Agreed, but then we are back to the original question. The thought of QB purgatory (see the Jets, Panthers Commanders, etc) scares me.You know your cost for Jones and what you have in him. Don't need to give up crucial picks to move up, especially when we need so much more than a QB. Hoping that a Hendon Hooker in the 3rd can become our Purdy is really rolling the dice. Hell a 1st round pick is rolling the dice. I loved the other thread where someone said let DJ walk and wait for this years Heisman winner in 2024. That sounds like a super plan.......
Franchise him.
RE: RE: Jones is going to continue to prove the doubters wrong
Help is coming via the draft. 5 interceptions all year with what they trotted out there is a remarkable achievement. Dual threat qb. The arrow is pointing upwards. He threw an absolute dime to Slayton in the corner of the end zone against Minnesota after the Hodgins catch. I think Jones takes another jump forward next year.
I do have concerns about how he performs when the game speed goes up. Philly plays at another speed. I look forward to asking Sy about this in his game review.
Philly was a buzzsaw. They are loaded. The NYG have guys mainly off the streets and practice squads as our WRs. When they get him the WRs and the pass pro continues to improve he'll be right there after the top 5-6 QBs in the NFL. You can win a SuperBowl with DJ. Just got to put better talent around him.
If it’s not the Giants then it will be someone else. What’s market value. Don’t know for sure but I think it’s somewhere near $40m AAV. I don’t think a tag makes sense unless it’s temporary to get a deal done. After declining his option they now tag him. Not a good look and just delays the inevitable. Also not good look for the FO and whatever plan they may have. Reeks of “caught off guard”. Fish or cut bait.
If it’s not the Giants then it will be someone else. What’s market value. Don’t know for sure but I think it’s somewhere near $40m AAV. I don’t think a tag makes sense unless it’s temporary to get a deal done. After declining his option they now tag him. Not a good look and just delays the inevitable. Also not good look for the FO and whatever plan they may have. Reeks of “caught off guard”. Fish or cut bait.
I said this exact thing in a similar thread and got lambasted but it's 100% accurate. Joe Schoen didn't decline a very cost effective option year (was only $22m as I recall) to turn around and use a 2x excluse franchise tag. Bad business and, as you said, a bad look because it signals the 2 sides are not eye to eye.
Front office was obviously pleasantly surprised with the outcome of the season but now they have a QB who won a playoff game. There are a lot of QBs who have never done that. Jones cemented himself in the top 10 pay scale because of that playoff win. He will get somewhere in the $35m - $40m AAV just depends on length. If I was his agent I would take nothing less than market. No home town discounts for a team that didn't even believe in my guy enough to pick up the option year.
Some think he won’t have much of a market if at all. I’m not sure another team is giving him $40M per year. We’ll see.
Well, I think with there being 8-10 teams desperate for a starting QB someone will pay top dollar. Plenty of examples
- Kyler Murray: 0-1 in the playoffs, $46m AAV
- Derek Carr: 0-1 in the playoffs, $40.5m AAV
- Kirk Cousins: 1-3 in the playoffs, $35 AAV
- Carson Wentz: 0-1 in the playoffs as a starter, $32m AAV
And Webb then draft a developmental guy. Get the cap fully in control and build the roster until you find the guy.
I’d rather that than overpay for someone who isn’t the guy. We are paying Taylor a lot to be a backup. I think that was a mistake by Schoen and Taylor seems to be injured easy.
In any event I think it would be a mistake to move on from Jones since there really are no options. I would still draft a QB to develop. Moving on from Jones sends a bad message to the team. Plus if you move on and don’t make the playoffs you may lose some credibility especially if Jones goes to another team and excels with better talent.
Some think he won’t have much of a market if at all. I’m not sure another team is giving him $40M per year. We’ll see.
Let's say we let Team Jones to hit the open market to see what type of demand they can generate. If they get a great deal - say AAV $40+, $100+ guaranteed, etc - is it that big of a setback if they sign and leave?
Some think he won’t have much of a market if at all. I’m not sure another team is giving him $40M per year. We’ll see.
Let's say we let Team Jones to hit the open market to see what type of demand they can generate. If they get a great deal - say AAV $40+, $100+ guaranteed, etc - is it that big of a setback if they sign and leave?
is this a real question?
not only would they be giving up at least 1 top 50 pick for nothing but they'd have no qb and no high draft pick to get one. tyrod is barely durable enough to be a back up. in the limited action he saw this year he got carted off once and knocked out once.
Some think he won’t have much of a market if at all. I’m not sure another team is giving him $40M per year. We’ll see.
