be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.
Great point Eric. He's had a year to adjust to things. He'd better improve in that regard.
I won't be surprised if the Giants make a major change in direction, whether it's trading a high profile player or not retaining a high profile player.
I can imagine Schoen looking at where his team his vs. where the Eagles are for instance, and coming to two conclusions:
1) We're not there yet
2) It's going to take 2 more off seasons to get there
In agreement for 2 more drafts. I figure around 8-10 solid contributors short.
That doesn’t happen in one draft
It’s how u build long term contenders. The difference between hitting on3 draft
picks vs 5 draft picks every yr is huge in the long term.
teams salary cap situations are publicly reported every day. schoen's comment last year was obvious. that was the minimum they needed just to fill the roster.
i hope he remains just as candid as he did last year, it was refreshing. comments he makes dont matter nearly as much as the realities of situations he deals with.
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
.
There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?
It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.
I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.
What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
great line/delivery by schoen about williams commenting on the paycut
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
Also, you might want to clarify that this was your take and not Schoen's take. I can't imagine the GM just said that but I think some here think that is the case.
Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?
Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.
Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still
Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).
I feel like the plan is to get a guy who has all the physical tools and coach him up. This is what they did with Allen, who was criticized as a reach when he was picked because he played at a small school and was inaccurate. I don't think its a coincidence Allen has seemed to regress this year with Daboll gone.
Don't be surprised if they move up slightly to take a raw QB with size and wheels who they can coach in their system.
Yeah, and that guy went at No. 7. Hardly a "take a chance on coaching him up" pick. Without the "accuracy issues", he would have gone no. 1. PFF said in their review after the draft Allen was an elite signal caller. And they gave the Bills an A+ grade and said it would have been A+ regardless of who they took after Allen.
The "accuracy issues" pundits cited were based largely on his completion percentage of 56 his two years as a starter at Wyoming. How many of those pundits actually saw him play. How many sat through games in the type of weather he often played in? There can be a lot of reasons for that percentage, and "accuracy" doesn't even have to be a main one. How many receivers did he play with at Wyoming who got drafted? Exactly zero. Jones, who also played with substandard receivers in college, has had better completion percentage numbers every year in the NFL than he did in college. And that's still with less than average receivers.
By all accounts Allen outperformed Mayfield on and off the field all week at the senior bowl. Maybe it's time fans realize the "draft experts" aren't experts at all. The draft "experts" loved Darnold. Most said Jackson wouldn't be a good QB. Walker Football had the 2017 group ranked Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Rosen and Jackson.
Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?
Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.
Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still
Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).
One more--Dak is killing Dallas? Ok...we're talking about them losing in the playoffs. What was the altnarrive to signing Dak and can you guarantee me that Dallas is playing next sunday if instead of signing Dak they did something else?
I am getting tired of arguing these takes that never prove anything and overstate certain issues.
Dallas goes to the playoffs almost every year or every year Dak is healthy. Yes, he can't get them to the super bowl. But who can? Where is that guy? How can you prove that Dallas is BETTER today if they didn't pay Dak? We're talking a HUGE leap here from losing to winning yesterday based on ONE complex move, that being not signing Dak and drafting his replacement. What if Dallas is WORSE? I guess we don't consider that distinct possibilty.
Don't tell me Dallas is clearly better if they don't sign Dak. You can't prove this and honedtly, it's a stretch to suggest it. Is it possible? Sure. And it's unlikely.
Would Dallas be better off heading into 2023 without Dak and all that money? Maybe. Maybe they still can find that FA QB and dump Dak anyway. WHo is that QB? BRady? Doubtful. Carr? PLease. Rodgers? lol ok sure.
It's not that simple but so many here make it sound like it is just that.
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
i just dont think Schoen values RB like Saquon would force him to. I expect they re-sign Jones and move on from Saquon.
They have some money and some base pieces. LW will be an interesting, situation. says he wants to play with dex, but I don't see him giving up his 32 mil.
Yeah, meanwhile, man I can't see paying him 32 million dollars. I saw his dead cap hit is 20 million, so it's brutal either way. Thanks, Dave. The 'gift' that keeps giving.
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
.
There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?
It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.
I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.
What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
Who said WIN NOW? Who said go crazy like a drunken sailor. I didn't. I said don't kick guys like Barkley and Jones to the curb.
Can we keep the discussion centered and not try and twist words and takes into some extreme nonsense? Every time I say stop fearing the money and cap so much, but RESPECT the process, you guys come at me and act mike I don't know NFL economics. Trust me I know.
