to think we could recreate 07 and 11. That's just not happening again, Coughlin was pulling out god tier level motivational techniques, like telling his players he loves them, "All In", and Madden praising the team. Sends chills down my spine thinking about it.
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
That roster was also easy better. Both of those teams would beat this team.
What a pleasure these reviews are each week.
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
What a pleasure these reviews are each week.
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
Initial thought, they sucked. Secondary view at it - they were on par / average
Tuli Tuipulotu just moved near the top of my round 1 list. We need a guy like him that can play that Jihad ward role. Play the other 5T with DT at NT and LW at the other 5, and also add a power rush element.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
I guess the question I have is, where do we stand at the RT position? One the one hand, the guy we got is a very high draft pick and we need to continue to give him opportunities to develop. But the question I have is, if it weren't for his draft status, would he have kept the job all year like he did? And more importantly, what's the plan for next year, considering that under no circumstances can we go a full season with the performance we got at the position this year.
I'm not worried about Neal being Flowers. Flowers was a jerk with a
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Neal has the same problems that Flowers had. The foot work of both players are suspect, which makes them vulnerable to speed rushers. At this point, relative to Flowers, Neal does not have a higher ceiling. I think Flowers had a better first year than Neal.
Me piss drunk on Sunday morning around 1:30 am to vent about the game. Funnily enough I mentioned Neal getting beat as badly as Flowers did. Lets just say it wasn't the best thing to say to a heavily intoxicated Giants fan after that loss.
Big offseason for Neal.
RE: RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
The comparison has to do with 2 things:
The level of struggle in their rookie year
And what is causing the struggle.
As a person and as a prospect out of college - Neal is head and shoulders above Flowers. I am not going there comparison wise. It is simply about the balance, footwork, and how badly he got beat throughout the year.
Sy how easily are footwork and balance corrected? To a laymnan it seems like the footwork can be overcome with pracice and reps, some serious offseason work with Le Charles Bentley or someone like him. the balance scares me as it seems like you either have it or you don't, but again I don't really know as my playing days ended in high school.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
Of all the Mara mistakes, bringing in/highly recomending Jason Garett has to be near the top. He was supposed to lend stability and an offensive mind to the coaching staff and he did neither, instead he was a detriment certainly as an OL.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
Combo of Judge’s overly conservative mindset and Jason Garrett’s unimaginative offense.
I think Jones is still trying to shake off the shackles of the former. He’s gotta get back to turning it loose on some of these plays like he did as a rookie without being so worried about a turnover.
confirms what i saw with my own eyes while cringe-watching the game..
as sy said, the plays he botched probably don't mean the giants win the game if he made them, but it would be nice to see him be able to rise up in that situation.
instead he fell on his face.
i'm concerned about giving him a long-term deal, or at least one they can't easily get out of in a year or two.
has jones ever played well against strong defenses?
seems as though all of his signature wins have been against washington, or vs teams with bottom-5 defenses.
First, thank you for all your time doing these write ups throughout the year.
Second, can you give us a glimmer of hope with regards to Neal? I've seen him do those box jumps on youtube and for someone 6' 7" and 360 lbs. it's really impressive. He obviously has the athletic traits to fix the balance and footwork deficiencies, correct???
going to have games like Jones had at some point in their careers. I don't think we should read the Eagles game like tea leaves to come to a verdict on Jones. Bad games happen.
One minor quibble. Jones did not elevate in this game. I don't disagree with what you said he didn't do. But, the James drop would've been a TD. Not Jones' fault and he would've gotten credited with finding the end zone. The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yawn. The "it's always the receiver" excuse for Jones which goes all the way back to his college days. He has a guy who can win on contested balls-Galloway. The third stringer threw Galloway a ball and it was a td. Jones refuses to even look his way. Unless you are a short slant, hook, short out receiver, I don't see where Jones can utilize you. He isn't good on patterns crossing the field, seams, or fades. He isn't particularly good on swing passes. James was wide open; a simple pass toward the sideline that 3/4 of the pro qb's can make in their sleep, is thrown flat, high and up the field. Could James have made the catch? Yep. Was the degree of difficulty raised because of the throw? Yep.
