control. I honestly don't know how the NFL is going to fix this problem.
I was out watching the Cowboys/49ers game and was talking with a Vikings fan. Their best player is on a rookie contract, their defense is absolute dogshit, and they are $23M over the cap heading into the offseason.
There has to be a breaking point coming. At some point the best solution is to just draft a QB almost every year while keeping a strong overall roster until you hit on an elite guy.
The big question is - how much do you pay to keep him?
A guy like Dak (or other guys you can call average) are paid $35-40 million/year.
This model has proven to be unsuccessful. Only a very few are paid that much and can still carry their team. Arguably, only Mahomes has proven that lately?
Burrow is still on his rookie deal. Josh Allen still has to prove he can do it.
So, the Giants will (or threaten) to tag Jones and hope to work out a deal they can build around.
I guess with another year of trimming the fat,
Schoen should be able to get appreciably more talent -
even while paying Jones
If this staff has proven anything. It has proven they can get the most of the talent they have.
Jones top 10? I'll need to see another year before I give him that. I'll take him over Dak though.
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
And how are you building this really good team if Jones is eating up 18-20% of the cap? Other players (Lawrence, Thomas, McKinney, etc.) have to get paid too.
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
Think it’s time to stop talking about Herbert like he’s Jesus. The guy went multiple games to end the season without throwing a td or throwing 1 td a game and absolutely folded Ala Matt Ryan with the game in hand in the playoffs. He has work to do
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
Name some franchise QBs who could have done better with team than Jones.
Take your time.
It is a useless exercise. You will just disagree with his list. Everyone is dug in on their position here. Let me just ask you this. How much are you willing to give Jones?
Do you think the Titans, Vikings, Raiders, Commanders, etc. are happy they paid their QBs? It is very possible that all of those teams make a change this offseason.
Dak mediocre not even mentioning pick 6 that he threw that was dropped on the first play of last drive....AND getting paid $40 million per year! As far as I'm concerned, locking up Jones for a number starting with 3 given his age and trajectory will be a win.
If not tagged, DJ should get $35-40 mill per year,
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
yes, but if you pay the group of 10 or the rest too much, you may struggle at other positions.
RE: If not tagged, DJ should get $35-40 mill per year,
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
My mistake, I misinterpreted your post. We both agree on this.
The QB contracts are out of control. I honestly don't know how the NFL is going to fix this problem.
I was out watching the Cowboys/49ers game and was talking with a Vikings fan. Their best player is on a rookie contract, their defense is absolute dogshit, and they are $23M over the cap heading into the offseason.
There has to be a breaking point coming. At some point the best solution is to just draft a QB almost every year while keeping a strong overall roster until you hit on an elite guy.
Might be a bit out of left field and owners probably wouldn’t go for it but how about each team gets to designate one player’s salary being exempt from the cap?
I like the guy, he cannot get them across the line. So I'd run with DJ.
(FWIW, I said after the Tampa game that Dak's numbers were good only because he was playing against a no show defense)
With Jones, the Giants should know what they have. We the fans really do not. We change game to game as per how Jones did the week previously.
I was for the 4-5 year deal in the mid $30's range. I still am, but is Jones another Dak? Good but not good enough? I would be for the Tag, but the Giants would then be just kicking the can down the road each year. I think it is time to shit or get off the pot. Only Daboll and Schoen really know what Jones can do. Pay him, or let him walk...
I think Prescott is a good example that you can’t compensate a QB based on their high water mark, but instead take into account the whole body of work.
I have too many Cowboy fans in my family so I watch their games. I have mentioned numerous times that while Dak’s stats are very good if you look at who he beats you see a different storyline. While he has overachieved for a 4th round pick he has many flaws that a good supporting cast can overcome. He is great with a clean pocket. Look at Buc’s game. He is not accurate, terrible footwork, locks into targets, does not read defenses well. The good defenses bring out the flaws.
I think Cousin's $35 mil is the ceiling on a Jones contract
I think Prescott is a good example that you can’t compensate a QB based on their high water mark, but instead take into account the whole body of work.
Agreed but the problem with this board and the fan base is after playing the Colts and Vikings they want to pay Jones top dollar. In reality, his pay is somewhere between the Vikings game and Eagles game. There's even a comment on this thread about Dak playing well against a subpar Tampa D but no one would say the same about Jones last week. Vikings D was the 30th ranked D in the league. Lets try to see the whole picture and not just focus on his 2 best performances.
I think locking him up for 3 years is ideal for 27-31m a year. I'll be upset if its 35-40m a year b/c the concern is filling out the roster and it will be harder with 40m committed to Jones. I do not think he is worth that money. Good thing for management, my opinion doesn't matter.
Start Taylor and use the 35 million to upgrade the roster?
The 49'r are about to answer that question.
I'm leaning more to upgrading the roster. Jones is good but I don't think he is elite.
AT $35MM I take DJ. At $40 not so much. Those top level guys cost $50, not $40. I think Burrows gets extended this year and we need to get DJ done before that if we are going to extend him. Burrows is going to get more than Mahomes.