Who the hell said go all in at the trade deadline? I said to go after a good WR if he was available for the right price.
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
22m
Schoen said the culture-building enabled the team's fast start on the field. The playoff experience will allow them to build moving forward.
and patience with the money. It's now going to pay off this offseason. The roster is going to be fortified and we should see the talent gap close next season.
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
So you're telling me right now if NEal develops into a solid starter and we add one very good center or guard in FA and do the same on defense, let's say add a very good LB. Then we draft a WR in round 1 or 2---that team isn't a lot better next season?
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
BUILD this team up around the stars we already possess. Why the hell are we going to move guys out thqat we know can play and are under 26 year old? So we can try and find those guys all over again? Why?
Even if Jones has a ceiling, he can play. Worry about that ceiling when the time comes 3-4 years from now. LEt's sustain some winning first and knock on the door more than once. Build around Jones and Barkley. Help them get better as much as they helped the Giants win this season despite little to no help other than Thomas.
Eagles had three Pro Bowlers on the OL.
I know, popularity contest, but the talent level across all facets was much higher.
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
22m
Schoen: "We'd like Daniel [Jones] to be here." There's a business side to it, but they haven't gone down that road yet. "We just continued to evaluate him throughout the season." He continued to improve and they're pleased with how he played.
we are virtually paying NO ONE. Galloday, Jackson, Williams..who else? And Gall is done here with money coming off the next 1-2 years.
So by paying our star RB who is 3 years removed and our dual threat QB who is 26 we're going all in like fools? No, we're keeping the young core intact.
The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
22m
I asked Schoen about Barkley—“I would like to have him back but we have to work with salary cap rules. Need to step back and take emotions out of it and see if it works for both of us”
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
21m
Joe Schoen says Giants have not discussed any timetables for contract negotiations. Staff meetings on personnel side on Thursday.
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
22m
Joe Schoen: "I wouldn't say we overachieved." They built a roster that had a lot of "teammates" and not just players.
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
22m
Schoen declines to answer if they want Daniel back on a long-term or short-term deal. Said they have to go through differnt scenrios and discuss with Daniel's side.
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
21m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he ideally wants to sign Jones to a long-term contract, says "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." Says it will be a negotiation and conversation. Giants will begin to get into those decisions and scenarios Thursday
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
21m
Joe Schoen jokes (half-jokes) that he liked hearing Leonard Williams say he would be willing to take a paycut. Says whoever asked him that question did a great job
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
If the Giants pay Jones like Dak and all he ends up being is Dak, the Giants made a huge mistake.
I disagree, and it's stupid to compare the two because they aren't the same guy.
HUGE mistake paying a good QB? Try again. Paying Galladay was a huge mistake. Cmon.
Fear of spending money. It's out of hand lately. Not every overpay means there was a better slam dunk alternative on the other side. You pay and then you pray. Welcome to the NFL. If you don't pay a good player because you fear that ONE player can't win a super bowl then you don't pay him. How the fuck can anyone predict that? You can't. So stop.
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
.
There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?
It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.
I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.
What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
Don't bother.
djm has argued for years that the cap is immaterial and has no impact on roster construction.
No rational argument has ever changed his mind in the past. I see no reason why it would be any different now.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
18m
#Giants Schoen - a WR1 is really important but he wont guarantee you win...many WR1s are were home for playoffs...it is important to build the team.
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.
Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
18m
The Giants reiterated they were happy with everything Saquon Barkley gave them this season. As for the previous negotiations during bye week:
“That time of the year we weren’t really that close,” Schoen said.
They hope to find something that works for both sides this offseason
The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
18m
Schoen says like most rookie classes they had ups and downs
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
18m
#Giants Schoen - got lot of contributions from the rookies, even with injuries..some of them will compete as starters next year and others will be be really good depth
#Giants Schoen - will also have to talk about how to handle dexter lawrence's 5th yr option
#Giants Schoen - team has known commodities who are in-house....good players from that group are the priority
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
16m
Schoen said Dexter Lawrence has done enough to earn a second contract. Said they will discuss how they want to apporach that since he's under contract for 2023 on his option year.
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
16m
Schoen favors re-signing those players who fit the program. Said they're known commodities and adds they'll be the priority first.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
15m
#Giants Schoen - wanted to see progress...saw it thru the season..personnel dept did great job with waivers/signings/pr squad
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
15m
Joe Schoen doesn't believe that you're ever "one player away."
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.
Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.
