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Seeing elite tight ends is really frustrating.

Blackmax00 : 1/22/2023 10:52 pm
I know there are a few kittles and kelces in the world. But when are we going to get one? I know its not a top need but even seeing Evan Engram ball out on another team sucks.
I doubt  
Mook80 : 1/22/2023 10:54 pm : link
Mayer makes it within striking distance of our pick but if he does I'd trade up. Would be shocked to see him get near 20 though
RE: I doubt  
jnoble : 1/22/2023 10:55 pm : link
In comment 16009598 Mook80 said:
Quote:
Mayer makes it within striking distance of our pick but if he does I'd trade up. Would be shocked to see him get near 20 though


We have much more important needs to fill there's absolutely no way we take a TE in the first round
Wasn't Kittle a late round pick?  
FStubbs : 1/22/2023 11:00 pm : link
We spent a 1st rounder on Engram in the same draft, how did that work out?

We have a functioning TE in Bellinger and can find another one to throw different looks at a team. Let's get stronger in the trenches and maybe get a LB that can cover TEs better, those are bigger problems.
if they valued TE significantly they prob do the hockenson trade  
Eric on Li : 1/22/2023 11:01 pm : link
he's maybe not elite but he's close to that level and he was available pretty cheaply.

elite te's are fun to watch but there are very few of them and for whatever reason almost never the TEs who get picked in the first round.
We need an impact receiver  
weeg in the bronx : 1/22/2023 11:01 pm : link
I don't care if it's TE or WR
TEs  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/22/2023 11:02 pm : link
In the first round are luxury picks for well established teams. We need to build the D-Line and add a corner.
Can't be understated  
Breeze_94 : 1/22/2023 11:04 pm : link
the impact that having a reliable target over the middle has for a QB.

Kincaid is a guy that I'm really high on. Even over Mayer. I think he'll be the most impactful weapon in the passing game at the next level.
RE: Wasn't Kittle a late round pick?  
black aces : 1/22/2023 11:23 pm : link
In comment 16009603 FStubbs said:
Quote:
We spent a 1st rounder on Engram in the same draft, how did that work out?

We have a functioning TE in Bellinger and can find another one to throw different looks at a team. Let's get stronger in the trenches and maybe get a LB that can cover TEs better, those are bigger problems.


Yes, Kittle was a 5th rounder
RE: RE: I doubt  
Mook80 : 1/22/2023 11:29 pm : link
In comment 16009599 jnoble said:
Quote:
In comment 16009598 Mook80 said:


Quote:


Mayer makes it within striking distance of our pick but if he does I'd trade up. Would be shocked to see him get near 20 though



We have much more important needs to fill there's absolutely no way we take a TE in the first round


A stud tight end is incredibly valuable. Kittle and Kelce are the best offensive weapons on their teams. We need guys who can catch the football and Mayer will be a great TE in the pros.

We're not going to be able to get him because he will be long gone but he's going to be a terrific tight end for a long time
Seeing elite WRs  
BillT : 1/22/2023 11:33 pm : link
Is equally as frustrating. It called playing with third stringers.
poor Daniel Bellinger  
blueblood : 1/22/2023 11:34 pm : link
almost loses an eye for the team and already they ready to not even give u a chance to develop
RE: RE: Wasn't Kittle a late round pick?  
JoeSchoens11 : 1/22/2023 11:46 pm : link
In comment 16009619 black aces said:
Quote:
In comment 16009603 FStubbs said:


Quote:


We spent a 1st rounder on Engram in the same draft, how did that work out?

We have a functioning TE in Bellinger and can find another one to throw different looks at a team. Let's get stronger in the trenches and maybe get a LB that can cover TEs better, those are bigger problems.



Yes, Kittle was a 5th rounder
The real kicker IIRC is how many BBIers would mock Kittle to us in rounds 3-5

I don’t want to torture myself in thinking what would’ve been if we skipped Engram and came away with Watt AND Kittle instead.
Tight  
Straw Hat : 1/22/2023 11:49 pm : link
End is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to the pros. You rarely see a rookie te breakout. Bellinger did very well for a rookie!

2017 kittle - 43 rec 515 yards 2 tds (15 games)
2022 bellinger - 30 rec 268 yards 2 tds (12 games)
there is only 5-10 TE's in this league that are of that caliber.  
Rory : 1/23/2023 12:22 am : link
so lets not act like everyone got a toy and the Giants missed their chance
not sure if anyone else feels the same but  
Rory : 1/23/2023 12:24 am : link
I'd like to see what Lawrence Cager can do after a full offseason and training camp.

