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Giants should go all in on stacking the offensive line

CMicks3110 : 1/23/2023 8:51 pm
let's face it, the road to winning the division goes through Dallas and Philly, both of whom have elite O-Lines. We have premeire players on the D-Line, but not depth. KT, DL, LW, AO can't do it all themselves.

I say we really invest heavily at this position. Re-Sign Dalvin Tomlinson, Trade for Vita Vea. Add a strong edge rusher in the draft who is stouter against the run than Azeez; and maybe someone like Chris Wormley to play the Jihad Ward role.

Schoen/Beane followed this model in Buffalo--they stacked their D-Line the last several years with Ed Oliver, Greg Rousseau, AJ Epensana, Jordan Phillips, Boogie Basham, Von Miller; Star Loutloui, Jerry Hughes and Harrison Phillips in 21.

The depth has to be a big part of slowing philly down.

Also sign T.J. Edwards for the middle. Would love to trade for Jalen Ramsey if possible too.

If we can't counter philly and dallas at te LOS we'll never catch them.

Not quite as worried about O-Line, just think we need competent receivers, not bottom barrell.
Did you mean  
Carl in CT : 1/23/2023 8:54 pm : link
DL?
And have James, Hodgins and Slayton  
BillT : 1/23/2023 8:55 pm : link
As our top 3 WR again. Good plan.
Schoen’s been hot garbage  
giantBCP : 1/23/2023 8:58 pm : link
at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.
RE: Did you mean  
Angel Eyes : 1/23/2023 8:58 pm : link
In comment 16011078 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
DL?

Beat me to it.
The difference was apparent  
Blueworm : 1/23/2023 8:59 pm : link
against the Eagles.

This is a pushing and shoving game, and you need the best pushers and shovers.
My brother in law is an Eagles fan  
Jay on the Island : 1/23/2023 9:00 pm : link
He is a bit of a homer and yet he doesn't want them to re-sign TJ Edwards unless he's cheap. Edwards is not what the Giants need as he is a solid run defender but poor in pass coverage. The Giants need an ILB that can help cover TE's and RB's out of the backfield.
RE: My brother in law is an Eagles fan  
Angel Eyes : 1/23/2023 9:02 pm : link
In comment 16011085 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
He is a bit of a homer and yet he doesn't want them to re-sign TJ Edwards unless he's cheap. Edwards is not what the Giants need as he is a solid run defender but poor in pass coverage. The Giants need an ILB that can help cover TE's and RB's out of the backfield.

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be what Wink has in mind since both McFadden and Beavers, whom we drafted, had clear limitations in space and coverage.
RE: RE: My brother in law is an Eagles fan  
Ira : 1/23/2023 9:08 pm : link
In comment 16011088 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 16011085 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


He is a bit of a homer and yet he doesn't want them to re-sign TJ Edwards unless he's cheap. Edwards is not what the Giants need as he is a solid run defender but poor in pass coverage. The Giants need an ILB that can help cover TE's and RB's out of the backfield.


Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be what Wink has in mind since both McFadden and Beavers, whom we drafted, had clear limitations in space and coverage.


Wink likes to use extra safeties to cover te's and rb's.
I meant defensive line  
CMicks3110 : 1/23/2023 9:10 pm : link
sorry
RE: The difference was apparent  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/23/2023 9:11 pm : link
In comment 16011084 Blueworm said:
Quote:
against the Eagles.

This is a pushing and shoving game, and you need the best pushers and shovers.


BULLSHIT! All their skill positions were better than ours. You dont need to pass block long if you have fast elite weapons that get open, again - faster... and catch! AND SCORE. The fuck outta here. Look at the bengals! tHEY HAVE 3 #1'S.

Did any of you posters play football at even a d1 level? d2? Its fucking mind boggling. We could have Ogden and Pace at every spot on the line and block for 60 fucking minutes but it would be worthless if their secondary locked down our "skills" position players.
Oh and another thing.  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/23/2023 9:13 pm : link
Thew d line is overrated af.

the eagles has double digit sacks across the board because their secondary!!!
I’ve been saying this for years  
theking : 1/23/2023 9:14 pm : link
Draft these huge monsters, all of the early rounder 6’5+ 330lbs+ lineman and run it down their throats. These big bodies tire the shit out of the modern NFL Defensive line.. problem is it isn’t an explosive offense.
RE: I’ve been saying this for years  
Pepe LePugh : 1/23/2023 9:53 pm : link
In comment 16011100 theking said:
Quote:
Draft these huge monsters, all of the early rounder 6’5+ 330lbs+ lineman and run it down their throats. These big bodies tire the shit out of the modern NFL Defensive line.. problem is it isn’t an explosive offense.


It worked for Dallas. How many playoff wins again?
I was gonna say..  
Breeze_94 : 1/23/2023 10:05 pm : link
OL appears to be set for next year - with the exception of Center. McKethan and Ezeudu the upside guys, Bredeson & Glo the stop gaps at G. OT obviously set.

