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Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll Press Conference

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 8:35 am


Monday, January 23, 2023

Approx. 12:00 p.m. — General Manager Joe Schoen and Head Coach Brian Daboll Available

It's "read between the lines" time of the year  
Dnew15 : 1/23/2023 8:42 am : link
The players had their crack at it first...now the coach and GM have their shot at it.
Joe Schoen time now  
Rick in Dallas : 1/23/2023 8:47 am : link
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
what's the over/under  
Ron Johnson : 1/23/2023 8:56 am : link
on "smart-tough-dependable" today?
RE: Joe Schoen time now  
ColHowPepper : 1/23/2023 8:58 am : link
In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.

Attaboy, Joe, just what I want to hear
It will  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 9:01 am : link
be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.
We'll see...  
Dnew15 : 1/23/2023 9:02 am : link
I was surprised how candid many of the players were in discussing their status moving forward in the locker room the other day.
I am really looking forward  
jvm52106 : 1/23/2023 9:12 am : link
to this off season. The regular season was much better than we all expected (though I did predict 8-9, so I was pretty happy there) and now an off season that is truly about building upon not building from the ground..

I think the Giants make one trade this winter/spring for a WR.. Diggs was a great trade for Buffalo as they got him realitively cheaply and I think the Giants could look to do the same. Keep an eye on Gabriel Davis in Buffalo.
Excited to see what they do  
46and2Blue : 1/23/2023 9:26 am : link
They have some money and some base pieces. LW will be an interesting, situation. says he wants to play with dex, but I don't see him giving up his 32 mil.
RE: It will  
christian : 1/23/2023 9:33 am : link
In comment 16009840 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.


It was certainly a moment of transparency, but if you simply looked at the draft pool, the roster count, and the cap deficit — a number of BBIers guessed the Giants needed to clear around that much before Schoen said it.
Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
aimrocky : 1/23/2023 9:33 am : link
Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.
RE: It will  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/23/2023 9:34 am : link
In comment 16009840 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.
I don't know if that was a mistake. It set expectations for ownership and the fan base to explain some of what was done.
RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
Sammo85 : 1/23/2023 9:40 am : link
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:
Quote:
Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.


As a unit they looked off. McKinney had a bad game. He got turned inside out by Goedert on his early TD.
RE: Excited to see what they do  
islander1 : 1/23/2023 9:40 am : link
In comment 16009902 46and2Blue said:
Quote:
They have some money and some base pieces. LW will be an interesting, situation. says he wants to play with dex, but I don't see him giving up his 32 mil.


Yeah, meanwhile, man I can't see paying him 32 million dollars. I saw his dead cap hit is 20 million, so it's brutal either way. Thanks, Dave. The 'gift' that keeps giving.

RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
Chris684 : 1/23/2023 9:44 am : link
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:
Quote:
Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.


That’s interesting. I didn’t notice anything earlier in the game but my hunch is that Daboll had a problem with the last few Philly scores. He didn’t mix words when calling Saturday night a “crash landing”. I know I saw Ward pretty much playing paddy cake late in the 4th in one of Gainwell’s long runs. I have a feeling Daboll didn’t think that score should have gotten up to 38.
RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2023 9:54 am : link
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:
Quote:
Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.


Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying
He didn't point to any specific plays  
aimrocky : 1/23/2023 9:56 am : link
other than the long Gainwell runs late, but said that some defenders were having issues getting off their blocks, then also pointed to the missed tackles by Julian Love being shoulder shots and not wrapping up.
RE: RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
Costy16 : 1/23/2023 9:58 am : link
In comment 16009969 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:


Quote:


Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.



Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying


Tackling was an issue Saturday. To me, that falls on effort.
I’m not saying anything about effort  
Chris684 : 1/23/2023 9:59 am : link
but Love and McKinney had their worst games of the year it seemed.
RE: RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 10:00 am : link
In comment 16009969 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:


Quote:


Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.



Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying


This is the kind of stuff I dont like.

More questions than anything else. You're telling me Bisignano was in the same spot with Schoen? And Schoen was sitting behind him but Bisignano could tell he was visibly upset?
For an attacking defense  
jvm52106 : 1/23/2023 10:00 am : link
which our DC is known for, we do have a lot of bad tacklers and less than tone setting players. Our ILB's specifically are more gatherers and take down guys than enforcers. Our safeties are good but not great and our CB's are a bit light in physicality and some, low in ability.

The Giants need WR, CB and ILB as our biggest priorities (assuming we bring back Jones and Barkley).

Resigning Jones  
Costy16 : 1/23/2023 10:01 am : link
Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?
RE: It will  
Optimus-NY : 1/23/2023 10:02 am : link
In comment 16009840 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.


Great point Eric. He's had a year to adjust to things. He'd better improve in that regard.
Was that really a mistake though?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 10:05 am : link
The cap situation is not a state secret.
RE: It will  
eli4life : 1/23/2023 10:08 am : link
In comment 16009840 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.


I don’t think it was a bad move last year. I think it was more of a this place is a mess and I was brought here to clean it up so if we really sucked this year he was out in front of it.

Also an aspect that imo doesn’t really get thought about is the relationship between the players and coaches/management isn’t the only one that’s taken a beating. The one between the team (again management/coaches) and the fans and this could be his way of saying he was brought in to fix this and he knows we’ve been bad for awhile and he has some tough decisions that people won’t like or understand and we might have to take a step back to move forward. I know I’m the grand scheme of things that’s down the totem pole but as much of a goof Mara can be I truly believe he really does care about his fans and people in general
Daboll shouldn’t call out players  
Rudy5757 : 1/23/2023 10:09 am : link
Specifically since I think he had a bad game himself. Going for it on 4th down early and then not going for it on 4th down with 12 mins left down 3 scores. You have barely enough time to get 3 TDs at 12 mins and really little chance with less.

The team threw up a stinker all around from coaching to players. Barkley was under used, the D was god awful, Jones didn’t play well and the Wrs were over matched. Not a lot to take out of this game.
I think some people are going to be surprised by some of the moves  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/23/2023 10:13 am : link
made this offseason. It seems clear Schoen / Daboll have a plan, and we have no idea whether that plan is a complete rebuild, or just building on what we have. If all the decisions they make were easy then anyone could be a GM.

This admin just took a bunch of underachievers and guys off the street and won a playoff game. They've got the benefit of the doubt from me.
RE: Joe Schoen time now  
ZoneXDOA : 1/23/2023 10:17 am : link
In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
I really hope Schoen and Dabs are reading this! Otherwise, They'd have to actually be good at what they do... /sarcasm off
RE: Resigning Jones  
HomerJones45 : 1/23/2023 10:27 am : link
In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:
Quote:
Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?
Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.
RE: RE: RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
blueblood : 1/23/2023 10:35 am : link
In comment 16009986 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16009969 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:


Quote:


Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.



Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying



This is the kind of stuff I dont like.

More questions than anything else. You're telling me Bisignano was in the same spot with Schoen? And Schoen was sitting behind him but Bisignano could tell he was visibly upset?


He didnt say that Schoen was DIRECTLY behind him. Schoen could have easily been in the same area, seated a row or two behind on the side and you could EASILY turn your head peak over your shoulder and see his reactions.. not really hard to fathom.

Im sitting at my desk right now and I can see my coworker who is 3ft behind me to the left perfectly fine just by looking over my shoulder with my peripheral vision.
RE: RE: It will  
blueblood : 1/23/2023 10:37 am : link
In comment 16010007 eli4life said:
Quote:
In comment 16009840 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.



I don’t think it was a bad move last year. I think it was more of a this place is a mess and I was brought here to clean it up so if we really sucked this year he was out in front of it.

Also an aspect that imo doesn’t really get thought about is the relationship between the players and coaches/management isn’t the only one that’s taken a beating. The one between the team (again management/coaches) and the fans and this could be his way of saying he was brought in to fix this and he knows we’ve been bad for awhile and he has some tough decisions that people won’t like or understand and we might have to take a step back to move forward. I know I’m the grand scheme of things that’s down the totem pole but as much of a goof Mara can be I truly believe he really does care about his fans and people in general


Everyone on the planet including us bubbleheads on BBI could how cap strapped the Giants were. It was no " state secret " making a statement about how much cap they needed to clear.
...  
christian : 1/23/2023 10:40 am : link
I won't be surprised if the Giants make a major change in direction, whether it's trading a high profile player or not retaining a high profile player.

I can imagine Schoen looking at where his team his vs. where the Eagles are for instance, and coming to two conclusions:

1) We're not there yet
2) It's going to take 2 more off seasons to get there
Lack of Effort  
Lambuth_Special : 1/23/2023 10:41 am : link
Frankly I wouldn't assume anyone from the team 'quit,' but that they were probably physically and emotionally spent.

A lot of these guys just experienced their first winning season, and had been on basically a two-month stretch of 'must-win' games going back to the first Washington game. I think they got over-hyped on their win against the Vikings - and combined with their other recent wins - rode that high a little too much and lacked the type of grounded intensity you'd need to compete with a team like the Eagles.

Maybe you could say that Daboll needed to reign them in, but he's going through the first-time experience as well.
RE: RE: Resigning Jones  
Simms11 : 1/23/2023 10:42 am : link
In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:


Quote:


Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?

Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.


Brock Purdy! It’s rare to get a guy in the 6th or 7Th round and have him become a quality starter though. It can happen with some good scouting and good development, but it’s rare.
RE: ...  
cjac : 1/23/2023 10:44 am : link
In comment 16010059 christian said:
Quote:
I won't be surprised if the Giants make a major change in direction, whether it's trading a high profile player or not retaining a high profile player.

I can imagine Schoen looking at where his team his vs. where the Eagles are for instance, and coming to two conclusions:

1) We're not there yet
2) It's going to take 2 more off seasons to get there



It might have been a good thing that we got thumped the other day, if it was a close game they might have been fooled that we're closer than we really are.
Look.. the talent gap between the 2 teams is huge  
Rick in Dallas : 1/23/2023 10:46 am : link
Per se I don’t think they quit until the last drive when the effort was not 100%.
They looked beaten on that last drive.
Schoen realizes that the talent gap is significant
...  
christian : 1/23/2023 10:48 am : link
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
Johnson made a comment regarding the effort  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/23/2023 10:53 am : link
near the end of the game.

Here is where the Giants stood heading into the game and including it. Four of the last five games were played on the road. This one was played on 6 days rest against a team with two weeks off.

I felt it was important to keep it close in the first. When that did not happen I think it just took a lot of of them imv. Momentum is important in this game especially on a team that had to battle down the stretch against a team with two weeks prep and rest.
RE: RE: RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
ZoneXDOA : 1/23/2023 11:00 am : link
In comment 16009982 Costy16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009969 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:


Quote:


Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.



Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying



Tackling was an issue Saturday. To me, that falls on effort.
Tackling issues are usually due to technique and awareness, if they are making the effort to get there, it is silly to think they are "all out of effort" when making the tackle. Overall, the team came out flat and my feelings on why/how boil down to the team getting over-pumped. They were likely so caught up in trying to be perfect that the opposite occurred. You can't get too much in your own head, just use the instinct and the passion that you played with all season. This game felt off in all areas.
The tacking was atrocious  
blueblood : 1/23/2023 11:12 am : link
I suspect some of it was from trying to hit guys hard and knock balls loose to try and create a fumble. Philly is simply a much better team right now.
RE: RE: Resigning Jones  
PatersonPlank : 1/23/2023 11:15 am : link
In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:


Quote:


Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?

Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.


Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still

Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).
RE: RE: Resigning Jones  
k2tampa : 1/23/2023 11:29 am : link
In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:


Quote:


Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?

Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.


And, most importantly, you have to get extremely lucky. Every team passed on Prescott three times. If Dallas knew he could be their franchise guy, why didn't they take him in the third, or second, or first? Because they didn't think he was going to be their franchise guy. They were hoping he could be a solid piece. How many teams scouted Brady and passed on him 5 times? It's not an exact science.
RE: RE: RE: Resigning Jones  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/23/2023 11:32 am : link
In comment 16010119 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:


Quote:


Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?

Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.



Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still

Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).



I feel like the plan is to get a guy who has all the physical tools and coach him up. This is what they did with Allen, who was criticized as a reach when he was picked because he played at a small school and was inaccurate. I don't think its a coincidence Allen has seemed to regress this year with Daboll gone.

Don't be surprised if they move up slightly to take a raw QB with size and wheels who they can coach in their system.
I am not saying this in hindsight, but when your D is based on  
GiantBlue : 1/23/2023 11:46 am : link
trickery, weird blitzes and you are playing an offense that is diverse talented and plain nasty; you don't defer the opening kick-off.

He did it in Minnesota (and we recovered to take back the momentum) and again in Philly. The Eagles offense set the tone and we were back on our heels almost the whole game like the SB vs. Baltimore.

Take the ball to start and run Barkley three times. It sets the OL and let's the team settle into the game.

That was a huge mistake by Daboll IMHO.
Is Mara going to speak?  
Sean : 1/23/2023 11:48 am : link
I prefer he didn’t. I’d rather him not say anything regarding these huge decisions Schoen & Daboll need to make.
WHERE CAN WE LISTEN?  
GiantsAlwaysAndForever : 1/23/2023 11:53 am : link
Does anyone know where we can listen to this live?? Thank you so much in advance.
RE: I am not saying this in hindsight, but when your D is based on  
Chris684 : 1/23/2023 11:53 am : link
In comment 16010173 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
trickery, weird blitzes and you are playing an offense that is diverse talented and plain nasty; you don't defer the opening kick-off.

He did it in Minnesota (and we recovered to take back the momentum) and again in Philly. The Eagles offense set the tone and we were back on our heels almost the whole game like the SB vs. Baltimore.

Take the ball to start and run Barkley three times. It sets the OL and let's the team settle into the game.

That was a huge mistake by Daboll IMHO.


I totally agree.
RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
BigBlueShock : 1/23/2023 11:54 am : link
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:
Quote:
Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.

I didn’t really notice Jackson but Love stood out to me on several occasions. There were tackles to be made with him in position and he either missed or didn’t really give much an effort. Love is a valuable player, he’s versatile and apparently a good leader in the Coker room but he’s not the most physical player. That play in the first Philly game where he had a chance to put a hit on Devonte Smith and completely whiffed and allowed an easy touchdown on 4th and long still irks me. The Giants lack physicality from the safety position. It’s the most overrated position group on the team, imo.
RE: WHERE CAN WE LISTEN?  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/23/2023 11:55 am : link
In comment 16010190 GiantsAlwaysAndForever said:
Quote:
Does anyone know where we can listen to this live?? Thank you so much in advance.
On front page of Giants.Com
Giants.com - ( New Window )
RE: Joe Schoen time now  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:00 pm : link
In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.


So you're telling me right now if NEal develops into a solid starter and we add one very good center or guard in FA and do the same on defense, let's say add a very good LB. Then we draft a WR in round 1 or 2---that team isn't a lot better next season?

We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.

BUILD this team up around the stars we already possess. Why the hell are we going to move guys out thqat we know can play and are under 26 year old? So we can try and find those guys all over again? Why?

Even if Jones has a ceiling, he can play. Worry about that ceiling when the time comes 3-4 years from now. LEt's sustain some winning first and knock on the door more than once. Build around Jones and Barkley. Help them get better as much as they helped the Giants win this season despite little to no help other than Thomas.
RE: For an attacking defense  
Payasdaddy : 1/23/2023 12:01 pm : link
In comment 16009988 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
which our DC is known for, we do have a lot of bad tacklers and less than tone setting players. Our ILB's specifically are more gatherers and take down guys than enforcers. Our safeties are good but not great and our CB's are a bit light in physicality and some, low in ability.

The Giants need WR, CB and ILB as our biggest priorities (assuming we bring back Jones and Barkley).

Throw in dline and oline. Would be surprised if we don’t pick one of each over first 5 rds. Hopefully Marcus M , beavers and DJ Davidson all recover too
It will be like 3 more draft picks since Davidson was the only one on the field a little
RE: RE: It will  
Gruber : 1/23/2023 12:01 pm : link
In comment 16009991 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16009840 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.



Great point Eric. He's had a year to adjust to things. He'd better improve in that regard.


Total bollocks. Both of you.
RE: ...  
Payasdaddy : 1/23/2023 12:03 pm : link
In comment 16010059 christian said:
Quote:
I won't be surprised if the Giants make a major change in direction, whether it's trading a high profile player or not retaining a high profile player.

I can imagine Schoen looking at where his team his vs. where the Eagles are for instance, and coming to two conclusions:

1) We're not there yet
2) It's going to take 2 more off seasons to get there

In agreement for 2 more drafts. I figure around 8-10 solid contributors short.
That doesn’t happen in one draft
It’s how u build long term contenders. The difference between hitting on3 draft
picks vs 5 draft picks every yr is huge in the long term.
everyone can do math  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 12:05 pm : link
teams salary cap situations are publicly reported every day. schoen's comment last year was obvious. that was the minimum they needed just to fill the roster.

i hope he remains just as candid as he did last year, it was refreshing. comments he makes dont matter nearly as much as the realities of situations he deals with.
RE: ...  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:07 pm : link
In comment 16010071 christian said:
Quote:
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.


This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
RE: RE: Joe Schoen time now  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 12:07 pm : link
In comment 16010207 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:


Quote:


Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.




We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.

.


There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?

It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.

I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.

What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
great line/delivery by schoen about williams commenting on the paycut  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 12:07 pm : link
he is really a breathe of fresh air. i didnt agree with every decision he's made but he is a really good communicator.
RE: Joe Schoen time now  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:09 pm : link
In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.


Also, you might want to clarify that this was your take and not Schoen's take. I can't imagine the GM just said that but I think some here think that is the case.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/23/2023 12:12 pm : link
everyone is searching for a soundbite. not one specific, detailed question so far that would actually get a good answer.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Resigning Jones  
k2tampa : 1/23/2023 12:12 pm : link
In comment 16010140 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
In comment 16010119 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:


Quote:


Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?

Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.



Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still

Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).




I feel like the plan is to get a guy who has all the physical tools and coach him up. This is what they did with Allen, who was criticized as a reach when he was picked because he played at a small school and was inaccurate. I don't think its a coincidence Allen has seemed to regress this year with Daboll gone.

Don't be surprised if they move up slightly to take a raw QB with size and wheels who they can coach in their system.


Yeah, and that guy went at No. 7. Hardly a "take a chance on coaching him up" pick. Without the "accuracy issues", he would have gone no. 1. PFF said in their review after the draft Allen was an elite signal caller. And they gave the Bills an A+ grade and said it would have been A+ regardless of who they took after Allen.

The "accuracy issues" pundits cited were based largely on his completion percentage of 56 his two years as a starter at Wyoming. How many of those pundits actually saw him play. How many sat through games in the type of weather he often played in? There can be a lot of reasons for that percentage, and "accuracy" doesn't even have to be a main one. How many receivers did he play with at Wyoming who got drafted? Exactly zero. Jones, who also played with substandard receivers in college, has had better completion percentage numbers every year in the NFL than he did in college. And that's still with less than average receivers.
By all accounts Allen outperformed Mayfield on and off the field all week at the senior bowl. Maybe it's time fans realize the "draft experts" aren't experts at all. The draft "experts" loved Darnold. Most said Jackson wouldn't be a good QB. Walker Football had the 2017 group ranked Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Rosen and Jackson.
RE: ...  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 12:15 pm : link
In comment 16010232 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
everyone is searching for a soundbite. not one specific, detailed question so far that would actually get a good answer.


I just said this to my buddy, asking "when exactly did you decide Jones was the guy?" was one example of a moronic question.
RE: RE: RE: Resigning Jones  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16010119 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:


Quote:


Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?

Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.



Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still

Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).


One more--Dak is killing Dallas? Ok...we're talking about them losing in the playoffs. What was the altnarrive to signing Dak and can you guarantee me that Dallas is playing next sunday if instead of signing Dak they did something else?

I am getting tired of arguing these takes that never prove anything and overstate certain issues.

Dallas goes to the playoffs almost every year or every year Dak is healthy. Yes, he can't get them to the super bowl. But who can? Where is that guy? How can you prove that Dallas is BETTER today if they didn't pay Dak? We're talking a HUGE leap here from losing to winning yesterday based on ONE complex move, that being not signing Dak and drafting his replacement. What if Dallas is WORSE? I guess we don't consider that distinct possibilty.

Don't tell me Dallas is clearly better if they don't sign Dak. You can't prove this and honedtly, it's a stretch to suggest it. Is it possible? Sure. And it's unlikely.

Would Dallas be better off heading into 2023 without Dak and all that money? Maybe. Maybe they still can find that FA QB and dump Dak anyway. WHo is that QB? BRady? Doubtful. Carr? PLease. Rodgers? lol ok sure.

It's not that simple but so many here make it sound like it is just that.
RE: RE: ...  
Justlurking : 1/23/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16010220 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010071 christian said:


Quote:


Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.



This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.


i just dont think Schoen values RB like Saquon would force him to. I expect they re-sign Jones and move on from Saquon.
RE: RE: Excited to see what they do  
Justlurking : 1/23/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16009932 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009902 46and2Blue said:


Quote:


They have some money and some base pieces. LW will be an interesting, situation. says he wants to play with dex, but I don't see him giving up his 32 mil.



Yeah, meanwhile, man I can't see paying him 32 million dollars. I saw his dead cap hit is 20 million, so it's brutal either way. Thanks, Dave. The 'gift' that keeps giving.


Hideous. He is so grossly overpaid
blueblood  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:19 pm : link
No.

They could have kept pushing the can down the road like they have done for years.
RE: RE: RE: Joe Schoen time now  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:19 pm : link
In comment 16010221 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16010207 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:


Quote:


Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.




We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.

.



There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?

It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.

I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.

What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.


Who said WIN NOW? Who said go crazy like a drunken sailor. I didn't. I said don't kick guys like Barkley and Jones to the curb.

Can we keep the discussion centered and not try and twist words and takes into some extreme nonsense? Every time I say stop fearing the money and cap so much, but RESPECT the process, you guys come at me and act mike I don't know NFL economics. Trust me I know.

Who the hell said go all in at the trade deadline? I said to go after a good WR if he was available for the right price.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:21 pm : link
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
22m
Joe Schoen calls it ‘a good season.’ #Giants like understating

Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
21m
Joe Schoen: "The foundation has been set."
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:21 pm : link
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
22m
Joe Schoen: “There’s tremendous energy in the building right now.”

Thanks the Mara and Tisch families for providing the resources for building the best team they could in 2022

“The foundation has been set.”
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:22 pm : link
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
22m
Schoen said the culture-building enabled the team's fast start on the field. The playoff experience will allow them to build moving forward.
You can’t just say “so what” if Jones is Dak  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2023 12:22 pm : link
If the Giants pay Jones like Dak and all he ends up being is Dak, the Giants made a huge mistake.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:22 pm : link
Charlotte Carroll
@charlottecrrll
Joe Schoen: “We’d like Daniel (Jones) to be here”
Schoen showed so much restraint  
antdog24 : 1/23/2023 12:22 pm : link
and patience with the money. It's now going to pay off this offseason. The roster is going to be fortified and we should see the talent gap close next season.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:23 pm : link
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
22m
Joe Schoen right out of the gates: Says he wants Daniel Jones to be here. He acknowledges the “business side to it.”
RE: RE: Joe Schoen time now  
Blueworm : 1/23/2023 12:23 pm : link
In comment 16010207 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:


Quote:


Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.