Well, I think with there being 8-10 teams desperate for a starting QB someone will pay top dollar. Plenty of examples
- Kyler Murray: 0-1 in the playoffs, $46m AAV
- Derek Carr: 0-1 in the playoffs, $40.5m AAV
- Kirk Cousins: 1-3 in the playoffs, $35 AAV
- Carson Wentz: 0-1 in the playoffs as a starter, $32m AAV
Why didn’t Trubisky have a market then beyond getting back up money? And he drove right down the field in a playoff game against Philly and had the Bears in FG range. The kicker didn’t execute.
I have heard some observers say the market for Jones is overrated
“We’re happy Daniel’s going to be here. We’re happy he’s going to be here. Hopefully we can get something done with his representatives. And that would be the goal – to build a team around him where he can lead us and win a Super Bowl.”
Now, to me that doesn’t sound like GM hyperbole and you can’t build around a player on a tag. But hey, maybe that’s just me.
And play tyrod Taylor til he’s ready. I’m under the opinion that kaftka (if he stays) and daboll can coach him up like they have with other quarterbacks. I also believe that if we lose Jones we will get at least a #1 back, prob 2 and we can use that pick to take Richardson since I don’t believe he will be there for the giants pick.
I for one do not want to go through 3- 4 seasons of losing and watching horrible football. I have been down the road a lot since I became a fan in 1955, I do not want to go through that again.
done. Tagging him would be the worst possible choice. It would mean they are moving forward with a QB who they can’t meet eye to eye on as to his value, which would mean he’s an expensive stop gap. That will SEVERELY hamper the rebuild.
Name the better options. Until you do, I don't see how you say it is the worst.
not only would they be giving up at least 1 top 50 pick for nothing but they'd have no qb and no high draft pick to get one. tyrod is barely durable enough to be a back up. in the limited action he saw this year he got carted off once and knocked out once.
To an extent, yes.
Now, I don't think it's going to happen because the NEFT will likely be applied if a long-term deal can't be reached. So, this probably moot.
At the same time, I don't think any team is coughing up two first round picks for Daniel Jones, either, under the NEFT.
So, if no team is willing to give up that package, let Team Jones test the market for his true value. At which point I see two likely outcomes:
+ Yes, lose Jones to another team who gives him a big deal. At that point, the solutions could be the Carr Sweepstakes or a one-year deal with Mayfield.
+ The market for Jones is soft and we are able to keep him on a multi-year deal cheaper than the AAV than the NEFT.
Build a team through FA and the draft, tank with Tyrod for a year, draft Caleb Williams and build a true SB contender. This fan base is so starved for wins they'll pay $35 mil a year for a guy who will never win anything meaningful.
And play tyrod Taylor til he’s ready. I’m under the opinion that kaftka (if he stays) and daboll can coach him up like they have with other quarterbacks. I also believe that if we lose Jones we will get at least a #1 back, prob 2 and we can use that pick to take Richardson since I don’t believe he will be there for the giants pick.
I for one do not want to go through 3- 4 seasons of losing and watching horrible football. I have been down the road a lot since I became a fan in 1955, I do not want to go through that again.
So you think committing 20% of the cap to a middle of the pack QB is the answer? The Giants came in third place in the East, and are not close to being able to compete with Dallas and Philly. The Giants will not be getting the cupcake schedule outside of the division that they got this year.
If DJ and his agent are demanding that the Giants overpay him like the other shitty franchises mentioned in this thread have, tag him. It buys them time to find the long term solution while adding talent to the roster.
With that level of indecisiveness. Besides looking bafoonish, you would be letting some other org chart the giants course?
And for what … to try to beat up (financially) the possible leader of your team and save some money? I don’t think it helps other business or negotiation to be viewed as a cheap and or petty franchise.
If you decide you want the guy make it happen including tag if nec. If not figure out a different plan. Letting someone else decide (go test the market) is weak. ESP with a QB Jmo
RE: I can’t give Jones $40M when these are his passing TD numbers:
I think Jones should be back, and he’s a good player but no on $40M per year. I’d rather franchise him then and challenge him to make the jump Hurts made from 2021 to 2022. Hurts threw for 16 TD’s in 2021.
I concur. He 's getting tagged, and that's why he's sour.
Build a team through FA and the draft, tank with Tyrod for a year, draft Caleb Williams and build a true SB contender. This fan base is so starved for wins they'll pay $35 mil a year for a guy who will never win anything meaningful.
Hmmm... You know, I actually kinda like the sound of that.
I don't think it will happen at all, but I do think it's very possible that 5 years from now we'll wish it had.
Jones wants to remain a Giant and the Giants want Jones as their QB. I don't see how a deal isn't agreed to.
Based on what are you stating Authoritatively that Jones wants to remain a Giant, as if it is some sort of common Knowledge?
I'm just basing it off things I've read.
Jones said the day after a 38-7 playoff loss to the Eagles that he wanted to return. With both parties having similar goals, it seems a pretty sure bet it will eventually happen.
