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Conclusions & Next Steps?

JoeDonLooney : 1/23/2023 10:09 am
Having watched this surprising season by the NY Giants, I’ve been thinking about the conclusions a fan may have and the consequences as well. So here it goes:

QB: I remain skeptical about Daniel Jones. He is a poor man’s Josh Allen. One big question remains: how long can he continue to be a running QB. Allen has the tools and IMHO can compete against the top teams with his arm and his head. The jury is still out on Jones. I suggest the Giants pursue a non-exclusive franchise tag. This will permit them to continue to evaluate Jones while recruiting/drafting talent, especially WR to help him. They can use the 120% of his present year salary as a basis. This would help with the CAP. Should another team makes an offer, they could match it or receive a draft package of two first-round picks (I would prefer the picks). Backup: Recommend Jacoby Brissett. If they lose Jones, go with Brissett and Taylor and build the team targeting 2024 Draft for QB.

RB: Sign Barkley. I do not care if it is 3 or 4 years. For CAP purposes perhaps use bonuses to minimize 2023 impact. He is a strategic weapon. Letting him go makes no sense with a team that has so few genuine weapons. I like Breida and Brightwell as contributors. Note: I believe the Bills need a runner like Barkley or Sanders to elevate their game.

WR: The Giants presently remind me a lot of Buffalo Bills. Similar offensive strategies. Similar QBs. Buffalo recognized they needed a top flite WR and got Stephan Diggs. Giants need to pull the trigger and either acquire through free agency or draft a #1 WR. I prefer the latter in the first round, even if this means trading up to do so. They have 11 picks in the draft. I am not particularly interested in Landry, Shuster, Meyers, Lazard, Chark or Hardman. They are not #1s. Landry is 30 and IMHO, his glory days are over. Also, I would not have a problem with OBJ, but only with the understanding that he is a #2 to complement a #1 (and that goes for $$$ too).

TE: I believe Bollinger will develop further. The only free agent TE that I would consider is Miami’s Gesicki. My concern is the cost is too high and he does not block. I would prefer to concentrate on getting another TE in the draft. If not Mayer (ND) I would look at Sam LaPorta of Iowa or Bell of South Carolina who could be a really big threat.
OL: I contend the Giants have book-ends at tackles. . The concern is the interior. I like Denver’s Dalton Risner as a free agent guard to target. My highest priority is Center. There are a number of free agents to investigate, e.g., Bradbury (Vikings), Morse (Bills), Reiter (Chiefs). Kelce (Eagles) is too old and may retire. Like guard, this could be augmented by the draft. I like Van Pran (Georgia) and Stromberg (Arkansas).

DL: Is it me or does it appear that many times there are only two down lineman for the Giants? The edge rushers mostly stand up. Their tackles of runners appear to be behind the line of scrimmage or chasing down field. I would rather see Ojulari and Thibodeaux be more like Taylor/Banks and not merely rushing but cover as linebackers. For the 3-4 scheme, this team needs another bookend DE who can stop the run and push the pocket. Keep Lawrence at NT. My prospects to target in the draft are Murphy (Clemson), Foskey (Notre Dame) and Adebaworwe (NW). Also need another NT to backup Lawrence.

ILB: This team is screaming for help here. I believe part of the problem is the porous DL. The ILB do not read/react well. Free agent targets are: Long (Titans), David (Bucs), Edmunds (Bills) and Edwards (Eagles). From the draft, I would target Simpson (Clemson), Campbell (Iowa), Herbig (Wisconsin) and Sewell (Oregon).

DB/S: I am content with this group as a whole. I would like to see another free agent and draft prospect augment/reinforce CB. Bradberry comes to mind. I also like Dean (Bucs) and Sutton (Steelers). From the draft I really like Joey Porter Jr. (Penn St), Ringo (Georgia) and Forbes (Miss St).

