you do the deal with Barkley who doesn't have that much mileage on him at his age and is a top 5 back. If you have Barkley, you can get a game manager at qb. Jones is just not that great a passer to justify some of the numbers thrown around.
Jones knows its in his best interest to work with Dabs
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.
Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.
When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.
You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.
Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?
He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.
Interesting comparison:
259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc
vs
295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc
The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
You're implying Saquon couldn't do better in Philly?
because that's silly.
i like barkley well enough, and i'm not saying he is soft, but
The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
You're implying Saquon couldn't do better in Philly?
because that's silly.
I think you missed the point...
The point is a good OL can make a lesser back just as effective, while also making your QB in the passing game more effective.
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.
Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.
When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.
You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.
Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?
He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.
Interesting comparison:
259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc
vs
295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc
The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
Put Miles Sanders on our team for 2022 and Barkley on the Eagles and you think those numbers are similar?
If so, you are out of your fucking mind
RE: RE: main thing is that I trust Schoen to set a value for each player
and stick to it. You can't overpay because it kills your cap down the road. I like Williams and hope they work something out and he stays, but I would understand if they traded him to a team that's closer to the SB that needs a stalwart DT for picks this year. I like Love, but if someone throws silly $$ at him let him go and trot Pinnock out there and draft another S. Hodgins is the only WR I'd hate to see go. He would be really good as a possession type. Slayton and James are replaceable, Shep is a good guy but enough already.
I like LW but that contract is hefty. They have Lawrence (who is due a contract) and they can grab a DT in the draft if they want to have a cost-controlled piece on the DL.
You can’t just grab a guy in the draft and expect someone like LW. You can draft a DT, but you are almost assured that he will not be on the level of LW.
I would strongly prefer extending LW to lower his cap hit and keep him under contract. He was playing hurt this year and was still a force. He is the kind of player you keep in the building.
That a team like SF can take a swing with CMC because of the incredible fit with their offense and how complete that roster is.
It's still a risk. But because they did an excellent job of building that roster, they earned the right to that luxury.
Exactly! I don't think SF is the #2 seed without CMC. Probably still in the playoffs as they are well built on offense and defense but I do think he has been a huge difference on that team and was a really smart get, especially given their QB situation.
There will be some tough calls that need to be made. For me I think the wise choice is to move on from Barkley and let Love get a contract elsewhere. Both are such great leaders and it sucks to lose both, but it’s never wise to pay RBs with injury histories into second contracts. And for Love I think it’s just a numbers game, McKinney is the guy you need to resign and you can’t a lot a ton of money to two Safeties. Hope Belton can grow into a starter roll and get some more depth to play along with this unit.and I don’t think Love will be missed as much as many think (I’m a huge Love fan and really wish we could keep him but it is a business and the cap dictates that we need to prioritize re-signing key other guys).
Thomas and Dex should be priority to lock up long term, then McKinney. Extend Williams if you have to, I hope he finishes his career here. Hopefully they can come to terms on a 3 year deal with Jones, should be able to put some performance incentives in to get something done, but he can’t cripple our cash flow to go and add improvements to this roster, which we have to find some good vets and fill in and hit on our draft picks. This team still has depth issues across the board, so no more Nate Soldier or Kenny G contracts for the foreseeable future, lock up your homegrown studs at key positions.
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
but I'm alittle surprised how transparent Schoen is about Jones coming back. That's fine by me. Never really thought there was another option as Jones started playing better.
RE: RE: I found it far more interesting the words used on discussing Barkley
Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.
I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.
I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.
but there are a lot of FA RB this year and many of them are pretty good.
Add to this that the NFL draft could bring a RB a lot cheaper.
If he re-signs it will have a lot more to do with than the amount of money and the amount of talent he has, it will have to do with the intangibles like leadership and culture.
