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Eagles on Jones. It was easy. Took his first read away

MeanBunny : 1/24/2023 10:56 am
Quoted "Just taking away that first read because we knew they wanted to take us out of the game by getting away quick throws and by him extending the play with his legs,” Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham said after. “When you look at [Bills quarterback] Josh Allen and you see the system that he runs, it’s similar to what [the Giants] run; the same thing. We just played off that. Take away his first [read] and get him to move around. We gave ourselves a chance to put pressure on him. I think it’s a credit to [Eagles Defensive Coordinator Jonathan Gannon] and the coaches.”
Defense said it was "easy." Them made fun of Giants and said,"I thought the Giants were coming to town? Who was that??"
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To the victor goes the spoils  
Poktown Pete : 1/24/2023 10:58 am : link
Guess they have a right to gloat.
First off your whole premise is  
jvm52106 : 1/24/2023 11:00 am : link
to knock Jones- and you miss entirely. Notice they mention the Bills and Josh Allen- play them the same way. of course take the first read (why wouldn't you), you know your pass rush will get through. That whole statement isn't a knock on Jones, it is the reality that we have little options and basically tried to quick throw our way through teams to not expose our IOL and Neal to pass rush blocking for any longer than a quick moment.
cue the Jones haters to come in and see I told you so!  
Stu11 : 1/24/2023 11:00 am : link
meanwhile if you read the quote they defend Josh Allen the same exact way.
Really wish they figured out a way to run him more  
UConn4523 : 1/24/2023 11:01 am : link
we still lose but it would have been nice to see what impact that could have had. Lousy gameplan.
It’s time to start closing the gap  
Sean : 1/24/2023 11:01 am : link
.
Wow. What a smart strategy by the Eagles!  
Metnut : 1/24/2023 11:06 am : link
I’m impressed. Amazing that it took until the second round of the playoffs before anyone considered a crazy strategy like taking the QBs first read away.
RE: First off your whole premise is  
Dave in PA : 1/24/2023 11:06 am : link
In comment 16011742 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
to knock Jones- and you miss entirely. Notice they mention the Bills and Josh Allen- play them the same way. of course take the first read (why wouldn't you), you know your pass rush will get through. That whole statement isn't a knock on Jones, it is the reality that we have little options and basically tried to quick throw our way through teams to not expose our IOL and Neal to pass rush blocking for any longer than a quick moment.
right you are. Neal needs to get his act together starting week 1 of next season though. We can’t have hugely inconsistent, borderline bad, play out of the #7 pick and supposed “next 10 years” right tackle. We absolutely need to to be the goods or it sets this rebuild back a lot IMO
I think that last quote was from Suh...  
bceagle05 : 1/24/2023 11:06 am : link
A midseason pick-up off the scrap heap who played only a few snaps the other night. Great player in his prime, but now just a troll.
RE: cue the Jones haters to come in and see I told you so!  
ajr2456 : 1/24/2023 11:07 am : link
In comment 16011743 Stu11 said:
Quote:
meanwhile if you read the quote they defend Josh Allen the same exact way.


Allen hasn’t played the Eagles since Jim Schwartz was the DC. The only time Gannon ever faced Allen was as a CB coach with the Colts. They’re just saying the offense is similar, not that they’d run the same game plan.
Sounds  
Toth029 : 1/24/2023 11:07 am : link
More like he's knocking the system.
they also put a spy on Jones  
Producer : 1/24/2023 11:08 am : link
and they have fast LBs which the Vikings don't.
RE: Sounds  
Producer : 1/24/2023 11:09 am : link
In comment 16011768 Toth029 said:
Quote:
More like he's knocking the system.


perhaps. but this is the system Jones can run and be somewhat effective. Jones hasn't shown he can excel in a pocket passing system.
RE: Really wish they figured out a way to run him more  
bw in dc : 1/24/2023 11:10 am : link
In comment 16011746 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
we still lose but it would have been nice to see what impact that could have had. Lousy gameplan.


If I had to guess, Philly made a concerted effort, with either a safety or LB, to keep a spy on Jones on every play. That's the strength of Jones's game and he killed Minnesota with it. So, Philly declared early - find another approach to move the ball...