"I really enjoyed my time here, and I want to be here," Jones said. "I think there's a business side of it all, and a lot of that I can't control. I have love and respect for this organization and ownership and the guys in this locker room. "So I'd love to be here. I really enjoyed being here, and we'll see how it all works out."
He is staying and that is what will happen. Taylor is not ready to lead the Giant's unless you want to end up 4-13 next year
If the Giants go 4-13 next year then they are in the running for a QB with potentially a much stronger group of players than what DJ came in with. And they would have had hopefully a good draft this year and cap space in 2014.
Next year they might be an 8-9 team.
Which is the better option?
But I dont think the Giants would do this. They'll keep DJ whether it be 1 year or more.
overpaid. Guess what, Jones is going to get overpaid. Whether it is with the Giants or some other team, he is going to get his money. I think it is stupid money for most of them.
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
I really like him and his character fits this team. He had no TE for 3/4 of the year ,he had no offensive line worth a shit and he had no wide receivers at all ,probably the worse receivers in the league .He practically won the Minny game by himself along with the defense.I would do a long term deal 4 year at 120 mil that is fair 30 per.If he wants more tAG AND TRADE HIS ASS.I like him alot but we need to build a team we need alot to get better and putting 40 million is not the right move.
overpaid. Guess what, Jones is going to get overpaid. Whether it is with the Giants or some other team, he is going to get his money. I think it is stupid money for most of them.
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
Yes I agree that QBs are overpaid. That doesn't mean the Giants have to fall into the trap and ruin the talent level and depth on the team by giving a middle of the pack QB a stupid amount of money.
Look at the best teams in each conference. The best teams in the AFC have the elite QBs. The best teams in the NFC have the best overall talent and depth, because they have QBs on cheap contracts.
I am not saying there will never be exceptions, but that really is the two paths to winning a Superbowl in today's game.
Paying Jones $40M a year because that is just what the market dictates is a quick way to keeping this team from reaching their goal of a championship.
Tag Jones. That is the only option this year. Either we get 2 first rounders or we lock him in for one year without a long term, cap crippling commitment. Find another guy via the draft, FA, trade, whatever. It is not my job to scout QBs.
But every team that overpays for mediocrity at QB does not have a chance at winning the Superbowl.
I thought DJ had a good season. But the idea of shelling out $40 million to him? GTFO.
He's not Burrow.
Burrow will get $50m at least.
How has Dak getting $40M worked out? And he’s thrown over 30 TD’s in a season.
Dallas makes the playoffs every year Dak is healthy.
Again, acting like the entire dallas plan has failed miserably based on the fact that they haven't won the super bowl, and putting it all on the Dak deal alone, is just ridiculous.
Everyone keeos using them as some sort of remember the alamo moment. Dallas just came within 1-2 plays of heading to the NFC title game. Was Dak a problem? YEs, but lets not sit here and act like the entire construct in dallas is some sort of clear proof that paying the QB is foolish. And lastly, no one saw this Dak play coming, even if you think you did, fine you were right in predicting that Dak would regress. Dallas obviously didn't think so. Some QBs don't regress. Some more actually PROGRESS after being paid. IF you think Jones won't regress and actually might progress you fucking pay the guy.
Can we at least acknowledge that Dallas has in fact WON despite paying the RB and the QB? Ok fine, no super bowl.. is that it? What if the Giants pay Jones and then come within inches of winning the whiole thing in 2 years but fail to close? Are we gonna sit here and blast the fucking contract?
You don't get to throw it back. You take your shot like Dallas did EVERY time! You don't sit there 2 years ago and say "well, Dak might be a long shot MVP candidate (he was even if you think otherwise) --and he's in the workout room daily--first to arrive, last to leave. Plasy through pain. Plays WELL, game in game out---but you know what, FUCK THAT--we're letting him walk so we can save money. I will draft a kid.
You sign guys that are keepers. Jones is clearly a legit starting QB in the league. HE can win. You pay him because he's your best option right now. KEep the QB door open and keep grinding and looking for upgrades at every position.
overpaid. Guess what, Jones is going to get overpaid. Whether it is with the Giants or some other team, he is going to get his money. I think it is stupid money for most of them.
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
Yes I agree that QBs are overpaid. That doesn't mean the Giants have to fall into the trap and ruin the talent level and depth on the team by giving a middle of the pack QB a stupid amount of money.
Look at the best teams in each conference. The best teams in the AFC have the elite QBs. The best teams in the NFC have the best overall talent and depth, because they have QBs on cheap contracts.
I am not saying there will never be exceptions, but that really is the two paths to winning a Superbowl in today's game.
Paying Jones $40M a year because that is just what the market dictates is a quick way to keeping this team from reaching their goal of a championship.
Tag Jones. That is the only option this year. Either we get 2 first rounders or we lock him in for one year without a long term, cap crippling commitment. Find another guy via the draft, FA, trade, whatever. It is not my job to scout QBs.
