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Is Leo Injured? Cooked?

Rafflee : 1/23/2023 10:44 pm
He was totally unproductive
Hes had his moments but it may be time to move on from him.  
Jack Stroud : 1/23/2023 10:51 pm : link
There are some good DT's in the draft, or maybe a FA that has something left in the tank. I think the giants would also save a bunch of cap money.
He played through injuries all year  
Giantimistic : 1/23/2023 10:52 pm : link
And it was noticeable when he was out. He should be extended if anything.
I hope not cooked  
islander1 : 1/23/2023 10:54 pm : link
Because we're stuck with him imo.
You haven't been paying attention..  
bLiTz 2k : 1/23/2023 10:57 pm : link
He's had a bad neck all year.
At Phil, he and Dex  
Since1965 : 1/23/2023 10:59 pm : link
were often double teamed.
How  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 11:07 pm : link
do you not know he was battling neck/stinger issues all year? Even a casual fan who checks out any Giants-related website knew that.

He's been an iron-man throughout his career.

RE: I hope not cooked  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/23/2023 11:10 pm : link
In comment 16011232 islander1 said:
Quote:
Because we're stuck with him imo.


You may want to go back and re-read Sy'56 game reviews on Leonard Williams and his impact on this defense.
Look Eric  
Daniel in MI : 1/23/2023 11:54 pm : link
I’ve been cheering for Baby Blue since the days of #55, Elti. No one played full backer like him. And Harry Styleson, the man in the middle, number 54! Heck I even remember Why Ey Titties and him kneeling on the field. I remember when they skywrote “15 lousy years of football is not enough”. I remember little Jim Morrison running for a touchdown with no sock, and Spider Lockout. I remember all that stuff. Big Mackerel getting the champagne sprayed on him. Don’t question whether I follow this team carefully. Let’s re-sign Dow Jones and hope S’Kwanza Barklee can be an all pro TE again. Next year maybe we make the playoffs if Joe Judge gets it together.
RE: Look Eric  
PEEJ : 1/23/2023 11:59 pm : link
In comment 16011267 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
I’ve been cheering for Baby Blue since the days of #55, Elti. No one played full backer like him. And Harry Styleson, the man in the middle, number 54! Heck I even remember Why Ey Titties and him kneeling on the field. I remember when they skywrote “15 lousy years of football is not enough”. I remember little Jim Morrison running for a touchdown with no sock, and Spider Lockout. I remember all that stuff. Big Mackerel getting the champagne sprayed on him. Don’t question whether I follow this team carefully. Let’s re-sign Dow Jones and hope S’Kwanza Barklee can be an all pro TE again. Next year maybe we make the playoffs if Joe Judge gets it together.


I enjoy your sense of humor
My only problem with Leo  
Breeze_94 : 1/24/2023 12:35 am : link
is that he is a 'B or B+' level player getting paid 'A+' money.

He was prob at best a top 10ish guy in 2020 but that seems to have been his peak. Present day he is maybe...maybe...a top 20-25 IDL.

He's only 28 so I don't think he's washed. Has dealt with injuries the last 2 years which may be part of the reason for the regression in production. But it's not like he was awful- PFF graded him at a 78 on the year so he was the teams second best defensive player by that measure.
RE: RE: I hope not cooked  
islander1 : 1/24/2023 1:06 am : link
In comment 16011243 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16011232 islander1 said:


Quote:


Because we're stuck with him imo.



You may want to go back and re-read Sy'56 game reviews on Leonard Williams and his impact on this defense.


I'll do that this week.
No he’s in his prime  
Tuckrule : 1/24/2023 7:00 am : link
And a huge reason why dex is so good. Take Lenny out and out Ryder Anderson or Ellis next to Dex and he doesn’t sniff all pro
Why are Giants fans so dumb sometimes?  
Chris684 : 1/24/2023 7:07 am : link
Are other fanbases like this too?
LW was injured  
section125 : 1/24/2023 7:07 am : link
and played injured almost all year. He is not worth his $32 mill next season, but Schoen will work that out. Probably a 2-3 year extension that will spread out the gtd money. Yes DG overpaid him. But at 28, he is nowhere near cooked.

Now, if Schoen can get two DTs that can eat some plays next season so that he and Dex are playing 85%+ of the snaps he will be more effective and less likely to be injured, as will Dex.
RE: LW was injured  
section125 : 1/24/2023 7:09 am : link
In comment 16011315 section125 said:
Quote:
and played injured almost all year. He is not worth his $32 mill next season, but Schoen will work that out. Probably a 2-3 year extension that will spread out the gtd money. Yes DG overpaid him. But at 28, he is nowhere near cooked.