That is the maddening problem with Jones. He somehow manages to give evidence that both sides can use.
This is a huge contract decision, as Sy mentioned. Jones is a limited passer. Unless you are counting on him for 700-1000 yards rushing every year, there's a real question as to what he is worth. DC's will have all offseason to study what the Giants did, what worked against them and what didn't work. No more surprises.
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
"This was a home-run draft class to this point for the front office and one of the reasons I feel optimistic moving forward. I’m not sure how many people understand just how good it was."
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
I think Garrett deserves a ton of blame.
Perhaps. But Judge's performance in New England tends to suggest he may have been the bigger problem. Plus ultimately, he did fire Garrett and replace him.
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
Tate had that core strength and Steve Smith (Carolina) tenacity, something none of our receivers have. You just have to turn on the friggin TV and watch.
The DJ synopsis was spot on. He was literally the best player on the field against the Vikings and the worst player on the field against the Eagles. If ever there was a flashing "danger Will Robinson" moment for this franchise, it was Saturday night. It continues to appear that reconciling DJ's contract expectations with the need to spend significant dollars elsewhere to upgrade the roster is not possible. While the franchise tag is being bandied about, this really doesn't solve the problem for the immediate season either given the huge cap hit.
Unless the quarterback is truly elite, ala Mahomes and Burrow, it simply makes no sense committing elite dollars to the quarterback position. Dak, Carr, Wentz, et al are better thought of now as lessons in what not to do rather than comparables that justify fair market value. Hopefully Schoen will show the same restraint that served him so well in his first year as he approaches the DJ decision.
I agree that Neal's comp on pass pro during his rookie year is Eric Flowers and not AT. I think the differences as stated on this thread are his character/coachability and much better run blocking. I still believe Neal can be a great Giant, but my guess is he will do so ultimately as a guard and not a tackle.
In terms of needs, while WR and TE are clearly the priority, the front seven on defense needs to be significantly reengineered. There is a good chance as you mention that other than Thibs, DL and perhaps Ward, the other spots could be completely overhauled. LW cannot continue to occupy such an outrageous percentage of the cap, especially when he "plays on ice skates" in meaningful games. If Schoen cannot orchestrate a pay cut, than LW should be cut and the savings applied to upgrade the front seven. And Ojulari is not the answer at edge. He is a reasonably good pass rusher, but he is too small and ineffectual against the run to be a three down player.
Looking forward to the upcoming draft season. Thanks again Sy.
over the years - knows that OL is among his specialties. Which is why his concerns about Neal are especially concerning.
So, I went back and read his pre-draft write up of Neal. While he does hit on the balance issues we are seeing - he said his constant position changes will likely lead to growing pains. He thinks his upside is top notch (elite). Accordingly, (per me) per Sy, another off season and training camp and season at RT should see him excel.
1) I tend to agree with your assessment of Jones. The way I looked at it was the Indy game and the Minny playoff win seemed to have cemented Jones as the QB and all but guaranteed a huge payday. This game, in my opinion, knocked him back a notch to the point where there are questions again. If not whether to bring him back, at least at what cost? Not only did he not elevate his game and or anyone else's, but a lot of the questions surrounding him prior to this year resurfaced. There were 2 bad turnovers, indecisiveness, poor throws, poor awareness in the pocket, etc.
On one hand it's great to know he is capable of playin the way he did in those 2 critical wins and much of the season. But, Indy and Minny do not have good defenses. Philly is not only a good team, but a division rival. He needs to be able to beat this team, and Dallas eventually. This weekend did nothing to convince he can. I am not saying he can't. I just don't know. I have reverted back to thinking I would like him back, but not anywhere the $35M or more. If they give it to him, I will root like Hell for him and hope they improve the rest of the roster (defense included) to close the gap enough to compete with top teams.