FWIW, these are my observations and thoughts.
Things are moving in the right direction.  
SaquontheDon : 1/23/2023 10:25 am : link
Retaining your own players is step 1. Ya can’t keep washing new players in and out every 2 years. This place has been a revolving door of bad draft picks and underperforming FAs. I think our current Players are willing to sign fair deals seeing the potential of the team. Also, players on the outside will be looking at the giants as a desirable place to play. This off-season will be a good one.
Here’s a thought Daniel Jones is Josh Allen  
eli4life : 1/23/2023 10:30 am : link
Or pretty damned close. Hear me out it’s not as crazy as it looks. Side by side just Jones and Allen, Allen is the guy hands down for whatever reason you may state but it’s not just them. Allen with daboll he was 1 or 1a without daboll he took a big step back. Now Jones has daboll and he took a huge step forward and with better pieces around him I have no doubt he’ll be right around where Allen is now
What's the point of keeping Barkley on this team...  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/23/2023 10:32 am : link
...if they won't use him in a game that was tailor-made for him?
I think it's lazy  
46and2Blue : 1/23/2023 10:50 am : link
to compare Josh Allen and DJ. Sure, they have both played in the system, and can make plays with their legs, that's about it. For my part I have not seen Jones perform well against topflight defense, but he also doesn't have the targets to do so. Love to see the guy play with some talent around him. They need another TE to to go along with Balinger. Man I miss Jeremy Shockey..hell I miss Kevin Boss!
DJ is much closer to Alex Smith than Josh Allen  
Sean : 1/23/2023 10:52 am : link
.
RE: What's the point of keeping Barkley on this team...  
M.S. : 1/23/2023 10:54 am : link
In comment 16010035 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...if they won't use him in a game that was tailor-made for him?

Very strange how few touches Barkley got toward the end of the season, especially in our last debacle game against the Eagles. Were the Giants preserving him for the Super Bowl in a few weeks?
After this years playoffs, the shine on Allen came off for me a bit  
Dinger : 1/23/2023 10:56 am : link
Dont get me wrong, he's physically the guy you want at QB. Laser arm, great accuracy and able to run and take a beating. Not sure what was going on with the turnovers though. Too careless in the playoffs? I think the book is out on Dak as well. Apply a little pressure and you can get yourself a turnover. Now the issue is getting the guys who can create the pressure against that line and the guys who can intercept the ball. Not sure what to do about Philly except get a ton of Super Talented guys who can beat them;)
RE: After this years playoffs, the shine on Allen came off for me a bit  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/23/2023 11:10 am : link
In comment 16010085 Dinger said:
Quote:
Dont get me wrong, he's physically the guy you want at QB. Laser arm, great accuracy and able to run and take a beating. Not sure what was going on with the turnovers though. Too careless in the playoffs? I think the book is out on Dak as well. Apply a little pressure and you can get yourself a turnover. Now the issue is getting the guys who can create the pressure against that line and the guys who can intercept the ball. Not sure what to do about Philly except get a ton of Super Talented guys who can beat them;)


I think his elbow injury affected him. He also dinged his knee in the Bengals game in the drive before the Hamlin play. But also it could be the coordinator.
yeah I'm not in love with Allen either. HAs the tools, but not  
Victor in CT : 1/23/2023 11:10 am : link
very bright, makes bad decisions. Clearly misses Daboll. I liked Cincy yesterday going in because I think Burrow is better than Allen and Taylor and staff is better than McDermott and staff.

Also Chase and Higgins are REALLY good, as are Mixon and the other back.
Just a quick correction on one of the OP notes  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/23/2023 11:11 am : link
The Giants can't use 120% of DJ's current salary as the basis for the non-exclusive franchise tag. The language is, the tag value (in this case, just under $32M) OR 120% of the player's current salary, whichever is greater.
RE: RE: What's the point of keeping Barkley on this team...  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/23/2023 11:12 am : link
In comment 16010084 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16010035 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...if they won't use him in a game that was tailor-made for him?


Very strange how few touches Barkley got toward the end of the season, especially in our last debacle game against the Eagles. Were the Giants preserving him for the Super Bowl in a few weeks?


Who knows. But Philly's rush defense was 24th in yards per attempt, 16th in yards. That was the way to attack them. It might have caused them to ease up on the pass rush, and may have settled Jones down.

And Barkley should have been fresh; he had a light load against the Vikings.
RE: RE: RE: What's the point of keeping Barkley on this team...  
Victor in CT : 1/23/2023 11:14 am : link
In comment 16010111 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16010084 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 16010035 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...if they won't use him in a game that was tailor-made for him?


Very strange how few touches Barkley got toward the end of the season, especially in our last debacle game against the Eagles. Were the Giants preserving him for the Super Bowl in a few weeks?



Who knows. But Philly's rush defense was 24th in yards per attempt, 16th in yards. That was the way to attack them. It might have caused them to ease up on the pass rush, and may have settled Jones down.

