Quoted "Just taking away that first read because we knew they wanted to take us out of the game by getting away quick throws and by him extending the play with his legs,” Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham said after. “When you look at [Bills quarterback] Josh Allen and you see the system that he runs, it’s similar to what [the Giants] run; the same thing. We just played off that. Take away his first [read] and get him to move around. We gave ourselves a chance to put pressure on him. I think it’s a credit to [Eagles Defensive Coordinator Jonathan Gannon] and the coaches.”
Defense said it was "easy." Them made fun of Giants and said,"I thought the Giants were coming to town? Who was that??"
I don't think there was even one holding penalty called on the eagles offensive line the whole game and that say alot.
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what he first read was on every play?
Based on formations and personnel
Lots film study and the fact that they played them twice this year as well. They used their bye week wisely too. Probably got a good look at both Vikes and Giants offenses on film.
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Jones supporters are little like Keynesian Economists. If you just print more money, it's gonna be fine. If Jones had this and that it would be fine. Print print print, the theory should work.
The post, which comes from Eagles defensive coach, merely points out what they did. They said it was easy. They said how easy it was.
I mean, I am OK with Jones resigning but he is not the second coming of Steve Young OK.
I like your football take better than your economics take.
The economics take sounded like the US of A debt situation,
but hey, that's just me. Just a joke, no political agenda here okay...
Agreed Eric. Roseman has built the most complete team I've ever seen them have. They have no holes. It's incredible when you think of how Carson Wentz was the presumptive starter finishing the 2020 season. The trade they made with the Colts allowed them to get DeVonta Smith and with other moves and dominoes, Jalen Hurts.
Further, they barely played their first round pick this year, Jordan Davis, the heir-apparent to Fletcher Cox. It's incredible.
I think they'll get a quick education this weekend when the Eagles smoke the Niners.
I don't think there was even one holding penalty called on the eagles offensive line the whole game and that say alot.
Funny thing is I haven’t seen many holding penalties called this whole year. It appears like the NFL is only calling blatant holds and letting them play. Yea there’s been plenty of blatant holds not called too.
I just think with some personnel limitations it was hard to do that.
That D is equipped better to handle Jones as a threat combined with the pass rushers and secondary its a tough matchup.
Don't look at it that way. You ever watch boxing? "Styles make fights." I haven't read through the whole thread but this was the case with the Eagles. Not only are they (likely) the most talented overall team in the league except SF, but they are a terrible matchup for us with their pass rush. The statement is being cherry picked with "I told you so's" as a Jones slam, but it isn't. It's a fact of what they needed to do (and did) to completely shut down the offense. There is not one person to slam there. The whole offense as constructed is to blame. All players and the scheme we had to employ based on the talent we have.
I will say this and that's it. A lot of those early season wins were on the backs of the defense and Saquon. DJ wasn't exactly lighting it up in the pass game. He was getting some good runs in, yes. But he only exceeded 200 passing yards twice in the first 9 games.
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what he first read was on every play?
That's a good point. Jones was getting better looking away from first read last 2 games but I guess he regressed and stared down his primary target.
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still getting the sense that many Giants fans are in denial about how good this Eagles team is this year. You don't see many teams with top-3 offenses and defenses at the same time.
I think they'll get a quick education this weekend when the Eagles smoke the Niners.
Well, I hope not, pulling for the Niners. If the Niners don't play better offensively than last weekend, they won't win though. Only 19 points, that won't cut it against Iggles. I think Niners can run on them?
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still getting the sense that many Giants fans are in denial about how good this Eagles team is this year. You don't see many teams with top-3 offenses and defenses at the same time.
Agreed Eric. Roseman has built the most complete team I've ever seen them have. They have no holes. It's incredible when you think of how Carson Wentz was the presumptive starter finishing the 2020 season. The trade they made with the Colts allowed them to get DeVonta Smith and with other moves and dominoes, Jalen Hurts.
Further, they barely played their first round pick this year, Jordan Davis, the heir-apparent to Fletcher Cox. It's incredible.
And have the #10 pick to add to an already complete team. If they wanted to they could let Sanders walk, trade down acquire more picks, and add Bijan Robinson and improve the offense more. Or they can take one of the highest rated pass rushers and make the defense even scarier.
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but get tired of the arguments that any shortcoming of DJ is some other player's fault.
Don't look at it that way. You ever watch boxing? "Styles make fights." I haven't read through the whole thread but this was the case with the Eagles. Not only are they (likely) the most talented overall team in the league except SF, but they are a terrible matchup for us with their pass rush. The statement is being cherry picked with "I told you so's" as a Jones slam, but it isn't. It's a fact of what they needed to do (and did) to completely shut down the offense. There is not one person to slam there. The whole offense as constructed is to blame. All players and the scheme we had to employ based on the talent we have.