2) Barkley - I kept thinking if they can't run the ball due to the score, Barkley should still be getting touches in the passing game. I didn't observe them keying on him, the way you did, but it would be an explanation. He is another tough call on re-signing. I absolutely love him and think from day 1 he has been the best player on the team. But, we all know how risky second contracts are for RBs. In my ideal world, Schoen is creative and finds a way to bring back both Barkley and Jones. Maybe less annual average, but mmore guaranteed money? I worry about bringing back Jones without have Barkley behind him.
3) WR - same thoughts. Slayton showed why he can't be a WR1 and James showed why he shouldn't be a top of the rotation WR also. Of the 3, Hodgins is the one I definitely want back because he has shown very good hands (even though that bobble cost us a first down), good route running, and for his lack of speed a good ability after the catch. He would be nice to rotate in as a WR3 or WR4, with legitimate WRs ahead of him. Of Slayton and James, I'd be fine if neither were back, but appreciate what they contributed this year.
4) OL - this is where I have really started to shift. I kept saying next year with Ezeudu at LG and Gates at OC we have a number of guys on roster to compete for RG with McKethan, Feliciano, Bredeson, and maybe Lemieux. I still think that may work, but I want a good interior OL in one of the first 3 rounds. The current guys, when all are healthy and the best 3 interior guyg shake out can be a good OL. An elite interior OL in the mix could make them a VERY good OL.
5) They need to reconsider their front. I like Wink and what his D accomplished. But, I think we need to be able to run a traditional 3-4 or 4-3. We have 2 DTs and backups at DT. We have no real DEs for either front. We tried to make up for it with lumbering ILBs, which didn't work out stopping the run, especially when either starting DT was out. I'm also not a fan of EDGE. Either make them 4-3 DEs or true OLBs. This may be old fashioned, OLBs and EDGE are not the same.
6) DBs - I think we have a decent amount of talent at both CB and S, but an elite guy at CB may be nice.
I agree about Ward, but again, he isn't really a DE, LB, or pass rusher. I would like a guy like him to either be a 4-3 DE or get a 3-4 DE and play Williams at the other 3-4 DE. But, can Ojulari, KT, and Ward play as true OLBs?
consistent about DJ's career, it's that he carves up historically bad defenses.
Go back and look at year one of his career.
This is exactly why there is such a disparity in views. It has never been about physical talent. It is about what happens between DJ's ears.
Give DJ a clean pocket, first read wide open receivers and a badly schemed defense and he looks like a hybrid of Dan Marino and Steve Young. Put him in a position where he needs to go off script, process second and third reads and make pinpoint accurate passes under duress and he turns into a hybrid of Jameis Winston and Nathan Peterman.
Beating inferior teams is actually nothing to sneeze at in the NFL and it demonstrates DJ's great coachability. There is good value there. But it is not sufficient. He needs to consistently play well against superior teams. In his four years he has won exactly five games against teams that ended with a winning record: Saints and Raiders last year, Ravens, Jaguars and Vikings this year. None of whom can be considered top teams. This is a massive red flag!
No doubt Daniel Jones gave a lift to the offensive total with 7 Stud Awards and only 1 Dud. The flip side on offense is Evan Neal with 8 Dud Awards and 0 Stud Awards.
On defense, Dexter Lawrence was a perfect 8 for 8 -- all stud awards.
If he IS however, be honest, and move him inside to G and draft an OT or sign one in FA until someone can develop.
Don't waste a bunch of years throwing him out there to fail to the point that he's useless. That's how the NYG let Flowers down.
The thing to consider is that (1) Flowers was a jerk that had no interest in getting better, and (2) Flowers actually regressed after a promising rookie year.
Neal was no doubt awful this year, but he was re-learning right tackle while also learning NFL blocking techniques, and had a pretty severe knee sprain.
He's a smart guy and a hard worker, so I have hope.
