The truth about Saquon Barkley

In comment 16011758 Keaton028 said:

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most Giants fans were done with Barkley and wanted him off the team. The fact that many have walked that back shows how far he has come back. SB did everything we all were asking and hoping of him. His blocking improved, he ran tougher and got the dirty yards, he played a full season, he showed up big in big moments. There is a limit to what you offer any player, and there is certainly a limit to what you offer Barkley. But to just say move on after the guy literally has done everything asked of him seems callous. I think Schoen gives it a real attempt to meet in the middle. If SB asks for too much then he leaves, but to come up with all of these excuses about his production and ability as reasons to not even negotiate is a bad look.

if Barkley's very public statements that he doesn't want to reset the market are an indication that he believes that any money he doesn't make on a contract can easily made up with playing in New York and the endorsements that come with that.

I know its 2023 and NY isn't exactly the only place you can be a megastar, but that tends to be true mostly only for quarterbacks in football.

What other player is really nationally well known who isn't a quarterback?

Beckham? True, but for various reasons besides just football and he became a star here first.

The best WRs? Adams, Hill, Jefferson, Chase? Top of the hill, class of their positions. In our world, we know these guys. But do you see them in any commercials? (I guess Hill wouldn't be a spokesman given his off the field issues but still)>

The best RBs? Anyone see Derrick Henry in commercials? Josh Jacobs? Nick Chubb?

Even harder for defensive players. Aaron Donald is in some commercial I believe but you don't see many defensive stars in ad campaigns. JJ Watt is probably the last guy to be a big national star where the average person may at least "know of him" and recognize his face.

Barkley, even in 2021 coming off his ACL and people wondering what player he would was still used in national NFL ad campaigns and of course here in the tri state area.

For a non-QB, playing in New York is the best way to be a star.

I'm not saying that Barkley is driven solely by personal stardom, but if you are Saquon you may be thinking "Hey if I could be part of a winner here in New York, I'll be a star for life" as opposed to getting some superficial non-guaranteed money that I'll probably never see to make my new contract look sexier than it really is from some other org where I'll be forgotten about in a few years.

We don't know him personally, but Barkley seems like a saavy guy. Long term, there could be a lot more money here beyond his playing days.

once he typed out an evaluation about Barkley. Truth? No.

In comment 16011439 Eric from BBI said:

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I don't think you're too far off. Full disclosure... I thought Barkley ran gun-shy in 2021. When a player gets like that, he seldom finds his toughness again. Barkley did in 2022. I was very impressed with the way he reinvented himself as a far more physical and tougher running back. Some may remember that I posted before the season that the best scenario for the Giants was for Barkley to have a tremendous first half and then for the Giants to trade him before the deadline when his value was the highest. However, the unforeseen 6-2 start prevented that. But at the time, I posted I thought we had not seen the best of Barkley yet because we had not seen the 2018-type big runs. Problem is we never did. I'm not sure he has that extra gear anymore. And for better or worse, the Giants' coaching staff thinks his sweet spot in touches is <20 per game. He's used as much as a threat now as actual weapon. How much is that worth? I'm not sure it is $12-14 million per year.

Agree Eric. And I posted on another thread. He doesn't have that next gear to pull away anymore

In comment 16011727 Keaton028 said:

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In comment 16011700 GiantsRage2007 said: Quote: Into OL. Look at Philly , SF , KC - Rb are a dime a dozen. If history is any guide, Daboll in Buffalo Never ran the ball. They still don’t. SF? The same SF who traded 4 draft picks for CMC? I don’t think they are a good example of the point you are desperately trying to make.

Desperate? Um ok. Lol

I can offer an opinion same as you.

Build the line. I think that’s more important.

on a 1 year prove it deal.

Is we had below average RB when Barkley was hurt and they clearly didn't get the job done. So no, RBs aren't a dime a dozen. Take a look at these names and tell me who you want back:

Wayne Gallman
Elijhaa Penny
Alfred Morris
Devonta Freeman
Dion Lewis
Devontae Booker

Take a look at these names. Do any of these guys scream "starting, above average RB" to you? Are any of these average RBs going to outperform Barkley on this team?