So you're telling me right now if NEal develops into a solid starter and we add one very good center or guard in FA and do the same on defense, let's say add a very good LB. Then we draft a WR in round 1 or 2---that team isn't a lot better next season?

We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.

BUILD this team up around the stars we already possess. Why the hell are we going to move guys out thqat we know can play and are under 26 year old? So we can try and find those guys all over again? Why?

Even if Jones has a ceiling, he can play. Worry about that ceiling when the time comes 3-4 years from now. LEt's sustain some winning first and knock on the door more than once. Build around Jones and Barkley. Help them get better as much as they helped the Giants win this season despite little to no help other than Thomas.


Eagles had three Pro Bowlers on the OL.


I know, popularity contest, but the talent level across all facets was much higher.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:23 pm : link
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
22m
Schoen: "We'd like Daniel [Jones] to be here." There's a business side to it, but they haven't gone down that road yet. "We just continued to evaluate him throughout the season." He continued to improve and they're pleased with how he played.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:24 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
22m
Joe Schoen: "Saquon's a good player, a great teammate ... he's a guy we'd like to have back."

#Giants

"We would like to have Saquon back if it works out."
again  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:24 pm : link
we are virtually paying NO ONE. Galloday, Jackson, Williams..who else? And Gall is done here with money coming off the next 1-2 years.

So by paying our star RB who is 3 years removed and our dual threat QB who is 26 we're going all in like fools? No, we're keeping the young core intact.

Team building.
Interesting  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2023 12:25 pm : link
Quote:
GM Joe Schoen: “We would like to have Daniel Jones back.”

He says there’s a “business side” to it and “we haven’t gone down that road yet,” but he is their QB.


Would mean the asshat information that they were close to a deal was wrong, if this is true.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:25 pm : link
The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
22m
I asked Schoen about Barkley—“I would like to have him back but we have to work with salary cap rules. Need to step back and take emotions out of it and see if it works for both of us”

Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
21m
Joe Schoen says Giants have not discussed any timetables for contract negotiations. Staff meetings on personnel side on Thursday.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:26 pm : link
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
22m
Joe Schoen: "I wouldn't say we overachieved." They built a roster that had a lot of "teammates" and not just players.

Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
22m
Schoen declines to answer if they want Daniel back on a long-term or short-term deal. Said they have to go through differnt scenrios and discuss with Daniel's side.
Reading tea leaves  
Essex : 1/23/2023 12:26 pm : link
I think Schoen is much more committed to working something out with Jones than Barkley. I think that is smart.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:27 pm : link
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
21m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he ideally wants to sign Jones to a long-term contract, says "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." Says it will be a negotiation and conversation. Giants will begin to get into those decisions and scenarios Thursday

Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
21m
Joe Schoen jokes (half-jokes) that he liked hearing Leonard Williams say he would be willing to take a paycut. Says whoever asked him that question did a great job
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 1/23/2023 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16010220 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010071 christian said:


Quote:


Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.



This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.


The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
RE: You can’t just say “so what” if Jones is Dak  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16010257 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
If the Giants pay Jones like Dak and all he ends up being is Dak, the Giants made a huge mistake.


I disagree, and it's stupid to compare the two because they aren't the same guy.

HUGE mistake paying a good QB? Try again. Paying Galladay was a huge mistake. Cmon.

Fear of spending money. It's out of hand lately. Not every overpay means there was a better slam dunk alternative on the other side. You pay and then you pray. Welcome to the NFL. If you don't pay a good player because you fear that ONE player can't win a super bowl then you don't pay him. How the fuck can anyone predict that? You can't. So stop.
RE: RE: RE: Joe Schoen time now  
.McL. : 1/23/2023 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16010221 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16010207 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:


Quote:


Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.




We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.

.



There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?

It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.

I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.

What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.

Don't bother.

djm has argued for years that the cap is immaterial and has no impact on roster construction.

No rational argument has ever changed his mind in the past. I see no reason why it would be any different now.
RE: Reading tea leaves  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 12:28 pm : link
In comment 16010272 Essex said:
Quote:
I think Schoen is much more committed to working something out with Jones than Barkley. I think that is smart.


Got the same read Essex.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:28 pm : link
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
21m
Brian Daboll: Just because you won one year doesn’t guarantee you anything next year #giants

Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
20m
Joe Schoen: "We're still building this thing so we can sustain it."
The Cowboys had a playoff caliber roster before they ever paid Dak  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2023 12:29 pm : link
The Giants roster isn’t close to what the Cowboys roster was when they have Dak that deal. Dak isn’t worth $40 million and neither is Jones.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:29 pm : link
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
19m
Schoen said the process all boils down to how they want to divy up the resources they have moving forward.

The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
19m
Schoen says they weren’t close numbers wise with Barkley during bye week talks
Glad he was honest  
bceagle05 : 1/23/2023 12:29 pm : link
about the talent gap between us and Philly at the moment.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:29 pm : link
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
18m
#Giants Schoen - a WR1 is really important but he wont guarantee you win...many WR1s are were home for playoffs...it is important to build the team.
Schoen finally slipped  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 12:30 pm : link
He said we're looking forward to Daniel Jones being our quarterback next year, reporters asked a follow up and he was quiet for 1-2 seconds.

Looks like he's getting tagged if they can't get a deal done.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:30 pm : link
In comment 16010274 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16010220 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010071 christian said:


Quote:


Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.



This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.



The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.


You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.

Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.

Bye.
It  
AcidTest : 1/23/2023 12:30 pm : link
certainly sounds like they intend to prioritize resigning our current players instead of being big players in FA, which is smart.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:30 pm : link
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
18m
The Giants reiterated they were happy with everything Saquon Barkley gave them this season. As for the previous negotiations during bye week:

“That time of the year we weren’t really that close,” Schoen said.

They hope to find something that works for both sides this offseason

The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
18m
Schoen says like most rookie classes they had ups and downs
RE: Schoen finally slipped  
Essex : 1/23/2023 12:31 pm : link
In comment 16010286 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
He said we're looking forward to Daniel Jones being our quarterback next year, reporters asked a follow up and he was quiet for 1-2 seconds.

Looks like he's getting tagged if they can't get a deal done.

Even earlier he said "we have tools." Jones is going to be here. Barkley he was much less committal toward.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:31 pm : link
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
18m
#Giants Schoen - got lot of contributions from the rookies, even with injuries..some of them will compete as starters next year and others will be be really good depth

#Giants Schoen - will also have to talk about how to handle dexter lawrence's 5th yr option

#Giants Schoen - team has known commodities who are in-house....good players from that group are the priority

Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
16m
Schoen said Dexter Lawrence has done enough to earn a second contract. Said they will discuss how they want to apporach that since he's under contract for 2023 on his option year.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:32 pm : link
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
16m
Schoen favors re-signing those players who fit the program. Said they're known commodities and adds they'll be the priority first.

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
15m
#Giants Schoen - wanted to see progress...saw it thru the season..personnel dept did great job with waivers/signings/pr squad

Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
15m
Joe Schoen doesn't believe that you're ever "one player away."
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
christian : 1/23/2023 12:33 pm : link
In comment 16010287 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010274 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16010220 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010071 christian said:


Quote:


Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.



This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.



The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.



You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.

Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.

Bye.


Did someone skips their meds this morning?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:33 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
14m
Joe Schoen between Giants and Philly (and 49ers): "Yes, there's a talent gap there that needs to close."
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:34 pm : link
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
14m
Joe Schoen "There's a talent gap there that we need to close." He cites the strength of the NFC East.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:35 pm : link
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
14m
Daboll said he has confidence in his staff when asked if he was planning any coaching changes. Said you have to have a plan in case someone isn't back.

Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
13m
Schoen said the goal is to close the gap between the Giants and teams like the Eagles. Said it's important to win the NFC East and everything else will take care of itself.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:35 pm : link
Charlotte Carroll
@charlottecrrll
·
14m
“You always have to have a plan”

Brian Daboll on if potential coordinator positions open with Wink Martindale and Mike Kafka taking HC interviews. Says he’s confident with group inside and work they’ve put in to make year 2 smooth

The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
14m
Schoen says there was few occasions when he wanted to add veterans but couldn’t financial wise, didn’t have flexibility.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:36 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "Dinner was good" with Odell Beckham Jr. on free agent visit. Says Giants will get together and formulate free agent plans starting next week.

Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
14m
Joe Schoen says the dinner with Odell Beckham was "good" but deflects on directly answering about revisiting that option.

Speaks generally to all free agent options they will evaluate

John Schmeelk
@Schmeelk
·
14m
Also cited 1-5-1 record in NFC East and later added that increased flexibility this offseason with the cap and 9 draft picks will help do that.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:37 pm : link
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
13m
#Giants Schoen on Love - werent able to get a new deal in the bye...he knows the team wants him, had a good exit interview

Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
13m
Schoen said there are some potential FAs out there that can help the team moving forward.

Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
13m
Schoen on Sterling Shepard: "Love Shep. Juice guy." He's been a tremendous resource despite the injury.
Schoen did pretty well answering the questions  
OdellBeckhamJr : 1/23/2023 12:37 pm : link
he seemed less nervous this time. It's nice to have a GM who doesn't make me cringe with his answers
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:38 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
12m
Joe Schoen says his opinion on Xavier McKinney has not changed following his ATV accident. "He's a great kid that we look forward to working with." #Giants

Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
12m
Schoen said they'll continue monitoring Sterling Shepard's rehab. Haven't closed the door on his returning.
I think he let it slip though  
jvm52106 : 1/23/2023 12:38 pm : link
Jones isn't going anywhere. They will tag him if needed.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:38 pm : link
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "You shop hungry, you overpay."
I liked what I heard  
Sean : 1/23/2023 12:39 pm : link
As I’ve suspected, Jones being back depends on the money. They’ll tag him if they have to, so at minimum he’s back for 2023. I don’t think he’s getting some massive contract though.

I think Barkley may be gone.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:39 pm : link
In comment 16010298 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16010287 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010274 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16010220 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010071 christian said:


Quote:


Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.



This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.



The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.



You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.

Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.

Bye.



Did someone skips their meds this morning?


I don’t take meds. Nice classy post though. Are you really a Christian?

Conjure up one wrong take or one take that seems outlandish. I’m only getting out in front of the barrage of cap money fearful takes that will inundate this site over the coming months. I’m in the minority so I guess I’m crazy.

One take that was wrong or can’t be argued.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:39 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "If you shop hungry, then you overpay and it's a bad deal, you have buyer's remorse." #Giants
main thing is that I trust Schoen to set a value for each player  
Victor in CT : 1/23/2023 12:39 pm : link
and stick to it. You can't overpay because it kills your cap down the road. I like Williams and hope they work something out and he stays, but I would understand if they traded him to a team that's closer to the SB that needs a stalwart DT for picks this year. I like Love, but if someone throws silly $$ at him let him go and trot Pinnock out there and draft another S. Hodgins is the only WR I'd hate to see go. He would be really good as a possession type. Slayton and James are replaceable, Shep is a good guy but enough already.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:40 pm : link
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
12m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he believes Daniel Jones can win a Super Bowl, says in his answer: "We're happy he's gonna be here."

Did he slip?

Told he just said Jones would be here, he goes back to his early general statement.

But... interesting!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:41 pm : link
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
12m
#Giants Schoen on injuries - trying to figure out reasons and how to improve team's health in the future

Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
12m
Schoen said the book is pretty much closed on 2022. It's onto 2023. "There's no vacation."