Quote:
be interesting to see if Schoen is more guarded with his comments this time. Last year, he let it slip that he was specifically looking to cut $40 million in cap space. That sort of telegraphed his plans to agents and the media. I suspect he won't make the same mistake.
Great point Eric. He's had a year to adjust to things. He'd better improve in that regard.
Total bollocks. Both of you.
I can imagine Schoen looking at where his team his vs. where the Eagles are for instance, and coming to two conclusions:
1) We're not there yet
2) It's going to take 2 more off seasons to get there
In agreement for 2 more drafts. I figure around 8-10 solid contributors short.
That doesn’t happen in one draft
It’s how u build long term contenders. The difference between hitting on3 draft
picks vs 5 draft picks every yr is huge in the long term.
i hope he remains just as candid as he did last year, it was refreshing. comments he makes dont matter nearly as much as the realities of situations he deals with.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
.
There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?
It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.
I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.
What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
Also, you might want to clarify that this was your take and not Schoen's take. I can't imagine the GM just said that but I think some here think that is the case.
Quote:
In comment 16010030 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:
Quote:
Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?
Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.
Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still
Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).
I feel like the plan is to get a guy who has all the physical tools and coach him up. This is what they did with Allen, who was criticized as a reach when he was picked because he played at a small school and was inaccurate. I don't think its a coincidence Allen has seemed to regress this year with Daboll gone.
Don't be surprised if they move up slightly to take a raw QB with size and wheels who they can coach in their system.
Yeah, and that guy went at No. 7. Hardly a "take a chance on coaching him up" pick. Without the "accuracy issues", he would have gone no. 1. PFF said in their review after the draft Allen was an elite signal caller. And they gave the Bills an A+ grade and said it would have been A+ regardless of who they took after Allen.
The "accuracy issues" pundits cited were based largely on his completion percentage of 56 his two years as a starter at Wyoming. How many of those pundits actually saw him play. How many sat through games in the type of weather he often played in? There can be a lot of reasons for that percentage, and "accuracy" doesn't even have to be a main one. How many receivers did he play with at Wyoming who got drafted? Exactly zero. Jones, who also played with substandard receivers in college, has had better completion percentage numbers every year in the NFL than he did in college. And that's still with less than average receivers.
By all accounts Allen outperformed Mayfield on and off the field all week at the senior bowl. Maybe it's time fans realize the "draft experts" aren't experts at all. The draft "experts" loved Darnold. Most said Jackson wouldn't be a good QB. Walker Football had the 2017 group ranked Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Rosen and Jackson.
I just said this to my buddy, asking "when exactly did you decide Jones was the guy?" was one example of a moronic question.
Quote:
In comment 16009990 Costy16 said:
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Is a monumental decision, they aren't in a position to draft a QB. Jones has dealt with alot of staff turnover since being drafted by the Giants. The roster still needs alot of work, he is going to want to get paid. If the price is too high, what is the plan B?
Nonsense. Hurts was a second round pick and Prescott was a 4th round pick. Pickett went 20th in the first round and was 5-1 down the stretch. Ridder was a 3rd round pick and is now the starter in Atl after going 2-2 down the stretch with that shit team. They are out there- you just have to scout them.
Dak is exactly what we can't do, his contract/performance is killing the Cowboys.
Pickett shows potential, but then again he is a #1 pick
Ridder is a complete rookie who played a whopping 4 games, and struggled. He is not an indication of anything right now
Hurts is your best argument, but my opinion is any QB would look good in that offense right now, even a Tyrod or a Baker. I am not sold on Hurts, the only saving grace for him is he is on a rookie contract still
Finding QBs who are worth paying is a hard thing, and somewhat of a crap shoot. For every Allen there is a Baker, Rosen, and Darnold (to use 2018 as one example).
One more--Dak is killing Dallas? Ok...we're talking about them losing in the playoffs. What was the altnarrive to signing Dak and can you guarantee me that Dallas is playing next sunday if instead of signing Dak they did something else?
I am getting tired of arguing these takes that never prove anything and overstate certain issues.
Dallas goes to the playoffs almost every year or every year Dak is healthy. Yes, he can't get them to the super bowl. But who can? Where is that guy? How can you prove that Dallas is BETTER today if they didn't pay Dak? We're talking a HUGE leap here from losing to winning yesterday based on ONE complex move, that being not signing Dak and drafting his replacement. What if Dallas is WORSE? I guess we don't consider that distinct possibilty.
