to think we could recreate 07 and 11. That's just not happening again, Coughlin was pulling out god tier level motivational techniques, like telling his players he loves them, "All In", and Madden praising the team. Sends chills down my spine thinking about it.
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
this game was as dead as a doornail in the 1st quarter and shut it off. McKinney tripping over his feet; Love missing tackles; Neal an early turnstile; Jones looked flummoxed from the get go - tripping also(common malady that game it seemed). I may be wrong, but on the 1st qtr INT, I thought Barkley was wide open on the wheel route out of the backfield.
I wonder if the Eagles defense on Hodgins threw Jones off - Hodgins is his security blanket. If so not a good sign.
I also thought, from the little I saw, that was a weak coaching game. They were simply not ready.
Thanks so much for these reviews. I thoroughly appreciate your work.
One minor quibble. Jones did not elevate in this game. I don't disagree with what you said he didn't do. But, the James drop would've been a TD. Not Jones' fault and he would've gotten credited with finding the end zone. The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
I’ve heard some people say when the game speeds up, Jones struggles. The Eagles defense is fast and thus Jones needs to play quicker. Has he shown he’s capable of processing the game adequately against a defense like Philly?
This was a home-run draft class to this point for the front office and one of the reasons I feel optimistic moving forward. I’m not sure how many people understand just how good it was.
to think we could recreate 07 and 11. That's just not happening again, Coughlin was pulling out god tier level motivational techniques, like telling his players he loves them, "All In", and Madden praising the team. Sends chills down my spine thinking about it.
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
So you thought that all Daboll had to do was channel some TC and we beat the Eagles? Really?!! The talent level alone on the 07 and 11 teams was the key to victory. We didn’t even deserve to sniff the Eagles jock straps. I would like to try what you’re smoking
You mentioned a few kay players on the Giants didn't look 100%. What was you observation of the Eagles players? Results indicate that they were much healthier than expected. This was one of the edges Giants fans were hoping for in that game. Based on your review it was the opposite.
Haha. But the closing thoughts are well worth the read.
Pumped for your draft guides. Totally agree on all those needs and probably in that order. A true go to #1 WR is by far the biggest need. Crazy we made it as far as we did this year with WhAt we trotted out there, it cost us most when it mattered though. They need a solid FA vet and a couple new rookies at this group. DT, Edge and CB all right here as well. I think they can improve the OL in house with guys coming back healthy. Maybe look for an OC.
I think Barkley is the one guy you factor out if they can’t find $ for him. Dex, Thomas, Jones and McKinney all are such a bigger part of this teams future and more irreplaceable. They should look to bring in a RB from this class to groom to replace Barkley, a committee makes sense moving forward. I think they can tag Barkley and live with it, I know he is such a leader and vocal type, but looking at his career here it is very disappointing overall with the amount of time he has missed with injuries and just running behind a shit OL. The keys to improving this offense most importantly are going to come via the pass however, the best teams have multiple WRs that keep drives alive and break down defenses on their own. It’s much easier to scheme out a RB than it is a WR in the game today, and it’s easier to make defenses pay for taking away one key target when you have another that can consistently win 1-1 battles. Giants don’t currently have anyone that can be relied on to win their matchups, lots of work to do this offseason.
Makes for grim yet highly informative reading. Very much appreciate all your thoughts and insights.
About Daniel Jones. I am a fan of his (even before this season), and I would have been fine had he put in a mediocre performance on Saturday. But I am quite distressed at how poorly he played. It is of course unfair to criticize just one player for a game that was a complete debacle for the entire team from the coaching staff on down.
But Daniel Jones played so poorly in so many ways! He was inaccurate with his passes, his internal clock was way off, there were the turnovers (which honestly didn’t bother me so much), and the crazy sack he took when he had rolled out to his right and inexplicably “forgot” to simply throw the ball away.
Most likely Joe Schoen spends a lot to resign Daniel Jones due to all the good things he did this season, but if in 5 years time that decision does not look like a wise one I think more than just a few fans may recall how small Daniel Jones played in Philly.
Makes for grim yet highly informative reading. Very much appreciate all your thoughts and insights.
About Daniel Jones. I am a fan of his (even before this season), and I would have been fine had he put in a mediocre performance on Saturday. But I am quite distressed at how poorly he played. It is of course unfair to criticize just one player for a game that was a complete debacle for the entire team from the coaching staff on down.
But Daniel Jones played so poorly in so many ways! He was inaccurate with his passes, his internal clock was way off, there were the turnovers (which honestly didn’t bother me so much), and the crazy sack he took when he had rolled out to his right and inexplicably “forgot” to simply throw the ball away.
Most likely Joe Schoen spends a lot to resign Daniel Jones due to all the good things he did this season, but if in 5 years time that decision does not look like a wise one I think more than just a few fans may recall how small Daniel Jones played in Philly.
I won't disagree with your reaction, but as you say, a one-game sample doesn't always tell the whole story. Eli looked equally clueless and inept in his first playoff game vs Carolina. Sometimes you have a bad day and the opponent has a very good one. How you move on, as a player and a team, will write your legacy.
I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Yeah we have to hope Neal can improve. The worrying part is he showed no improvement at all throughout the season and his weakness is footwork (something that is hard to correct). What do you do if he picks up right where he left off next year? They need to have a contingency plan.
RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Perhaps not but the staff should have a good idea how much is correctable with more time versus flaws that will be hard to correct. I hope if the later they bring in insurance. They need much better production from that spot imv.
I’m shocked that you found three “Studs”. Even among the guys you listed, one fell down on the opening TD of the game, another is an edge rusher who got no pass rush, and Breida touched the ball 5 times. Slim pickings.