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
11m
#Giants Schoen - process been in place for one year....year 2 should be smoother

Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
11m
Schoen said UFAs wil be the early priority, but they'll also look at guys who are nearing the end of their contracts.
I did not get the sense that they would overpay on Barkley  
Essex : 1/23/2023 12:41 pm : link
if something can be worked out that is team friendly, they might do it. If they get Jones done and can use the franchise, they might do it. But, I did not get the sense that they are breaking the bank for him--which is great news.
I miss DG's swagger  
PatersonPlank : 1/23/2023 12:41 pm : link
just kidding
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:41 pm : link
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
10m
Joe Schoen said they're going to be "relentless" in the pursuit of building a championship team here.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:42 pm : link
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
9m
One theme of Joe Schoen's approach to the offseason signings and decisions, it appears, is that he values "in-house" knowledge of players as people, injury histories, performance. It's very clear he is prioritizing *trying* to keep the NYG UFAs who impressed him in the building

Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
9m
Daboll said their philosophy isn't just to collect talent. It's to build a team.
I would love to know how he is planning to address injuries  
RCPhoenix : 1/23/2023 12:43 pm : link
It can't just be coincidence or bad luck that the Giants are consistently among the most injured teams - and was the most injured among playoff teams.

RE: I did not get the sense that they would overpay on Barkley  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 12:43 pm : link
In comment 16010322 Essex said:
Quote:
if something can be worked out that is team friendly, they might do it. If they get Jones done and can use the franchise, they might do it. But, I did not get the sense that they are breaking the bank for him--which is great news.


Based on Saquon's comments the other day he knows it too. If he plays too much hardball they will let him walk.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 12:43 pm : link
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Came away from Schoen’s presser 100% convinced Daniel Jones will be back. Expect Saquon back as well, but Schoen did not speak as definitively about him.
RE: ...  
chick310 : 1/23/2023 12:44 pm : link
In comment 16010312 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "You shop hungry, you overpay."



"That's bullshit Joe"

RE: Schoen finally slipped  
Ron Johnson : 1/23/2023 12:45 pm : link
In comment 16010286 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
He said we're looking forward to Daniel Jones being our quarterback next year, reporters asked a follow up and he was quiet for 1-2 seconds.

Looks like he's getting tagged if they can't get a deal done.



At the end he went further. He said they're glad Jones is going to be there.

Sounds like a deal is done or at least they're in the same ballpark as Jones people.
My post was pretty grounded and calm  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:45 pm : link
I read it again to be sure. I’ve said far worse.

It’s hard posting a take in the minority and getting yelled at by people. What can I say it’s something I believe in. I usually provide facts or good evidence — yet it angers some of you or forces some to come at me and twist my words to make them sound looney.

All I said was don’t give up on the core of talent here simply because we’re not in the elite class of teams yet. And I called out the Dak takes as a little crazy.

THAT is unacceptable? Tough crowd.
RE: Reading tea leaves  
Justlurking : 1/23/2023 12:45 pm : link
In comment 16010272 Essex said:
Quote:
I think Schoen is much more committed to working something out with Jones than Barkley. I think that is smart.


Had same exact impression
RE: ...  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 12:45 pm : link
In comment 16010329 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Came away from Schoen’s presser 100% convinced Daniel Jones will be back. Expect Saquon back as well, but Schoen did not speak as definitively about him.


1000% I was kinda surprised at how assertiveness in wanting Jones back and as mentioned Schoen slipped up saying he will be back.

They clearly like Saquon but absolutely no overpaying, he'll get what they feel is a fair offer and if wants more he can get it elsewhere.
RE: main thing is that I trust Schoen to set a value for each player  
Costy16 : 1/23/2023 12:49 pm : link
In comment 16010317 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
and stick to it. You can't overpay because it kills your cap down the road. I like Williams and hope they work something out and he stays, but I would understand if they traded him to a team that's closer to the SB that needs a stalwart DT for picks this year. I like Love, but if someone throws silly $$ at him let him go and trot Pinnock out there and draft another S. Hodgins is the only WR I'd hate to see go. He would be really good as a possession type. Slayton and James are replaceable, Shep is a good guy but enough already.


I like LW but that contract is hefty. They have Lawrence (who is due a contract) and they can grab a DT in the draft if they want to have a cost-controlled piece on the DL.
RE: ...  
Milton : 1/23/2023 12:49 pm : link
In comment 16010319 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he believes Daniel Jones can win a Super Bowl, says in his answer: "We're happy he's gonna be here."

Did he slip?

Told he just said Jones would be here, he goes back to his early general statement.
He will be here on the franchise tag if they can't agree on a multi-year deal. And this was no slip, it was intentional, and aimed directly at Jones and his agent. He was making it perfectly clear that Jones will not see free agency. If the media and fan got the message, too, so be it, but this so-called "slip" was for the benefit of Jones and his agent.
Also  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 12:49 pm : link
Seems like Schoen agrees with Sy regarding his answer to the #1 WR question. Its a need but the Giants still need significant improvement near the LOS on both sides of the ball.

Interior OL, depth on DL and LB's are all needed. I'd also love an impact dual threat TE but that's me Christmas shopping.
RE: I would love to know how he is planning to address injuries  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 12:49 pm : link
In comment 16010327 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
It can't just be coincidence or bad luck that the Giants are consistently among the most injured teams - and was the most injured among playoff teams.



not a knock on you but the chart, seattle looks like they had more and they made it.

this year they were more middle of the pack injuries than prior years and in the playoffs they were close to full strength.

unlike prior years i think most of the injuries (the mcls) were contact injuries (williams, jackson, thibs, neal, barkley stinger, ezeudu neck). bellinger was obviously a contact injury.

the rookie class ACLs were the only really bizarre thing this year. 4 in one class is nuts.
I have a lot of confidence that they have a plan  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 12:50 pm : link
And will stick to it.

I just feel good about the direction.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 1/23/2023 12:50 pm : link
In comment 16010319 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
12m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he believes Daniel Jones can win a Super Bowl, says in his answer: "We're happy he's gonna be here."



Well, that is the right question that needs to be asked internally. But it requires an additional question if you answer "yes".

And if yes, what do you have to do to support that belief? More offensive resources that could negative impact the balance of the team. Or do you think Jones will grow without over-committing those resources. It had better be the latter...

BTW, I'm so sick of these OBJ scenarios. I can't think of a receiver I'd have less interest in adding...
RE: Also  
Costy16 : 1/23/2023 12:51 pm : link
In comment 16010343 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Seems like Schoen agrees with Sy regarding his answer to the #1 WR question. Its a need but the Giants still need significant improvement near the LOS on both sides of the ball.

Interior OL, depth on DL and LB's are all needed. I'd also love an impact dual threat TE but that's me Christmas shopping.


I also thought Schoen's comment about teams being home from the playoffs who have a true #1WR was an off-hand reference to Diggs and the Bills.
RE: My post was pretty grounded and calm  
PatersonPlank : 1/23/2023 12:52 pm : link
In comment 16010334 djm said:
Quote:
I read it again to be sure. I’ve said far worse.

It’s hard posting a take in the minority and getting yelled at by people. What can I say it’s something I believe in. I usually provide facts or good evidence — yet it angers some of you or forces some to come at me and twist my words to make them sound looney.

All I said was don’t give up on the core of talent here simply because we’re not in the elite class of teams yet. And I called out the Dak takes as a little crazy.

THAT is unacceptable? Tough crowd.


I don't think the Dak talk is crazy at all, and I don't think a position on Dak affects your core premise at all. I believe in paying/keeping your core, like it sounds you do too, but consider the Dak situation excessive. Of course neither you nor I know what would have happened it they didn't give Dak insane dollars, its just our opinion. However I do believe that they could have gotten the same production from a QB half the price, and that means another ~$23M or so available to improve a different area. Better LBs, another WR, etc could have made a big difference last night.

Just because you have a basic philosophy of keeping the core together doesn't mean at all costs. Paying Dak "Mahomes-like" money (or elite money) was stupid IMO. Its clear he is not worth anywhere near that much
I get the sense  
Sean : 1/23/2023 12:53 pm : link
Schoen wants to build a well balanced team while maintaining cap flexibility. I don’t see any player getting a massive chunk of the cap long term.
RE: RE: main thing is that I trust Schoen to set a value for each player  
Victor in CT : 1/23/2023 12:53 pm : link
In comment 16010341 Costy16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010317 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


and stick to it. You can't overpay because it kills your cap down the road. I like Williams and hope they work something out and he stays, but I would understand if they traded him to a team that's closer to the SB that needs a stalwart DT for picks this year. I like Love, but if someone throws silly $$ at him let him go and trot Pinnock out there and draft another S. Hodgins is the only WR I'd hate to see go. He would be really good as a possession type. Slayton and James are replaceable, Shep is a good guy but enough already.



I like LW but that contract is hefty. They have Lawrence (who is due a contract) and they can grab a DT in the draft if they want to have a cost-controlled piece on the DL.


yup
Hodgins  
AcidTest : 1/23/2023 12:54 pm : link
is absolutely coming back next year. Agree that Jones is more likely than Saquon, but the exclusive FT for QBs is $45M IIRC. Ouch!

Hope Love comes back and that Lawrence gets a new contract.
RE: RE: ...  
Victor in CT : 1/23/2023 12:54 pm : link
In comment 16010348 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16010319 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
12m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he believes Daniel Jones can win a Super Bowl, says in his answer: "We're happy he's gonna be here."





Well, that is the right question that needs to be asked internally. But it requires an additional question if you answer "yes".

And if yes, what do you have to do to support that belief? More offensive resources that could negative impact the balance of the team. Or do you think Jones will grow without over-committing those resources. It had better be the latter...

BTW, I'm so sick of these OBJ scenarios. I can't think of a receiver I'd have less interest in adding...


THANK YOU! How stupid do you have to be to think that jerk with 2 ACLs behind him now is worth the $$ and the headaches?
 
christian : 1/23/2023 12:55 pm : link
Schoen implied a lot of pretty responsible views to me:

1) LW’s current agreement needs to be addressed

2) If Barkley isn’t trying to reset the market (per SB) and they aren’t close, the dollar value Schoen puts on RB might be pretty low

3) They aren’t rolling over to Team Jones
RE: I have a lot of confidence that they have a plan  
Sean : 1/23/2023 12:56 pm : link
In comment 16010347 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And will stick to it.

I just feel good about the direction.

It’s so nice seeing Schoen & Daboll up there together. Gettleman would be up there solo talking about giving the head coach good players to work with. Absolutely no unified direction before. Now there seems to be a unified direction.
You have to take the fandom  
jvm52106 : 1/23/2023 12:56 pm : link
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.

Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.

When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.
Man I love this Schoen and Daboll combination  
BigBlue7 : 1/23/2023 12:57 pm : link
Love the answers they gave and how they wouldn’t give an inch on the fishing questions from the media. The previous GM loved trying to sound smart and it resulted in him constantly saying more than he should
RE: You have to take the fandom  
djm : 1/23/2023 12:59 pm : link
In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.

Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.

When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.


You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.

Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?
No  
AcidTest : 1/23/2023 1:00 pm : link
interest in OBJ, and I'd be stunned if the Giants did.

The Cowboys massively overpaid for Dak, as the Vikings did with Cousins. The Giants can't do the same with Jones. Don't pay a QB top five money who isn't playing at that level. Doing that is worse than the Jets blowing two top five picks on QBs in less than five years.
RE: RE: My post was pretty grounded and calm  
djm : 1/23/2023 1:00 pm : link
In comment 16010352 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16010334 djm said:


Quote:


I read it again to be sure. I’ve said far worse.

It’s hard posting a take in the minority and getting yelled at by people. What can I say it’s something I believe in. I usually provide facts or good evidence — yet it angers some of you or forces some to come at me and twist my words to make them sound looney.

All I said was don’t give up on the core of talent here simply because we’re not in the elite class of teams yet. And I called out the Dak takes as a little crazy.

THAT is unacceptable? Tough crowd.



I don't think the Dak talk is crazy at all, and I don't think a position on Dak affects your core premise at all. I believe in paying/keeping your core, like it sounds you do too, but consider the Dak situation excessive. Of course neither you nor I know what would have happened it they didn't give Dak insane dollars, its just our opinion. However I do believe that they could have gotten the same production from a QB half the price, and that means another ~$23M or so available to improve a different area. Better LBs, another WR, etc could have made a big difference last night.