And Barkley should have been fresh; he had a light load against the Vikings.


agree with you guys. it's on Daboll and Kafka to explain how your most dynamic playmaker isnt seeing the ball in a game of that magnitude.
RE: After this years playoffs, the shine on Allen came off for me a bit  
Bruner4329 : 1/23/2023 11:16 am : link
In comment 16010085 Dinger said:
Quote:
Dont get me wrong, he's physically the guy you want at QB. Laser arm, great accuracy and able to run and take a beating. Not sure what was going on with the turnovers though. Too careless in the playoffs? I think the book is out on Dak as well. Apply a little pressure and you can get yourself a turnover. Now the issue is getting the guys who can create the pressure against that line and the guys who can intercept the ball. Not sure what to do about Philly except get a ton of Super Talented guys who can beat them;)


Every year is a story in its own. Philly will be losing some key players potentially to FA. They have about $5 million in cap space and guys like Bradberry and Kelce not to mentions their RBs are free agents. They will be hard pressed to keep the total team together. They will still be very good but its hard to keep all that talent together from year to year.
Regarding whether to resign Love  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/23/2023 11:35 am : link
...It was a given for me, but he was so awful against the Eagles (and pretty bad in the fist Eagles game too), now I am thinking it could be risky.

Is he an average player that plays well against lousy teams, but poorly against good teams? You don't want to pay a premium for guys like that. Just something to think about.
Josh Allen- Danny Jones?????  
GiantBlue : 1/23/2023 11:36 am : link
Josh Allen mixes it up with the defense, getting in their face, making beautiful throws.....

Danny, though bigger than when he was drafted, is nowhere near as confrontational or has the howitzer Josh has.

Danny is a nice middle of the pack QB. But right now, he isn't in the top 10 and we need a top 10 QB.

Can he get there. Sure. With age comes experience.
Barkley.....  
thrunthrublue : 1/23/2023 11:47 am : link
got run down by the eagles, when before all the injuries he scores on that play.....he has unfortunately lost some of the magic speed that made him that first rounder. team needs new special teams coaching from top to bottom including a strategically talented punter, and a return matrix capable of breaking off big yards.
Gano......can stay.

Huge need for a pass rusher that would demand double teaming. Thibs needs lots of off season work to make him a player not washed aside by one on one blocking.

Linebackers. this team has none.

Center. team needs one.

Neal needs tons of off season work, and in the spring, if he is still lacking first step pass protecting speed......make him a guard. His poor play risks injury to the QB

Slayton, the fastest WR needs to be gone. team is woefully in need of wide receivers with speed and good hands/ball security.

that, and all the moves J.S. is tasked with.
Can't pay an injury prone back  
kelly : 1/23/2023 12:12 pm : link
Big dollars for a second contract.

Most runners only have at max four good years. Too much pounding.
Who was available  
Paul326 : 1/23/2023 12:13 pm : link
It was made painfully obvious Saturday that this WR group can't consistently defeat good coverage which when combined with the constant pressure generated by Philly with just their DL left DJ nowhere to throw the ball and no time to find the receivers if they did get open. Also while Dec & Leo are monsters when the subs come in the drop off is huge. Every time they came out of the game for a blow Philly just pushed the subs around exposing the poor tackling LBs resulting in big gains for the RBs.
Look I'm extremely happy the Giants played meaningful into mid January in year 1 of a new coaching regime but this team has way too many holes to fill. They don't need to create another one by letting DJ walk out of the door. With shallow QB draft & FA classes this not the year to be replacing that position.
Positions that need to be addressed this off season LB,DL for improved depth, CB, IOL, WR, & TE. There will be many new faces on this team next season.
Murphy will be gone by the time we pick but Bresee will probably  
markky : 1/23/2023 12:47 pm : link
fall to us. I wouldn't cry about that.
One thing that might surprise us fans: actual player development.  
81_Great_Dane : 1/23/2023 1:33 pm : link
Teams that are consistently good have an internal pipeline, so they're not having to constantly sign expensive free agents to fill holes. The Giants have been pretty bad at filling that internal pipeline and developing guys, going back to Reese and Coughlin, so we Giants fans aren't used to the idea of late-round picks, practice squad guys, waiver wire pickups and UDFAs routinely becoming important contributors. (The key word being "routinely.")

If Schoen et al are able to fill that pipeline, and the coaches are able to coach guys up year-on-year, then there would be fewer problems with depth.

Early results look promising.
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