I hope the Giants bring him back, but no more excuses for ever mistake!
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Is incapable of progressing to his second and third read? That seems unlikely
Unless I m wrong going through your progressions. Begins with option 1
However a problem could arise if the protection breaks down before you can get to #2 or 3
As Daniel was pressured on 65% of his drop backs, seems to me it was a sound game plan by the Eagles
There is no third read for Jones. The secret of his late season success was first read.. second read (time permitting)... run. They were coaching him to take off if the first or 2nd read wasn't there.
You obviously don't watch the games if you believe that.
Roseman is a savant. He's outlasted Banner, Reid, Kelly, and Pederson.
The Philly football world from time-to-time wants to drag that guy down, but he's excellent at this.
The end.
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Is incapable of progressing to his second and third read? That seems unlikely
Unless I m wrong going through your progressions. Begins with option 1
However a problem could arise if the protection breaks down before you can get to #2 or 3
As Daniel was pressured on 65% of his drop backs, seems to me it was a sound game plan by the Eagles
There is no third read for Jones. The secret of his late season success was first read.. second read (time permitting)... run. They were coaching him to take off if the first or 2nd read wasn't there.
No reason to argue with you Producer. If you believe Daboll understands NFL Quarterbacking skills, then we'll have the answer soon enough in the re-signing of Jones. If you are correct and he can't read defenses, or get to his 2nd/3rd reads then why would Daboll agree to tie himself to Jones?
This is like saying you have to run the ball and stop the run to win in the NFL.
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what he first read was on every play?
Based on formations and personnel
DJ was 15/27. So 15 times they either didn't know what the first read was or weren't able to take it away.
The other 12 times, plus the times he pulled it down and ran or was sacked, they probably took it away.
Taking away the first read 50% of the time is enough when you have a very good pass rush and can collapse the pocket.
The Philly football world from time-to-time wants to drag that guy down, but he's excellent at this.
The decision to buy Hurts in the second round as a hedge against Wentz not living up to his contract is a great case study that you should always be looking for the next QB.
Always.
Teams have been doing this to us for 5 years
Teams have been doing this to us for 5 years
People reading this as an shot at Jones are viewing it through anti-Jones colored glasses. Its more a slam on 1) the OL and 2) the crappy Wrs ability to do anything more than quick hitters.
Judge his season as whole.
9-7-1
Won his first playoff game
Lost to the number 1 seed.
He was pressured on 26.6 percent of his drop backs. His
accuracy was number one in the entire NFL at over 81%. He was 4th in the least bad throws. Red Zone efficiency we know was 8th. YAC was near the bottom. WRs were bottom of the league and the OL was average at best.
Jones deserves the contract he going to get.
This is an ascending player.
Advanced passing stats - ( New Window )
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take away the first read (the quick pass). That means the QB needs more time to get to his 2nd and 3rd reads, but you know the DL/LBs will get there before the QB has the time. Take away the quick pass and the RB out of the backfield, then Jones has to run because the OL won't hold up.
Teams have been doing this to us for 5 years
People reading this as an shot at Jones are viewing it through anti-Jones colored glasses. Its more a slam on 1) the OL and 2) the crappy Wrs ability to do anything more than quick hitters.
Agreed, but we can use a first rate burner which would greatly aid DJ..Bring in more talent for OL, especially the interior
The end.
Yep, the offense as currently constructed is to protect itself from its weaknesses (Jones included) and to use what it does well, which is quick passes and YAC. As you set up the defense for play action etc, then you must hit your vertical routes when opportunity presents itself. Giants struggled to get the quick routes and YAC going, and couldn't sustain anything. Dead in the water.
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The Philly football world from time-to-time wants to drag that guy down, but he's excellent at this.
The decision to buy Hurts in the second round as a hedge against Wentz not living up to his contract is a great case study that you should always be looking for the next QB.
Always.
There it is. Post of the Day.
I don't think there was even one holding penalty called on the eagles offensive line the whole game and that say alot.
Now do it for the Giant's OL.
Blocking is holding.
Unless I m wrong going through your progressions. Begins with option 1
However a problem could arise if the protection breaks down before you can get to #2 or 3
As Daniel was pressured on 65% of his drop backs, seems to me it was a sound game plan by the Eagles
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saw the key to stopping Giant offense was containing and pressuring Jones. They executed from every level of their defense to stop the run, pressure the QB, and take away the wideouts ability to get separation as much as possible and Jones designed run/scramble lanes, and Giants had no answers.
The end.