Just because you have a basic philosophy of keeping the core together doesn't mean at all costs. Paying Dak "Mahomes-like" money (or elite money) was stupid IMO. Its clear he is not worth anywhere near that much


Fair enough. I don't think Dallas had a choice and I don't think they foresaw this regression out of Dak either, but I hear you.
RE: RE: ...  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/23/2023 1:01 pm : link
In comment 16010348 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16010319 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
12m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he believes Daniel Jones can win a Super Bowl, says in his answer: "We're happy he's gonna be here."

Well, that is the right question that needs to be asked internally. But it requires an additional question if you answer "yes".

And if yes, what do you have to do to support that belief? More offensive resources that could negative impact the balance of the team. Or do you think Jones will grow without over-committing those resources. It had better be the latter...



He said something else that made it clear that they wanted to build a team around Jones. it was in the discussion about the Superbowl, I think. There was an aside that seemed like they wouldn't be bringing him back if they didn't think he was capable. There were a fair number of Jones questions and some was hard to follow.
RE: RE: Reading tea leaves  
Milton : 1/23/2023 1:02 pm : link
In comment 16010336 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 16010272 Essex said:


Quote:


I think Schoen is much more committed to working something out with Jones than Barkley. I think that is smart.



Had same exact impression
I think the message is that the franchise tag is reserved (if necessary) for Jones, not Barkley. So we can be sure that Jones will be back, but Barkley's future with the team remains uncertain.
Smart teams do not commit a ton of money to RBs  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/23/2023 1:02 pm : link
because the chances of getting value back are low. RBs get hurt (unless everyone forgets, Barkley played the majority of this year with a shoulder injury) and the difference between a good RB and a great one are too small in terms of winning to justify the expense.

Barkley knows this, and he knows Schoen definitely knows this. Based on his comments yesterday, he'll take what the Giants are handing out, unless some other team overwhelms their offer.
RE: RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
Red Right Hand : 1/23/2023 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16009969 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:


Quote:


Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.



Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying

So as long as no one has the balls to call it out when it happens, it's cool? I don't think so. I saw the same thing, so did those i watched with. For some of them, beating the Vikings was good enough.I'm glad it isn't for management.
RE: Also  
Payasdaddy : 1/23/2023 1:06 pm : link
In comment 16010343 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Seems like Schoen agrees with Sy regarding his answer to the #1 WR question. Its a need but the Giants still need significant improvement near the LOS on both sides of the ball.

Interior OL, depth on DL and LB's are all needed. I'd also love an impact dual threat TE but that's me Christmas shopping.


For long term success, yes to IOL and front 7
Obviously need cbs and wrs but it all starts with stopping run and controlling LOS. Sure we will draft or sign cbs and wrs. But going big there ( cherry on top) may be 2024 If our first 4 picks over 3 rds fill with 1 ILB, IOL and D lineman, would be thrilled.
RE: You have to take the fandom  
Payasdaddy : 1/23/2023 1:09 pm : link
In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.

Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.

When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.


Saquon ran hard this yr, barely any soft stuff.
That being said, a contract that 3 yrs and less than 30 million may be as far as I would go
May be better off using that money towards front 7 or IOL
The foundation is set  
shyster : 1/23/2023 1:11 pm : link
I observed yesterday that the 2022 Giants strike me as the Knicks of two years ago.

Humans being human, not surprised to note the repetition of expression.

Quote:
NEW YORK KNICKS
@nyknicks
The foundation is set. Now it’s time to work.

4:30 PM · Sep 24, 2021


nyk twitter - ( New Window )
Is the vid available  
fanoftheteam : 1/23/2023 1:12 pm : link
Or do i have to sign up to some goofy thing to watch it until its on yourube tomorrow?
RE: RE: RE: Listening to the Giant Insider Podcast this morning  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2023 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16010392 Red Right Hand said:
Quote:
In comment 16009969 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16009915 aimrocky said:


Quote:


Chris Bisignano said it was apparent some of the Giant secondary didn't give the best effort on Saturday (specifically Adoree Jackson). He said Schoen sat behind him during the game and was visibly upset. He's sure Schoen saw what he saw regarding the effort.



Hell of an accusation to accuse guys of not trying


So as long as no one has the balls to call it out when it happens, it's cool? I don't think so. I saw the same thing, so did those i watched with. For some of them, beating the Vikings was good enough.I'm glad it isn't for management.


I find it hard to believe this group of guys just quit in a playoff game after how hard they’ve played all year. But whatever helps you sleep at night. Did Jones quit too?

They got out classed by a better team. It happens.
RE: Smart teams do not commit a ton of money to RBs  
AcidTest : 1/23/2023 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16010386 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
because the chances of getting value back are low. RBs get hurt (unless everyone forgets, Barkley played the majority of this year with a shoulder injury) and the difference between a good RB and a great one are too small in terms of winning to justify the expense.

Barkley knows this, and he knows Schoen definitely knows this. Based on his comments yesterday, he'll take what the Giants are handing out, unless some other team overwhelms their offer.


Agreed. I think they are much more willing to have Barkley test the FA market than Jones. Love the way Barkley played this year. His effort was outstanding and he certainly seemed to have regained the burst and speed he had before the ACL. But he had additional injuries this year, and the shelf life for RBs is short.
Just A Guess  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 1:14 pm : link
They have a number for Jones and if he wants more they'll franchise tag him, pay him over $40 and basically say "If you prove it to us we'll gladly pay that".

Jones would obviously make really good money but lose long term security and he has had injuries.

They want him here regardless but he'll need to prove he deserves $40 mil by making it and playing up to it. If he regresses you saved yourself the contract.
RE: Smart teams do not commit a ton of money to RBs  
djm : 1/23/2023 1:18 pm : link
In comment 16010386 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
because the chances of getting value back are low. RBs get hurt (unless everyone forgets, Barkley played the majority of this year with a shoulder injury) and the difference between a good RB and a great one are too small in terms of winning to justify the expense.

Barkley knows this, and he knows Schoen definitely knows this. Based on his comments yesterday, he'll take what the Giants are handing out, unless some other team overwhelms their offer.


I hate to keep arguing this but this isn't really true. Define smart? Is Dallas smart? They sure know how to draft and they do win. Philly paid plenty of Rbs over the years, and they likely will pay Sanders when he hits Fa. The niners just traded a bunch of shit for CMC and he gets paid a lot. THE NINERS. Chargers and Ekeler--he gets paid. So many more.

I'm like a broken record and most just either ignore me or say I am nuts. You can do the same but it would be nice if people at least acknowledged that teams do pay the RB. Sure it's a risk...they still pay them.
RE: Just A Guess  
japanhead : 1/23/2023 1:19 pm : link
In comment 16010410 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
They have a number for Jones and if he wants more they'll franchise tag him, pay him over $40 and basically say "If you prove it to us we'll gladly pay that".

Jones would obviously make really good money but lose long term security and he has had injuries.

They want him here regardless but he'll need to prove he deserves $40 mil by making it and playing up to it. If he regresses you saved yourself the contract.


wouldn't they just use the non-exclusive tag and save 13 or so million and be happy with getting two firsts if jones gets an offer well north of 31 million AAV?

I dont think they use the exclusive tag on him.
Better start getting  
Blueworm : 1/23/2023 1:22 pm : link
Some division wins.


This year was an outlier.
RE: ...  
ZogZerg : 1/23/2023 1:23 pm : link
In comment 16010315 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "If you shop hungry, then you overpay and it's a bad deal, you have buyer's remorse." #Giants


This is the way BBI shops, ALL the time. We wouldn't have any cap space in 2023 if it was up to many here.
I didn’t take it as a slip up  
BigBlue7 : 1/23/2023 1:34 pm : link
Jones will have a contract or he will be franchised. Not rocket surgery
RE: ...  
Dr. D : 1/23/2023 1:35 pm : link
In comment 16010295 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
15m
Joe Schoen doesn't believe that you're ever "one player away."

Good to hear. I get really tired of hearing that. You add talent when you can; when it's available. You don't wait until you're supposedly "one player away" to, for example, trade for a difference making WR (getting the right value is another story). When you think you really are just "one player away", will that player be available?

Do you miss out on a playoff run like '07 because you didn't sign the FA WR in '05 (because you were supposedly not "one player away" at the time)?
RE: Just A Guess  
Optimus-NY : 1/23/2023 1:37 pm : link
In comment 16010410 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
They have a number for Jones and if he wants more they'll franchise tag him, pay him over $40 and basically say "If you prove it to us we'll gladly pay that".

Jones would obviously make really good money but lose long term security and he has had injuries.

They want him here regardless but he'll need to prove he deserves $40 mil by making it and playing up to it. If he regresses you saved yourself the contract.


Sounds logical. Agreed.
RE: RE: Smart teams do not commit a ton of money to RBs  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/23/2023 1:42 pm : link
In comment 16010417 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010386 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


because the chances of getting value back are low. RBs get hurt (unless everyone forgets, Barkley played the majority of this year with a shoulder injury) and the difference between a good RB and a great one are too small in terms of winning to justify the expense.

Barkley knows this, and he knows Schoen definitely knows this. Based on his comments yesterday, he'll take what the Giants are handing out, unless some other team overwhelms their offer.



I hate to keep arguing this but this isn't really true. Define smart? Is Dallas smart? They sure know how to draft and they do win. Philly paid plenty of Rbs over the years, and they likely will pay Sanders when he hits Fa. The niners just traded a bunch of shit for CMC and he gets paid a lot. THE NINERS. Chargers and Ekeler--he gets paid. So many more.

I'm like a broken record and most just either ignore me or say I am nuts. You can do the same but it would be nice if people at least acknowledged that teams do pay the RB. Sure it's a risk...they still pay them.


They got Sanders in the bottom half of round 2. I think they can find another RB around then again to replace him.

IMO, good O linemen are more important to the rushing attack than good RBs.
RE: I didn’t take it as a slip up  
.McL. : 1/23/2023 1:42 pm : link
In comment 16010454 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
Jones will have a contract or he will be franchised. Not rocket surgery

Do you use a scalpel or a computer for "Rocket Surgery"?
Do you need to get a medical degree and a PhD in physics to be one of those?

LOL

Talk about mixing your metaphors...
RE: RE: Just A Guess  
AcidTest : 1/23/2023 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16010420 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 16010410 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


They have a number for Jones and if he wants more they'll franchise tag him, pay him over $40 and basically say "If you prove it to us we'll gladly pay that".

Jones would obviously make really good money but lose long term security and he has had injuries.

They want him here regardless but he'll need to prove he deserves $40 mil by making it and playing up to it. If he regresses you saved yourself the contract.



wouldn't they just use the non-exclusive tag and save 13 or so million and be happy with getting two firsts if jones gets an offer well north of 31 million AAV?

I dont think they use the exclusive tag on him.


Tend to agree.
RE: RE: RE: Smart teams do not commit a ton of money to RBs  
.McL. : 1/23/2023 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16010471 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 16010417 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010386 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


because the chances of getting value back are low. RBs get hurt (unless everyone forgets, Barkley played the majority of this year with a shoulder injury) and the difference between a good RB and a great one are too small in terms of winning to justify the expense.

Barkley knows this, and he knows Schoen definitely knows this. Based on his comments yesterday, he'll take what the Giants are handing out, unless some other team overwhelms their offer.



I hate to keep arguing this but this isn't really true. Define smart? Is Dallas smart? They sure know how to draft and they do win. Philly paid plenty of Rbs over the years, and they likely will pay Sanders when he hits Fa. The niners just traded a bunch of shit for CMC and he gets paid a lot. THE NINERS. Chargers and Ekeler--he gets paid. So many more.

I'm like a broken record and most just either ignore me or say I am nuts. You can do the same but it would be nice if people at least acknowledged that teams do pay the RB. Sure it's a risk...they still pay them.