RE: First off your whole premise is  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/24/2023 11:10 am : link
In comment 16011742 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
to knock Jones- and you miss entirely. Notice they mention the Bills and Josh Allen- play them the same way. of course take the first read (why wouldn't you), you know your pass rush will get through. That whole statement isn't a knock on Jones, it is the reality that we have little options and basically tried to quick throw our way through teams to not expose our IOL and Neal to pass rush blocking for any longer than a quick moment.


This.
RE: RE: Really wish they figured out a way to run him more  
Producer : 1/24/2023 11:11 am : link
In comment 16011776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16011746 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


we still lose but it would have been nice to see what impact that could have had. Lousy gameplan.



If I had to guess, Philly made a concerted effort, with either a safety or LB, to keep a spy on Jones on every play. That's the strength of Jones's game and he killed Minnesota with it. So, Philly declared early - find another approach to move the ball...


You're not going to have wide open, uncontested, QB running lanes that we saw against the Vikings when we play good defenses.
RE: Sounds  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/24/2023 11:12 am : link
In comment 16011768 Toth029 said:
Quote:
More like he's knocking the system.


More that our OL can't sustain pass pro for long and they have great players throughout their defense.
Is the OP suggesting Jones  
joeinpa : 1/24/2023 11:12 am : link
Is incapable of progressing to his second and third read? That seems unlikely

Unless I m wrong going through your progressions. Begins with option 1

However a problem could arise if the protection breaks down before you can get to #2 or 3

As Daniel was pressured on 65% of his drop backs, seems to me it was a sound game plan by the Eagles
RE: RE: First off your whole premise is  
Producer : 1/24/2023 11:12 am : link
In comment 16011777 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16011742 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


to knock Jones- and you miss entirely. Notice they mention the Bills and Josh Allen- play them the same way. of course take the first read (why wouldn't you), you know your pass rush will get through. That whole statement isn't a knock on Jones, it is the reality that we have little options and basically tried to quick throw our way through teams to not expose our IOL and Neal to pass rush blocking for any longer than a quick moment.



This.


Not this.
RE: Is the OP suggesting Jones  
Producer : 1/24/2023 11:13 am : link
In comment 16011782 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Is incapable of progressing to his second and third read? That seems unlikely

Unless I m wrong going through your progressions. Begins with option 1

However a problem could arise if the protection breaks down before you can get to #2 or 3

As Daniel was pressured on 65% of his drop backs, seems to me it was a sound game plan by the Eagles


There is no third read for Jones. The secret of his late season success was first read.. second read (time permitting)... run. They were coaching him to take off if the first or 2nd read wasn't there.
That's a very good football team.  
sb2003 : 1/24/2023 11:14 am : link
We don't have the horses.
Eagles said it, not me  
MeanBunny : 1/24/2023 11:16 am : link

Jones supporters are little like Keynesian Economists. If you just print more money, it's gonna be fine. If Jones had this and that it would be fine. Print print print, the theory should work.
The post, which comes from Eagles defensive coach, merely points out what they did. They said it was easy. They said how easy it was.
I mean, I am OK with Jones resigning but he is not the second coming of Steve Young OK.
my take is that they knew Jones would not have  
markky : 1/24/2023 11:17 am : link
time to get to his 2nd or 3rd options, which turned out to be true. they also cut off his running lanes. good game plan on the Eagles part.

i don't take it as a knock on Jones, more a knock on our ability to protect Jones.
Another reason as to why fixing the OL is crucial  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/24/2023 11:17 am : link
all the talk is about the Giants adding a WR1, Mike LB, another CB, etc. (all of which are needs), I still think the biggest need heading into the offseason is building the line. Who else on the line can be trusted right now outside of Andrew Thomas?
so a team with an average at best OL  
djm : 1/24/2023 11:18 am : link
and average at best WRs, going up against a nasty as fuck D and pass rush and secondary, so its QB and offense struggle once that great D took away the first option.

Color me shocked.

Try and think this one through before some of you start poking your DJ dolls with needles once again.
How did they know  
LS : 1/24/2023 11:18 am : link
what he first read was on every play?
I mean they had 70 sacks  
Heisenberg : 1/24/2023 11:19 am : link
Of course they wanted to take away the first read.
I can't wait  
Ron Johnson : 1/24/2023 11:19 am : link
until those scumbags lose.
Jones's biggest weaknesses have always been  
BigBlue7 : 1/24/2023 11:20 am : link
Getting through his progressions and reading a defense that shifts into something else post-snap.