Yep, the offense as currently constructed is to protect itself from its weaknesses (Jones included) and to use what it does well, which is quick passes and YAC. As you set up the defense for play action etc, then you must hit your vertical routes when opportunity presents itself. Giants struggled to get the quick routes and YAC going, and couldn't sustain anything. Dead in the water.
Against the number 2 defense in the NFL, that posted historic sack numbers, Jones was dead in the water. He wasn't the only QB that did not play well against them. They were rested as well.
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In comment 16011971 Sammo85 said:
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saw the key to stopping Giant offense was containing and pressuring Jones. They executed from every level of their defense to stop the run, pressure the QB, and take away the wideouts ability to get separation as much as possible and Jones designed run/scramble lanes, and Giants had no answers.
The end.
Yep, the offense as currently constructed is to protect itself from its weaknesses (Jones included) and to use what it does well, which is quick passes and YAC. As you set up the defense for play action etc, then you must hit your vertical routes when opportunity presents itself. Giants struggled to get the quick routes and YAC going, and couldn't sustain anything. Dead in the water.
Actually, it got them to the playoffs and the lost to the number 1 seed that is the current favorite to win the Superbowl. Much better than dead in the water. The OL was average at best and WRs were practice squad players. Very reasonable to believe that with a slightly better OL and some receivers this offense takes the next step.
Against the number 2 defense in the NFL, that posted historic sack numbers, Jones was dead in the water. He wasn't the only QB that did not play well against them. They were rested as well.
Great post
Of course..The Eagles are where Schoen and Daboll need yo take us
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In comment 16011971 Sammo85 said:
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saw the key to stopping Giant offense was containing and pressuring Jones. They executed from every level of their defense to stop the run, pressure the QB, and take away the wideouts ability to get separation as much as possible and Jones designed run/scramble lanes, and Giants had no answers.
The end.
Yep, the offense as currently constructed is to protect itself from its weaknesses (Jones included) and to use what it does well, which is quick passes and YAC. As you set up the defense for play action etc, then you must hit your vertical routes when opportunity presents itself. Giants struggled to get the quick routes and YAC going, and couldn't sustain anything. Dead in the water.
Actually, it got them to the playoffs and the lost to the number 1 seed that is the current favorite to win the Superbowl. Much better than dead in the water. The OL was average at best and WRs were practice squad players. Very reasonable to believe that with a slightly better OL and some receivers this offense takes the next step.
Against the number 2 defense in the NFL, that posted historic sack numbers, Jones was dead in the water. He wasn't the only QB that did not play well against them. They were rested as well.
This offseason is an important one. We have a coaching staff that can cook a wholesome meal with the right ingredients. Will we follow the 2021 Eagles model? Add a #1WR, #2 M2M CB in addition to resigning our core and a couple other pieces.
If Schoen pulls this off this 9-7-1 team could be closer to an 11-12 win team next year.
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The Philly football world from time-to-time wants to drag that guy down, but he's excellent at this.
The decision to buy Hurts in the second round as a hedge against Wentz not living up to his contract is a great case study that you should always be looking for the next QB.
Always.
Agreed. Roseman is certainly looking like a savant here. And the way he built that roster, ridiculous. I really don't want them to win another SB, but damn it sure looks a damn good bet right now.
Sorry, if I am off on tangent but this season for that kid should be celebrated. I bristle that some take every opportunity to ding him here. It seems small at times.
None that is directed at you Jon, but the board in general. I have enormous respect for both your contributions to BBI and your football acumen. I have diverged from your position on Jones that we previously agreed on. I saw improvements this year that you did not. Nothing personal.
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In comment 16011971 Sammo85 said:
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saw the key to stopping Giant offense was containing and pressuring Jones. They executed from every level of their defense to stop the run, pressure the QB, and take away the wideouts ability to get separation as much as possible and Jones designed run/scramble lanes, and Giants had no answers.
The end.
Yep, the offense as currently constructed is to protect itself from its weaknesses (Jones included) and to use what it does well, which is quick passes and YAC. As you set up the defense for play action etc, then you must hit your vertical routes when opportunity presents itself. Giants struggled to get the quick routes and YAC going, and couldn't sustain anything. Dead in the water.
Actually, it got them to the playoffs and the lost to the number 1 seed that is the current favorite to win the Superbowl. Much better than dead in the water. The OL was average at best and WRs were practice squad players. Very reasonable to believe that with a slightly better OL and some receivers this offense takes the next step.
Against the number 2 defense in the NFL, that posted historic sack numbers, Jones was dead in the water. He wasn't the only QB that did not play well against them. They were rested as well.
Much more likely, this team is headed for a regression.
Philly has been committed to the lines since Reid came in.