But every team that overpays for mediocrity at QB does not have a chance at winning the Superbowl.
If I were DJ I would want to leave. The guy is a VERY good QB who doesn't get the respect he deserves.
1. They don't pick up his option. (Understandable)but a slap in the face.
2. They never gave him a decent surrounding cast.
3. Unjustified verbal abuse by media and a number of fans.
4. A couch who refuses to say when he's played a great game, and he had a number of them.
IMO it's amazing where he took a not so good team. He's the main reason the Giants made the playoffs, and he gets mostly grief. The rant goes, he was awful in the philly game. Who played well? We have an all pro, Dexter Lawrence, and I love the guy but even he, our all pro played poorly. The game was a train wreck, but DJ was supposed to play great. The kid deserves much better then he's getting here. I will miss him but he should go to where his many talents are more appreciated.
t doesn't matter where you pick, only who does the picking.
Here we go with this same tired narrative that you trot out every year around this time, only now new and improved to include the legend of Brock Purdy.
Neither one of those teams drafted Brady or Purdy to be a starting QB. That either amounted to anything more than just an acceptable use of a roster spot is statistically miraculous. Anything more than that is gravy.
The key isn't even who is doing the drafting, although that does matter. The key, IMO, is a willingness to see players outside of the lens of their original draft position once they're on the roster. This is an area where some teams are better than others. Look at the 49ers last year, drafting two RBs - Sermon was drafted much higher than Mitchell, but the latter won the job and is still on the team. They traded up (and paid heavily to do so) for Lance, but also still addressed the QB depth a year later with their selection of Purdy, a choice that I feel confident in saying would have been regarded as a wasted choice here on BBI, if the Giants took a rookie QB in the 7th round a year after taking a presumptive franchise QB in the top 5 overall.
If I were DJ I would want to leave. The guy is a VERY good QB who doesn't get the respect he deserves.
1. They don't pick up his option. (Understandable)but a slap in the face.
2. They never gave him a decent surrounding cast.
3. Unjustified verbal abuse by media and a number of fans.
4. A couch who refuses to say when he's played a great game, and he had a number of them.
IMO it's amazing where he took a not so good team. He's the main reason the Giants made the playoffs, and he gets mostly grief. The rant goes, he was awful in the philly game. Who played well? We have an all pro, Dexter Lawrence, and I love the guy but even he, our all pro played poorly. The game was a train wreck, but DJ was supposed to play great. The kid deserves much better then he's getting here. I will miss him but he should go to where his many talents are more appreciated.
What's your previous (or current alternate) handle?
They have the tag. If you can sign him to a longterm deal that has team flexibility in a couple of years, that's fine. Even at a high AAV. If he's holding out for massive guarantees that completely tie you to him for multiple years, use the tag to buy time. The only way the starter-level contract kills your organization is if he never improves and you are content on settling for mediocrity by never ever looking to upgrade the spot. Sort of how the Vikings and Titans have approached things to this point. We'll see how the Lions approach it this draft.
However, there is the other side. The Eagles got out from under Wentz by drafting a hedge that worked out and the Chiefs got out from Smith by drafting over him. Continue to scout QBs and leave yourself open to upgrading.
overpaid. Guess what, Jones is going to get overpaid. Whether it is with the Giants or some other team, he is going to get his money. I think it is stupid money for most of them.
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
Yes I agree that QBs are overpaid. That doesn't mean the Giants have to fall into the trap and ruin the talent level and depth on the team by giving a middle of the pack QB a stupid amount of money.
Look at the best teams in each conference. The best teams in the AFC have the elite QBs. The best teams in the NFC have the best overall talent and depth, because they have QBs on cheap contracts.
I am not saying there will never be exceptions, but that really is the two paths to winning a Superbowl in today's game.
Paying Jones $40M a year because that is just what the market dictates is a quick way to keeping this team from reaching their goal of a championship.
Tag Jones. That is the only option this year. Either we get 2 first rounders or we lock him in for one year without a long term, cap crippling commitment. Find another guy via the draft, FA, trade, whatever. It is not my job to scout QBs.
But every team that overpays for mediocrity at QB does not have a chance at winning the Superbowl.
Agree about the cap if necessary. That said, that would be brutal for us capwise to get things done that need to be done
Build a team through FA and the draft, tank with Tyrod for a year, draft Caleb Williams and build a true SB contender. This fan base is so starved for wins they'll pay $35 mil a year for a guy who will never win anything meaningful.
I am done with the tanking. Tanking for someone is no guarantee of anything as has been proven time and time again. Winning games and developing a winning culture is more important that getting the top pick in the draft.
RE: I can’t give Jones $40M when these are his passing TD numbers:
I think Jones should be back, and he’s a good player but no on $40M per year. I’d rather franchise him then and challenge him to make the jump Hurts made from 2021 to 2022. Hurts threw for 16 TD’s in 2021.