My question for Sy would be about two passes to Darius Slayton. We all watched on Sunday when Dak Prescott underthrew a ball in the third quarter to Ceedee Lamb. Lamb slowed down, fought through a penalty by the defender, contorted his body, and made the catch. Jones underthrew the ball to Slayton and Slayton just waited for the ball to drop to him. He didn’t physically try to fight for it. On another pass thrown over the middle, Slayton didn’t really come back hard to the ball and the safety knocked it away. I seriously doubt that he’ll be back on the Giants next season, but what do you think about his future? Is he just who he is? Is there something that can be unlocked in a different role or system?
RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
I think it is the best way to build a sustainable winning team. A good offensive line can make other players look better. A great offensive line can make other players look great. I am under the notion that no matter where you stand, the offensive line needs to be fed via the draft and/or free agency year after year. It is not one position. It is five. Used two first rounders on the line in recent memory? Cool. That isn’t enough if the other three spots are below average or average. Three? Not enough. Four? Maybe enough. But if you find five guys that can be considered near the top of their respective positions, your offense is going to be elite.
It does not matter if you have spent resources in the past. If those resources didn't pan out, you have to keep spending until yo have what you need. And then, you need to keep spending more, though perhaps at a lower rate, to build a pipeline to maintain the OL as a strength.
As Sy said, it is 5 position, it represent about 23% of your starting players on offense and defense. People keep saying we have spent resources, but in the draft it has been nowhere near 23%, at least before Thomas and Neal. So we have a lot of past failure to for us catch up.
RE: RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yeah, but how fair is it to expect those types of things from Slayton? Those are star qualities. He was a very late pick. That's the league telling you they don't see it likely he can play at a star level.
I have never seen Slayton play a contested catch style. He will get open on deep routes and win with speed, and he can run over the middle, again, with speed. His worst enemy is his hands. He will not do well when he has to win the fight against his hands AND outmuscle a defender.
The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yeah, but how fair is it to expect those types of things from Slayton? Those are star qualities. He was a very late pick. That's the league telling you they don't see it likely he can play at a star level.
I have never seen Slayton play a contested catch style. He will get open on deep routes and win with speed, and he can run over the middle, again, with speed. His worst enemy is his hands. He will not do well when he has to win the fight against his hands AND outmuscle a defender.
Slayton is a goner. With that said they need to find a similar player with wheels who can stretch the field as this offense is severely lacking in speed.
This season was a huge improvement, but that’s very much relative to being absolutely pathetic for a decade. A lot of hard work, great scouting and good luck are needed in the coming years to really compete for a championship
Given the bringing in of Brandon Brown into front office from Philly - should be interesting insight there on how they handled their OL philosophy and pass pro is the minor weakness on that interior OL (Glowinski, Bredeson are more run blocking Gs).
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
The comparison has to do with 2 things:
The level of struggle in their rookie year
And what is causing the struggle.
As a person and as a prospect out of college - Neal is head and shoulders above Flowers. I am not going there comparison wise. It is simply about the balance, footwork, and how badly he got beat throughout the year.
One minor quibble. Jones did not elevate in this game. I don't disagree with what you said he didn't do. But, the James drop would've been a TD. Not Jones' fault and he would've gotten credited with finding the end zone. The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yawn. The "it's always the receiver" excuse for Jones which goes all the way back to his college days. He has a guy who can win on contested balls-Galloway. The third stringer threw Galloway a ball and it was a td. Jones refuses to even look his way. Unless you are a short slant, hook, short out receiver, I don't see where Jones can utilize you. He isn't good on patterns crossing the field, seams, or fades. He isn't particularly good on swing passes. James was wide open; a simple pass toward the sideline that 3/4 of the pro qb's can make in their sleep, is thrown flat, high and up the field. Could James have made the catch? Yep. Was the degree of difficulty raised because of the throw? Yep.
That is the maddening problem with Jones. He somehow manages to give evidence that both sides can use.
This is a huge contract decision, as Sy mentioned. Jones is a limited passer. Unless you are counting on him for 700-1000 yards rushing every year, there's a real question as to what he is worth. DC's will have all offseason to study what the Giants did, what worked against them and what didn't work. No more surprises.
would continually double down on mistakes until player/coaching careers were abruptly ended.
If Neal isn't going to thrive at OT (and it's early-I get it-I'm not saying he's not going to develop) move him to guard and solidify that spot...don't keep running him out there to get smoked at RT. Acknowledge the skill set he has look to fill the RT someone that can do the job.
is a weekly tradition here on BBI. What an awful rookie year for him. Hopefully another offseason and camp and he can be a productive player rather than a turnstyle.
Thanks Sy appreciate your time and effort all year
to think we could recreate 07 and 11. That's just not happening again, Coughlin was pulling out god tier level motivational techniques, like telling his players he loves them, "All In", and Madden praising the team. Sends chills down my spine thinking about it.
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
That roster was also easy better. Both of those teams would beat this team.
What a pleasure these reviews are each week.
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
What a pleasure these reviews are each week.
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
Initial thought, they sucked. Secondary view at it - they were on par / average
Tuli Tuipulotu just moved near the top of my round 1 list. We need a guy like him that can play that Jihad ward role. Play the other 5T with DT at NT and LW at the other 5, and also add a power rush element.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
I guess the question I have is, where do we stand at the RT position? One the one hand, the guy we got is a very high draft pick and we need to continue to give him opportunities to develop. But the question I have is, if it weren't for his draft status, would he have kept the job all year like he did? And more importantly, what's the plan for next year, considering that under no circumstances can we go a full season with the performance we got at the position this year.
I'm not worried about Neal being Flowers. Flowers was a jerk with a
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Neal has the same problems that Flowers had. The foot work of both players are suspect, which makes them vulnerable to speed rushers. At this point, relative to Flowers, Neal does not have a higher ceiling. I think Flowers had a better first year than Neal.
Me piss drunk on Sunday morning around 1:30 am to vent about the game. Funnily enough I mentioned Neal getting beat as badly as Flowers did. Lets just say it wasn't the best thing to say to a heavily intoxicated Giants fan after that loss.
Big offseason for Neal.
RE: RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
The comparison has to do with 2 things:
The level of struggle in their rookie year
And what is causing the struggle.