Barkley literally said he's realistic and isn't going to want to set some record breaking deal here. If they can work it out, they will. Not sure there's anything else to Schoen's comments other than that. If he leaves for another team, I imagine it will be because they offered some type of absurd deal that he couldn't turn down, and Schoen didn't feel like matching.
you do the deal with Barkley who doesn't have that much mileage on him at his age and is a top 5 back. If you have Barkley, you can get a game manager at qb. Jones is just not that great a passer to justify some of the numbers thrown around.
This is kinda where I fall on this. I can think of worse places to spend 12-13 million a year on this team.
Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.
I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.
I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.
Ummm… the Niners have CMC
And they ran the ball with great success by committee over the past 3-4 years before CMC showed up. He's a great RB to have, but it's not like they were struggling without him.
And there are some teams that could use him to stabilize the offense. THE BILLS come to mind as Allen was throwing all the time and terrible
Allen accounted for 42 td's passing and running. Can we be "terrible" like that?
The Bills traded a running back for Hines and went and signed Beasley. What do you think the Bills believed was their weakness? (Hint: it wasn't Allen throwing the ball all the time).
Love is incredibly active and serves as the glue holding the defense together. He will also be cheaper than Barkley, prob around the $10mm AAV range. He needs to be retained.
Love is incredibly active and serves as the glue holding the defense together. He will also be cheaper than Barkley, prob around the $10mm AAV range. He needs to be retained.
I think the Giants would get a nice comp pick for losing Barley too.
Count me as one who will be disappointed if Barkley is not back, because I have enjoyed rooting for him on the Giants. But, I also won't complain about it because it is a business and the guys in the offices know better than I what is the best for the team.
Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
If he keeps what up? 15 touchdown passes a season? If we are paying him like Dak he better be a hell of a lot better than he was was this year. I say that acknowledging he improved a lot this year.
Stop pretending like the cap doesn't matter. QB contracts are out of control. The teams that overpay for mediocrity at the QB position are not serious threats to win the Superbowl.
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
Schoen is doing his best to eliminate this. Still some overhang going into 23. But not a ton. We can eat up 1/2 the 2024 cap space ( 175 million) backloading guys like AT, Dex and X. Plus signing jones. Saquon and love it depends on money. I like love but X will be getting paid and we can develop a heady safety with average skills from the draft pool or in FA
Backloading a decent amount of 23 deals into 24 will give us enough room in FA to sign 2-3 mid tier guys At positions we need ( ILB, IOL and dline or cb). Draft the best guys out there. If they fit need great. But we just need to add talent. 1/2 draft class coming back from injury should really help depth ( potentially some are starters)
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
A lot people think it’s poor value to pay an RB $10 mil a year so why should a team give a second round pick for the right to negotiate a contract for $10 mil per year, especially with so many free agent RB
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,
I hope the Giants can extend Barkley in 3/35M range with all the guarantees in the first two years. For Schoen to say that weren’t close and Barkley saying he’s not looking to reset the market — that’s my guess on what the Giants offered.
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
Great post. Makes it clear the terrible mess Schoen inherited.
RE: RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
True! You can do that. Just going through the 5 best teams in the league
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
Thanks for doing this research, Ten Ton. The Eagles have a “managed” 2022 cap with a lot of player cap hits soaring in 2023 and 2024. That game Sunday is VERY important to the franchise. Go 9ers.
RE: RE: RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
So instead of paying any other free agent back they give a second rounder and then have to pay Barkley a big contract? Seems a poor allocation of resources since the argument here is we aren’t signing him bc that by itself without also giving up a second rounder is a poor allocation or resources
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
Eric, c'mon you are better than this...
My comment is about the long term strategy of roster construction, it isn't about any player right now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If Schoen decides Barkley isn’t in their plans,
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
So instead of paying any other free agent back they give a second rounder and then have to pay Barkley a big contract? Seems a poor allocation of resources since the argument here is we aren’t signing him bc that by itself without also giving up a second rounder is a poor allocation or resources
Hey... Gettleman got to play at being a GM, maybe there is another just like him out there!