Say said the needs were in no specific order but this was first
“WR: At least one, preferably two starting-caliber guys who can play the outside and provide explosive plays. They need speed, one of them needs size.”
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
RE: Say said the needs were in no specific order but this was first
“WR: At least one, preferably two starting-caliber guys who can play the outside and provide explosive plays. They need speed, one of them needs size.”
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
Of the four QBs who lost this past weekend (Lawrence, Jones, Prescott, Allen), how would you rank their performances? Did any of them play well despite the loss?
Of the four QBs who lost this past weekend (Lawrence, Jones, Prescott, Allen), how would you rank their performances? Did any of them play well despite the loss?
To me , it looks like THAT is the order of who performed well, comparatively.
Considering the talent level of the QBs team, the talent level of the opposition , and performance of the QBs team as a whole, I thought TL did well and far better than the next closest QB; DJ had a huge task; Dak underperformed, and Allen was at best disappointing.
He can only make body catches and even then he still bobbles the ball almost every catch.. For this fact he’ll never be able to make contested catches, he literally can’t extend his arms and make a catch in traffic. QB killer
Another reason to concentrate on "Dancing Elephants"
"This line is one of the best I have ever seen. Their starters were brought in via the draft, every single one. 2011, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2021. Their backups? 2019, 2021, 2022, 2022. All in the draft or undrafted free agency. Feed the trenches. Draft better linemen. Then draft their backups. It will work."
He can only make body catches and even then he still bobbles the ball almost every catch.. For this fact he’ll never be able to make contested catches, he literally can’t extend his arms and make a catch in traffic. QB killer
yup, Slayton is semi-lucky that every pass doesn’t bounce off his chest. It’s amazing he’s even in the NFL with a complete inability to catch the ball with his hands extended. I don’t think he’s terrible, but he’s got to go. We need some real receivers desperately
RE: RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
In comment 16011900 beatrixkiddo said:
[quote] In comment 16011883 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Yeah we have to hope Neal can improve. The worrying part is he showed no improvement at all throughout the season and his weakness is footwork (something that is hard to correct). What do you do if he picks up right where he left off next year? They need to have a contingency plan. /quote]
Footwork is hard to correct. Where did you get that? It's one of the easiest things to correct. Footwork is based on observation and anticipation. "This happens and/or you see this, then move your feet this way and set (slide, push, etc.)". Train over and over again until the eye and feet coordination becomes automatic. It's exactly the same concept as hand/eye coordination. The only difference is with a huge guy (like Neal) the body doesn't naturally respond as quickly to the mental observation/anticipation. Hence the focus on repetition.
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
There is o their team in professional sports (yes, that includes them all), that I hate more than the Philadelphia Eagles. I hate their fans, the sports media who covers them in that town, and the attention they get from the overall sports media.
I am a 66 year old lifetime NY Giants fan, and I have seen my team through the good and the bad years throughout my life, but the dominance shown by the Eagles over the Giants has been allowed by the Giants organisation for the past decade, and I am sick of it. It must stop! I hope that Joe Schoen acquires the players this team so desperately needs to improve the team for next season. Brian Daboll needs to focus on beating that wretched team twice during the regular season next season. This must end now!
The damn Eagles only won 4 games during the 2020 season, yet they are claiming they have a new dynasty according to their wretched fans and their media. They have acquired good players (Bradberry from the Giants unfortunately), but they should be toppled and exposed as pretenders!
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
That roster was also easy better. Both of those teams would beat this team.
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
Initial thought, they sucked. Secondary view at it - they were on par / average
Me neither. But it definitely crossed my mind. We all want to believe Neal is the next Thomas but he could be the next Flowers.
He was bad for Mac Jones too.
Neal has the same problems that Flowers had. The foot work of both players are suspect, which makes them vulnerable to speed rushers. At this point, relative to Flowers, Neal does not have a higher ceiling. I think Flowers had a better first year than Neal.
Big offseason for Neal.
Quote:
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
The comparison has to do with 2 things:
The level of struggle in their rookie year
And what is causing the struggle.