As a person and as a prospect out of college - Neal is head and shoulders above Flowers. I am not going there comparison wise. It is simply about the balance, footwork, and how badly he got beat throughout the year.
Sy how easily are footwork and balance corrected? To a laymnan it seems like the footwork can be overcome with pracice and reps, some serious offseason work with Le Charles Bentley or someone like him. the balance scares me as it seems like you either have it or you don't, but again I don't really know as my playing days ended in high school.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
Of all the Mara mistakes, bringing in/highly recomending Jason Garett has to be near the top. He was supposed to lend stability and an offensive mind to the coaching staff and he did neither, instead he was a detriment certainly as an OL.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
Combo of Judge’s overly conservative mindset and Jason Garrett’s unimaginative offense.
I think Jones is still trying to shake off the shackles of the former. He’s gotta get back to turning it loose on some of these plays like he did as a rookie without being so worried about a turnover.
confirms what i saw with my own eyes while cringe-watching the game..
as sy said, the plays he botched probably don't mean the giants win the game if he made them, but it would be nice to see him be able to rise up in that situation.
instead he fell on his face.
i'm concerned about giving him a long-term deal, or at least one they can't easily get out of in a year or two.
has jones ever played well against strong defenses?
seems as though all of his signature wins have been against washington, or vs teams with bottom-5 defenses.
First, thank you for all your time doing these write ups throughout the year.
Second, can you give us a glimmer of hope with regards to Neal? I've seen him do those box jumps on youtube and for someone 6' 7" and 360 lbs. it's really impressive. He obviously has the athletic traits to fix the balance and footwork deficiencies, correct???
going to have games like Jones had at some point in their careers. I don't think we should read the Eagles game like tea leaves to come to a verdict on Jones. Bad games happen.
One minor quibble. Jones did not elevate in this game. I don't disagree with what you said he didn't do. But, the James drop would've been a TD. Not Jones' fault and he would've gotten credited with finding the end zone. The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yawn. The "it's always the receiver" excuse for Jones which goes all the way back to his college days. He has a guy who can win on contested balls-Galloway. The third stringer threw Galloway a ball and it was a td. Jones refuses to even look his way. Unless you are a short slant, hook, short out receiver, I don't see where Jones can utilize you. He isn't good on patterns crossing the field, seams, or fades. He isn't particularly good on swing passes. James was wide open; a simple pass toward the sideline that 3/4 of the pro qb's can make in their sleep, is thrown flat, high and up the field. Could James have made the catch? Yep. Was the degree of difficulty raised because of the throw? Yep.
That is the maddening problem with Jones. He somehow manages to give evidence that both sides can use.
This is a huge contract decision, as Sy mentioned. Jones is a limited passer. Unless you are counting on him for 700-1000 yards rushing every year, there's a real question as to what he is worth. DC's will have all offseason to study what the Giants did, what worked against them and what didn't work. No more surprises.
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
"This was a home-run draft class to this point for the front office and one of the reasons I feel optimistic moving forward. I’m not sure how many people understand just how good it was."
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
I think Garrett deserves a ton of blame.
Perhaps. But Judge's performance in New England tends to suggest he may have been the bigger problem. Plus ultimately, he did fire Garrett and replace him.
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
Tate had that core strength and Steve Smith (Carolina) tenacity, something none of our receivers have. You just have to turn on the friggin TV and watch.
The DJ synopsis was spot on. He was literally the best player on the field against the Vikings and the worst player on the field against the Eagles. If ever there was a flashing "danger Will Robinson" moment for this franchise, it was Saturday night. It continues to appear that reconciling DJ's contract expectations with the need to spend significant dollars elsewhere to upgrade the roster is not possible. While the franchise tag is being bandied about, this really doesn't solve the problem for the immediate season either given the huge cap hit.
Unless the quarterback is truly elite, ala Mahomes and Burrow, it simply makes no sense committing elite dollars to the quarterback position. Dak, Carr, Wentz, et al are better thought of now as lessons in what not to do rather than comparables that justify fair market value. Hopefully Schoen will show the same restraint that served him so well in his first year as he approaches the DJ decision.
I agree that Neal's comp on pass pro during his rookie year is Eric Flowers and not AT. I think the differences as stated on this thread are his character/coachability and much better run blocking. I still believe Neal can be a great Giant, but my guess is he will do so ultimately as a guard and not a tackle.
In terms of needs, while WR and TE are clearly the priority, the front seven on defense needs to be significantly reengineered. There is a good chance as you mention that other than Thibs, DL and perhaps Ward, the other spots could be completely overhauled. LW cannot continue to occupy such an outrageous percentage of the cap, especially when he "plays on ice skates" in meaningful games. If Schoen cannot orchestrate a pay cut, than LW should be cut and the savings applied to upgrade the front seven. And Ojulari is not the answer at edge. He is a reasonably good pass rusher, but he is too small and ineffectual against the run to be a three down player.
Looking forward to the upcoming draft season. Thanks again Sy.
over the years - knows that OL is among his specialties. Which is why his concerns about Neal are especially concerning.
So, I went back and read his pre-draft write up of Neal. While he does hit on the balance issues we are seeing - he said his constant position changes will likely lead to growing pains. He thinks his upside is top notch (elite). Accordingly, (per me) per Sy, another off season and training camp and season at RT should see him excel.
1) I tend to agree with your assessment of Jones. The way I looked at it was the Indy game and the Minny playoff win seemed to have cemented Jones as the QB and all but guaranteed a huge payday. This game, in my opinion, knocked him back a notch to the point where there are questions again. If not whether to bring him back, at least at what cost? Not only did he not elevate his game and or anyone else's, but a lot of the questions surrounding him prior to this year resurfaced. There were 2 bad turnovers, indecisiveness, poor throws, poor awareness in the pocket, etc.