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
Eric, c'mon you are better than this...
My comment is about the long term strategy of roster construction, it isn't about any player right now.
Value for money by position. Schoen even mentioned it in passing in the press conference.
The upcoming draft is apparently rich and deep with running backs.
Quote:
In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.
Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.
When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.
You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.
Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?
He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.
Interesting comparison:
259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc
vs
295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc
The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
You're implying Saquon couldn't do better in Philly?
because that's silly.
he was better in a blitz pickup and finishing runs with power rather than juking around all the time-- but he's just not built to take a pounding.
Barkley says he doesn't expect to reset the market, and Schoen says they weren't close at the bye.
Schoen's number is not close to the top of the market.
Quote:
In comment 16010374 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:
Interesting comparison:
259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc
vs
295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc
The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
You're implying Saquon couldn't do better in Philly?
because that's silly.
I think you missed the point...
The point is a good OL can make a lesser back just as effective, while also making your QB in the passing game more effective.
Quote:
In comment 16010371 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
out of this and realize Barkley is a KNOWN commodity- good and bad. The good is obvious, the bad is a sometimes soft running style and a long history of getting injured.
Was Barkley more effective earlier in the season when Jones was running a lot? Could be. Did Barkley become a bit more worn down, less explosive after the Houston game with a large number of carries? He sure the heck did.
When you are putting a roster together you have to balance it all out. Look at the Eagles, are any of their backs in Barkley's class as far as talent goes? heck no. BUT, their Oline, their TE's, their WR's are all top notch and thus those backs are even better than their overall talent would suggest. The Giants can save a LOT of money with by employing a committee type approach at RB ( Breida, Brightwell, draft choice etc) and use more money for TE help, WR help and maybe another Olinemen.
You also get worse at RB. And what WR are you paying all that saved money to? Where is he? He aint in 2023 FA I can tell you that.
Barkley made some of the biggest plays in that WC win at Minny. He also had 2 big TDs. Are you sure he wore down?
He carried the ball 9 times and honestly the one run was a good cut back but he was pretty much unscathed on the way to endzone. You prove my point.
Interesting comparison:
259 car- 1269 yds- 11 tds 4.9 ypc
vs
295 car- 1312 yds - 10 tds 4.4 ypc
The first numbers are Miles Sanders and the second Saquan's numbers. If you can get similar production from a "lesser" talent and improve multiple areas, you have improved your team.
Put Miles Sanders on our team for 2022 and Barkley on the Eagles and you think those numbers are similar?
If so, you are out of your fucking mind
Quote:
and stick to it. You can't overpay because it kills your cap down the road. I like Williams and hope they work something out and he stays, but I would understand if they traded him to a team that's closer to the SB that needs a stalwart DT for picks this year. I like Love, but if someone throws silly $$ at him let him go and trot Pinnock out there and draft another S. Hodgins is the only WR I'd hate to see go. He would be really good as a possession type. Slayton and James are replaceable, Shep is a good guy but enough already.
I like LW but that contract is hefty. They have Lawrence (who is due a contract) and they can grab a DT in the draft if they want to have a cost-controlled piece on the DL.
You can’t just grab a guy in the draft and expect someone like LW. You can draft a DT, but you are almost assured that he will not be on the level of LW.
I would strongly prefer extending LW to lower his cap hit and keep him under contract. He was playing hurt this year and was still a force. He is the kind of player you keep in the building.
It's still a risk. But because they did an excellent job of building that roster, they earned the right to that luxury.
Exactly! I don't think SF is the #2 seed without CMC. Probably still in the playoffs as they are well built on offense and defense but I do think he has been a huge difference on that team and was a really smart get, especially given their QB situation.
Put Miles Sanders on our team for 2022 and Barkley on the Eagles and you think those numbers are similar?