As a person and as a prospect out of college - Neal is head and shoulders above Flowers. I am not going there comparison wise. It is simply about the balance, footwork, and how badly he got beat throughout the year.
Sy how easily are footwork and balance corrected? To a laymnan it seems like the footwork can be overcome with pracice and reps, some serious offseason work with Le Charles Bentley or someone like him. the balance scares me as it seems like you either have it or you don't, but again I don't really know as my playing days ended in high school.
Of all the Mara mistakes, bringing in/highly recomending Jason Garett has to be near the top. He was supposed to lend stability and an offensive mind to the coaching staff and he did neither, instead he was a detriment certainly as an OL.
Combo of Judge’s overly conservative mindset and Jason Garrett’s unimaginative offense.
I think Jones is still trying to shake off the shackles of the former. He’s gotta get back to turning it loose on some of these plays like he did as a rookie without being so worried about a turnover.
as sy said, the plays he botched probably don't mean the giants win the game if he made them, but it would be nice to see him be able to rise up in that situation.
instead he fell on his face.
i'm concerned about giving him a long-term deal, or at least one they can't easily get out of in a year or two.
has jones ever played well against strong defenses?
seems as though all of his signature wins have been against washington, or vs teams with bottom-5 defenses.
not sold.
I agree that of the Big Four players out there to be signed this off-season, Saquon Barkley may well get the short end of the stick.
First, thank you for all your time doing these write ups throughout the year.
Second, can you give us a glimmer of hope with regards to Neal? I've seen him do those box jumps on youtube and for someone 6' 7" and 360 lbs. it's really impressive. He obviously has the athletic traits to fix the balance and footwork deficiencies, correct???
Quote:
One minor quibble. Jones did not elevate in this game. I don't disagree with what you said he didn't do. But, the James drop would've been a TD. Not Jones' fault and he would've gotten credited with finding the end zone. The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yawn. The "it's always the receiver" excuse for Jones which goes all the way back to his college days. He has a guy who can win on contested balls-Galloway. The third stringer threw Galloway a ball and it was a td. Jones refuses to even look his way. Unless you are a short slant, hook, short out receiver, I don't see where Jones can utilize you. He isn't good on patterns crossing the field, seams, or fades. He isn't particularly good on swing passes. James was wide open; a simple pass toward the sideline that 3/4 of the pro qb's can make in their sleep, is thrown flat, high and up the field. Could James have made the catch? Yep. Was the degree of difficulty raised because of the throw? Yep.
That is the maddening problem with Jones. He somehow manages to give evidence that both sides can use.
This is a huge contract decision, as Sy mentioned. Jones is a limited passer. Unless you are counting on him for 700-1000 yards rushing every year, there's a real question as to what he is worth. DC's will have all offseason to study what the Giants did, what worked against them and what didn't work. No more surprises.
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
Next year we are beating Philly.
I think Garrett deserves a ton of blame.
That last sentence - you can say that again!
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
Quote:
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
I think Garrett deserves a ton of blame.
Perhaps. But Judge's performance in New England tends to suggest he may have been the bigger problem. Plus ultimately, he did fire Garrett and replace him.
Quote:
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
Tate had that core strength and Steve Smith (Carolina) tenacity, something none of our receivers have. You just have to turn on the friggin TV and watch.
The DJ synopsis was spot on. He was literally the best player on the field against the Vikings and the worst player on the field against the Eagles. If ever there was a flashing "danger Will Robinson" moment for this franchise, it was Saturday night. It continues to appear that reconciling DJ's contract expectations with the need to spend significant dollars elsewhere to upgrade the roster is not possible. While the franchise tag is being bandied about, this really doesn't solve the problem for the immediate season either given the huge cap hit.
Unless the quarterback is truly elite, ala Mahomes and Burrow, it simply makes no sense committing elite dollars to the quarterback position. Dak, Carr, Wentz, et al are better thought of now as lessons in what not to do rather than comparables that justify fair market value. Hopefully Schoen will show the same restraint that served him so well in his first year as he approaches the DJ decision.