On one hand it's great to know he is capable of playin the way he did in those 2 critical wins and much of the season. But, Indy and Minny do not have good defenses. Philly is not only a good team, but a division rival. He needs to be able to beat this team, and Dallas eventually. This weekend did nothing to convince he can. I am not saying he can't. I just don't know. I have reverted back to thinking I would like him back, but not anywhere the $35M or more. If they give it to him, I will root like Hell for him and hope they improve the rest of the roster (defense included) to close the gap enough to compete with top teams.
2) Barkley - I kept thinking if they can't run the ball due to the score, Barkley should still be getting touches in the passing game. I didn't observe them keying on him, the way you did, but it would be an explanation. He is another tough call on re-signing. I absolutely love him and think from day 1 he has been the best player on the team. But, we all know how risky second contracts are for RBs. In my ideal world, Schoen is creative and finds a way to bring back both Barkley and Jones. Maybe less annual average, but mmore guaranteed money? I worry about bringing back Jones without have Barkley behind him.
3) WR - same thoughts. Slayton showed why he can't be a WR1 and James showed why he shouldn't be a top of the rotation WR also. Of the 3, Hodgins is the one I definitely want back because he has shown very good hands (even though that bobble cost us a first down), good route running, and for his lack of speed a good ability after the catch. He would be nice to rotate in as a WR3 or WR4, with legitimate WRs ahead of him. Of Slayton and James, I'd be fine if neither were back, but appreciate what they contributed this year.
4) OL - this is where I have really started to shift. I kept saying next year with Ezeudu at LG and Gates at OC we have a number of guys on roster to compete for RG with McKethan, Feliciano, Bredeson, and maybe Lemieux. I still think that may work, but I want a good interior OL in one of the first 3 rounds. The current guys, when all are healthy and the best 3 interior guyg shake out can be a good OL. An elite interior OL in the mix could make them a VERY good OL.
5) They need to reconsider their front. I like Wink and what his D accomplished. But, I think we need to be able to run a traditional 3-4 or 4-3. We have 2 DTs and backups at DT. We have no real DEs for either front. We tried to make up for it with lumbering ILBs, which didn't work out stopping the run, especially when either starting DT was out. I'm also not a fan of EDGE. Either make them 4-3 DEs or true OLBs. This may be old fashioned, OLBs and EDGE are not the same.
6) DBs - I think we have a decent amount of talent at both CB and S, but an elite guy at CB may be nice.
I agree about Ward, but again, he isn't really a DE, LB, or pass rusher. I would like a guy like him to either be a 4-3 DE or get a 3-4 DE and play Williams at the other 3-4 DE. But, can Ojulari, KT, and Ward play as true OLBs?
consistent about DJ's career, it's that he carves up historically bad defenses.
Go back and look at year one of his career.
This is exactly why there is such a disparity in views. It has never been about physical talent. It is about what happens between DJ's ears.
Give DJ a clean pocket, first read wide open receivers and a badly schemed defense and he looks like a hybrid of Dan Marino and Steve Young. Put him in a position where he needs to go off script, process second and third reads and make pinpoint accurate passes under duress and he turns into a hybrid of Jameis Winston and Nathan Peterman.
Beating inferior teams is actually nothing to sneeze at in the NFL and it demonstrates DJ's great coachability. There is good value there. But it is not sufficient. He needs to consistently play well against superior teams. In his four years he has won exactly five games against teams that ended with a winning record: Saints and Raiders last year, Ravens, Jaguars and Vikings this year. None of whom can be considered top teams. This is a massive red flag!
No doubt Daniel Jones gave a lift to the offensive total with 7 Stud Awards and only 1 Dud. The flip side on offense is Evan Neal with 8 Dud Awards and 0 Stud Awards.
On defense, Dexter Lawrence was a perfect 8 for 8 -- all stud awards.
If he IS however, be honest, and move him inside to G and draft an OT or sign one in FA until someone can develop.
Don't waste a bunch of years throwing him out there to fail to the point that he's useless. That's how the NYG let Flowers down.
The thing to consider is that (1) Flowers was a jerk that had no interest in getting better, and (2) Flowers actually regressed after a promising rookie year.
Neal was no doubt awful this year, but he was re-learning right tackle while also learning NFL blocking techniques, and had a pretty severe knee sprain.
He's a smart guy and a hard worker, so I have hope.
Say said the needs were in no specific order but this was first
“WR: At least one, preferably two starting-caliber guys who can play the outside and provide explosive plays. They need speed, one of them needs size.”
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
RE: Say said the needs were in no specific order but this was first
“WR: At least one, preferably two starting-caliber guys who can play the outside and provide explosive plays. They need speed, one of them needs size.”
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
Of the four QBs who lost this past weekend (Lawrence, Jones, Prescott, Allen), how would you rank their performances? Did any of them play well despite the loss?
Of the four QBs who lost this past weekend (Lawrence, Jones, Prescott, Allen), how would you rank their performances? Did any of them play well despite the loss?
To me , it looks like THAT is the order of who performed well, comparatively.
Considering the talent level of the QBs team, the talent level of the opposition , and performance of the QBs team as a whole, I thought TL did well and far better than the next closest QB; DJ had a huge task; Dak underperformed, and Allen was at best disappointing.
He can only make body catches and even then he still bobbles the ball almost every catch.. For this fact he’ll never be able to make contested catches, he literally can’t extend his arms and make a catch in traffic. QB killer
Another reason to concentrate on "Dancing Elephants"
"This line is one of the best I have ever seen. Their starters were brought in via the draft, every single one. 2011, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2021. Their backups? 2019, 2021, 2022, 2022. All in the draft or undrafted free agency. Feed the trenches. Draft better linemen. Then draft their backups. It will work."