No surprises here
markyy  
Pete from Woodstock : 1/24/2023 11:20 am : link
is correct ding ding ding
RE: Another reason as to why fixing the OL is crucial  
MeanBunny : 1/24/2023 11:20 am : link
In comment 16011799 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
Who else on the line can be trusted right now outside of Andrew Thomas?

Brock Purdy's pockets were slow to break down and sometimes he had all day. And afterwards he scrambled and had the hot hands to catch his stuff. Jones O-Line was total crap. But come on, Dabs knows Neal is the Staypuff Marshmallow. So there was something clearly bad with the scheme this time around
RE: How did they know  
BigBlue7 : 1/24/2023 11:20 am : link
In comment 16011803 LS said:
Quote:
what he first read was on every play?


Based on formations and personnel
RE: RE: Is the OP suggesting Jones  
joeinpa : 1/24/2023 11:22 am : link
In comment 16011788 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 16011782 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Is incapable of progressing to his second and third read? That seems unlikely

Unless I m wrong going through your progressions. Begins with option 1

However a problem could arise if the protection breaks down before you can get to #2 or 3

As Daniel was pressured on 65% of his drop backs, seems to me it was a sound game plan by the Eagles



There is no third read for Jones. The secret of his late season success was first read.. second read (time permitting)... run. They were coaching him to take off if the first or 2nd read wasn't there.


Worked pretty well. Seems the coaches tried to mitigate perceived deficiencies of the offense
RE: How did they know  
MeanBunny : 1/24/2023 11:22 am : link
In comment 16011803 LS said:
Quote:
what he first read was on every play?


That's a good point. Jones was getting better looking away from first read last 2 games but I guess he regressed and stared down his primary target.
RE: RE: RE: First off your whole premise is  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/24/2023 11:23 am : link
In comment 16011783 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 16011777 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16011742 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


to knock Jones- and you miss entirely. Notice they mention the Bills and Josh Allen- play them the same way. of course take the first read (why wouldn't you), you know your pass rush will get through. That whole statement isn't a knock on Jones, it is the reality that we have little options and basically tried to quick throw our way through teams to not expose our IOL and Neal to pass rush blocking for any longer than a quick moment.



This.



Not this.


Because our OL apart from Thomas is good at pass pro? Because our WRs are in the same zip code as most other highly contending teams?

I would take a moment to consider DJ needs to be judged in the context of the talent around him vs judged by stats only . Hurts didnt magically become great, nor did Allen, or Lawrence , or Tua. Each ones production increased when they got another #1 WR added to their team. On the other side of the coin Herbert suddenly kinda sucked and so did Rogers for much of the year. When Herbert got his recievers back from injury he played better and when the light bulb went of for Watson so did Rogers.

Not one of any of the recivers DJ had in his entire career would be even a number 2 on almost any Eli manning team. Maybe only one starter beats out his OL of Diehl Snee OHara Suebert McKenzie
RE: Eagles said it, not me  
section125 : 1/24/2023 11:23 am : link
In comment 16011795 MeanBunny said:
Quote:

Jones supporters are little like Keynesian Economists. If you just print more money, it's gonna be fine. If Jones had this and that it would be fine. Print print print, the theory should work.
The post, which comes from Eagles defensive coach, merely points out what they did. They said it was easy. They said how easy it was.
I mean, I am OK with Jones resigning but he is not the second coming of Steve Young OK.


Well aren't you Einstein..I could tell you how the defend Jones - Detroit did it, too.
This time they doubled Hodgins to take away the quick read, they ran through Neal like he wasn't there and spied on Jones to prevent the QB runs.
Eagles have a very, very good defense and they did it to most teams the entire year. A team with limited offensive weapons, like the Giants, is easy to defend when your defense is that good and the oline that bad...
RE: RE: cue the Jones haters to come in and see I told you so!  
allstarjim : 1/24/2023 11:32 am : link
In comment 16011764 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16011743 Stu11 said:


Quote:


meanwhile if you read the quote they defend Josh Allen the same exact way.



Allen hasn’t played the Eagles since Jim Schwartz was the DC. The only time Gannon ever faced Allen was as a CB coach with the Colts. They’re just saying the offense is similar, not that they’d run the same game plan.


Came here to say this...yeah, the Eagles haven't played Buffalo since 2019.

Also, and I know, this is going to be quite the controversial statement...but maybe, just MAYBE, Josh Allen is a lot better than Daniel Jones and is able to still make plays happen very often even if you do take away his first read?