Joe Mixon
David Montgomery
Cam Akers
James Conner
AJ Dillon
Latavius Murray
Khalil Herbert
Cordarrelle Patterson
Leonard Fournette
Antonio Gibson
D'Andre Swift
J.K. Dobbins
James Cook
Kenyan Drake
Rachaad White
Kareem Hunt
Chuba Hubbard

But do agree with your premise. When I look at the cap and the number of guys we would like to re-sign, then the number of positions we need to bolster in both FA and the draft, my first thought is "do I want to commit 12-15mil to a RB?".

As much as I love Barkley and think he's a great teammate, I just don't think doing so would be a good long term strategy, specifically since RBs trail off heavily in production as they get past 5 years in the league.

To me he was always a luxury pick and still would be a luxury re-signing.

In comment 16011881 ThreePoints said:

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Is we had below average RB when Barkley was hurt and they clearly didn't get the job done. So no, RBs aren't a dime a dozen. Take a look at these names and tell me who you want back: Wayne Gallman Elijhaa Penny Alfred Morris Devonta Freeman Dion Lewis Devontae Booker Take a look at these names. Do any of these guys scream "starting, above average RB" to you? Are any of these average RBs going to outperform Barkley on this team? Joe Mixon David Montgomery Cam Akers James Conner AJ Dillon Latavius Murray Khalil Herbert Cordarrelle Patterson Leonard Fournette Antonio Gibson D'Andre Swift J.K. Dobbins James Cook Kenyan Drake Rachaad White Kareem Hunt Chuba Hubbard

Reminds me a lot of Beckham debate. "Wideouts are a dime a dozen", "Just draft em", "You don't need a stud #1 to win, just look at the 01-03 Patriots!"

And yet here we are, years later and we have the least talented WR corp in the sport.

SB had Eli, which I believe greatly helped SBs production

Then give him a multiyear deal.

thanks in advance

Barkley:

Tied for 3rd in the NFL in 20+ rushing plays with 9.
5th in Rushing TDs (10)

Tied for 3rd in 40+ rushing plays (2) (plus 1 more as a receiver)

5th in rushing first rounds (62)

4th in rushing yards (didn't play the last game)


Add in 57 more receptions.

Stop with this bologna that the guy isn't elite. You scared to pay him? Fine, but don't sell the bs that he's not a great RB right now.



Link - ( New Window )

is akin to the same mistake Gettleman made in overvaluing a RB with the #2 overall pick in 2018.

The team may have made the playoffs but still has plenty of rebuilding to execute, players decisions to make, extensions to give. And now will be picking later in the draft to boot.

In certain instances the next stage of rebuilding decisions are far more important than the earlier ones.

In comment 16011729 Mike in NJ said:

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of why it doesn’t make sense to pay $12mil+ for a running back yet. He was without question our best offensive player all year, and he still was even in the limited touches he received against the Eagles. The problem is that because of the position he plays, there will be games like this past weekend where he can barely be used. There are just too many holes on the roster, especially on the defensive side of the ball, that could lead to games that play out where they are in pass only mode and Barkley’s impact is limited. After a game like Sunday, it just makes you think that rather than spending that money on Barkley, wouldn’t it be better to use it towards plugging one of the holes on defense with a guy like Tremaine Edmunds?

The only problem with this, is we never even get to this position without him.

Especially if the tag is $10 mil.

He is still young. He got back into ideal playing weight and strength instead of being too muscle bound and less flexible.

The tag for an RB is low. He is a 2 way player that can give us a level of receiving out of the backfield. We haven't seen him with a fully finished OL in front of him no a passing game that really forces teams to focus more on the passing game than him.

I think at this point, he is considered core and the Giants tend to be very good at retaining players they identify as core over recent years.

Are we trying to run here? I like our run first offense, but was that more so to maximize the roster than a long term vision of what we are trying to do?