I agree that Neal's comp on pass pro during his rookie year is Eric Flowers and not AT. I think the differences as stated on this thread are his character/coachability and much better run blocking. I still believe Neal can be a great Giant, but my guess is he will do so ultimately as a guard and not a tackle.
In terms of needs, while WR and TE are clearly the priority, the front seven on defense needs to be significantly reengineered. There is a good chance as you mention that other than Thibs, DL and perhaps Ward, the other spots could be completely overhauled. LW cannot continue to occupy such an outrageous percentage of the cap, especially when he "plays on ice skates" in meaningful games. If Schoen cannot orchestrate a pay cut, than LW should be cut and the savings applied to upgrade the front seven. And Ojulari is not the answer at edge. He is a reasonably good pass rusher, but he is too small and ineffectual against the run to be a three down player.
Looking forward to the upcoming draft season. Thanks again Sy.
So, I went back and read his pre-draft write up of Neal. While he does hit on the balance issues we are seeing - he said his constant position changes will likely lead to growing pains. He thinks his upside is top notch (elite). Accordingly, (per me) per Sy, another off season and training camp and season at RT should see him excel.
On one hand it's great to know he is capable of playin the way he did in those 2 critical wins and much of the season. But, Indy and Minny do not have good defenses. Philly is not only a good team, but a division rival. He needs to be able to beat this team, and Dallas eventually. This weekend did nothing to convince he can. I am not saying he can't. I just don't know. I have reverted back to thinking I would like him back, but not anywhere the $35M or more. If they give it to him, I will root like Hell for him and hope they improve the rest of the roster (defense included) to close the gap enough to compete with top teams.
2) Barkley - I kept thinking if they can't run the ball due to the score, Barkley should still be getting touches in the passing game. I didn't observe them keying on him, the way you did, but it would be an explanation. He is another tough call on re-signing. I absolutely love him and think from day 1 he has been the best player on the team. But, we all know how risky second contracts are for RBs. In my ideal world, Schoen is creative and finds a way to bring back both Barkley and Jones. Maybe less annual average, but mmore guaranteed money? I worry about bringing back Jones without have Barkley behind him.
3) WR - same thoughts. Slayton showed why he can't be a WR1 and James showed why he shouldn't be a top of the rotation WR also. Of the 3, Hodgins is the one I definitely want back because he has shown very good hands (even though that bobble cost us a first down), good route running, and for his lack of speed a good ability after the catch. He would be nice to rotate in as a WR3 or WR4, with legitimate WRs ahead of him. Of Slayton and James, I'd be fine if neither were back, but appreciate what they contributed this year.
4) OL - this is where I have really started to shift. I kept saying next year with Ezeudu at LG and Gates at OC we have a number of guys on roster to compete for RG with McKethan, Feliciano, Bredeson, and maybe Lemieux. I still think that may work, but I want a good interior OL in one of the first 3 rounds. The current guys, when all are healthy and the best 3 interior guyg shake out can be a good OL. An elite interior OL in the mix could make them a VERY good OL.
5) They need to reconsider their front. I like Wink and what his D accomplished. But, I think we need to be able to run a traditional 3-4 or 4-3. We have 2 DTs and backups at DT. We have no real DEs for either front. We tried to make up for it with lumbering ILBs, which didn't work out stopping the run, especially when either starting DT was out. I'm also not a fan of EDGE. Either make them 4-3 DEs or true OLBs. This may be old fashioned, OLBs and EDGE are not the same.
6) DBs - I think we have a decent amount of talent at both CB and S, but an elite guy at CB may be nice.
Interesting observations!
Go back and look at year one of his career.
Go back and look at year one of his career.
This is exactly why there is such a disparity in views. It has never been about physical talent. It is about what happens between DJ's ears.