If so, you are out of your fucking mind
Agreed... I think it is worth noting what Barkley's production has been on a per-touch basis with a crap OL
Thomas and Dex should be priority to lock up long term, then McKinney. Extend Williams if you have to, I hope he finishes his career here. Hopefully they can come to terms on a 3 year deal with Jones, should be able to put some performance incentives in to get something done, but he can’t cripple our cash flow to go and add improvements to this roster, which we have to find some good vets and fill in and hit on our draft picks. This team still has depth issues across the board, so no more Nate Soldier or Kenny G contracts for the foreseeable future, lock up your homegrown studs at key positions.
Bye Bye.
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
Quote:
Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.
I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.
I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.
Ummm… the Niners have CMC
Add to this that the NFL draft could bring a RB a lot cheaper.
If he re-signs it will have a lot more to do with than the amount of money and the amount of talent he has, it will have to do with the intangibles like leadership and culture.
This is kinda where I fall on this. I can think of worse places to spend 12-13 million a year on this team.
Quote:
In comment 16010560 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Appeared only lukewarm on the idea, though that's probably posturing.
I wouldn't mind having Barkley back at the right price, but I suspect Daboll/Schoen/Kafka have their preferences, based on their previous teams: spend the $ on buffing up the lines and having a stable of solid, cost-efficient RBs. The goal is to be like the Eagles and Niners, where you can plug and play RBs. Easier said than done, of course.
I think Barkley was great for what this offense had this year, but I can't help thinking how fun it would be to trot out different types of runners behind a stout O-line: the battering ram, the speed back, etc. Being less reliant on one bellcow can also mitigate against any fall-off due to injuries.
Ummm… the Niners have CMC
And they ran the ball with great success by committee over the past 3-4 years before CMC showed up. He's a great RB to have, but it's not like they were struggling without him.
Anyone have a link to a full replay?
I don’t see it on the Giants.com site or YT.
Thanks.
Anyone have a link to a full replay?
I don’t see it on the Giants.com site or YT.
Thanks.
Link just went up on youtube: Full press conference
The Bills traded a running back for Hines and went and signed Beasley. What do you think the Bills believed was their weakness? (Hint: it wasn't Allen throwing the ball all the time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOEfxm6X9U - ( New Window )
I think the Giants would get a nice comp pick for losing Barley too.
That would ease the sting a bit. If we're going to lose him, might as well get something other than a comp pick.
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Yup -- there are 5 power houses in the NFL right now: Philly, San Francisco, Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
The Giants would lose to those 5 teams 10/10 times.
They are in the next class, which is excellent progress in one year.
This might be fair, maybe a slight exaggeration but fine. That doesn't mean we get rid of the only star power we have on offense. That doesn't mean we can't build around what we have here already. Not saying you implied that, but many are flat out saying it.
AGain, you're allowed to pay 12-15 big time salaries in this cap world we love to fear. We are paying like 3-4 guys right now. And 1-2 of them are coming off the books over the next season or so.
This fear of spending money is out of control around here. Yes you don't want to sign a Galladay. Shit, you did't want to pay that guy in 1986 either. it fucked the books then too. IT would fuck them now. But Barkley is not Galloday. Jones is not Dak. And if he is, ok? Who the fuck else we getting for 2023? Some guy from Idaho?
If Daboll is convinced he can do better and soon? Fine. I'll put my faith in him. With all due respect to everyone here, I aint putting my faith in the take that says Jones is a huge pay risk or that e is Dak redux. What if he keeps this up for the next 3-4-5 years? We're fine that's what.
If he keeps what up? 15 touchdown passes a season? If we are paying him like Dak he better be a hell of a lot better than he was was this year. I say that acknowledging he improved a lot this year.
Stop pretending like the cap doesn't matter. QB contracts are out of control. The teams that overpay for mediocrity at the QB position are not serious threats to win the Superbowl.