They got Sanders in the bottom half of round 2. I think they can find another RB around then again to replace him.

IMO, good O linemen are more important to the rushing attack than good RBs.

Agreed...

People say that the QB is a force multiplier...

The OL is really the force multiplier. THey make the ground game better, they make the QB better who in turn makes receivers better...
RE: RE: Just A Guess  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 1:45 pm : link
In comment 16010420 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 16010410 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


They have a number for Jones and if he wants more they'll franchise tag him, pay him over $40 and basically say "If you prove it to us we'll gladly pay that".

Jones would obviously make really good money but lose long term security and he has had injuries.

They want him here regardless but he'll need to prove he deserves $40 mil by making it and playing up to it. If he regresses you saved yourself the contract.



wouldn't they just use the non-exclusive tag and save 13 or so million and be happy with getting two firsts if jones gets an offer well north of 31 million AAV?

I dont think they use the exclusive tag on him.


It all depends on how they view DJ and what his ceiling is. He can get better and I think they feel the same. At the same time I wouldn't be comfortable breaking the bank for him and they aren't either.

Saving $13 million and scooping 2 first round picks is great unless you let a legitimate franchise QB go who has proven capable of handling NY and now you need to find another. They don't grow on trees.

Based on what I saw today Schoen and Daboll really like Jones, he's proven to have a very strong mental makeup and his actual play has gotten much better. He's currently not worth $40 mil but if they use the exclusive tag that tells you they feel he can get there.
Also JapanHead  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 1:49 pm : link
I'm not arguing its the 100% right move, I like the idea of the non exclusive tag and finding a way to get CJ Stroud and pair him with Daboll. What he did against Georgia was extremely impressive. Very difficult for us to get from 25 to top 5 though.

Exclusive/Non-Exclusive comes down to what they think Jones can ultimately be...using exclusive tells me they are all in on him and I'd be ok with that b/c I think Daboll knows what a really good QB is and isn't.
Schoen needs to show more patience with drafting  
Vanzetti : 1/23/2023 1:50 pm : link
Evaluating talent is hit or miss, regardless of who your evaluators are.

He took Ezeudu and WanDale early and really got almost zero production from them.

WanDale did flash but the reason he was projected in the third round is that his diminutive stature and style of play suggests he will be injury prone. Just like KT.

Sometimes you have to wait on a guy and see if he drops. That allows you to draft someone who might not project as high but is going to give you more production overall.

I still like a lot of the guys Giants drafted but other than KT they did not really get production out of any of the picks. And even KT flashed more than he provided overall production.

RE: My post was pretty grounded and calm  
Dr. D : 1/23/2023 1:52 pm : link
In comment 16010334 djm said:
Quote:
I read it again to be sure. I’ve said far worse.

It’s hard posting a take in the minority and getting yelled at by people. What can I say it’s something I believe in. I usually provide facts or good evidence — yet it angers some of you or forces some to come at me and twist my words to make them sound looney.

All I said was don’t give up on the core of talent here simply because we’re not in the elite class of teams yet. And I called out the Dak takes as a little crazy.

THAT is unacceptable? Tough crowd.

I'm just skimming, but I think you responded to someone who said we should tear it down and rebuild. I'm with you in not wanting a total rebuild. Why would we do that? We have a core of a pretty young team that just went to the 2nd rd.

I trust JS and Daboll to resign the guys they want at the best deals possible, though I wouldn't be shocked if Barkley ends up elsewhere and we draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. Not saying I necessarily want that, I just wouldn't be shocked.
RE: RE: ...  
Producer : 1/23/2023 1:52 pm : link
In comment 16010331 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010312 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "You shop hungry, you overpay."





If they give Jones $40M/yr they're shopping hungry. It will be the worst contract in the history of the NFL and it will go right around Schoen's neck.
RE: RE: You have to take the fandom  
jvm52106 : 1/23/2023 1:53 pm : link
In comment 16010374 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.

Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.

When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.



You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.

Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?


He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.

Interesting comparison:

259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc

vs

295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc

The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
RE: ...  
Giantfan in skinland : 1/23/2023 1:59 pm : link
In comment 16010270 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
22m
I asked Schoen about Barkley—“I would like to have him back but we have to work with salary cap rules. Need to step back and take emotions out of it and see if it works for both of us”

Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·


This is the answer that has me most excited. It's exactly the mindset I am hoping the Giants have with Saquon. Specifically that he is noting that they have to take the emotions (to me - sentiment) out of it and evaluate this based on a cold hard look at salary cap implications for giving significant money to this particular player/position. There's a right number for this player and then there's paying a great ambassador of the Giant product (especially through some very lean years) too much based on episodic production that he becomes increasingly less likely to match with each year that passes.

Saquon's comments on not resetting the market are a start. I do think the franchise tag could be a possibility if they can get Jones done quickly. Otherwise, I am expecting Saquon to test the market but maybe give us a chance to match given his preference of staying. If he does, I suspect someone will offer more than we're willing to pay.
RE: RE: Smart teams do not commit a ton of money to RBs  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/23/2023 2:01 pm : link
In comment 16010417 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010386 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


because the chances of getting value back are low. RBs get hurt (unless everyone forgets, Barkley played the majority of this year with a shoulder injury) and the difference between a good RB and a great one are too small in terms of winning to justify the expense.

Barkley knows this, and he knows Schoen definitely knows this. Based on his comments yesterday, he'll take what the Giants are handing out, unless some other team overwhelms their offer.



I hate to keep arguing this but this isn't really true. Define smart? Is Dallas smart? They sure know how to draft and they do win. Philly paid plenty of Rbs over the years, and they likely will pay Sanders when he hits Fa. The niners just traded a bunch of shit for CMC and he gets paid a lot. THE NINERS. Chargers and Ekeler--he gets paid. So many more.

I'm like a broken record and most just either ignore me or say I am nuts. You can do the same but it would be nice if people at least acknowledged that teams do pay the RB. Sure it's a risk...they still pay them.


Austin Ekeler makes $6M a year. It's interesting you mention the Cowboys, who drafted Elliot very high but use Pollard (a 4th round pick) a lot more and he's on his rookie contract. Would I call that smart, no I would not. Who is smart? The Eagles, who's starter is a 2nd rounder on his rookie deal or the Chiefs with McKinnon on a one year deal and Pacheco on his rookie deal. On and on. The 9ers bought a Ferrari after they built the rest of the roster. Good for them. Most teams can't afford it, or would be better off devoting those resources elsewhere.
RE: Schoen needs to show more patience with drafting  
RCPhoenix : 1/23/2023 2:01 pm : link
In comment 16010495 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Evaluating talent is hit or miss, regardless of who your evaluators are.

He took Ezeudu and WanDale early and really got almost zero production from them.

WanDale did flash but the reason he was projected in the third round is that his diminutive stature and style of play suggests he will be injury prone. Just like KT.

Sometimes you have to wait on a guy and see if he drops. That allows you to draft someone who might not project as high but is going to give you more production overall.

I still like a lot of the guys Giants drafted but other than KT they did not really get production out of any of the picks. And even KT flashed more than he provided overall production.


Just because someone gets injured doesn't mean they are injury prone. Wandale was coming on and then got injured, and Ezeudu was a rookie OL. I don't see a torn ACL as being indicative of someone who is injury prone. It means MetLife's surface needs to be replaced.

In terms of production, they got good production from Bellinger, and some contributions from Flott and Belton. If there was one player who underperformed it was McFadden. KT had pretty decent production. Yes, Neal was a work in progress but switching from LT to RT is not as easy as everyone seems to think it is.

The other draft picks were injured (torn ACLs) and missed the entire season.

The main point I took away from the rookie class is that Schoen needs to change the playing surface at MetLife. Other teams play in indoor stadiums with many less injuries. Clearly that says something.
The non-exclusive tag should be plenty for Jones  
JonC : 1/23/2023 2:03 pm : link
the key is the two #1 picks and having right of refusal should another team sign him. I would still want to see more from Jones with upgrades around him before committing to a market dollars multi-year deal.
RE: The non-exclusive tag should be plenty for Jones  
christian : 1/23/2023 2:11 pm : link
In comment 16010521 JonC said:
Quote:
the key is the two #1 picks and having right of refusal should another team sign him. I would still want to see more from Jones with upgrades around him before committing to a market dollars multi-year deal.


This is the right answer, and I hope frankly contract talks stall and this is the outcome.

It's a super 5th year option (~31.5M vs ~23M).

This is classic trust but verify operating procedure stuff. If Schoen holds his line here, I am very impressed.

If I were a GM, I'd commission a sign for my office: "No 100M dollar mistakes."
the only risk with the non-exclusive tag is in the future  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 2:13 pm : link
next year if they decide they want to extend they'd be in a situation where they'd have to tag him at like 45m and that's your starting point for AAV.

Lamar, Hurts, Burrow, Herbert could all be extended at 50m+ plus by then. if Jones has another season better than Kyler, instead of his price being below Kyler's 46m as it probably is now it probably jumps up above.

im not saying that as a reason to rush into a deal more than they think he's worth, i've expected a tag since midseason. just as a warning bc in some ways it would be like declining the 5yo again. if the nyg really like him it would be better to get him on what is essentially a 3 year deal with options for years 4/5 right now than going year to year which will be 10-25% more expensive in cap hits after this year.
Please with his first year effort  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/23/2023 2:13 pm : link
First time at being in the big seat and I thought he handled things well. Seems the type who will grow from here from the experience. Big hope is he does a better job finishing the OL to a much higher level than what they had in the Bills and a defense that can play in the playoffs and handle the better teams that can run the ball.

His experience in the NFCE hopefully taught him its a bit different here in the NFCE and you better have the outstanding fronts to be in contention.

It should go without saying  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 2:14 pm : link
That a team like SF can take a swing with CMC because of the incredible fit with their offense and how complete that roster is.

It's still a risk. But because they did an excellent job of building that roster, they earned the right to that luxury.
Meant  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/23/2023 2:15 pm : link
pleased
christian  
JonC : 1/23/2023 2:15 pm : link
yessir, the giant cap-hit will mean making more tough decisions for 2023, but I suspect they know what they have right now and half the roster could turn over during the next few months. Change is coming fast and they wouldn't be able to (or want) to retain everyone.

RE: RE: The non-exclusive tag should be plenty for Jones  
AcidTest : 1/23/2023 2:15 pm : link
In comment 16010540 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16010521 JonC said:


Quote:


the key is the two #1 picks and having right of refusal should another team sign him. I would still want to see more from Jones with upgrades around him before committing to a market dollars multi-year deal.



This is the right answer, and I hope frankly contract talks stall and this is the outcome.

It's a super 5th year option (~31.5M vs ~23M).

This is classic trust but verify operating procedure stuff. If Schoen holds his line here, I am very impressed.

If I were a GM, I'd commission a sign for my office: "No 100M dollar mistakes."


+2.
RE: the only risk with the non-exclusive tag is in the future  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 2:16 pm : link
In comment 16010542 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
next year if they decide they want to extend they'd be in a situation where they'd have to tag him at like 45m and that's your starting point for AAV.

Lamar, Hurts, Burrow, Herbert could all be extended at 50m+ plus by then. if Jones has another season better than Kyler, instead of his price being below Kyler's 46m as it probably is now it probably jumps up above.

im not saying that as a reason to rush into a deal more than they think he's worth, i've expected a tag since midseason. just as a warning bc in some ways it would be like declining the 5yo again. if the nyg really like him it would be better to get him on what is essentially a 3 year deal with options for years 4/5 right now than going year to year which will be 10-25% more expensive in cap hits after this year.