I think the takeaway here is they had a game plan to take away Hodgins. Hodgins had 8 catches on 9 targets against Minnesota, 4 for 5 in the Colts, 8 for 12 in the first Minnesota game.

I'm curious to see what Sy says or if he saw something in the All-22, but it looked like there was a lot of coverage on the crossers and intermediate area of the field where Daniel really likes to work as well.

The Giants are going to need to get a receiver that is a legitimate downfield threat to command safety attention so that these underneath throwing lanes aren't so clogged. And Daniel has to not be afraid to cut it loose sometimes.

There were occasions in my watch of the game that Daniel didn't take a throw because the receiver was covered, but in some spots you have to trust your receiver to make a play and give him a chance, if it's one-on-one. There were times where the receiver had a 2-yard cushion, and Daniel didn't make the throw. That is where you can "throw your receiver open."

It was a great game plan by the Eagles. I expect that if they played that way against Josh Allen, he'd beat them over the top. Giants need their version of Gabe Davis. Hell, Stephon Diggs, too.

Hodgins is a good receiver to stick around but obviously he's more of a complementary piece.

Another thing that Allen does is he hits Knox on deep outs and seams. Bellinger might not have that sort of deep ability, he's also better on those short and intermediate routes, maybe. Hard to say because I haven't really seen them try Bellinger on those types of routes. It maybe that is because he's not that kind of TE, or it may be that is just not in their scheme. If it's the former, another TE that can stretch the middle or get deep on the outside would be a nice-to-have. Not more important than the critical upgrades at WR.

But the more I look at Hodgins, I think he could be really good as a slot. Not the same kind of slot as a Wan'Dale, who is really explosive out of breaks, but a bigger slot who runs good routes, catches just about everything, and is a bigger target.
RE: RE: Eagles said it, not me  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/24/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16011821 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16011795 MeanBunny said:


Quote:



Jones supporters are little like Keynesian Economists. If you just print more money, it's gonna be fine. If Jones had this and that it would be fine. Print print print, the theory should work.
The post, which comes from Eagles defensive coach, merely points out what they did. They said it was easy. They said how easy it was.
I mean, I am OK with Jones resigning but he is not the second coming of Steve Young OK.



Well aren't you Einstein..I could tell you how the defend Jones - Detroit did it, too.
This time they doubled Hodgins to take away the quick read, they ran through Neal like he wasn't there and spied on Jones to prevent the QB runs.
Eagles have a very, very good defense and they did it to most teams the entire year. A team with limited offensive weapons, like the Giants, is easy to defend when your defense is that good and the oline that bad...


They can gameplan and scheme to a point but when the talent disparity is stark and the other team has a good gameplan themselves, guys like Hodgins Slayton and James are going to get contained enough for the opposing pass-rush to get home against the likes of our pass protectors.
RE: Eagles said it, not me  
Producer : 1/24/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16011795 MeanBunny said:
Quote:

Jones supporters are little like Keynesian Economists. If you just print more money, it's gonna be fine. If Jones had this and that it would be fine. Print print print, the theory should work.
The post, which comes from Eagles defensive coach, merely points out what they did. They said it was easy. They said how easy it was.
I mean, I am OK with Jones resigning but he is not the second coming of Steve Young OK.


I like your football take better than your economics take.
Winners tell jokes  
Matt in SGS : 1/24/2023 11:34 am : link
losers say deal.

It is what it is. However, ultimately, of course the Giants were going to go to a quick read for Jones. They knew their OL wasn't going to hold up to the Philly pass rush. So did Philly. This was a mismatch, Giants weren't ready for them. Odds are this group is going to win the Super Bowl.

However, that said, I know they have the 10th pick, but a lot of their key players/leaders are older. Graham is 35 and likely won't be back. Neither will Cox. Kelce will retire. Johnson getting older. That team will have a target on their back all next year & will have a turnover on the roster with no guarantee their younger guys will necessarily be as good as the those they are replacing, which is what people are assuming.

Giants are going to close the gap on them quicker than people realize. I just hope they keep the camera on Sirianni's dumb ass face when they do flip the script on them. Also, watch the fans turn on him as soon as it happens. They are all playing to a mouthbreathing fan base who will throw them out the second they start losing.
Also, meant to add  
allstarjim : 1/24/2023 11:36 am : link
that Hodgins only had 1 catch on 3 targets in this game vs the Eagles, to contrast against the other recent usage above. He did not play in week 18 against the Eagles.
RE: RE: How did they know  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/24/2023 11:36 am : link
In comment 16011818 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
In comment 16011803 LS said:


Quote:


what he first read was on every play?



