Great guy. Hard worker. Good teammate. Worthy Captain.
Not an exceptional running back anymore. Go look at his highlights from this year versus his highlights in his rookie year. He was special. He is not anymore.
Even if one thinks running backs should get high cost second deals (and I don't), Barkley is not one who should.
We will see what the team does, but I think he either gets a much lower contract than people think he will get, or he walks (and still gets much less than people think he will). I don't see him being worth the FT and I don't think if you FT him he has any trade value. All of this is exacerbated by the number of running backs available in FA this year. It is the opposite of WR where Darius Slayton is one of the better FAs available.
OK maybe this was only my opinion and not the truth, but I usually don't admit to a distinction between those two!
The shoulder injury also limited him for several games.
He is going into his 6th year. When RB’s do begin to slow down a bit…see Zeke Elliott.
The shoulder injury also limited him for several games.
He is going into his 6th year. When RB’s do begin to slow down a bit…see Zeke Elliott.
Saquon does not have nearly the miles and abuse that Zeke has.
I saw a really productive back this year that’s worth paying for a few years. And he’s worth way more than the tag amount, not even sure how that’s debatable. But I trust Schoen, so I’m good with whatever happens.
However, I don't think any RB is worth a big contract.
I love him, think he's a great great guy. But would never pay him over 12 million.
Proceed with caution.
Full disclosure... I thought Barkley ran gun-shy in 2021. When a player gets like that, he seldom finds his toughness again.
Barkley did in 2022. I was very impressed with the way he reinvented himself as a far more physical and tougher running back.
Some may remember that I posted before the season that the best scenario for the Giants was for Barkley to have a tremendous first half and then for the Giants to trade him before the deadline when his value was the highest. However, the unforeseen 6-2 start prevented that. But at the time, I posted I thought we had not seen the best of Barkley yet because we had not seen the 2018-type big runs.
Problem is we never did. I'm not sure he has that extra gear anymore. And for better or worse, the Giants' coaching staff thinks his sweet spot in touches is <20 per game. He's used as much as a threat now as actual weapon.
How much is that worth? I'm not sure it is $12-14 million per year.
I think there is a place for him on this roster but I think it should be at a price that I have a feeling he wouldn’t like.
When we drafted him I figured we were going to get at least a handful of seasons like his rookie year and it just hasn’t panned out.
Full disclosure... I thought Barkley ran gun-shy in 2021. When a player gets like that, he seldom finds his toughness again.
Barkley did in 2022. I was very impressed with the way he reinvented himself as a far more physical and tougher running back.
Some may remember that I posted before the season that the best scenario for the Giants was for Barkley to have a tremendous first half and then for the Giants to trade him before the deadline when his value was the highest. However, the unforeseen 6-2 start prevented that. But at the time, I posted I thought we had not seen the best of Barkley yet because we had not seen the 2018-type big runs.
Problem is we never did. I'm not sure he has that extra gear anymore. And for better or worse, the Giants' coaching staff thinks his sweet spot in touches is <20 per game. He's used as much as a threat now as actual weapon.
How much is that worth? I'm not sure it is $12-14 million per year.
I think he looked really good when he was at full health and full strength. Still a top-5 RB. But the risks remain.
Proceed with caution.
I wish people would stop with the injury prone/injury risk monicker. Every RB is an injury risk. Not many Henry's or CMCs in the league. Dalvin Cook is in the same boat as Saquon.
He had an ACL on a hit to the side of the knee and a high ankle sprain.
“He’s a good player and a GREAT teammate”. That was a calculated statement.
I don't think he has the speed he had. Probably because he's a few years older and he's bulked up some. Barkley in his rookie year, would have never been caught on that 40 yard run he had the other day against Philly. That would have been 6.
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and risk for decline.
Proceed with caution.
I wish people would stop with the injury prone/injury risk monicker. Every RB is an injury risk. Not many Henry's or CMCs in the league. Dalvin Cook is in the same boat as Saquon.
He had an ACL on a hit to the side of the knee and a high ankle sprain.
McCaffrey missed huge chunks of 2020 and 2021 with injuries.
He actually looked like he might have been done after last year. He couldn't stay healthy. This year was a surprise.
Full disclosure... I thought Barkley ran gun-shy in 2021. When a player gets like that, he seldom finds his toughness again.