What he has been really smart about is not getting away what has been the strength of the franchise. Keeping the fronts near the top.
This was the Giants way of doing business or a long time with some downturns and they were better at it. Philly flipped the script and they got better. Dallas as well.
Now it Schoen's job to restore the Giants foundation and the execution will play a big part where this team goes.
This offseason is an important one. We have a coaching staff that can cook a wholesome meal with the right ingredients. Will we follow the 2021 Eagles model? Add a #1WR, #2 M2M CB in addition to resigning our core and a couple other pieces.
If Schoen pulls this off this 9-7-1 team could be closer to an 11-12 win team next year.
The Eagles didn't give their starting QB and RB $45-50 million in AAV contracts between last year and this one. The Giants are going to have a hard time adding the pieces they will need to get on that level, and they almost certainly won't be able to do it in one offseason.
People need to be prepared for this still to be a multi-year rebuild, and for 2023 to perhaps be disappointing.
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This offseason is an important one. We have a coaching staff that can cook a wholesome meal with the right ingredients. Will we follow the 2021 Eagles model? Add a #1WR, #2 M2M CB in addition to resigning our core and a couple other pieces.
If Schoen pulls this off this 9-7-1 team could be closer to an 11-12 win team next year.
The Eagles didn't give their starting QB and RB $45-50 million in AAV contracts between last year and this one. The Giants are going to have a hard time adding the pieces they will need to get on that level, and they almost certainly won't be able to do it in one offseason.
People need to be prepared for this still to be a multi-year rebuild, and for 2023 to perhaps be disappointing.
There are options....and rumors already of Leo's large 32M cap hit being futher reduced.
Cap currently is third in NFL space at around 60M
Notable potential options for further space...
Leo extension 13.5M
Golladay cut 13.5M
Adoree extension 8M
Lawrence extension 9M
Current cap 60M which can go up to a quite robust 104M with all 4 of those moves. 80-90 with 2 or 3.
Spitballing here and they probably won't do all this but they could fit it under the cap conceivably....or maybe they accomplish the top 4 on the list and go bargain shoping for the rest?
1.Barkley 10M 2023 cap hit
2.Jones 22M 2023 cap hit (For reference Daks was 19M 1st year)
3.Trade for a bigtime wide reciever est. Cap hit 25M
4. Sign a CB off the market Byron Jones, Jamal Dean, Peters, 15-18M
5. Another Offensive lineman with OT/OG versatility 12-15M
6. ILB upgrade to hold the fort until Beavers, McFadden are ready 8M
NYG also will be 179M under the cap in 2024. They are going to structure contracts accordingly. There is a ton of flexibility if they so choose to utilize it.
Go BPA in the draft at the remaining higher need positions.
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you're awfully defensive, and off on the wrong tangent.
I am defensive. There was a lot nonsense on the site this year. I get that when we are losing. We had a season none of us expected and we watched a kid that had a really tough stretch, finally do well. It was great story and it was the same ole' thing here. Meh.
Sorry, if I am off on tangent but this season for that kid should be celebrated. I bristle that some take every opportunity to ding him here. It seems small at times.
None that is directed at you Jon, but the board in general. I have enormous respect for both your contributions to BBI and your football acumen. I have diverged from your position on Jones that we previously agreed on. I saw improvements this year that you did not. Nothing personal.
I think Jones clearly did all that was asked of him, and perhaps he even surprised Schoen and Daboll to an extent.
He has to take the next in development and start beating better teams, playoff teams, top of heap teams. This will require more of Jones, specifically in the vertical passing game. He will need more ammo around him to achieve it, for sure, but he still has things to demonstrate on gameday, in games exactly like last Saturday night at Philly.
Where you and diverge is you're ready to proclaim and pay him. There's more to be seen and you can bet your arse Daboll knows it. I lean more towards the tag, but they might need to do a 3 year contract in order to ease the cap hits while they continue to build and sort this out.
Probably going to see 20+ new faces in Sept, and probably that many new again in 2024.
Judge his season as whole.
9-7-1
Won his first playoff game
Lost to the number 1 seed.
He was pressured on 26.6 percent of his drop backs. His
accuracy was number one in the entire NFL at over 81%. He was 4th in the least bad throws. Red Zone efficiency we know was 8th. YAC was near the bottom. WRs were bottom of the league and the OL was average at best.
Jones deserves the contract he going to get.
This is an ascending player.
Advanced passing stats - ( New Window )
Whole body of work relative to the talent level was outstanding.
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The Philly football world from time-to-time wants to drag that guy down, but he's excellent at this.
The decision to buy Hurts in the second round as a hedge against Wentz not living up to his contract is a great case study that you should always be looking for the next QB.
Always.
So very true.