That's a good point. Jones was getting better looking away from first read last 2 games but I guess he regressed and stared down his primary target.


They 'know' the first read of a play based on film study of the offense and tendencies. They aren't going to get it right every time but they probably deduced it part of the time.
Agree with the posters  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/24/2023 11:42 am : link
saying that the quick passing game was a counter to the poor OL but even more than that it was the inability to run the ball well enough. This happened starting with Seattle and exposed the Giants weaknesses; the OL and WR's.

WFT second game third drive is where the switched up. Instead of running as they had in previous weeks and not getting enough desired results they used the quick PG on early downs.

All comes back to the same things. We still have a LOS problem against the better fronts.

From yesterday I believe JS is well aware of it and it will get a lot of attention imv on both sides.
.  
ChrisRick : 1/24/2023 11:42 am : link
This is more than likely not an 'either or' situation. A likely combination of Jones, the OL, wide receivers, system, opponent etc. I think the picture is too murky to say with assurance what was the biggest factor besides opponent.
I'm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/24/2023 11:42 am : link
still getting the sense that many Giants fans are in denial about how good this Eagles team is this year. You don't see many teams with top-3 offenses and defenses at the same time.
lol  
Johnny5 : 1/24/2023 11:44 am : link
This is not a knock on Jones. Or should say, this is not ONLY a knock on Jones. It's a knock against the whole NY Giants offense and scheme. It's been noted time and time again that the scheme was designed for Jones to make quick throws to negate the weaknesses of our pass blocking. It played out exactly as he said. Even when Jones had time, no one was open. And the DL was abusing our OL all game. We couldn't match up worse with a defense than that Philly defense.

But we knew as soon as the offense stumbled everyone would be back out of their hiding places. "See?? See??"

LOL
I am okay with re-signing Jones to a reasonable contract  
US1 Giants : 1/24/2023 11:45 am : link
but get tired of the arguments that any shortcoming of DJ is some other player's fault.
RE: lol  
allstarjim : 1/24/2023 11:46 am : link
In comment 16011872 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
This is not a knock on Jones. Or should say, this is not ONLY a knock on Jones. It's a knock against the whole NY Giants offense and scheme. It's been noted time and time again that the scheme was designed for Jones to make quick throws to negate the weaknesses of our pass blocking. It played out exactly as he said. Even when Jones had time, no one was open. And the DL was abusing our OL all game. We couldn't match up worse with a defense than that Philly defense.

But we knew as soon as the offense stumbled everyone would be back out of their hiding places. "See?? See??"

LOL


Who are these posters that were hiding? Not me, not Jon, not ajr, I have no idea who you're talking about.
RE: I'm  
CromartiesKid21 : 1/24/2023 11:48 am : link
In comment 16011868 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
still getting the sense that many Giants fans are in denial about how good this Eagles team is this year. You don't see many teams with top-3 offenses and defenses at the same time.


All over philly sports radio the debate is if this is the greatest Eagles team ever assembled
RE: I'm  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/24/2023 11:49 am : link
In comment 16011868 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
still getting the sense that many Giants fans are in denial about how good this Eagles team is this year. You don't see many teams with top-3 offenses and defenses at the same time.


You hate to say it but this is very true. They are well coached to boot. Hard to find a weakness and many areas on the team are high level strengths. The hope was Hurts wasn't the real deal but once he got AJ Brown in Sirianni's QB friendly offense he took off.

Hopefully NYG closes the gap this offseason.

I think they now have a coaching stuff that can create a masterpeice if you give them the ingredients and we have cap space and maneuverability if we want to.

RE: RE: First off your whole premise is  
No1MDGiantsFan : 1/24/2023 11:49 am : link
In comment 16011777 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16011742 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


to knock Jones- and you miss entirely. Notice they mention the Bills and Josh Allen- play them the same way. of course take the first read (why wouldn't you), you know your pass rush will get through. That whole statement isn't a knock on Jones, it is the reality that we have little options and basically tried to quick throw our way through teams to not expose our IOL and Neal to pass rush blocking for any longer than a quick moment.



This.


So much this
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