Man his numbers increased after adding AJ Brown and a second year Devanta Smith, a healthy Sanders, and a healthy Goedert... I can't figure out why his numbers went up ... eyeroll emoji
Quote:
Jones getting $40 million a season? Fuck that!
Agreed, but then we are back to the original question. The thought of QB purgatory (see the Jets, Panthers Commanders, etc) scares me.You know your cost for Jones and what you have in him. Don't need to give up crucial picks to move up, especially when we need so much more than a QB. Hoping that a Hendon Hooker in the 3rd can become our Purdy is really rolling the dice. Hell a 1st round pick is rolling the dice. I loved the other thread where someone said let DJ walk and wait for this years Heisman winner in 2024. That sounds like a super plan.......
Franchise him.
Quote:
Help is coming via the draft. 5 interceptions all year with what they trotted out there is a remarkable achievement. Dual threat qb. The arrow is pointing upwards. He threw an absolute dime to Slayton in the corner of the end zone against Minnesota after the Hodgins catch. I think Jones takes another jump forward next year.
I do have concerns about how he performs when the game speed goes up. Philly plays at another speed. I look forward to asking Sy about this in his game review.
Philly was a buzzsaw. They are loaded. The NYG have guys mainly off the streets and practice squads as our WRs. When they get him the WRs and the pass pro continues to improve he'll be right there after the top 5-6 QBs in the NFL. You can win a SuperBowl with DJ. Just got to put better talent around him.
He's not Burrow.
He's not Burrow.
Burrow will get $50m at least.
Quote:
I thought DJ had a good season. But the idea of shelling out $40 million to him? GTFO.
He's not Burrow.
Burrow will get $50m at least.
How has Dak getting $40M worked out? And he’s thrown over 30 TD’s in a season.
I said this exact thing in a similar thread and got lambasted but it's 100% accurate. Joe Schoen didn't decline a very cost effective option year (was only $22m as I recall) to turn around and use a 2x excluse franchise tag. Bad business and, as you said, a bad look because it signals the 2 sides are not eye to eye.
Front office was obviously pleasantly surprised with the outcome of the season but now they have a QB who won a playoff game. There are a lot of QBs who have never done that. Jones cemented himself in the top 10 pay scale because of that playoff win. He will get somewhere in the $35m - $40m AAV just depends on length. If I was his agent I would take nothing less than market. No home town discounts for a team that didn't even believe in my guy enough to pick up the option year.
Well, I think with there being 8-10 teams desperate for a starting QB someone will pay top dollar. Plenty of examples
- Kyler Murray: 0-1 in the playoffs, $46m AAV
- Derek Carr: 0-1 in the playoffs, $40.5m AAV
- Kirk Cousins: 1-3 in the playoffs, $35 AAV
- Carson Wentz: 0-1 in the playoffs as a starter, $32m AAV
I’d rather that than overpay for someone who isn’t the guy. We are paying Taylor a lot to be a backup. I think that was a mistake by Schoen and Taylor seems to be injured easy.
In any event I think it would be a mistake to move on from Jones since there really are no options. I would still draft a QB to develop. Moving on from Jones sends a bad message to the team. Plus if you move on and don’t make the playoffs you may lose some credibility especially if Jones goes to another team and excels with better talent.
Let's say we let Team Jones to hit the open market to see what type of demand they can generate. If they get a great deal - say AAV $40+, $100+ guaranteed, etc - is it that big of a setback if they sign and leave?
Quote:
Some think he won’t have much of a market if at all. I’m not sure another team is giving him $40M per year. We’ll see.
Let's say we let Team Jones to hit the open market to see what type of demand they can generate. If they get a great deal - say AAV $40+, $100+ guaranteed, etc - is it that big of a setback if they sign and leave?
is this a real question?
not only would they be giving up at least 1 top 50 pick for nothing but they'd have no qb and no high draft pick to get one. tyrod is barely durable enough to be a back up. in the limited action he saw this year he got carted off once and knocked out once.
Quote:
Some think he won’t have much of a market if at all. I’m not sure another team is giving him $40M per year. We’ll see.
Well, I think with there being 8-10 teams desperate for a starting QB someone will pay top dollar. Plenty of examples
- Kyler Murray: 0-1 in the playoffs, $46m AAV
- Derek Carr: 0-1 in the playoffs, $40.5m AAV
- Kirk Cousins: 1-3 in the playoffs, $35 AAV
- Carson Wentz: 0-1 in the playoffs as a starter, $32m AAV
Why didn’t Trubisky have a market then beyond getting back up money? And he drove right down the field in a playoff game against Philly and had the Bears in FG range. The kicker didn’t execute.
I'm not saying they are right or wrong. But I think it is still a question and many here seem to assume Jones gets $40M in the open market.
Maybe not.