If Jones has a breakout year next season that truly establishes him as a franchise QB, they will probably not mind very much paying market rate. That's a risk, but if they 'lose', they still win.
And, they figure to have the cap space in 2024  
JonC : 1/23/2023 2:18 pm : link
to punt the decision one more year.
I found it far more interesting the words used on discussing Barkley  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 2:22 pm : link
Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.
Contrary to what we had been recently hearing...  
The Mike : 1/23/2023 2:23 pm : link
...it sounds like the big multi-year DJ contract may not be happening. Schoen appears to be approaching the off season instead with the level headed restraint necessary to improve this roster. Very glad to hear this and assume he will use the non-exclusive franchise tag if they can't come to terms on a modest contract. After the Eagles game, the exclusive franchise tag should be off the table. And while it is highly doubtful that anyone will give us two first round picks on top of a significant pay day for DJ, if they do, we wish DJ well and move on.

Unfortunately, as a result of using the tag on DJ, there is a very good chance Barkley will not be signed. I cannot see Schoen signing him to a Zeke Elliott contract and there is no way Barkley should accept anything less given his injury history and his limited opportunity to get paid at this point in his career. Barkley is simply more valuable to a team with a loaded roster just missing an elite running back like the Bills. I have heard the sound byte by Saquon indicating he will be reasonable in terms of a contract, but he will seek the best contract he can get in free agency.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 2:25 pm : link
In comment 16010499 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 16010331 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 16010312 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
13m
Joe Schoen: "You shop hungry, you overpay."







If they give Jones $40M/yr they're shopping hungry. It will be the worst contract in the history of the NFL and it will go right around Schoen's neck.


I mean they aren't going to do that.

1. Fair market long term deal

2. Non Exclusive Tag to either recoup picks/save money or make sure his improvements continue before a long term commitment

3. Exclusive Tag if they are extremely bullish on him and feel he can be a surefire top 10 quarterback but want to see another year of production before long term commitment


I got the sense from Schoen  
Sean : 1/23/2023 2:25 pm : link
That Jones is going to be back and they’ll use the non exclusive franchise tag if they need to. They both referenced the business side, I’m not so sure they come to a long term agreement. I think Team Jones has a number as does Schoen. Team Jones will want the value of the tag over 3-4 years and I just don’t think this regime is there with him.

All of this makes the Barkley negotiation much more challenging without the tag. I think there is a solid chance Barkley walks. He’s not getting CMC money nor should he.
RE: RE: the only risk with the non-exclusive tag is in the future  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16010548 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16010542 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


next year if they decide they want to extend they'd be in a situation where they'd have to tag him at like 45m and that's your starting point for AAV.

Lamar, Hurts, Burrow, Herbert could all be extended at 50m+ plus by then. if Jones has another season better than Kyler, instead of his price being below Kyler's 46m as it probably is now it probably jumps up above.

im not saying that as a reason to rush into a deal more than they think he's worth, i've expected a tag since midseason. just as a warning bc in some ways it would be like declining the 5yo again. if the nyg really like him it would be better to get him on what is essentially a 3 year deal with options for years 4/5 right now than going year to year which will be 10-25% more expensive in cap hits after this year.



If Jones has a breakout year next season that truly establishes him as a franchise QB, they will probably not mind very much paying market rate. That's a risk, but if they 'lose', they still win.


it is but it's also the exact same logic that declined the 5yo last year - which i thought was the right call bc just as your logic follows i didn't mind paying 9m more if jones had a good year. so even though they may pay 9m more they did get something out of it, a good year, while hedging against a bad one. but most complained about the tag being an overpayment and some probably still do even though that's the minimum he's going to make this year whether it's with the nyg or someone else.

jones contract is probably the last thing anyone needs to worry about because at this point it seems pretty likely he's going to be here and it's clear we have a good group making the decision off a lot of good firsthand evaluation. it's going to be a big # no matter what because all starting QBs are so wherever they net out they net out whether it's the tag or an extension. its going to be a hard negotiation because in some ways jones' leverage grows by playing on the tag this year and getting 1 year closer to true UFA as opposed to rushing into an extension that could be under market quickly.
Eric on LI and TTH  
GiantGrit : 1/23/2023 2:32 pm : link
Good points.
RE: I found it far more interesting the words used on discussing Barkley  
DieHard : 1/23/2023 2:34 pm : link
In comment 16010560 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.


I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.

I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.
RE: RE: I found it far more interesting the words used on discussing Barkley  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/23/2023 2:42 pm : link
In comment 16010578 DieHard said:
Quote:
In comment 16010560 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.



I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.

I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.


Agree. Outstanding OL's can support multiple backs. Giants used to be like that. Then they couldn't. The major culprit was not the backs but the OL.

SB does offer some unique skills. He could go on to never face the injury bug again but.....
RE: Schoen needs to show more patience with drafting  
Gruber : 1/23/2023 2:43 pm : link
In comment 16010495 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Evaluating talent is hit or miss, regardless of who your evaluators are.

He took Ezeudu and WanDale early and really got almost zero production from them.

WanDale did flash but the reason he was projected in the third round is that his diminutive stature and style of play suggests he will be injury prone. Just like KT.

Sometimes you have to wait on a guy and see if he drops. That allows you to draft someone who might not project as high but is going to give you more production overall.

I still like a lot of the guys Giants drafted but other than KT they did not really get production out of any of the picks. And even KT flashed more than he provided overall production.


This post is wrong on so many different levels. I can't be a***d to get into an argument. I would point out that it contains neither the word "coaching" nor "development."
People on here reacting to Schoen's remarks  
Gruber : 1/23/2023 2:46 pm : link
about Saquon by commenting on is production are I feel missing the point.
It's a structural matter: paying top dollar for a running back is just not worth it, unless you are Christian McCaffrey. Schoen is looking for value for money, including by position.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 2:46 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
1h
My takeaways on Joe Schoen's presser. More later on
@northjersey
:

Daniel Jones will get extension

Dexter Lawrence will get extension

Giants have a number they are willing to pay Saquon Barkley and could use franchise tag to make sure he's back for 2023
so can we all put this "package deal"...  
BillKo : 1/23/2023 2:46 pm : link
....nonsense to rest?

Never made sense in the first place. It got some steam after the playoff win where people have their judgment clouded.
I dont think its going to be DJ's side driving up the price  
Dinger : 1/23/2023 2:47 pm : link
It will be the likes of the Jets who've flopped on two 1st round top 10 picks, the Panthers and Commanders who've tried to half ass it in FA, the Colts who have a cokehead behind the wheel and even the a team like the Falcons or Seahawks who may take a chance at a legit starting QB without the 'rolling of the dice' in the draft. In my heart I want Barkley back because besides being one of the talented playmakers on the team and league, he seems like a genuinely nice guy who works his ass off and is about team first. I'm not in the camp that has Hodgins as a must resign. Hes a better option at WR3 than Slayton. I think signing Love is important but we aren't at a point where we can break the bank for any player as we aren't one player away. After watching the Eagles disassemble us, I am now more of the opinion than ever of building the lines MORE. Depth at DL as well as another Edge (AO can't get on the field). Upgrade the talent at IOL(I think we have depth pieces in Gates Brederson and perhaps Lemieux as well as). I am looking forward to Beavers coming back, but my wish list has a stud ILB in the top three spots of needs. Add CB and we really dont have a position we don't need to fill this offseason.....
RE: People on here reacting to Schoen's remarks  
BillKo : 1/23/2023 2:48 pm : link
In comment 16010599 Gruber said:
Quote:
about Saquon by commenting on is production are I feel missing the point.
It's a structural matter: paying top dollar for a running back is just not worth it, unless you are Christian McCaffrey. Schoen is looking for value for money, including by position.


What is McCaffrey, the gold standard? lol
Barkley sounds like he wants to play hardball  
MeanBunny : 1/23/2023 2:52 pm : link
And there are some teams that could use him to stabilize the offense. THE BILLS come to mind as Allen was throwing all the time and terrible
The contrary view  
HomerJones45 : 1/23/2023 2:52 pm : link
you do the deal with Barkley who doesn't have that much mileage on him at his age and is a top 5 back. If you have Barkley, you can get a game manager at qb. Jones is just not that great a passer to justify some of the numbers thrown around.
Jones knows its in his best interest to work with Dabs  
MeanBunny : 1/23/2023 2:54 pm : link
Saquon has an inflated sense of self worth and maybe he is sick of the shit O-Line, NYC and wants to get Payday with another team
I suspect there will  
.McL. : 1/23/2023 2:55 pm : link
be a bunch of posters here feeling butthurt when Barkley walks, which I think is more likely than not at this point.
RE: RE: RE: You have to take the fandom  
islander1 : 1/23/2023 3:14 pm : link
In comment 16010500 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010374 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.

Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.

When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.



You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.

Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?



He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.

Interesting comparison:

259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc

vs

295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc

The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.


You're implying Saquon couldn't do better in Philly?

because that's silly.
i like barkley well enough, and i'm not saying he is soft, but  
japanhead : 1/23/2023 3:15 pm : link
even this season where he played a full slate of games, he had the shoulder, and after the houston game his production fell off a cliff for a month+.

he was better in a blitz pickup and finishing runs with power rather than juking around all the time-- but he's just not built to take a pounding.

...  
christian : 1/23/2023 3:16 pm : link
It's very easy to back into.

Barkley says he doesn't expect to reset the market, and Schoen says they weren't close at the bye.

Schoen's number is not close to the top of the market.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You have to take the fandom  
.McL. : 1/23/2023 3:16 pm : link
In comment 16010656 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010500 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


In comment 16010374 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:



Interesting comparison:

259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc

vs

295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc

The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.



You're implying Saquon couldn't do better in Philly?

because that's silly.

I think you missed the point...
The point is a good OL can make a lesser back just as effective, while also making your QB in the passing game more effective.
RE: RE: RE: You have to take the fandom  
BigBlue7 : 1/23/2023 3:16 pm : link
In comment 16010500 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010374 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.

Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.

When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.



You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.

Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?



He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.

Interesting comparison:

259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc

vs

295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc

The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.


Put Miles Sanders on our team for 2022 and Barkley on the Eagles and you think those numbers are similar?

If so, you are out of your fucking mind
RE: RE: main thing is that I trust Schoen to set a value for each player  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/23/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16010341 Costy16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16010317 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


and stick to it. You can't overpay because it kills your cap down the road. I like Williams and hope they work something out and he stays, but I would understand if they traded him to a team that's closer to the SB that needs a stalwart DT for picks this year. I like Love, but if someone throws silly $$ at him let him go and trot Pinnock out there and draft another S. Hodgins is the only WR I'd hate to see go. He would be really good as a possession type. Slayton and James are replaceable, Shep is a good guy but enough already.



I like LW but that contract is hefty. They have Lawrence (who is due a contract) and they can grab a DT in the draft if they want to have a cost-controlled piece on the DL.


You can’t just grab a guy in the draft and expect someone like LW. You can draft a DT, but you are almost assured that he will not be on the level of LW.

I would strongly prefer extending LW to lower his cap hit and keep him under contract. He was playing hurt this year and was still a force. He is the kind of player you keep in the building.
RE: It should go without saying  
jpennyva : 1/23/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16010544 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That a team like SF can take a swing with CMC because of the incredible fit with their offense and how complete that roster is.

It's still a risk. But because they did an excellent job of building that roster, they earned the right to that luxury.


Exactly! I don't think SF is the #2 seed without CMC. Probably still in the playoffs as they are well built on offense and defense but I do think he has been a huge difference on that team and was a really smart get, especially given their QB situation.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You have to take the fandom  
DefenseWins : 1/23/2023 3:19 pm : link
In comment 16010662 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:

Put Miles Sanders on our team for 2022 and Barkley on the Eagles and you think those numbers are similar?