On the other hand if we don't sign DJ for $35MM we can get a new Kenny golladay and a new Nate Solder both.
Yes, we have the guy that only throws INTs against good defenses, as opposed to.Dak.who throws them against everyone. However, we also have the QB who doesn't throw TDs, especially against good defenses.
I'll take neither...but if I had to choose, Dak all day. DJ would do absolutely nothing against the 49ers D, like he did against the Eagles.
RE: I think Cousin's $35 mil is the ceiling on a Jones contract
Jones has no weapons (the WRs may not even be on the team next year), no time (70% pressures is a playoff record I believe), and is against the #1 seed. So I give him a lot more slack than Dak.
Right now I'd take Jones because he is about 5 years younger than Dak, and still has a chance to improve. Dak is what Dak is, a 15-20 qB in the league.
Prescott has been in the league for 6 years and he is playing worse now than he has
Jones has been in the league for 4 years and is now playing the best football in his career.
In the same regard, I do not see Prescott's performance improving significantly going forward. However, I think it is reasonable to foresee Jones getting better as he gains more experience and better circumstances.
In my view, Jones is the better choice going foward.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
A guy like Dak (or other guys you can call average) are paid $35-40 million/year.
This model has proven to be unsuccessful. Only a very few are paid that much and can still carry their team. Arguably, only Mahomes has proven that lately?
Burrow is still on his rookie deal. Josh Allen still has to prove he can do it.
So, the Giants will (or threaten) to tag Jones and hope to work out a deal they can build around.
I guess with another year of trimming the fat,
Schoen should be able to get appreciably more talent -
even while paying Jones
If this staff has proven anything. It has proven they can get the most of the talent they have.
Quote:
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
And how are you building this really good team if Jones is eating up 18-20% of the cap? Other players (Lawrence, Thomas, McKinney, etc.) have to get paid too.
This year, however, he really struggled.
I thought perhaps he found it after a dazzling performance last Monday against Tampa. But today the bad turnovers cost Dallas at least a chip shot FG attempt and the other led to a San Fran FG.
Quote:
In comment 16009589 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
And how are you building this really good team if Jones is eating up 18-20% of the cap? Other players (Lawrence, Thomas, McKinney, etc.) have to get paid too.
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
Start Taylor and use the 35 million to upgrade the roster?
The 49'r are about to answer that question.
I'm leaning more to upgrading the roster. Jones is good but I don't think he is elite.
Quote:
In comment 16009595 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16009589 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
My mistake, I misinterpreted your post. We both agree on this.
The QB contracts are out of control. I honestly don't know how the NFL is going to fix this problem.
I was out watching the Cowboys/49ers game and was talking with a Vikings fan. Their best player is on a rookie contract, their defense is absolute dogshit, and they are $23M over the cap heading into the offseason.
There has to be a breaking point coming. At some point the best solution is to just draft a QB almost every year while keeping a strong overall roster until you hit on an elite guy.
Which, of course, you don’t have to nor did anyone say they need to. But, by all means, continue to believe you’re making a valid point.
A guy like Dak (or other guys you can call average) are paid $35-40 million/year.
This model has proven to be unsuccessful. Only a very few are paid that much and can still carry their team. Arguably, only Mahomes has proven that lately?
Burrow is still on his rookie deal. Josh Allen still has to prove he can do it.
So, the Giants will (or threaten) to tag Jones and hope to work out a deal they can build around.
I guess with another year of trimming the fat,
Schoen should be able to get appreciably more talent -
even while paying Jones
If this staff has proven anything. It has proven they can get the most of the talent they have.
Jones top 10? I'll need to see another year before I give him that. I'll take him over Dak though.
Quote:
In comment 16009595 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16009589 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
And how are you building this really good team if Jones is eating up 18-20% of the cap? Other players (Lawrence, Thomas, McKinney, etc.) have to get paid too.
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
Think it’s time to stop talking about Herbert like he’s Jesus. The guy went multiple games to end the season without throwing a td or throwing 1 td a game and absolutely folded Ala Matt Ryan with the game in hand in the playoffs. He has work to do
Russell Wilson $245,000,000 $49,000,000
Kyler Murray $230,500,000 $46,100,000
Deshaun Watson $230,000,000 $46,000,000
Patrick Mahomes $450,000,000 $45,000,000
Josh Allen $258,000,000 $43,000,000
Derek Carr $121,422,481 $40,474,160
Matt Stafford $160,000,000 $40,000,000
Dak Prescott $160,000,000 $40,000,000
Kirk Cousins $35,000,000 $35,000,000
Jared Goff $134,000,000 $33,500,000
Carson Wentz $128,000,000 $32,000,000
Matt Ryan $150,000,000 $30,000,000
Ryan Tannehill $118,000,000 $29,500,000
Tom Brady $25,000,000 $25,000,000
Take your time.