Don't tell me Dallas is clearly better if they don't sign Dak. You can't prove this and honedtly, it's a stretch to suggest it. Is it possible? Sure. And it's unlikely.
Would Dallas be better off heading into 2023 without Dak and all that money? Maybe. Maybe they still can find that FA QB and dump Dak anyway. WHo is that QB? BRady? Doubtful. Carr? PLease. Rodgers? lol ok sure.
It's not that simple but so many here make it sound like it is just that.
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Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
i just dont think Schoen values RB like Saquon would force him to. I expect they re-sign Jones and move on from Saquon.
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They have some money and some base pieces. LW will be an interesting, situation. says he wants to play with dex, but I don't see him giving up his 32 mil.
Yeah, meanwhile, man I can't see paying him 32 million dollars. I saw his dead cap hit is 20 million, so it's brutal either way. Thanks, Dave. The 'gift' that keeps giving.
Hideous. He is so grossly overpaid
They could have kept pushing the can down the road like they have done for years.
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In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:
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Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
.
There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?
It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.
I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.
What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
Who said WIN NOW? Who said go crazy like a drunken sailor. I didn't. I said don't kick guys like Barkley and Jones to the curb.
Can we keep the discussion centered and not try and twist words and takes into some extreme nonsense? Every time I say stop fearing the money and cap so much, but RESPECT the process, you guys come at me and act mike I don't know NFL economics. Trust me I know.
Who the hell said go all in at the trade deadline? I said to go after a good WR if he was available for the right price.
@rydunleavy
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22m
Joe Schoen calls it ‘a good season.’ #Giants like understating
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
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21m
Joe Schoen: "The foundation has been set."
@PLeonardNYDN
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22m
Joe Schoen: “There’s tremendous energy in the building right now.”
Thanks the Mara and Tisch families for providing the resources for building the best team they could in 2022
“The foundation has been set.”
@Dan_Salomone
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22m
Schoen said the culture-building enabled the team's fast start on the field. The playoff experience will allow them to build moving forward.
@charlottecrrll
Joe Schoen: “We’d like Daniel (Jones) to be here”
@DDuggan21
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22m
Joe Schoen right out of the gates: Says he wants Daniel Jones to be here. He acknowledges the “business side to it.”
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
So you're telling me right now if NEal develops into a solid starter and we add one very good center or guard in FA and do the same on defense, let's say add a very good LB. Then we draft a WR in round 1 or 2---that team isn't a lot better next season?
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
BUILD this team up around the stars we already possess. Why the hell are we going to move guys out thqat we know can play and are under 26 year old? So we can try and find those guys all over again? Why?
Even if Jones has a ceiling, he can play. Worry about that ceiling when the time comes 3-4 years from now. LEt's sustain some winning first and knock on the door more than once. Build around Jones and Barkley. Help them get better as much as they helped the Giants win this season despite little to no help other than Thomas.
Eagles had three Pro Bowlers on the OL.
I know, popularity contest, but the talent level across all facets was much higher.
@Dan_Salomone
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22m
Schoen: "We'd like Daniel [Jones] to be here." There's a business side to it, but they haven't gone down that road yet. "We just continued to evaluate him throughout the season." He continued to improve and they're pleased with how he played.
@art_stapleton
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22m
Joe Schoen: "Saquon's a good player, a great teammate ... he's a guy we'd like to have back."
#Giants
"We would like to have Saquon back if it works out."
So by paying our star RB who is 3 years removed and our dual threat QB who is 26 we're going all in like fools? No, we're keeping the young core intact.
Team building.
He says there’s a “business side” to it and “we haven’t gone down that road yet,” but he is their QB.
Would mean the asshat information that they were close to a deal was wrong, if this is true.
@GiantInsider
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22m
I asked Schoen about Barkley—“I would like to have him back but we have to work with salary cap rules. Need to step back and take emotions out of it and see if it works for both of us”
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
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21m
Joe Schoen says Giants have not discussed any timetables for contract negotiations. Staff meetings on personnel side on Thursday.
@Dan_Salomone
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22m
Joe Schoen: "I wouldn't say we overachieved." They built a roster that had a lot of "teammates" and not just players.
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
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22m
Schoen declines to answer if they want Daniel back on a long-term or short-term deal. Said they have to go through differnt scenrios and discuss with Daniel's side.