Now, to me that doesn’t sound like GM hyperbole and you can’t build around a player on a tag. But hey, maybe that’s just me.
is this a real question?
not only would they be giving up at least 1 top 50 pick for nothing but they'd have no qb and no high draft pick to get one. tyrod is barely durable enough to be a back up. in the limited action he saw this year he got carted off once and knocked out once.
To an extent, yes.
Now, I don't think it's going to happen because the NEFT will likely be applied if a long-term deal can't be reached. So, this probably moot.
At the same time, I don't think any team is coughing up two first round picks for Daniel Jones, either, under the NEFT.
So, if no team is willing to give up that package, let Team Jones test the market for his true value. At which point I see two likely outcomes:
+ Yes, lose Jones to another team who gives him a big deal. At that point, the solutions could be the Carr Sweepstakes or a one-year deal with Mayfield.
+ The market for Jones is soft and we are able to keep him on a multi-year deal cheaper than the AAV than the NEFT.
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And play tyrod Taylor til he’s ready. I’m under the opinion that kaftka (if he stays) and daboll can coach him up like they have with other quarterbacks. I also believe that if we lose Jones we will get at least a #1 back, prob 2 and we can use that pick to take Richardson since I don’t believe he will be there for the giants pick.
I for one do not want to go through 3- 4 seasons of losing and watching horrible football. I have been down the road a lot since I became a fan in 1955, I do not want to go through that again.
So you think committing 20% of the cap to a middle of the pack QB is the answer? The Giants came in third place in the East, and are not close to being able to compete with Dallas and Philly. The Giants will not be getting the cupcake schedule outside of the division that they got this year.
If DJ and his agent are demanding that the Giants overpay him like the other shitty franchises mentioned in this thread have, tag him. It buys them time to find the long term solution while adding talent to the roster.
And for what … to try to beat up (financially) the possible leader of your team and save some money? I don’t think it helps other business or negotiation to be viewed as a cheap and or petty franchise.
If you decide you want the guy make it happen including tag if nec. If not figure out a different plan. Letting someone else decide (go test the market) is weak. ESP with a QB Jmo
2021: 9
2020: 11
2019: 24
I think Jones should be back, and he’s a good player but no on $40M per year. I’d rather franchise him then and challenge him to make the jump Hurts made from 2021 to 2022. Hurts threw for 16 TD’s in 2021.
Hmmm... You know, I actually kinda like the sound of that.
I don't think it will happen at all, but I do think it's very possible that 5 years from now we'll wish it had.
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Jones wants to remain a Giant and the Giants want Jones as their QB. I don't see how a deal isn't agreed to.
Based on what are you stating Authoritatively that Jones wants to remain a Giant, as if it is some sort of common Knowledge?
I'm just basing it off things I've read.
Jones said the day after a 38-7 playoff loss to the Eagles that he wanted to return. With both parties having similar goals, it seems a pretty sure bet it will eventually happen.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35511654/giants-gm-joe-schoen-wants-expects-qb-daniel-jones-return
"I really enjoyed my time here, and I want to be here," Jones said. "I think there's a business side of it all, and a lot of that I can't control. I have love and respect for this organization and ownership and the guys in this locker room. "So I'd love to be here. I really enjoyed being here, and we'll see how it all works out."
He's not Burrow.
If you think Burrow is going for $40 million a year, you are crazy. He will set the market for QB, surpassing Mahomes.
DJ at $35-$40 million per year is the right price considering where the cap will jump in a few years.
If the Giants go 4-13 next year then they are in the running for a QB with potentially a much stronger group of players than what DJ came in with. And they would have had hopefully a good draft this year and cap space in 2014.
Next year they might be an 8-9 team.
Which is the better option?
But I dont think the Giants would do this. They'll keep DJ whether it be 1 year or more.
I still don’t see what anyone sees in Tyrod Taylor…
Kyler Murray – $46.1 million.
Deshaun Watson – $46 million. ...
Patrick Mahomes – $45 million. ...
Josh Allen – $43 million. ...
Derek Carr – $40.5 million. ...
Dak Prescott – $40 million. ...
Matthew Stafford – $40 million. ...
Kirk Cousins – $35 million. ...
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
I was against the Nate Solder signing. Those who argued against me replied, "If not Solder, then who?"
I was against the Nate Solder signing. Those who argued against me replied, "If not Solder, then who?"
Both Solder and the guard(?) were way overpaid. Solder was marginally average at NE.
Jones at QB is better than Solder at LT, but agree with your point.
Kyler Murray – $46.1 million.
Deshaun Watson – $46 million. ...
Patrick Mahomes – $45 million. ...
Josh Allen – $43 million. ...
Derek Carr – $40.5 million. ...
Dak Prescott – $40 million. ...
Matthew Stafford – $40 million. ...
Kirk Cousins – $35 million. ...