But I do like the idea of adding to the DL. Especially since Leo may not be back after 23'. They can't go into 2023 planning to play LW & Dex on 80%+ of snaps. Davidson is a rotational run stuffer, but besides that nobody else has staying power on the IDL.

The only depth at Edge is a UDFA, Fox, who is more of a 4th/5th Edge.

The 3 best teams in the NFC this year were all built around strong defensive fronts with deep rotations that can put pressure on the opposing QB. It's no coincidence, especially in a conference with weak QB play. A strong DL can carry you the SB.
i agree about adding a lot on DL - there are 2 49er free agents  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2023 10:11 pm : link
charles omenihu (54% snaps) - 4.5 sacks
samson ebukam (59% snaps) - 5 sacks

neither has made much in their career and neither has proven enough to get a big deal. sign both of them to 1 year deals with upside, draft a couple front 7 guys in the top 150, get Davidson back healthy. the Sf guys combined had almost 100 pressures this year.

the lack of depth in the front 7 got badly exposed. need to add an entire quality 2nd unit that pushes to get time in the starting unit.
Really liked Tomlinson, was sorry to see him go, but  
81_Great_Dane : 1/23/2023 10:12 pm : link
don't re-sign him. Draft a replacement.

You want a sustained run? Fill holes with cheap prospects on rookie deals. Keep the stars, let the rest get their second contract somewhere else. Take the comp picks and use them to draft more prospects.


RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
santacruzom : 1/24/2023 3:16 am : link
In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:
Quote:
at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.


Yeah, every one of his drafts have failed to bring players who developed into good linemen. Because he's only had one draft, and the linemen he drafted only played one year.
RE: RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
giantBCP : 1/24/2023 6:29 am : link
In comment 16011292 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:


Quote:


at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.



Yeah, every one of his drafts have failed to bring players who developed into good linemen. Because he's only had one draft, and the linemen he drafted only played one year.


I’m including his FA acquisitions of Glowinski and Feliciano as well, who were nothing but mediocre and were paid much more than their level of play would indicate. I’m glad that you acknowledge that the OL he drafted were poor in year one.
From reading the board  
Jersey Heel : 1/24/2023 6:46 am : link
The past few days, it seems the Giants simply need to invest in every position on the field. Should be no problem.
RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
DefenseWins : 1/24/2023 6:53 am : link
In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:
Quote:
at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.


Yeah this is just stupid..
The guy was handed a team with no cap room at all. The offensive line this year played better than what we have seen in the past 5+ years.
RE: RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
Big Blue '56 : 1/24/2023 7:29 am : link
In comment 16011311 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:


Quote:


at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.



Yeah this is just stupid..
The guy was handed a team with no cap room at all. The offensive line this year played better than what we have seen in the past 5+ years.


Understand who’s posting..😎
This will be a two year  
section125 : 1/24/2023 7:32 am : link
process to improve enough to get close to Philly, Dallas and SF.
I expect Schoen to re-sign his core guys, draft BPAs and then do what he did last year - pick up pieces as they become available throughout the season.
Schoen will earn his money trying to improve the roster in bits and pieces, while conserving the cap for future additions/signing (remember the carry over). He will not go for the "kill shot"(shop while hungry) in one season.

Players I thought were automatic re-signs may not be if they ask too much, i.e. Love and Barkley.
Now  
DG_89 : 1/24/2023 7:48 am : link
that there'll be cap room, we can only hope for improved depth to give Dex and Leo some rest during games. Not to mention finding that 3rd guy to not only compliment them but also serve as insurance in case a deal can't be reached and Leo leaves.

We get Davidson back from the ACL and an off-season for Anderson to get stronger and maybe add a couple pounds.

As for EDGE? I think it'll be a vet pickup/draft pick combo. We can do better than Ximines and Smith looks like he can't be counted on
they have Ezeudu and McKethan coming back so that should  
Victor in CT : 1/24/2023 8:13 am : link
bring in some young competition at G. Neal will be better. To me the big need is at C. I think Gates > Feliciano, but I'm not sure how much the coaches like him, so whether it's the draft or in FA, that has to be addressed.
RE: RE: RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
BigBlueShock : 1/24/2023 8:20 am : link
In comment 16011325 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16011311 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:


Quote:


at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.



Yeah this is just stupid..
The guy was handed a team with no cap room at all. The offensive line this year played better than what we have seen in the past 5+ years.



Understand who’s posting..😎

Exactly. giantBCP isn’t only the worst poster on the board but he’s 100% trolling. His incessant over the top criticism of Schoen is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen on this site. He’s either trolling or Schoen plowed his girlfriend and he can’t let it go.

“Schoen didn’t fix this entire team in one offseason and instantly turn them into Super Bowl Champions overnight, he sucks so bad!!!!”. Fucking clown show.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
Producer : 1/24/2023 9:06 am : link
In comment 16011396 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16011325 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16011311 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:


Quote:


at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.



Yeah this is just stupid..
The guy was handed a team with no cap room at all. The offensive line this year played better than what we have seen in the past 5+ years.