Barkley did in 2022. I was very impressed with the way he reinvented himself as a far more physical and tougher running back.
Some may remember that I posted before the season that the best scenario for the Giants was for Barkley to have a tremendous first half and then for the Giants to trade him before the deadline when his value was the highest. However, the unforeseen 6-2 start prevented that. But at the time, I posted I thought we had not seen the best of Barkley yet because we had not seen the 2018-type big runs.
Problem is we never did. I'm not sure he has that extra gear anymore. And for better or worse, the Giants' coaching staff thinks his sweet spot in touches is <20 per game. He's used as much as a threat now as actual weapon.
How much is that worth? I'm not sure it is $12-14 million per year.
To me the biggest difference between 2018 Barkley and 2022 edition:
Declining Eli throwing to OBJ, Engram and peak, healthy Shep demanded more attention from defenses than ascending DJ throwing to Hodgins, James and Bellinger.
He's an asset to NYG on and off the field. I'd be happy to keep him and not create another hole to fill, and offering him 3/36 during the bye week is an indication NYG feels the same. I think this an extension of feeling he's a special individual to the franchise, as well as the fanbase. He's going to get some preferential treatment, imv.
He came back with weird shoulder pads and ran stiff as a board after that. I'm not sure why a shoulder injury would affect speed but maybe his back/neck hurt when he ran.
In any event, this is a guy who's play is dramatically affected by injury. That's a tough deal in the NFL.
Full disclosure... I thought Barkley ran gun-shy in 2021. When a player gets like that, he seldom finds his toughness again.
Barkley did in 2022. I was very impressed with the way he reinvented himself as a far more physical and tougher running back.
Some may remember that I posted before the season that the best scenario for the Giants was for Barkley to have a tremendous first half and then for the Giants to trade him before the deadline when his value was the highest. However, the unforeseen 6-2 start prevented that. But at the time, I posted I thought we had not seen the best of Barkley yet because we had not seen the 2018-type big runs.
Recall several posters on here put up that same scenario.
Ironic that recovering the best value on Saquon going forward was spoiled because the Giants had a good 2022 season.
Hopefully that doesn't get in the way again (just kidding)
Bring in a couple more receivers and you’ll see more big runs from Barkley.
The ideal format for Barkley is about 12-15 carries per game and at least 5 targets through the air. I’d like to see them run something similar to the 49ers in terms of how they rotate CMC and Eli Mitchell.
It's hard for me to be objective about it as a Giants fan.
This roster management is part of any long term deal.
It's also no stretch to question how long he'll last. He even had a comment mid-season saying something to the effect of "I play running back in the NFL", acknowledging the cumulative wear and tear is real and he was feeling it.
Would be great if the Giants can find a Pollard type to complement him. But that's a luxury right now, there's a far greater need to build a better interior OL, and paying Saquon too much hinders that effort.
2) In his rookie season he had a legitimate dangerous threat on the outside in OBJ which means safeties cant cheat up and stack the box. Saquon is the only TRUE threat on the offense. Defense gear up to stop him. No one is scared of Slayton, James and Hodgins.
3) In His rookie year Shurmur used him all over. He caught 91 passes with a 75% catch rate. He was used all over. Not just out the backfield. He lined up in the slot. He lined up on the wing. Shurmur put him in positions where he would be a nightmare for a LB to cover. He hasnt been used that way consistently SINCE his rookie season.
That being said. I think he has value. I think that value is an average of 13 million a year.
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and risk for decline.
Proceed with caution.
I wish people would stop with the injury prone/injury risk monicker. Every RB is an injury risk. Not many Henry's or CMCs in the league. Dalvin Cook is in the same boat as Saquon.
He had an ACL on a hit to the side of the knee and a high ankle sprain.
If every running back is an injury risk it follows that the best strategy is to spread your money around on the position rather than loading up on one top back.
Unless it's Frank Gore, who's future I fear for after that many years of his body taking a beating.
I don't think Schoen is going to reach for the stars. If another team signs him away, there will by hype surrounding the signing. The talking heads will be convinced that this is that team's "final piece", and there will be "doom and gloom" from many BBI posters. Many will start call for Schoen's pink slip, irrationally.