He can only make body catches and even then he still bobbles the ball almost every catch.. For this fact he’ll never be able to make contested catches, he literally can’t extend his arms and make a catch in traffic. QB killer
yup, Slayton is semi-lucky that every pass doesn’t bounce off his chest. It’s amazing he’s even in the NFL with a complete inability to catch the ball with his hands extended. I don’t think he’s terrible, but he’s got to go. We need some real receivers desperately
RE: RE: I don't buy that there is a real comparison to Flowers with Neal
In comment 16011900 beatrixkiddo said:
[quote] In comment 16011883 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Yeah we have to hope Neal can improve. The worrying part is he showed no improvement at all throughout the season and his weakness is footwork (something that is hard to correct). What do you do if he picks up right where he left off next year? They need to have a contingency plan. /quote]
Footwork is hard to correct. Where did you get that? It's one of the easiest things to correct. Footwork is based on observation and anticipation. "This happens and/or you see this, then move your feet this way and set (slide, push, etc.)". Train over and over again until the eye and feet coordination becomes automatic. It's exactly the same concept as hand/eye coordination. The only difference is with a huge guy (like Neal) the body doesn't naturally respond as quickly to the mental observation/anticipation. Hence the focus on repetition.
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
There is o their team in professional sports (yes, that includes them all), that I hate more than the Philadelphia Eagles. I hate their fans, the sports media who covers them in that town, and the attention they get from the overall sports media.
I am a 66 year old lifetime NY Giants fan, and I have seen my team through the good and the bad years throughout my life, but the dominance shown by the Eagles over the Giants has been allowed by the Giants organisation for the past decade, and I am sick of it. It must stop! I hope that Joe Schoen acquires the players this team so desperately needs to improve the team for next season. Brian Daboll needs to focus on beating that wretched team twice during the regular season next season. This must end now!
The damn Eagles only won 4 games during the 2020 season, yet they are claiming they have a new dynasty according to their wretched fans and their media. They have acquired good players (Bradberry from the Giants unfortunately), but they should be toppled and exposed as pretenders!
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
I wonder if the Eagles defense on Hodgins threw Jones off - Hodgins is his security blanket. If so not a good sign.
I also thought, from the little I saw, that was a weak coaching game. They were simply not ready.
Thanks so much for these reviews. I thoroughly appreciate your work.
On Jones, did Philly commit a spy to neutralize Jones on his run options?
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
So you thought that all Daboll had to do was channel some TC and we beat the Eagles? Really?!! The talent level alone on the 07 and 11 teams was the key to victory. We didn’t even deserve to sniff the Eagles jock straps. I would like to try what you’re smoking
You mentioned a few kay players on the Giants didn't look 100%. What was you observation of the Eagles players? Results indicate that they were much healthier than expected. This was one of the edges Giants fans were hoping for in that game. Based on your review it was the opposite.
Pumped for your draft guides. Totally agree on all those needs and probably in that order. A true go to #1 WR is by far the biggest need. Crazy we made it as far as we did this year with WhAt we trotted out there, it cost us most when it mattered though. They need a solid FA vet and a couple new rookies at this group. DT, Edge and CB all right here as well. I think they can improve the OL in house with guys coming back healthy. Maybe look for an OC.
I think Barkley is the one guy you factor out if they can’t find $ for him. Dex, Thomas, Jones and McKinney all are such a bigger part of this teams future and more irreplaceable. They should look to bring in a RB from this class to groom to replace Barkley, a committee makes sense moving forward. I think they can tag Barkley and live with it, I know he is such a leader and vocal type, but looking at his career here it is very disappointing overall with the amount of time he has missed with injuries and just running behind a shit OL. The keys to improving this offense most importantly are going to come via the pass however, the best teams have multiple WRs that keep drives alive and break down defenses on their own. It’s much easier to scheme out a RB than it is a WR in the game today, and it’s easier to make defenses pay for taking away one key target when you have another that can consistently win 1-1 battles. Giants don’t currently have anyone that can be relied on to win their matchups, lots of work to do this offseason.
About Daniel Jones. I am a fan of his (even before this season), and I would have been fine had he put in a mediocre performance on Saturday. But I am quite distressed at how poorly he played. It is of course unfair to criticize just one player for a game that was a complete debacle for the entire team from the coaching staff on down.
But Daniel Jones played so poorly in so many ways! He was inaccurate with his passes, his internal clock was way off, there were the turnovers (which honestly didn’t bother me so much), and the crazy sack he took when he had rolled out to his right and inexplicably “forgot” to simply throw the ball away.
Most likely Joe Schoen spends a lot to resign Daniel Jones due to all the good things he did this season, but if in 5 years time that decision does not look like a wise one I think more than just a few fans may recall how small Daniel Jones played in Philly.
I learned a lot from you following these and other posts you have done over the course of the season. Appreciate all the efforts and again thank you.
About Daniel Jones. I am a fan of his (even before this season), and I would have been fine had he put in a mediocre performance on Saturday. But I am quite distressed at how poorly he played. It is of course unfair to criticize just one player for a game that was a complete debacle for the entire team from the coaching staff on down.
But Daniel Jones played so poorly in so many ways! He was inaccurate with his passes, his internal clock was way off, there were the turnovers (which honestly didn’t bother me so much), and the crazy sack he took when he had rolled out to his right and inexplicably “forgot” to simply throw the ball away.
Most likely Joe Schoen spends a lot to resign Daniel Jones due to all the good things he did this season, but if in 5 years time that decision does not look like a wise one I think more than just a few fans may recall how small Daniel Jones played in Philly.
I won't disagree with your reaction, but as you say, a one-game sample doesn't always tell the whole story. Eli looked equally clueless and inept in his first playoff game vs Carolina. Sometimes you have a bad day and the opponent has a very good one. How you move on, as a player and a team, will write your legacy.
You always do a thorough job.
Yeah we have to hope Neal can improve. The worrying part is he showed no improvement at all throughout the season and his weakness is footwork (something that is hard to correct). What do you do if he picks up right where he left off next year? They need to have a contingency plan.
Perhaps not but the staff should have a good idea how much is correctable with more time versus flaws that will be hard to correct. I hope if the later they bring in insurance. They need much better production from that spot imv.