If so, you are out of your fucking mind


Agreed... I think it is worth noting what Barkley's production has been on a per-touch basis with a crap OL
We can’t pay everyone  
beatrixkiddo : 1/23/2023 3:22 pm : link
There will be some tough calls that need to be made. For me I think the wise choice is to move on from Barkley and let Love get a contract elsewhere. Both are such great leaders and it sucks to lose both, but it’s never wise to pay RBs with injury histories into second contracts. And for Love I think it’s just a numbers game, McKinney is the guy you need to resign and you can’t a lot a ton of money to two Safeties. Hope Belton can grow into a starter roll and get some more depth to play along with this unit.and I don’t think Love will be missed as much as many think (I’m a huge Love fan and really wish we could keep him but it is a business and the cap dictates that we need to prioritize re-signing key other guys).

Thomas and Dex should be priority to lock up long term, then McKinney. Extend Williams if you have to, I hope he finishes his career here. Hopefully they can come to terms on a 3 year deal with Jones, should be able to put some performance incentives in to get something done, but he can’t cripple our cash flow to go and add improvements to this roster, which we have to find some good vets and fill in and hit on our draft picks. This team still has depth issues across the board, so no more Nate Soldier or Kenny G contracts for the foreseeable future, lock up your homegrown studs at key positions.

I wouldnt franchise tag Jones at the Exclusive  
blueblood : 1/23/2023 3:23 pm : link
tag him at the non exclusive. If he thinks he can get a better deal AND that team will give up two #1 picks..


Bye Bye.
islander1, bigblue7, DefenseWins  
.McL. : 1/23/2023 3:24 pm : link
You guys are missing the point.

It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.

Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
I'm not surprised Jones is coming back,  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/23/2023 3:25 pm : link
but I'm alittle surprised how transparent Schoen is about Jones coming back. That's fine by me. Never really thought there was another option as Jones started playing better.
RE: RE: I found it far more interesting the words used on discussing Barkley  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/23/2023 3:25 pm : link
In comment 16010578 DieHard said:
Quote:
In comment 16010560 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.



I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.

I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.


Ummm… the Niners have CMC
I love Barkley and want him to stay  
Rjanyg : 1/23/2023 3:35 pm : link
but there are a lot of FA RB this year and many of them are pretty good.

Add to this that the NFL draft could bring a RB a lot cheaper.

If he re-signs it will have a lot more to do with than the amount of money and the amount of talent he has, it will have to do with the intangibles like leadership and culture.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/23/2023 3:38 pm : link
Barkley literally said he's realistic and isn't going to want to set some record breaking deal here. If they can work it out, they will. Not sure there's anything else to Schoen's comments other than that. If he leaves for another team, I imagine it will be because they offered some type of absurd deal that he couldn't turn down, and Schoen didn't feel like matching.
Follow actions  
JonC : 1/23/2023 3:40 pm : link
discount words, words are rarely the bottom line.
I don't understand how you say  
Bill in UT : 1/23/2023 3:41 pm : link
your "foundation" is set unless you plan on locking down your top half-dozen players. Unless he's just talking about a "process"
RE: The contrary view  
islander1 : 1/23/2023 3:41 pm : link
In comment 16010615 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
you do the deal with Barkley who doesn't have that much mileage on him at his age and is a top 5 back. If you have Barkley, you can get a game manager at qb. Jones is just not that great a passer to justify some of the numbers thrown around.


This is kinda where I fall on this. I can think of worse places to spend 12-13 million a year on this team.
I think Barkley gets done  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2023 3:42 pm : link
At something close to what Henry and Cook got
RE: RE: RE: I found it far more interesting the words used on discussing Barkley  
DieHard : 1/23/2023 3:43 pm : link
In comment 16010682 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
In comment 16010578 DieHard said:


Quote:


In comment 16010560 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.



I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.

I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.



Ummm… the Niners have CMC


And they ran the ball with great success by committee over the past 3-4 years before CMC showed up. He's a great RB to have, but it's not like they were struggling without him.
Only saw bits and pieces of this live  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/23/2023 3:47 pm : link
Then read the tweets.

Anyone have a link to a full replay?

I don’t see it on the Giants.com site or YT.

Thanks.
RE: Only saw bits and pieces of this live  
DieHard : 1/23/2023 3:53 pm : link
In comment 16010718 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Then read the tweets.

Anyone have a link to a full replay?

I don’t see it on the Giants.com site or YT.

Thanks.


Link just went up on youtube: Full press conference
RE: Barkley sounds like he wants to play hardball  
HomerJones45 : 1/23/2023 4:00 pm : link
In comment 16010613 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
And there are some teams that could use him to stabilize the offense. THE BILLS come to mind as Allen was throwing all the time and terrible
Allen accounted for 42 td's passing and running. Can we be "terrible" like that?

The Bills traded a running back for Hines and went and signed Beasley. What do you think the Bills believed was their weakness? (Hint: it wasn't Allen throwing the ball all the time).
Video of Prsss Conference  
US1 Giants : 1/23/2023 4:17 pm : link
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOEfxm6X9U - ( New Window )
I’d rather keep Love than Barkley  
cosmicj : 1/23/2023 4:33 pm : link
Love is incredibly active and serves as the glue holding the defense together. He will also be cheaper than Barkley, prob around the $10mm AAV range. He needs to be retained.
RE: I’d rather keep Love than Barkley  
US1 Giants : 1/23/2023 4:43 pm : link
In comment 16010804 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Love is incredibly active and serves as the glue holding the defense together. He will also be cheaper than Barkley, prob around the $10mm AAV range. He needs to be retained.


I think the Giants would get a nice comp pick for losing Barley too.
.  
ChrisRick : 1/23/2023 4:48 pm : link
Count me as one who will be disappointed if Barkley is not back, because I have enjoyed rooting for him on the Giants. But, I also won't complain about it because it is a business and the guys in the offices know better than I what is the best for the team.
If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
cosmicj : 1/23/2023 4:50 pm : link
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
ChrisRick : 1/23/2023 4:58 pm : link
In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.


That would ease the sting a bit. If we're going to lose him, might as well get something other than a comp pick.
RE: RE: ...  
NYG07 : 1/23/2023 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16010220 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010071 christian said:


Quote:


Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.

The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.

They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.



This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.

AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.

This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?

If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.


If he keeps what up? 15 touchdown passes a season? If we are paying him like Dak he better be a hell of a lot better than he was was this year. I say that acknowledging he improved a lot this year.

Stop pretending like the cap doesn't matter. QB contracts are out of control. The teams that overpay for mediocrity at the QB position are not serious threats to win the Superbowl.
Paying 10-12 big contracts  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/23/2023 5:17 pm : link
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league


The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.

The Giants currently have 5.

Here's the problem.

Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.

Golladay at 21 is a total flop

Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
RE: Paying 10-12 big contracts  
Payasdaddy : 1/23/2023 5:26 pm : link
In comment 16010870 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league


The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.

The Giants currently have 5.

Here's the problem.

Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.

Golladay at 21 is a total flop

Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.

Schoen is doing his best to eliminate this. Still some overhang going into 23. But not a ton. We can eat up 1/2 the 2024 cap space ( 175 million) backloading guys like AT, Dex and X. Plus signing jones. Saquon and love it depends on money. I like love but X will be getting paid and we can develop a heady safety with average skills from the draft pool or in FA
Backloading a decent amount of 23 deals into 24 will give us enough room in FA to sign 2-3 mid tier guys At positions we need ( ILB, IOL and dline or cb). Draft the best guys out there. If they fit need great. But we just need to add talent. 1/2 draft class coming back from injury should really help depth ( potentially some are starters)
RE: islander1, bigblue7, DefenseWins  
Gruber : 1/23/2023 6:15 pm : link
In comment 16010678 .McL. said:
Quote:
You guys are missing the point.

It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.

Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!


It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
bmgints : 1/23/2023 7:20 pm : link
In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.


A lot people think it’s poor value to pay an RB $10 mil a year so why should a team give a second round pick for the right to negotiate a contract for $10 mil per year, especially with so many free agent RB
RE: RE: islander1, bigblue7, DefenseWins  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 7:24 pm : link
In comment 16010913 Gruber said:
Quote:
In comment 16010678 .McL. said:


Quote:


You guys are missing the point.

It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.

Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!



It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.


which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
The Dude : 1/23/2023 7:36 pm : link
In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.


a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
 
christian : 1/23/2023 7:45 pm : link
I hope the Giants can extend Barkley in 3/35M range with all the guarantees in the first two years. For Schoen to say that weren’t close and Barkley saying he’s not looking to reset the market — that’s my guess on what the Giants offered.
RE: Paying 10-12 big contracts  
The Mike : 1/23/2023 7:47 pm : link
In comment 16010870 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league


The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.

The Giants currently have 5.

Here's the problem.

Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.

Golladay at 21 is a total flop

Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.


Great post. Makes it clear the terrible mess Schoen inherited.
RE: RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
cosmicj : 1/23/2023 9:42 pm : link
In comment 16011015 The Dude said:
Quote:
In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.



a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.


A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
RE: Paying 10-12 big contracts  
cosmicj : 1/23/2023 9:45 pm : link
In comment 16010870 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league


The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.

The Giants currently have 5.

Here's the problem.

Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.

Golladay at 21 is a total flop

Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.


Thanks for doing this research, Ten Ton. The Eagles have a “managed” 2022 cap with a lot of player cap hits soaring in 2023 and 2024. That game Sunday is VERY important to the franchise. Go 9ers.
RE: RE: RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
bmgints : 1/23/2023 9:59 pm : link
In comment 16011145 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 16011015 The Dude said:


Quote:


In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.



a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.



A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.


So instead of paying any other free agent back they give a second rounder and then have to pay Barkley a big contract? Seems a poor allocation of resources since the argument here is we aren’t signing him bc that by itself without also giving up a second rounder is a poor allocation or resources
RE: RE: RE: islander1, bigblue7, DefenseWins  
.McL. : 1/24/2023 12:44 am : link
In comment 16011001 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16010913 Gruber said:


Quote:


In comment 16010678 .McL. said:


Quote:


You guys are missing the point.

It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.

Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!



It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.



which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?

Eric, c'mon you are better than this...
My comment is about the long term strategy of roster construction, it isn't about any player right now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,  
.McL. : 1/24/2023 12:47 am : link
In comment 16011174 bmgints said:
Quote:
In comment 16011145 cosmicj said:


Quote:


In comment 16011015 The Dude said:


Quote:


In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.



a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.



A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.



So instead of paying any other free agent back they give a second rounder and then have to pay Barkley a big contract? Seems a poor allocation of resources since the argument here is we aren’t signing him bc that by itself without also giving up a second rounder is a poor allocation or resources

Hey... Gettleman got to play at being a GM, maybe there is another just like him out there!
RE: RE: RE: RE: islander1, bigblue7, DefenseWins  
Gruber : 1/24/2023 9:37 am : link
In comment 16011279 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 16011001 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16010913 Gruber said:


Quote:


In comment 16010678 .McL. said:


Quote:


You guys are missing the point.

It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.

Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!



It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.



which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?


Eric, c'mon you are better than this...
My comment is about the long term strategy of roster construction, it isn't about any player right now.


Value for money by position. Schoen even mentioned it in passing in the press conference.
The upcoming draft is apparently rich and deep with running backs.
Not trading down at 5 and 7 was a cardinal sin  
HarryCarson53 : 1/24/2023 9:42 am : link
Could've picked up an extra two starters, plus wasting the #2 on a midget was unforgivable. Really, should have three more starters now...
RE: Not trading down at 5 and 7 was a cardinal sin  
section125 : 1/24/2023 9:47 am : link
In comment 16011563 HarryCarson53 said:
Quote:
Could've picked up an extra two starters, plus wasting the #2 on a midget was unforgivable. Really, should have three more starters now...


So pass on Thibodeaux and Neal for what? Two or three lesser players?

I won't disagree about Wan'Dale, but by the end of the year they were running slashing pass routes that Robinson would have been killer in.
Agreed, section.  
ajr2456 : 1/24/2023 9:53 am : link
The routes Richie James excelled in toward the end of the year were the routes they drafted Wandale for. He would have been much more explosive in that role.
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