Schoen is a value guy, and I like it. If it means losing Barkley, then so be it. Obviously we'd all like Barkley to stay, but if letting him sign elsewhere gets multiple contracts done of lesser players high value players, then in the long run, it will be a good thing.
Saquon is still a young player with not a ton of carries under his belt. I'd prefer to keep him. Hopefully they can work out the financials.
$12-14M for this type of production is a good deal, a WR like this would cost $20M. Plus I'm of the opinion that our other "practice squad" level skill players on offense will look a lot worse without Barkley. Again my opinion, but a lot of the opportunities they got were because the defense would follow Barkley around. How many times did you see a fake to Barkley take the whole defense with him?
I know it is BBI's DNA to always want to get rid of your best players and not pay them for some crazy reason. Barkley is the main cog in this offense and in this team.
$12-14M for this type of production is a good deal, a WR like this would cost $20M. Plus I'm of the opinion that our other "practice squad" level skill players on offense will look a lot worse without Barkley. Again my opinion, but a lot of the opportunities they got were because the defense would follow Barkley around. How many times did you see a fake to Barkley take the whole defense with him?
I know it is BBI's DNA to always want to get rid of your best players and not pay them for some crazy reason. Barkley is the main cog in this offense and in this team.
And just to add one more thing, put a gun to my head am I'm keeping Barkley at $12M over Jones at $35M every day. Now I would like to keep both, but IMO the value of Barkley at that price vs Jones at that price is much greater. This is why I tag Jones.
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Look at the production 1,650 yds, 10 TDS, and a dual threat. The 1,650 total yards is 4th, even in our conservative offensive scheme and with defenses focusing solely on him.
$12-14M for this type of production is a good deal, a WR like this would cost $20M. Plus I'm of the opinion that our other "practice squad" level skill players on offense will look a lot worse without Barkley. Again my opinion, but a lot of the opportunities they got were because the defense would follow Barkley around. How many times did you see a fake to Barkley take the whole defense with him?
I know it is BBI's DNA to always want to get rid of your best players and not pay them for some crazy reason. Barkley is the main cog in this offense and in this team.
And just to add one more thing, put a gun to my head am I'm keeping Barkley at $12M over Jones at $35M every day. Now I would like to keep both, but IMO the value of Barkley at that price vs Jones at that price is much greater. This is why I tag Jones.
You make good points in both threads. Difference, Jones is less likely to be injured and more likely to be available each week. Plus, Jones is more likely to be playing 10 years from now as opposed to 3 years from Barkley.
Yes Barkley is the higher rated player at his position than Jones is at his. QB is a vastly more important position than running back and much harder to replace.
IMV your numbers ($12 and $35) are about were they would make the most sense.
Look at Philly , SF , KC - Rb are a dime a dozen.
If history is any guide, Daboll in Buffalo Never ran the ball. They still don’t.
Vikings were a crappy team. The NFC East, we can't compete in yet. And Washington Commies are getting better too
Look at Philly , SF , KC - Rb are a dime a dozen.
If history is any guide, Daboll in Buffalo Never ran the ball. They still don’t.
SF? The same SF who traded 4 draft picks for CMC? I don’t think they are a good example of the point you are desperately trying to make.
There are just too many holes on the roster, especially on the defensive side of the ball, that could lead to games that play out where they are in pass only mode and Barkley’s impact is limited. After a game like Sunday, it just makes you think that rather than spending that money on Barkley, wouldn’t it be better to use it towards plugging one of the holes on defense with a guy like Tremaine Edmunds?
Well put bceagle.
And of all positions, the ability to find an adequate RB replacement in the draft, for pennies on the dollar, is the smart play if contract negotiations aren't a slam dunk.
I want Saquon back even though I felt a running back at 2 was just a terrible idea, because he is a Giant and I like rooting for him
Practically? An oft injured 6 th year rb, seems risky
The contract is definitely a sticking point but I'm a 40 year Giants fan who wants him back.
There is a limit to what you offer any player, and there is certainly a limit to what you offer Barkley. But to just say move on after the guy literally has done everything asked of him seems callous. I think Schoen gives it a real attempt to meet in the middle. If SB asks for too much then he leaves, but to come up with all of these excuses about his production and ability as reasons to not even negotiate is a bad look.