Now, if Schoen can get two DTs that can eat some plays next season so that he and Dex are playing 85%+ of the snaps he will be more effective and less likely to be injured, as will Dex.


"aren't" playing 85%+ of the snaps he will be more effective
The man’s a physical mensch.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/24/2023 7:28 am : link
Still in prime. With rest, he’ll be good to go..Love this guy. A fucking warrior.
cap hit  
Hilary : 1/24/2023 7:32 am : link
LW cap hit 32 million 2023 6 million 2024. His contract will be re worked or extended to reduce cap hit in 23.
neck injury  
bc4life : 1/24/2023 7:58 am : link
started out as a stinger, does not think it will require surgery
there's a lot of stupid here, staring with Leo was "unproductive"  
Victor in CT : 1/24/2023 8:06 am : link
jeez get a clue.

but it's true they may have to move on if they can't restructure his contract. He's been a good player and teammate here. And when he's out they get killed at the LOS
RE: Look Eric  
Crispino : 1/24/2023 8:15 am : link
In comment 16011267 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
I’ve been cheering for Baby Blue since the days of #55, Elti. No one played full backer like him. And Harry Styleson, the man in the middle, number 54! Heck I even remember Why Ey Titties and him kneeling on the field. I remember when they skywrote “15 lousy years of football is not enough”. I remember little Jim Morrison running for a touchdown with no sock, and Spider Lockout. I remember all that stuff. Big Mackerel getting the champagne sprayed on him. Don’t question whether I follow this team carefully. Let’s re-sign Dow Jones and hope S’Kwanza Barklee can be an all pro TE again. Next year maybe we make the playoffs if Joe Judge gets it together.


I loved it when Jim Morrison would hit the hole and break on through to the other side.
RE: My only problem with Leo  
Stu11 : 1/24/2023 8:19 am : link
In comment 16011278 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:

He was prob at best a top 10ish guy in 2020 but that seems to have been his peak. Present day he is maybe...maybe...a top 20-25 IDL.

This was my favorite comment in the thread. Are you friggen kidding me??? Top 10ish in 2020? outside of Aaron Donald he was probably the 2nd best interior DL in football that year. He basically won us 2 games by himself- the Seattle and Dallas games. Yeah top "10ish"...
RE: LW was injured  
Costy16 : 1/24/2023 8:34 am : link
In comment 16011315 section125 said:
Quote:
and played injured almost all year. He is not worth his $32 mill next season, but Schoen will work that out. Probably a 2-3 year extension that will spread out the gtd money. Yes DG overpaid him. But at 28, he is nowhere near cooked.

Now, if Schoen can get two DTs that can eat some plays next season so that he and Dex are playing 85%+ of the snaps he will be more effective and less likely to be injured, as will Dex.


I think DT is definitely in the cards for a pick in the 2nd-4th round.
A lot of you guys are getting on the OP  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/24/2023 8:42 am : link
But we all know Williams is not worth anywhere near what he is set to earn this upcoming season. If a significant decrease is not worked out it is a no brainer to cut him considering it would save $18 million against the cap. I do like him and would want him back at the right price and the injury doesn’t scare me with how durable he’s been in the past.
RE: My only problem with Leo  
MNP70 : 1/24/2023 8:55 am : link
In comment 16011278 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
is that he is a 'B or B+' level player getting paid 'A+' money.

He was prob at best a top 10ish guy in 2020 but that seems to have been his peak. Present day he is maybe...maybe...a top 20-25 IDL.

He's only 28 so I don't think he's washed. Has dealt with injuries the last 2 years which may be part of the reason for the regression in production. But it's not like he was awful- PFF graded him at a 78 on the year so he was the teams second best defensive player by that measure.


You base his performance exactly how?
its not a wild conversation  
mphbullet36 : 1/24/2023 10:00 am : link
re-worked contract? How about a pay cut. He isn't worth that kind of money and he even admitted it himself.
 
christian : 1/24/2023 10:04 am : link
His production has he been substantially limited by injury the last two years and he’s heading into his 9th NFL season. I think some of you are lying to yourselves about his durability.