They ran Barkley into the ground a bit, they need to utilize a 2nd and 3rd back a bit more. Or maybe they ran him into the ground knowing he wouldn't be back.

Saquon is easy to root for, I like him being a Giant. I don't think I would pay him $14M a year. Remember, you're paying for the value you expect to get from him moving forward. Had a really good year but he's hitting that age where RB's typically fall off.

Noticed the same comment from Schoen. Good catch.

that the 2018 pass catchers were all much much better players than what we had out there in 2022. Beckham/Shepard/Engram cases Atleast some attention from opposing defenses. I suspect if we had that kind of talent this year Barkley would have more room to work with and we’d be scoring more points.

As for his speed, I’m not sure what you guys are watching. The numbers back up that he’s just about on par with his rookie season. His top end speed this year was 21.3 MPH, in 2018 it was 21.9. A hair off, not some drastic downturn like some are suggesting.

So what you do with Barkley is largely contingent on how that plays out. I think Chubb money is fine though. The RB market has largely corrected, CMC signed his deal 3 years ago and a RB hasn't come within more than 75% of his AAV since. I don't think that is considered a "bad" contract either, considering what the Panthers got for trading him. This is all while other positions are exploding in value. Barkley does bring intangibles that work as a tiebreaker on a close decision as well.

If Barkley is holding out for more than you're willing to pay and you need the tag for Jones, I'm fine letting him walk. Overall though, I'd prefer to resign our own guys than shop in the first wave of UFA.

In comment 16011964 djm said:

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thanks in advance Barkley: Tied for 3rd in the NFL in 20+ rushing plays with 9. 5th in Rushing TDs (10) Tied for 3rd in 40+ rushing plays (2) (plus 1 more as a receiver) 5th in rushing first rounds (62) 4th in rushing yards (didn't play the last game) Add in 57 more receptions. Stop with this bologna that the guy isn't elite. You scared to pay him? Fine, but don't sell the bs that he's not a great RB right now. Link - ( New Window )

Question which of these 2 RBs through 8 games was elite? Which was merely good?

ATT YDS AVG TD LNG REC TGTS YDS AVG TD LNG
132 533 4.04 5 27 29 41 149 5.14 0 18
163 779 4.78 5 68 28 35 189 6.75 0 41

To the op, although you admitted it wasn't fact and all based on speculation and opinion. The headline is decieving as he'll.

Also, I have NO idea what game/sand RB your watching but Barkley looks fantastic and has almost the same stats as his rookie year.

That is also taking into consideration the half built Offensive Line. If you think Barkley isn't the same RB we drafted then I have no idea what you are seeing.

He is A Top 5 RB and he has stated that he isn't looking to reset the RB market, which he could easily do by not signing with NY and going all in as a FA.

Barkley is a good player. He is not a dynamic must have at all costs player though. If he ever really was, he isn't anymore.

It will depend on the money. The Giants should have a set amount they are willing to go with him. If he refuses, they should not budge.

Saquan Barkley isn't your typical RB either.

He is a threat as a receiver out of the backfield ans he can also line up In the Slot and the outside as a WIDE OUT.

Barkley is so much more than your typical RB. That in and of itself is a good reason to sign him and YES he is going to get paid between 12 and 14 million a year and that isn't top 5RB salary.

Sign this guy now. He is also the reason JONES can run and is a big part of Jones Success.

if your offensive line is playing at a high level. Otherwise, you need a guy who has above average skills to make up for it.

Why you see a plug-and-play situation at the running back position with other teams is because of their offensive line.

In comment 16012337 .McL. said:

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In comment 16011964 djm said: Quote: Question which of these 2 RBs through 8 games was elite? Which was merely good? ATT YDS AVG TD LNG REC TGTS YDS AVG TD LNG 132 533 4.04 5 27 29 41 149 5.14 0 18 163 779 4.78 5 68 28 35 189 6.75 0 41

Ok, yeah it was a trick question.
The bottom line is Barkley's first 8 games in 2022
The top is his last 8 games in 2022

If you are paying for him, which guy are you getting? Which is more indicative of his future play? Especially as his body degrades.