Russell Wilson $245,000,000 $49,000,000
Kyler Murray $230,500,000 $46,100,000
Deshaun Watson $230,000,000 $46,000,000
Patrick Mahomes $450,000,000 $45,000,000
Josh Allen $258,000,000 $43,000,000
Derek Carr $121,422,481 $40,474,160
Matt Stafford $160,000,000 $40,000,000
Dak Prescott $160,000,000 $40,000,000
Kirk Cousins $35,000,000 $35,000,000
Jared Goff $134,000,000 $33,500,000
Carson Wentz $128,000,000 $32,000,000
Matt Ryan $150,000,000 $30,000,000
Ryan Tannehill $118,000,000 $29,500,000
Tom Brady $25,000,000 $25,000,000
Burrow will be near, or at the top of that list in short order.
Quote:
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
Name some franchise QBs who could have done better with team than Jones.
Take your time.
It is a useless exercise. You will just disagree with his list. Everyone is dug in on their position here. Let me just ask you this. How much are you willing to give Jones?
Do you think the Titans, Vikings, Raiders, Commanders, etc. are happy they paid their QBs? It is very possible that all of those teams make a change this offseason.
Quote:
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
Name some franchise QBs who could have done better with team than Jones.
Take your time.
^ he’s right
Quote:
so who cares. I want a real franchise QB. Not a guy you have to put a perfect team around.
In my opinion, eliminating Brady and Rodgers because they will retire, I consider there to be only 4 true "Franchise" QBs. Then there are a group of 10 or so that you can win with if the surrounding team is good, then there are the rest. If you keep rolling through QBs looking for one of the 4, you may never find it and always suck. Most teams stop looking once they get one in the next tier down, and build a really good team around them.
Hell nah
Quote:
In comment 16009600 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009595 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16009589 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
I''m not really sure what you are getting at here, but if its paying Jones $40M+ like Dak then I am not supportive of that. No way, only Burrows/Mahomes/Allen/Herbert for me at the price range.
My mistake, I misinterpreted your post. We both agree on this.
The QB contracts are out of control. I honestly don't know how the NFL is going to fix this problem.
I was out watching the Cowboys/49ers game and was talking with a Vikings fan. Their best player is on a rookie contract, their defense is absolute dogshit, and they are $23M over the cap heading into the offseason.
There has to be a breaking point coming. At some point the best solution is to just draft a QB almost every year while keeping a strong overall roster until you hit on an elite guy.
Might be a bit out of left field and owners probably wouldn’t go for it but how about each team gets to designate one player’s salary being exempt from the cap?
(FWIW, I said after the Tampa game that Dak's numbers were good only because he was playing against a no show defense)
With Jones, the Giants should know what they have. We the fans really do not. We change game to game as per how Jones did the week previously.
I was for the 4-5 year deal in the mid $30's range. I still am, but is Jones another Dak? Good but not good enough? I would be for the Tag, but the Giants would then be just kicking the can down the road each year. I think it is time to shit or get off the pot. Only Daboll and Schoen really know what Jones can do. Pay him, or let him walk...
+1
Russell Wilson $245,000,000 $49,000,000
Kyler Murray $230,500,000 $46,100,000
Deshaun Watson $230,000,000 $46,000,000
Patrick Mahomes $450,000,000 $45,000,000
Josh Allen $258,000,000 $43,000,000
Derek Carr $121,422,481 $40,474,160
Matt Stafford $160,000,000 $40,000,000
Dak Prescott $160,000,000 $40,000,000
Kirk Cousins $35,000,000 $35,000,000
Jared Goff $134,000,000 $33,500,000
Carson Wentz $128,000,000 $32,000,000
Matt Ryan $150,000,000 $30,000,000
Ryan Tannehill $118,000,000 $29,500,000
Tom Brady $25,000,000 $25,000,000
Denver, AZ, and Cleveland are so screwed
Agreed but the problem with this board and the fan base is after playing the Colts and Vikings they want to pay Jones top dollar. In reality, his pay is somewhere between the Vikings game and Eagles game. There's even a comment on this thread about Dak playing well against a subpar Tampa D but no one would say the same about Jones last week. Vikings D was the 30th ranked D in the league. Lets try to see the whole picture and not just focus on his 2 best performances.
I think locking him up for 3 years is ideal for 27-31m a year. I'll be upset if its 35-40m a year b/c the concern is filling out the roster and it will be harder with 40m committed to Jones. I do not think he is worth that money. Good thing for management, my opinion doesn't matter.
Start Taylor and use the 35 million to upgrade the roster?
The 49'r are about to answer that question.
I'm leaning more to upgrading the roster. Jones is good but I don't think he is elite.
AT $35MM I take DJ. At $40 not so much. Those top level guys cost $50, not $40. I think Burrows gets extended this year and we need to get DJ done before that if we are going to extend him. Burrows is going to get more than Mahomes.
On the other hand if we don't sign DJ for $35MM we can get a new Kenny golladay and a new Nate Solder both.
I'll take neither...but if I had to choose, Dak all day. DJ would do absolutely nothing against the 49ers D, like he did against the Eagles.
wow $33M doesn't buy what it used to.