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
Yes I agree that QBs are overpaid. That doesn't mean the Giants have to fall into the trap and ruin the talent level and depth on the team by giving a middle of the pack QB a stupid amount of money.
Look at the best teams in each conference. The best teams in the AFC have the elite QBs. The best teams in the NFC have the best overall talent and depth, because they have QBs on cheap contracts.
I am not saying there will never be exceptions, but that really is the two paths to winning a Superbowl in today's game.
Paying Jones $40M a year because that is just what the market dictates is a quick way to keeping this team from reaching their goal of a championship.
Tag Jones. That is the only option this year. Either we get 2 first rounders or we lock him in for one year without a long term, cap crippling commitment. Find another guy via the draft, FA, trade, whatever. It is not my job to scout QBs.
But every team that overpays for mediocrity at QB does not have a chance at winning the Superbowl.
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In comment 16011058 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I thought DJ had a good season. But the idea of shelling out $40 million to him? GTFO.
He's not Burrow.
Burrow will get $50m at least.
How has Dak getting $40M worked out? And he’s thrown over 30 TD’s in a season.
Dallas makes the playoffs every year Dak is healthy.
Again, acting like the entire dallas plan has failed miserably based on the fact that they haven't won the super bowl, and putting it all on the Dak deal alone, is just ridiculous.
Everyone keeos using them as some sort of remember the alamo moment. Dallas just came within 1-2 plays of heading to the NFC title game. Was Dak a problem? YEs, but lets not sit here and act like the entire construct in dallas is some sort of clear proof that paying the QB is foolish. And lastly, no one saw this Dak play coming, even if you think you did, fine you were right in predicting that Dak would regress. Dallas obviously didn't think so. Some QBs don't regress. Some more actually PROGRESS after being paid. IF you think Jones won't regress and actually might progress you fucking pay the guy.
Can we at least acknowledge that Dallas has in fact WON despite paying the RB and the QB? Ok fine, no super bowl.. is that it? What if the Giants pay Jones and then come within inches of winning the whiole thing in 2 years but fail to close? Are we gonna sit here and blast the fucking contract?
You don't get to throw it back. You take your shot like Dallas did EVERY time! You don't sit there 2 years ago and say "well, Dak might be a long shot MVP candidate (he was even if you think otherwise) --and he's in the workout room daily--first to arrive, last to leave. Plasy through pain. Plays WELL, game in game out---but you know what, FUCK THAT--we're letting him walk so we can save money. I will draft a kid.
You sign guys that are keepers. Jones is clearly a legit starting QB in the league. HE can win. You pay him because he's your best option right now. KEep the QB door open and keep grinding and looking for upgrades at every position.
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overpaid. Guess what, Jones is going to get overpaid. Whether it is with the Giants or some other team, he is going to get his money. I think it is stupid money for most of them.
Kyler Murray – $46.1 million.
Deshaun Watson – $46 million. ...
Patrick Mahomes – $45 million. ...
Josh Allen – $43 million. ...
Derek Carr – $40.5 million. ...
Dak Prescott – $40 million. ...
Matthew Stafford – $40 million. ...
Kirk Cousins – $35 million. ...
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
Yes I agree that QBs are overpaid. That doesn't mean the Giants have to fall into the trap and ruin the talent level and depth on the team by giving a middle of the pack QB a stupid amount of money.
Look at the best teams in each conference. The best teams in the AFC have the elite QBs. The best teams in the NFC have the best overall talent and depth, because they have QBs on cheap contracts.
I am not saying there will never be exceptions, but that really is the two paths to winning a Superbowl in today's game.
Paying Jones $40M a year because that is just what the market dictates is a quick way to keeping this team from reaching their goal of a championship.
Tag Jones. That is the only option this year. Either we get 2 first rounders or we lock him in for one year without a long term, cap crippling commitment. Find another guy via the draft, FA, trade, whatever. It is not my job to scout QBs.
But every team that overpays for mediocrity at QB does not have a chance at winning the Superbowl.
Outstanding post!
I was against the Nate Solder signing. Those who argued against me replied, "If not Solder, then who?"
What should you do if you’re hungry though?
I was against the Nate Solder signing. Those who argued against me replied, "If not Solder, then who?"
True
1. They don't pick up his option. (Understandable)but a slap in the face.
2. They never gave him a decent surrounding cast.
3. Unjustified verbal abuse by media and a number of fans.
4. A couch who refuses to say when he's played a great game, and he had a number of them.
IMO it's amazing where he took a not so good team. He's the main reason the Giants made the playoffs, and he gets mostly grief. The rant goes, he was awful in the philly game. Who played well? We have an all pro, Dexter Lawrence, and I love the guy but even he, our all pro played poorly. The game was a train wreck, but DJ was supposed to play great. The kid deserves much better then he's getting here. I will miss him but he should go to where his many talents are more appreciated.
t doesn't matter where you pick, only who does the picking.