His rate of productivity has decline each of the last two years, directly in line with his durability.
Our run defense was horrendous this year  
Essex : 1/24/2023 10:08 am : link
I can't say I can put a finger on why--yes the LBs were awful but the DL was not very good against the run either.
RE: …  
mphbullet36 : 1/24/2023 10:11 am : link
In comment 16011605 christian said:
Quote:
His production has he been substantially limited by injury the last two years and he’s heading into his 9th NFL season. I think some of you are lying to yourselves about his durability.

His rate of productivity has decline each of the last two years, directly in line with his durability.


yeah you have to ask yourself would he even get half what he's making now on the open market? And that would be no and a lot of that is because he hasn't been a durable player recently and he is going to be 29 going into the season. Not really going into him prime.
RE: Our run defense was horrendous this year  
Angel Eyes : 1/24/2023 10:15 am : link
In comment 16011614 Essex said:
Quote:
I can't say I can put a finger on why--yes the LBs were awful but the DL was not very good against the run either.

Is it possibly because most of the time there were only two DL on the field (Thibodeaux and Ojulari don't count as DL)? If there's only two DL and the OLBs are one-on-one with the tackles, at least one offensive lineman can blow at least one ILB out of the play while the other can't chase down the ball carrier.
He is one of the teams better players  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/24/2023 10:31 am : link
and he is one tough son of a gun. Now injuries is something to consider but JS should have a good take on that. I think they go for the extension but like all players JS will set a value.

Wink loves him and it was interesting that he actually seemed to play more plays then Lawrence. Both played way too many plays but that was because the drop off was significant when they were out.

I have no clue how one can question his ability and production.
RE: its not a wild conversation  
Red Right Hand : 1/24/2023 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16011595 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
re-worked contract? How about a pay cut. He isn't worth that kind of money and he even admitted it himself.
Yeah, how about that. Lemme know how that works out for you.
clarity…: i am a Big Leo Fan!  
Rafflee : 1/25/2023 7:53 am : link
My brevity may have given people the wrong idea..:: Leo HAS BEEN a great player. The second half of the year was much less productive than his own standard, and his play was “rotational level” at best, NOT starter or Star on an aspiring team.

If you think it’s dumb to question the playing future of a 29 year old with 9 years of High Snap counts and recent injury problems, then I just must conclude that you’re not up for a reasoned conversation. Add to that his cap hit versus his current level, and there’s a reason to ask “Is he injured or cooked?”. THAT is exactly the question that must be asked prior to any consideration of a cutting or extending him!….. JEEZ!!!
RE: clarity…: i am a Big Leo Fan!  
Victor in CT : 1/25/2023 9:40 am : link
In comment 16013094 Rafflee said:
Quote:
My brevity may have given people the wrong idea..:: Leo HAS BEEN a great player. The second half of the year was much less productive than his own standard, and his play was “rotational level” at best, NOT starter or Star on an aspiring team.

If you think it’s dumb to question the playing future of a 29 year old with 9 years of High Snap counts and recent injury problems, then I just must conclude that you’re not up for a reasoned conversation. Add to that his cap hit versus his current level, and there’s a reason to ask “Is he injured or cooked?”. THAT is exactly the question that must be asked prior to any consideration of a cutting or extending him!….. JEEZ!!!


had you not said he was "totally unproductive" in the OP you would have caught a lot less grief. Your other points are sound.
RE: RE: clarity…: i am a Big Leo Fan!  
Rafflee : 1/25/2023 1:09 pm : link
In comment 16013236 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 16013094 Rafflee said:


Quote:


My brevity may have given people the wrong idea..:: Leo HAS BEEN a great player. The second half of the year was much less productive than his own standard, and his play was “rotational level” at best, NOT starter or Star on an aspiring team.

If you think it’s dumb to question the playing future of a 29 year old with 9 years of High Snap counts and recent injury problems, then I just must conclude that you’re not up for a reasoned conversation. Add to that his cap hit versus his current level, and there’s a reason to ask “Is he injured or cooked?”. THAT is exactly the question that must be asked prior to any consideration of a cutting or extending him!….. JEEZ!!!



had you not said he was "totally unproductive" in the OP you would have caught a lot less grief. Your other points are sound.
... I was reacting and commenting about the game versus Philly, with a question about his present and future ability. Leo has had a tremendous run here, and He's been at a top level as a quality Defensive Player.
Jeez, the IQ of the everyday Giant fan  
aimrocky : 1/25/2023 1:11 pm : link
is dropping like a rock...
 
christian : 1/25/2023 1:17 pm : link
When Leo is well he’s a force, and when he’s not, he’s not.

His obvious drop in production directly correlates to his injuries.
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