My question for Sy would be about two passes to Darius Slayton. We all watched on Sunday when Dak Prescott underthrew a ball in the third quarter to Ceedee Lamb. Lamb slowed down, fought through a penalty by the defender, contorted his body, and made the catch. Jones underthrew the ball to Slayton and Slayton just waited for the ball to drop to him. He didn’t physically try to fight for it. On another pass thrown over the middle, Slayton didn’t really come back hard to the ball and the safety knocked it away. I seriously doubt that he’ll be back on the Giants next season, but what do you think about his future? Is he just who he is? Is there something that can be unlocked in a different role or system?
The coachable thing is massive. There were always chirpings that Flowers had an attitude, with Neal it seems to be the complete opposite.
It does not matter if you have spent resources in the past. If those resources didn't pan out, you have to keep spending until yo have what you need. And then, you need to keep spending more, though perhaps at a lower rate, to build a pipeline to maintain the OL as a strength.
As Sy said, it is 5 position, it represent about 23% of your starting players on offense and defense. People keep saying we have spent resources, but in the draft it has been nowhere near 23%, at least before Thomas and Neal. So we have a lot of past failure to for us catch up.
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I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
The coachable thing is massive. There were always chirpings that Flowers had an attitude, with Neal it seems to be the complete opposite.
Seems true, Flowers just seemed to have quite a few negatives. iirc he seemed to have had a better rookie year than Neal though.
If he IS however, be honest, and move him inside to G and draft an OT or sign one in FA until someone can develop.
Don't waste a bunch of years throwing him out there to fail to the point that he's useless. That's how the NYG let Flowers down.
Yeah, but how fair is it to expect those types of things from Slayton? Those are star qualities. He was a very late pick. That's the league telling you they don't see it likely he can play at a star level.
I have never seen Slayton play a contested catch style. He will get open on deep routes and win with speed, and he can run over the middle, again, with speed. His worst enemy is his hands. He will not do well when he has to win the fight against his hands AND outmuscle a defender.
Gabe Davis.
I think I'm staying away from both guys if I'm Joe S.
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The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yeah, but how fair is it to expect those types of things from Slayton? Those are star qualities. He was a very late pick. That's the league telling you they don't see it likely he can play at a star level.
I have never seen Slayton play a contested catch style. He will get open on deep routes and win with speed, and he can run over the middle, again, with speed. His worst enemy is his hands. He will not do well when he has to win the fight against his hands AND outmuscle a defender.
Slayton is a goner. With that said they need to find a similar player with wheels who can stretch the field as this offense is severely lacking in speed.
sigh
Thanks, Sy
There is still room for doubt. He hasn't proved much.
The comparison has to do with 2 things:
The level of struggle in their rookie year
And what is causing the struggle.
As a person and as a prospect out of college - Neal is head and shoulders above Flowers. I am not going there comparison wise. It is simply about the balance, footwork, and how badly he got beat throughout the year.
That is the maddening problem with Jones. He somehow manages to give evidence that both sides can use.
This is a huge contract decision, as Sy mentioned. Jones is a limited passer. Unless you are counting on him for 700-1000 yards rushing every year, there's a real question as to what he is worth. DC's will have all offseason to study what the Giants did, what worked against them and what didn't work. No more surprises.
I hear ya about Eli and that Carolina playoff. That was a doozy!
Would be nice for Daniel Jones to chart a parallel career with that of Eli! Real nice.
If Neal isn't going to thrive at OT (and it's early-I get it-I'm not saying he's not going to develop) move him to guard and solidify that spot...don't keep running him out there to get smoked at RT. Acknowledge the skill set he has look to fill the RT someone that can do the job.
What didn't send chills down my spine is Daboll's "My Way" theme. Seriously Daboll get a theme that kids raised in this century would understand, no wonder Giants came out so flat.
That roster was also easy better. Both of those teams would beat this team.
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
Surprised the interior OL didn’t get blasted. More so, just ‘meh’. To your point, would be great to have a real strength at some of these positions (C, OG)
Initial thought, they sucked. Secondary view at it - they were on par / average
Me neither. But it definitely crossed my mind. We all want to believe Neal is the next Thomas but he could be the next Flowers.
He was bad for Mac Jones too.
Neal has the same problems that Flowers had. The foot work of both players are suspect, which makes them vulnerable to speed rushers. At this point, relative to Flowers, Neal does not have a higher ceiling. I think Flowers had a better first year than Neal.
Big offseason for Neal.
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I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
The comparison has to do with 2 things:
The level of struggle in their rookie year
And what is causing the struggle.
As a person and as a prospect out of college - Neal is head and shoulders above Flowers. I am not going there comparison wise. It is simply about the balance, footwork, and how badly he got beat throughout the year.
Sy how easily are footwork and balance corrected? To a laymnan it seems like the footwork can be overcome with pracice and reps, some serious offseason work with Le Charles Bentley or someone like him. the balance scares me as it seems like you either have it or you don't, but again I don't really know as my playing days ended in high school.
Of all the Mara mistakes, bringing in/highly recomending Jason Garett has to be near the top. He was supposed to lend stability and an offensive mind to the coaching staff and he did neither, instead he was a detriment certainly as an OL.
Combo of Judge’s overly conservative mindset and Jason Garrett’s unimaginative offense.
I think Jones is still trying to shake off the shackles of the former. He’s gotta get back to turning it loose on some of these plays like he did as a rookie without being so worried about a turnover.
as sy said, the plays he botched probably don't mean the giants win the game if he made them, but it would be nice to see him be able to rise up in that situation.
instead he fell on his face.
i'm concerned about giving him a long-term deal, or at least one they can't easily get out of in a year or two.
has jones ever played well against strong defenses?
seems as though all of his signature wins have been against washington, or vs teams with bottom-5 defenses.
not sold.
I agree that of the Big Four players out there to be signed this off-season, Saquon Barkley may well get the short end of the stick.
First, thank you for all your time doing these write ups throughout the year.