He and Bellinger could be major factors next year.
If we can’t significantly improve WR.  
Giant John : 1/23/2023 1:23 am : link
Then tight end may be the only alternative. See how things shake out.
RE: poor Daniel Bellinger  
Joey in VA : 1/23/2023 1:38 am : link
In comment 16009630 blueblood said:
Quote:
almost loses an eye for the team and already they ready to not even give u a chance to develop
yep. He's got plenty of ability and he is a rookie who flashed. I have high expectations for him
RE: poor Daniel Bellinger  
Big Blue '56 : 1/23/2023 6:01 am : link
In comment 16009630 blueblood said:
Quote:
almost loses an eye for the team and already they ready to not even give u a chance to develop


Amazing, isn’t it?
What was the hype  
kcgiants : 1/23/2023 7:53 am : link
on Evan Engram for Gettleman to pick him besides that Gettleman can't draft? I'm still wondering.
RE: What was the hype  
Angel Eyes : 1/23/2023 8:01 am : link
In comment 16009754 kcgiants said:
Quote:
on Evan Engram for Gettleman to pick him besides that Gettleman can't draft? I'm still wondering.

Wasn't Engram drafted in 2017 before Gettleman became GM?
RE: What was the hype  
John In CO : 1/23/2023 9:18 am : link
In comment 16009754 kcgiants said:
Quote:
on Evan Engram for Gettleman to pick him besides that Gettleman can't draft? I'm still wondering.


You make it sound like the guy should have been a 5th rounder that we elevated all the way up to round 1. As I recall, TE was a "Need" and the discussion was centered on OJ Howard, David Njoku and Evan Engram. Howard was drafted. Then it was down to Engram or Njoku. They took Engram because he offered a bit more as a receiver while obviously much less as a blocker. And despite what many of the great football minds here like to think, while he wasnt what we hoped he would be, he was far from a 1st round bust!
Eh  
cosmicj : 1/23/2023 9:20 am : link
There are several excellent TEs who packed their bags for the offseason after week 17.
RE: Tight  
UConn4523 : 1/23/2023 9:25 am : link
In comment 16009638 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
End is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to the pros. You rarely see a rookie te breakout. Bellinger did very well for a rookie!

2017 kittle - 43 rec 515 yards 2 tds (15 games)
2022 bellinger - 30 rec 268 yards 2 tds (12 games)


The problem is Kittles YAC, as you can see in those stats and watching the game, are massive differences. Bellinger will never be that, which is fine, but definitely notable.
RE: if they valued TE significantly they prob do the hockenson trade  
DefenseWins : 1/23/2023 9:29 am : link
In comment 16009604 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he's maybe not elite but he's close to that level and he was available pretty cheaply.

elite te's are fun to watch but there are very few of them and for whatever reason almost never the TEs who get picked in the first round.


OR.. they valued the draft picks they would have to part with more than the value of Hockenson
RE: RE: What was the hype  
kcgiants : 1/23/2023 10:08 am : link
In comment 16009881 John In CO said:
Quote:
In comment 16009754 kcgiants said:


Quote:


on Evan Engram for Gettleman to pick him besides that Gettleman can't draft? I'm still wondering.



You make it sound like the guy should have been a 5th rounder that we elevated all the way up to round 1. As I recall, TE was a "Need" and the discussion was centered on OJ Howard, David Njoku and Evan Engram. Howard was drafted. Then it was down to Engram or Njoku. They took Engram because he offered a bit more as a receiver while obviously much less as a blocker. And despite what many of the great football minds here like to think, while he wasnt what we hoped he would be, he was far from a 1st round bust!

I wasn't implying where Engram should have been drafted. I truly didn't recall why the Giants Drafted him. I was just wondering why we used our 1st round pick on him since we needed so much on the OL. This is truly an innocent question.
Not every coach thinks of TEs the same way  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 10:16 am : link
Who was Josh Allen's TE under Daboll in Buffalo? Wasn't a tremendous part of the plan. They did prioritize a big time WR though.


I think Mayer is going to go nuts in the NFL  
Metnut : 1/23/2023 10:46 am : link
He’s played for one of the first offensive coordinators in college football and still produced big time. If he lands somewhere with competent coaching, look out.
RE: RE: if they valued TE significantly they prob do the hockenson trade  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 10:48 am : link
In comment 16009908 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 16009604 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he's maybe not elite but he's close to that level and he was available pretty cheaply.

elite te's are fun to watch but there are very few of them and for whatever reason almost never the TEs who get picked in the first round.



OR.. they valued the draft picks they would have to part with more than the value of Hockenson


the hockenson trade was draft pick neutral. the vikings didnt lose any picks, they slid back about 40-50 spots from 90 to 130 i think.
...  
christian : 1/23/2023 10:58 am : link
A lot of the stacks and drags to scheme targets open come directly from the Reid playbook. The last quarter of the season looked a lot like KC play design wise.