Understand who’s posting..😎


Exactly. giantBCP isn’t only the worst poster on the board but he’s 100% trolling. His incessant over the top criticism of Schoen is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen on this site. He’s either trolling or Schoen plowed his girlfriend and he can’t let it go.

“Schoen didn’t fix this entire team in one offseason and instantly turn them into Super Bowl Champions overnight, he sucks so bad!!!!”. Fucking clown show.


He seems to be mad that Schoen didn't pick up Jones' option. He has said, more or less, he wants Schoen to get embarrassed by having to submit to Team Jones' contract demands, and he hopes it is an exorbitant deal. It's a strange position for a Giants fan to take.
RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
Dr. D : 1/24/2023 9:07 am : link
In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:
Quote:
at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.

Wow. He's been here for 1 year. Had only 1 legit starting OL (AT), when he arrived. Had negative cap space. Had 1 draft (not unusual for rookie OL to struggle).

If you're going to judge him as hot garbage, based on this one year, I don't think you're a very wise judge.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen’s been hot garbage  
BigBlueShock : 1/24/2023 9:08 am : link
In comment 16011469 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 16011396 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 16011325 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16011311 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


In comment 16011082 giantBCP said:


Quote:


at his OL acquisitions. If we’re going to allocate resources somewhere, you might as well do it at a position where you’ve shown the ability to get value.



Yeah this is just stupid..
The guy was handed a team with no cap room at all. The offensive line this year played better than what we have seen in the past 5+ years.



Understand who’s posting..😎


Exactly. giantBCP isn’t only the worst poster on the board but he’s 100% trolling. His incessant over the top criticism of Schoen is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen on this site. He’s either trolling or Schoen plowed his girlfriend and he can’t let it go.

“Schoen didn’t fix this entire team in one offseason and instantly turn them into Super Bowl Champions overnight, he sucks so bad!!!!”. Fucking clown show.



He seems to be mad that Schoen didn't pick up Jones' option. He has said, more or less, he wants Schoen to get embarrassed by having to submit to Team Jones' contract demands, and he hopes it is an exorbitant deal. It's a strange position for a Giants fan to take.

Haha. Unbelievable
both lines  
Dave : 1/24/2023 9:09 am : link
the game is won or lost in the trenches
We didn’t have a ton of resources  
giantBCP : 1/24/2023 9:16 am : link
but the majority of the resources we did have, were put into the OL, and the performance we saw from these players was not commensurate with what we invested.

You folks can’t have it both ways. The bashing of Neal, Glowinski, and Feliciano was extensive this season, from a large contingent on this board. You can’t acknowledge their poor performance, while putting a positive light on the GM that put them in place.

As far as the OP is concerned, I actually do agree that investing in the OL is needed, but a large part of that thinking is due to the poor choices that Schoen made in year 1.
Glow and Fel  
fkap : 1/24/2023 9:29 am : link
were stopgaps. Any notion that they were supposed to be a solution was misguided. Neither set the world on fire, with Glow being a particular dud.

Neal was a rookie, and played like one. Reserve judgement on him til after next year.

Overall, the OL made a step forward last year. I wouldn't grade the improvement as an A, but considering the financial limitations, Schoen didn't flub.
I continue to struggle knowing whether someone is a troll  
Dr. D : 1/24/2023 9:32 am : link
vs. whether they're just not very wise (or have a mental disorder).

The Schoen has been "hot garbage" post has me perplexed again.

Can someone really believe that in 1 offseason, with negative cap space, Schoen should've corrected our OL that has sucked for a decade and had only 1 legit starter when he arrived?

Might they also believe Schoen should be able to walk on water and heal the dead?
Yes  
fkap : 1/24/2023 9:34 am : link
stellar lines would be great. but other units are such hot garbage that Giants can't afford to concentrate too much on the lines.

No such thing as pure BPA or need, but when spending FA dollars, or drafting, BPA should be the emphasis since need is pretty much everywhere. We don't have the luxury of stacking any particular unit.
Would start marketing Leonard Williams for a potential trade  
chick310 : 1/24/2023 9:39 am : link
while his on the field value can still be supported but allows Schoen to shed that abomination of a contract.

Invest the exta money in a slighter deeper (better) rotation of medium priced guys from free agency that can support Dex who is the true core player on that D-Line. And draft Leo's replacement with the extra pick you get for him.

Keep churning the roster, sometimes even at the top.
He didn’t get value  
giantBCP : 1/24/2023 9:57 am : link
for any one of his four main OL acquisitions (Glow, Feliciano, Neal, and Ezeudu). He did poor work in this area, and I don’t see how it’s debatable.
Neal and Ezuedu  
fkap : 1/24/2023 10:31 am : link
were rookies.

Glow/Fel were bargain basement acquisitions.

All told, the OL improved. The rookies should get better. Plus, it's way too soon to judge yea or nay.

The other two are stopgaps who do not prevent improvement in the future.

Anyone expecting more needs to reevaluate their expectations.

I will grant that Neal's production was a bit worrisome, but way too early to write him off.
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