Second, can you give us a glimmer of hope with regards to Neal? I've seen him do those box jumps on youtube and for someone 6' 7" and 360 lbs. it's really impressive. He obviously has the athletic traits to fix the balance and footwork deficiencies, correct???
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One minor quibble. Jones did not elevate in this game. I don't disagree with what you said he didn't do. But, the James drop would've been a TD. Not Jones' fault and he would've gotten credited with finding the end zone. The other quibble is that it's Slayton's responsibility to be more physical and contest some of the balls thrown his way. Heck, we see Cee Dee Lamb and other legit WRs man up and win contested balls. Who does that for Jones?
Yawn. The "it's always the receiver" excuse for Jones which goes all the way back to his college days. He has a guy who can win on contested balls-Galloway. The third stringer threw Galloway a ball and it was a td. Jones refuses to even look his way. Unless you are a short slant, hook, short out receiver, I don't see where Jones can utilize you. He isn't good on patterns crossing the field, seams, or fades. He isn't particularly good on swing passes. James was wide open; a simple pass toward the sideline that 3/4 of the pro qb's can make in their sleep, is thrown flat, high and up the field. Could James have made the catch? Yep. Was the degree of difficulty raised because of the throw? Yep.
That is the maddening problem with Jones. He somehow manages to give evidence that both sides can use.
This is a huge contract decision, as Sy mentioned. Jones is a limited passer. Unless you are counting on him for 700-1000 yards rushing every year, there's a real question as to what he is worth. DC's will have all offseason to study what the Giants did, what worked against them and what didn't work. No more surprises.
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
Next year we are beating Philly.
I think Garrett deserves a ton of blame.
That last sentence - you can say that again!
"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
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but looking at Daniel Jones' career under three different coaching staffs (3 HCs and 4 OCs), it's pretty clear that the Joe Judge era was bad new for Jones.
I think Garrett deserves a ton of blame.
Perhaps. But Judge's performance in New England tends to suggest he may have been the bigger problem. Plus ultimately, he did fire Garrett and replace him.
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"Galloway" only played a handful of snaps each game. That isn't Jones decision.
And Jones had no problem throwing Golden Tate (of all people) contested balls. You can watch highlight videos on YouTube from Tate’s time with the Giants and Jones gave him a bunch of opportunities for catches with defenders on top of him.
Tate had that core strength and Steve Smith (Carolina) tenacity, something none of our receivers have. You just have to turn on the friggin TV and watch.
The DJ synopsis was spot on. He was literally the best player on the field against the Vikings and the worst player on the field against the Eagles. If ever there was a flashing "danger Will Robinson" moment for this franchise, it was Saturday night. It continues to appear that reconciling DJ's contract expectations with the need to spend significant dollars elsewhere to upgrade the roster is not possible. While the franchise tag is being bandied about, this really doesn't solve the problem for the immediate season either given the huge cap hit.
Unless the quarterback is truly elite, ala Mahomes and Burrow, it simply makes no sense committing elite dollars to the quarterback position. Dak, Carr, Wentz, et al are better thought of now as lessons in what not to do rather than comparables that justify fair market value. Hopefully Schoen will show the same restraint that served him so well in his first year as he approaches the DJ decision.
I agree that Neal's comp on pass pro during his rookie year is Eric Flowers and not AT. I think the differences as stated on this thread are his character/coachability and much better run blocking. I still believe Neal can be a great Giant, but my guess is he will do so ultimately as a guard and not a tackle.
In terms of needs, while WR and TE are clearly the priority, the front seven on defense needs to be significantly reengineered. There is a good chance as you mention that other than Thibs, DL and perhaps Ward, the other spots could be completely overhauled. LW cannot continue to occupy such an outrageous percentage of the cap, especially when he "plays on ice skates" in meaningful games. If Schoen cannot orchestrate a pay cut, than LW should be cut and the savings applied to upgrade the front seven. And Ojulari is not the answer at edge. He is a reasonably good pass rusher, but he is too small and ineffectual against the run to be a three down player.
Looking forward to the upcoming draft season. Thanks again Sy.
So, I went back and read his pre-draft write up of Neal. While he does hit on the balance issues we are seeing - he said his constant position changes will likely lead to growing pains. He thinks his upside is top notch (elite). Accordingly, (per me) per Sy, another off season and training camp and season at RT should see him excel.
On one hand it's great to know he is capable of playin the way he did in those 2 critical wins and much of the season. But, Indy and Minny do not have good defenses. Philly is not only a good team, but a division rival. He needs to be able to beat this team, and Dallas eventually. This weekend did nothing to convince he can. I am not saying he can't. I just don't know. I have reverted back to thinking I would like him back, but not anywhere the $35M or more. If they give it to him, I will root like Hell for him and hope they improve the rest of the roster (defense included) to close the gap enough to compete with top teams.
2) Barkley - I kept thinking if they can't run the ball due to the score, Barkley should still be getting touches in the passing game. I didn't observe them keying on him, the way you did, but it would be an explanation. He is another tough call on re-signing. I absolutely love him and think from day 1 he has been the best player on the team. But, we all know how risky second contracts are for RBs. In my ideal world, Schoen is creative and finds a way to bring back both Barkley and Jones. Maybe less annual average, but mmore guaranteed money? I worry about bringing back Jones without have Barkley behind him.
3) WR - same thoughts. Slayton showed why he can't be a WR1 and James showed why he shouldn't be a top of the rotation WR also. Of the 3, Hodgins is the one I definitely want back because he has shown very good hands (even though that bobble cost us a first down), good route running, and for his lack of speed a good ability after the catch. He would be nice to rotate in as a WR3 or WR4, with legitimate WRs ahead of him. Of Slayton and James, I'd be fine if neither were back, but appreciate what they contributed this year.
4) OL - this is where I have really started to shift. I kept saying next year with Ezeudu at LG and Gates at OC we have a number of guys on roster to compete for RG with McKethan, Feliciano, Bredeson, and maybe Lemieux. I still think that may work, but I want a good interior OL in one of the first 3 rounds. The current guys, when all are healthy and the best 3 interior guyg shake out can be a good OL. An elite interior OL in the mix could make them a VERY good OL.