@PLeonardNYDN
·
21m
Giants GM Joe Schoen, asked if he ideally wants to sign Jones to a long-term contract, says "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." Says it will be a negotiation and conversation. Giants will begin to get into those decisions and scenarios Thursday
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
21m
Joe Schoen jokes (half-jokes) that he liked hearing Leonard Williams say he would be willing to take a paycut. Says whoever asked him that question did a great job
Quote:
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
I disagree, and it's stupid to compare the two because they aren't the same guy.
HUGE mistake paying a good QB? Try again. Paying Galladay was a huge mistake. Cmon.
Fear of spending money. It's out of hand lately. Not every overpay means there was a better slam dunk alternative on the other side. You pay and then you pray. Welcome to the NFL. If you don't pay a good player because you fear that ONE player can't win a super bowl then you don't pay him. How the fuck can anyone predict that? You can't. So stop.
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In comment 16009811 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Most important offseason in recent history of Giants.
Cannot overpay for any of these free agent players on a roster that is still in rebuild mode.
There is still a huge talent gap across the roster in comparison to Eagles and Cowboys.
Don’t be fooled by this years surprising success. We are not 1 or 2 players away from being on their level.
We are not in rebuild move. We were in 2020-21. Not anymore unless you want to punt this team into the sun and start over again. Why. If there was no cap you wouldn't even think of doing that. Think that way now.
.
There is a cap. What do you get from thinking that there isn't one?
It's been a number of times they could have pushed their chips in on the season and they didn't.
I'm glad there are cool heads at the steering wheel. They didn't reach at the trade deadline and they seem to have a handle on who they are roster-wise.
What is the justification for a 'win now' mindset? It can't be the 1-4-1 2022 division record.
Don't bother.
djm has argued for years that the cap is immaterial and has no impact on roster construction.
No rational argument has ever changed his mind in the past. I see no reason why it would be any different now.
Got the same read Essex.
@rydunleavy
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21m
Brian Daboll: Just because you won one year doesn’t guarantee you anything next year #giants
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
20m
Joe Schoen: "We're still building this thing so we can sustain it."
@Patricia_Traina
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19m
Schoen said the process all boils down to how they want to divy up the resources they have moving forward.
The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
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19m
Schoen says they weren’t close numbers wise with Barkley during bye week talks
@giantswfan
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18m
#Giants Schoen - a WR1 is really important but he wont guarantee you win...many WR1s are were home for playoffs...it is important to build the team.
Looks like he's getting tagged if they can't get a deal done.
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In comment 16010071 christian said:
Quote:
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.
Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.
Bye.
@JordanRaanan
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18m
The Giants reiterated they were happy with everything Saquon Barkley gave them this season. As for the previous negotiations during bye week:
“That time of the year we weren’t really that close,” Schoen said.
They hope to find something that works for both sides this offseason
The Giant Insider Newspaper & Podcast
@GiantInsider
·
18m
Schoen says like most rookie classes they had ups and downs
Looks like he's getting tagged if they can't get a deal done.
Even earlier he said "we have tools." Jones is going to be here. Barkley he was much less committal toward.
@giantswfan
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18m
#Giants Schoen - got lot of contributions from the rookies, even with injuries..some of them will compete as starters next year and others will be be really good depth
#Giants Schoen - will also have to talk about how to handle dexter lawrence's 5th yr option
#Giants Schoen - team has known commodities who are in-house....good players from that group are the priority
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
16m
Schoen said Dexter Lawrence has done enough to earn a second contract. Said they will discuss how they want to apporach that since he's under contract for 2023 on his option year.
@Patricia_Traina
·
16m
Schoen favors re-signing those players who fit the program. Said they're known commodities and adds they'll be the priority first.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
15m
#Giants Schoen - wanted to see progress...saw it thru the season..personnel dept did great job with waivers/signings/pr squad
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
15m
Joe Schoen doesn't believe that you're ever "one player away."
Quote:
In comment 16010220 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010071 christian said:
Quote:
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
The fact that’s what go gleaned from my post is both bizarre and not surprising.
You're saying we are far away from the big 5 Correct? Good. I am saying that doesn't mean to move on from the core of players here. Others here are definitely saying this. And I even said I wasn't sure you implied that. I guess that wasn't good enough for you. Even though I clearly said it.
Should I be surprised that yet another one of your posts annoyed me. No.
Bye.
Did someone skips their meds this morning?
@art_stapleton
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14m
Joe Schoen between Giants and Philly (and 49ers): "Yes, there's a talent gap there that needs to close."
@Dan_Salomone
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14m
Joe Schoen "There's a talent gap there that we need to close." He cites the strength of the NFC East.