Give DJ a clean pocket, first read wide open receivers and a badly schemed defense and he looks like a hybrid of Dan Marino and Steve Young. Put him in a position where he needs to go off script, process second and third reads and make pinpoint accurate passes under duress and he turns into a hybrid of Jameis Winston and Nathan Peterman.
Beating inferior teams is actually nothing to sneeze at in the NFL and it demonstrates DJ's great coachability. There is good value there. But it is not sufficient. He needs to consistently play well against superior teams. In his four years he has won exactly five games against teams that ended with a winning record: Saints and Raiders last year, Ravens, Jaguars and Vikings this year. None of whom can be considered top teams. This is a massive red flag!
Offense
Studs: 26 Players
Duds: 32 Players
Net: -6 Duds
Defense
Studs: 28 Players
Duds: 22 Players
Net: +6 Studs
Specials
Studs: 3 Players
Duds: 3 Players
Net: 0
No doubt Daniel Jones gave a lift to the offensive total with 7 Stud Awards and only 1 Dud. The flip side on offense is Evan Neal with 8 Dud Awards and 0 Stud Awards.
On defense, Dexter Lawrence was a perfect 8 for 8 -- all stud awards.
If he IS however, be honest, and move him inside to G and draft an OT or sign one in FA until someone can develop.
Don't waste a bunch of years throwing him out there to fail to the point that he's useless. That's how the NYG let Flowers down.
The thing to consider is that (1) Flowers was a jerk that had no interest in getting better, and (2) Flowers actually regressed after a promising rookie year.
Neal was no doubt awful this year, but he was re-learning right tackle while also learning NFL blocking techniques, and had a pretty severe knee sprain.
He's a smart guy and a hard worker, so I have hope.
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
What type of wide receiver though?
Robinson and Johnson might not be ready for the offseason programs and Golladay will get cut.
So what type of receiver? Standing is probably a good start.
Robinson and Johnson might not be ready for the offseason programs and Golladay will get cut.
So what type of receiver? Standing is probably a good start.
Well obviously, I was talking about skillset: slot receivers, smaller speedy receivers, contested catch receivers.
To me , it looks like THAT is the order of who performed well, comparatively.
Considering the talent level of the QBs team, the talent level of the opposition , and performance of the QBs team as a whole, I thought TL did well and far better than the next closest QB; DJ had a huge task; Dak underperformed, and Allen was at best disappointing.
"This line is one of the best I have ever seen. Their starters were brought in via the draft, every single one. 2011, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2021. Their backups? 2019, 2021, 2022, 2022. All in the draft or undrafted free agency. Feed the trenches. Draft better linemen. Then draft their backups. It will work."
[quote] In comment 16011883 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Yeah we have to hope Neal can improve. The worrying part is he showed no improvement at all throughout the season and his weakness is footwork (something that is hard to correct). What do you do if he picks up right where he left off next year? They need to have a contingency plan. /quote]
Footwork is hard to correct. Where did you get that? It's one of the easiest things to correct. Footwork is based on observation and anticipation. "This happens and/or you see this, then move your feet this way and set (slide, push, etc.)". Train over and over again until the eye and feet coordination becomes automatic. It's exactly the same concept as hand/eye coordination. The only difference is with a huge guy (like Neal) the body doesn't naturally respond as quickly to the mental observation/anticipation. Hence the focus on repetition.
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
Quote:
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
Thanks Arcade!
I am a 66 year old lifetime NY Giants fan, and I have seen my team through the good and the bad years throughout my life, but the dominance shown by the Eagles over the Giants has been allowed by the Giants organisation for the past decade, and I am sick of it. It must stop! I hope that Joe Schoen acquires the players this team so desperately needs to improve the team for next season. Brian Daboll needs to focus on beating that wretched team twice during the regular season next season. This must end now!
The damn Eagles only won 4 games during the 2020 season, yet they are claiming they have a new dynasty according to their wretched fans and their media. They have acquired good players (Bradberry from the Giants unfortunately), but they should be toppled and exposed as pretenders!