5) They need to reconsider their front. I like Wink and what his D accomplished. But, I think we need to be able to run a traditional 3-4 or 4-3. We have 2 DTs and backups at DT. We have no real DEs for either front. We tried to make up for it with lumbering ILBs, which didn't work out stopping the run, especially when either starting DT was out. I'm also not a fan of EDGE. Either make them 4-3 DEs or true OLBs. This may be old fashioned, OLBs and EDGE are not the same.
6) DBs - I think we have a decent amount of talent at both CB and S, but an elite guy at CB may be nice.
Interesting observations!
Go back and look at year one of his career.
Go back and look at year one of his career.
This is exactly why there is such a disparity in views. It has never been about physical talent. It is about what happens between DJ's ears.
Give DJ a clean pocket, first read wide open receivers and a badly schemed defense and he looks like a hybrid of Dan Marino and Steve Young. Put him in a position where he needs to go off script, process second and third reads and make pinpoint accurate passes under duress and he turns into a hybrid of Jameis Winston and Nathan Peterman.
Beating inferior teams is actually nothing to sneeze at in the NFL and it demonstrates DJ's great coachability. There is good value there. But it is not sufficient. He needs to consistently play well against superior teams. In his four years he has won exactly five games against teams that ended with a winning record: Saints and Raiders last year, Ravens, Jaguars and Vikings this year. None of whom can be considered top teams. This is a massive red flag!
Offense
Studs: 26 Players
Duds: 32 Players
Net: -6 Duds
Defense
Studs: 28 Players
Duds: 22 Players
Net: +6 Studs
Specials
Studs: 3 Players
Duds: 3 Players
Net: 0
No doubt Daniel Jones gave a lift to the offensive total with 7 Stud Awards and only 1 Dud. The flip side on offense is Evan Neal with 8 Dud Awards and 0 Stud Awards.
On defense, Dexter Lawrence was a perfect 8 for 8 -- all stud awards.
If he IS however, be honest, and move him inside to G and draft an OT or sign one in FA until someone can develop.
Don't waste a bunch of years throwing him out there to fail to the point that he's useless. That's how the NYG let Flowers down.
The thing to consider is that (1) Flowers was a jerk that had no interest in getting better, and (2) Flowers actually regressed after a promising rookie year.
Neal was no doubt awful this year, but he was re-learning right tackle while also learning NFL blocking techniques, and had a pretty severe knee sprain.
He's a smart guy and a hard worker, so I have hope.
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
WR is the worst unit on the team and maybe the worst in the league. It has to be fixed. You cannot field a team with a unit this bad no matter what that unit is. They need two more high quality players. Every other need takes a back seat to this.
What type of wide receiver though?
Robinson and Johnson might not be ready for the offseason programs and Golladay will get cut.
So what type of receiver? Standing is probably a good start.
Robinson and Johnson might not be ready for the offseason programs and Golladay will get cut.
So what type of receiver? Standing is probably a good start.
Well obviously, I was talking about skillset: slot receivers, smaller speedy receivers, contested catch receivers.
To me , it looks like THAT is the order of who performed well, comparatively.
Considering the talent level of the QBs team, the talent level of the opposition , and performance of the QBs team as a whole, I thought TL did well and far better than the next closest QB; DJ had a huge task; Dak underperformed, and Allen was at best disappointing.
"This line is one of the best I have ever seen. Their starters were brought in via the draft, every single one. 2011, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2021. Their backups? 2019, 2021, 2022, 2022. All in the draft or undrafted free agency. Feed the trenches. Draft better linemen. Then draft their backups. It will work."
[quote] In comment 16011883 gidiefor said:
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I think Neal is a much more coachable individual, smarter than Flowers, and with way more upside
Yeah we have to hope Neal can improve. The worrying part is he showed no improvement at all throughout the season and his weakness is footwork (something that is hard to correct). What do you do if he picks up right where he left off next year? They need to have a contingency plan. /quote]
Footwork is hard to correct. Where did you get that? It's one of the easiest things to correct. Footwork is based on observation and anticipation. "This happens and/or you see this, then move your feet this way and set (slide, push, etc.)". Train over and over again until the eye and feet coordination becomes automatic. It's exactly the same concept as hand/eye coordination. The only difference is with a huge guy (like Neal) the body doesn't naturally respond as quickly to the mental observation/anticipation. Hence the focus on repetition.
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
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Found this site last offseason and have enjoyed it immensely ever since without registering. Changed that this am. There are highly passionate fans here and many know the game. David's weekly write up is the highlight of the site in my view and I enjoy Biteymax's dispassionate review as well. Seems like posters have spent an outsized amount of time on the Jones debate, Gettlemans performance (sucked in my view) and wishing ill on Golladay and Toney. Loved this season because it was a flat out surprise. I expected 4-5 wins max. Jones I expected to be benched by mid season with Taylor finishing the year and by now...we would all be engaged discussing who the QB to get with our top 8 draft pick. Two cheers to Dabs and Schoen. Winning begins with leadership and those two give me confidence that this year wasnt a mirage. LFG Giants!
That is a hell of a first post. This place doesn't deserve you. Welcome.
Thanks Arcade!
I am a 66 year old lifetime NY Giants fan, and I have seen my team through the good and the bad years throughout my life, but the dominance shown by the Eagles over the Giants has been allowed by the Giants organisation for the past decade, and I am sick of it. It must stop! I hope that Joe Schoen acquires the players this team so desperately needs to improve the team for next season. Brian Daboll needs to focus on beating that wretched team twice during the regular season next season. This must end now!
The damn Eagles only won 4 games during the 2020 season, yet they are claiming they have a new dynasty according to their wretched fans and their media. They have acquired good players (Bradberry from the Giants unfortunately), but they should be toppled and exposed as pretenders!