Here we go with this same tired narrative that you trot out every year around this time, only now new and improved to include the legend of Brock Purdy.
Neither one of those teams drafted Brady or Purdy to be a starting QB. That either amounted to anything more than just an acceptable use of a roster spot is statistically miraculous. Anything more than that is gravy.
The key isn't even who is doing the drafting, although that does matter. The key, IMO, is a willingness to see players outside of the lens of their original draft position once they're on the roster. This is an area where some teams are better than others. Look at the 49ers last year, drafting two RBs - Sermon was drafted much higher than Mitchell, but the latter won the job and is still on the team. They traded up (and paid heavily to do so) for Lance, but also still addressed the QB depth a year later with their selection of Purdy, a choice that I feel confident in saying would have been regarded as a wasted choice here on BBI, if the Giants took a rookie QB in the 7th round a year after taking a presumptive franchise QB in the top 5 overall.
1. They don't pick up his option. (Understandable)but a slap in the face.
2. They never gave him a decent surrounding cast.
3. Unjustified verbal abuse by media and a number of fans.
4. A couch who refuses to say when he's played a great game, and he had a number of them.
IMO it's amazing where he took a not so good team. He's the main reason the Giants made the playoffs, and he gets mostly grief. The rant goes, he was awful in the philly game. Who played well? We have an all pro, Dexter Lawrence, and I love the guy but even he, our all pro played poorly. The game was a train wreck, but DJ was supposed to play great. The kid deserves much better then he's getting here. I will miss him but he should go to where his many talents are more appreciated.
What's your previous (or current alternate) handle?
However, there is the other side. The Eagles got out from under Wentz by drafting a hedge that worked out and the Chiefs got out from Smith by drafting over him. Continue to scout QBs and leave yourself open to upgrading.
Quote:
overpaid. Guess what, Jones is going to get overpaid. Whether it is with the Giants or some other team, he is going to get his money. I think it is stupid money for most of them.
Kyler Murray – $46.1 million.
Deshaun Watson – $46 million. ...
Patrick Mahomes – $45 million. ...
Josh Allen – $43 million. ...
Derek Carr – $40.5 million. ...
Dak Prescott – $40 million. ...
Matthew Stafford – $40 million. ...
Kirk Cousins – $35 million. ...
Look at that list and see the money. Of the list, only Allen and Mahomes are worth the money - maybe Stafford(if healthy). If Watson returns to pre-sex predator Watson, he would be there too.
Jones is in the Carr/Cousins neighborhood, and probably slightly better - but reasonably equal.
His contract will likely be between $35 and $40 mill AAV (pretty sure it will be ascending).. Guaranteed money will be in the $75 mill range(Team Jones will want $100 gtd) with higher bases in years 4 and 5 so that he can be cut after year 3.
I think all QB contracts are stupid and idiot owners like JJ and Danny Boy have fucked up the cap because of them. (not just those two, there are others - see Cleveland)
I agree with some of the detractors points that it would be nice to get another view of Jones with a better team next year to see just what he really is before a long term debilitating contract. However, if you believe in Schoen and Daboll, then you need to just go with their assessment of Jones. Schoen will know what he can(willing to pay) Jones. I do not think it will be an easy negotiation and may end up extended through the non-exclusive tag.
Jones will be the QB next year, just not sure what contract it will be under.
Yes I agree that QBs are overpaid. That doesn't mean the Giants have to fall into the trap and ruin the talent level and depth on the team by giving a middle of the pack QB a stupid amount of money.
Look at the best teams in each conference. The best teams in the AFC have the elite QBs. The best teams in the NFC have the best overall talent and depth, because they have QBs on cheap contracts.
I am not saying there will never be exceptions, but that really is the two paths to winning a Superbowl in today's game.
Paying Jones $40M a year because that is just what the market dictates is a quick way to keeping this team from reaching their goal of a championship.
Tag Jones. That is the only option this year. Either we get 2 first rounders or we lock him in for one year without a long term, cap crippling commitment. Find another guy via the draft, FA, trade, whatever. It is not my job to scout QBs.
But every team that overpays for mediocrity at QB does not have a chance at winning the Superbowl.
Agree about the cap if necessary. That said, that would be brutal for us capwise to get things done that need to be done
I am done with the tanking. Tanking for someone is no guarantee of anything as has been proven time and time again. Winning games and developing a winning culture is more important that getting the top pick in the draft.
2021: 9
2020: 11
2019: 24
I think Jones should be back, and he’s a good player but no on $40M per year. I’d rather franchise him then and challenge him to make the jump Hurts made from 2021 to 2022. Hurts threw for 16 TD’s in 2021.
Man his numbers increased after adding AJ Brown and a second year Devanta Smith, a healthy Sanders, and a healthy Goedert... I can't figure out why his numbers went up ... eyeroll emoji