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
Schoen is doing his best to eliminate this. Still some overhang going into 23. But not a ton. We can eat up 1/2 the 2024 cap space ( 175 million) backloading guys like AT, Dex and X. Plus signing jones. Saquon and love it depends on money. I like love but X will be getting paid and we can develop a heady safety with average skills from the draft pool or in FA
Backloading a decent amount of 23 deals into 24 will give us enough room in FA to sign 2-3 mid tier guys At positions we need ( ILB, IOL and dline or cb). Draft the best guys out there. If they fit need great. But we just need to add talent. 1/2 draft class coming back from injury should really help depth ( potentially some are starters)
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
A lot people think it’s poor value to pay an RB $10 mil a year so why should a team give a second round pick for the right to negotiate a contract for $10 mil per year, especially with so many free agent RB
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You guys are missing the point.
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
Great post. Makes it clear the terrible mess Schoen inherited.
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He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
The chiefs have 7 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
The bills have 9 players with a cap hit of 10m or more.
PHI has 4 players with a cap hit of 10m or more
SF has 7
CIN has 7.
The Giants currently have 5.
Here's the problem.
Leonard Williams at 32m is eating 14% of all team-building money the Giants can use and is higher paid than any player on those 5 teams besides allen and mahomes. Higher than the best LT in football in Trent Williams, higher than a #1 WR such as diggs, more money than an all pro TE such as kittle. Higher than a shutdown corner like Slay or Tredavious White. He doesn't produce the same value.
Golladay at 21 is a total flop
Costly mistakes that limited them this year. You gotta be smart with this stuff or it turns around to burn you very quick.
Thanks for doing this research, Ten Ton. The Eagles have a “managed” 2022 cap with a lot of player cap hits soaring in 2023 and 2024. That game Sunday is VERY important to the franchise. Go 9ers.
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In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:
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He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
So instead of paying any other free agent back they give a second rounder and then have to pay Barkley a big contract? Seems a poor allocation of resources since the argument here is we aren’t signing him bc that by itself without also giving up a second rounder is a poor allocation or resources
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In comment 16010678 .McL. said:
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You guys are missing the point.
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
Eric, c'mon you are better than this...
My comment is about the long term strategy of roster construction, it isn't about any player right now.
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In comment 16011015 The Dude said:
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In comment 16010829 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He needs to work a tag and trade deal. There will be a market out there and it would be great to net, say, an extra 2nd rounder.
a second round pick for a RB on a 1 yr deal? And will be 27 years old if you extend him past that? I simply cant see that at all.
A tag and trade would include a new contract with the acquiring team. Saquon is a big name. Take a team like the Chargers, who play in a tough division. Getting Barkley might be enough to push them into the elite tier of teams, along with some other improvements. A 2nd rounder for that? Maybe yes.
So instead of paying any other free agent back they give a second rounder and then have to pay Barkley a big contract? Seems a poor allocation of resources since the argument here is we aren’t signing him bc that by itself without also giving up a second rounder is a poor allocation or resources
Hey... Gettleman got to play at being a GM, maybe there is another just like him out there!
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In comment 16010913 Gruber said:
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In comment 16010678 .McL. said:
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You guys are missing the point.
It isn't that Sanders is a better RB than Barkley.
Sanders has equivalent performance because they have a better OL. The better OL also has a positive effect on the passing game. A positive effect that Barkley doesn't provide! Better to spend the money on better OL!
It's a simple point that some folks can't grasp.
which great OL is available to spend the $ on instead?
Eric, c'mon you are better than this...
My comment is about the long term strategy of roster construction, it isn't about any player right now.
Value for money by position. Schoen even mentioned it in passing in the press conference.
The upcoming draft is apparently rich and deep with running backs.
So pass on Thibodeaux and Neal for what? Two or three lesser players?
I won't disagree about Wan'Dale, but by the end of the year they were running slashing pass routes that Robinson would have been killer in.