Kelce is so damn versatile. KC can come out in 12 personnel and change into a 3-wide set if the match-up calls for it. Kelce can go to the slot or the stack and run all the routes.

They use Kelce and their speed at WR to toy with defenses. If what we saw is the offense, don't discount a big swing a TE.
Kyle Pitts has transformed the Falcons,  
cosmicj : 1/23/2023 11:05 am : link
hasn’t he?
Bellinger is a keeper and looks like an NFL  
Simms11 : 1/23/2023 11:44 am : link
TE. He’s the starter and so you’re now looking at depth and a guy that MAY get 1 or 2 balls thrown his way in any given game. It’d be a luxury to have two very good TEs, but we can get a guy, for depth later in the draft. That’s a position that you can fill later on. As others have mentioned, we NEED to solidify the trenches on this team first and foremost. You build from the inside out. We can’t win in our Division because the trenches are, and have been, our biggest issue. If we want to compete for a Division Title and playoffs, we have to win our Division games and in order to do so we have to build up the trenches!
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/23/2023 11:46 am : link
In comment 16010086 christian said:
Quote:
A lot of the stacks and drags to scheme targets open come directly from the Reid playbook. The last quarter of the season looked a lot like KC play design wise.

Kelce is so damn versatile. KC can come out in 12 personnel and change into a 3-wide set if the match-up calls for it. Kelce can go to the slot or the stack and run all the routes.

They use Kelce and their speed at WR to toy with defenses. If what we saw is the offense, don't discount a big swing a TE.


14 catches for 98 yards, 7 YPC..Gonzalez you to average way more than that, no?
Many more examples I’m sure,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/23/2023 11:54 am : link
but even Bavarro averaged 13.5 ypc..
...  
christian : 1/23/2023 12:09 pm : link
Kelce is a career 12.7 YPC and 8.8 YPT pass catcher and routinely gets thrown to 120+ times a year.

He averaged more yards per target than CC Lamb and Devontae Adams this year, on 150+ targets.

He has very competitive production vs. some of the volume WRs in the NFL.

RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/23/2023 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16010225 christian said:
Quote:
Kelce is a career 12.7 YPC and 8.8 YPT pass catcher and routinely gets thrown to 120+ times a year.

He averaged more yards per target than CC Lamb and Devontae Adams this year, on 150+ targets.

He has very competitive production vs. some of the volume WRs in the NFL.


Ok, gotcha..It’s just that it was lauded as a great game by him. They emphasized the 14 catches (2tds) and failed to mention for just 98 yards
RE: RE: RE: What was the hype  
John In CO : 1/23/2023 2:50 pm : link
In comment 16010006 kcgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16009881 John In CO said:


Quote:


In comment 16009754 kcgiants said:


Quote:


on Evan Engram for Gettleman to pick him besides that Gettleman can't draft? I'm still wondering.



You make it sound like the guy should have been a 5th rounder that we elevated all the way up to round 1. As I recall, TE was a "Need" and the discussion was centered on OJ Howard, David Njoku and Evan Engram. Howard was drafted. Then it was down to Engram or Njoku. They took Engram because he offered a bit more as a receiver while obviously much less as a blocker. And despite what many of the great football minds here like to think, while he wasnt what we hoped he would be, he was far from a 1st round bust!


I wasn't implying where Engram should have been drafted. I truly didn't recall why the Giants Drafted him. I was just wondering why we used our 1st round pick on him since we needed so much on the OL. This is truly an innocent question.


Because our TE's at the time were Larry Donnell and Will Tye. Translation: it was a position of need and they thought Engram could fulfill that need. Did it work out. Not really. But I didnt really question the move at the time. The OL was a need as well, as it has been every year since forever, but I was never head over heels in love with Ramczyk like so many were. In hindsight, yes, OL would have been the way to go. But my point in there were reasons for the Engram selection.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 1/23/2023 3:10 pm : link
In comment 16010249 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010225 christian said:


Quote:


Kelce is a career 12.7 YPC and 8.8 YPT pass catcher and routinely gets thrown to 120+ times a year.

He averaged more yards per target than CC Lamb and Devontae Adams this year, on 150+ targets.

He has very competitive production vs. some of the volume WRs in the NFL.




Ok, gotcha..It’s just that it was lauded as a great game by him. They emphasized the 14 catches (2tds) and failed to mention for just 98 yards


Yeah, it was a high volume low yardage game for sure.
Kittle is one of the best players in football  
djm : 1/23/2023 3:20 pm : link
that might be my #1 pick on offense if I had to pick a guy right now. Excluding QBs.
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