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NFT: BBI Car Experts-Brake Pad Replacements

Essex : 1/24/2023 11:22 am
I know nothing about cars and my dealer is telling me that to get the brake pads replaced I need to remove the rotor. He is charging me like 450 an axle so like 900 bucks which seems outrageous when others are charging about 250 (like Pep Boys). Given that this is the brakes, I don't want to mess around, but I also don't want to get fleeced. Any advice? Thanks in advance.
Dealers will not replace just pads anymore  
BigBlue7 : 1/24/2023 11:25 am : link
and they do not machine rotors.

For warranty purposes, dealers will replaces the rotors when they replace breaks.
RE: Dealers will not replace just pads anymore  
Essex : 1/24/2023 11:26 am : link
In comment 16011826 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
and they do not machine rotors.

For warranty purposes, dealers will replaces the rotors when they replace breaks.

The local shop said my rotors are fine, but my pads are thin and should be replaced.
RE: RE: Dealers will not replace just pads anymore  
BigBlue7 : 1/24/2023 11:27 am : link
In comment 16011831 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 16011826 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:


and they do not machine rotors.

For warranty purposes, dealers will replaces the rotors when they replace breaks.


The local shop said my rotors are fine, but my pads are thin and should be replaced.


And that is likely the case and you're fine just replacing the pads.

Dealers simply won't just replace pads. It's a package deal for them
RE: RE: RE: Dealers will not replace just pads anymore  
Essex : 1/24/2023 11:30 am : link
In comment 16011836 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 16011831 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 16011826 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:


and they do not machine rotors.

For warranty purposes, dealers will replaces the rotors when they replace breaks.


The local shop said my rotors are fine, but my pads are thin and should be replaced.



And that is likely the case and you're fine just replacing the pads.

Dealers simply won't just replace pads. It's a package deal for them

Thanks the dealer guy was just scaring me saying that if they don't replace the rotors my car will shake at high speeds on the highway. I don't know the first thin about cars and these guys see a sucker from a mile away. But those guys always try to upsell me and I can never really tell when it is legitimate or not.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Dealers will not replace just pads anymore  
Costy16 : 1/24/2023 11:39 am : link
In comment 16011841 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 16011836 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:


In comment 16011831 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 16011826 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:


and they do not machine rotors.

For warranty purposes, dealers will replaces the rotors when they replace breaks.


The local shop said my rotors are fine, but my pads are thin and should be replaced.



And that is likely the case and you're fine just replacing the pads.

Dealers simply won't just replace pads. It's a package deal for them


Thanks the dealer guy was just scaring me saying that if they don't replace the rotors my car will shake at high speeds on the highway. I don't know the first thin about cars and these guys see a sucker from a mile away. But those guys always try to upsell me and I can never really tell when it is legitimate or not.


I just took my car for an oil change on Friday. A guy I used to work with has a shop at his house and he has done great work on our family vehicles and saved me a lot of money.

My front end also has had slight shake when I brake, I got new tires about 3 months ago and thought it needed an alignment. He took the front wheels off and found small grooves and hot spots on my rotors. Your front end will shake, especially when you brake, if there are issues with the rotors.
No, I have no issues with the rotors  
Essex : 1/24/2023 11:42 am : link
no shakes. I just checked at last oil change and he showed me that they were getting thin, but now they had not touched the rotors.
But does it make sense to just do it all now  
Essex : 1/24/2023 11:42 am : link
will the rotors go later? I have no idea.
RE: But does it make sense to just do it all now  
Johnny5 : 1/24/2023 11:52 am : link
In comment 16011866 Essex said:
Quote:
will the rotors go later? I have no idea.

I just went through this with both of my daughter's cars. I try to get 3 opinions and then decide. We had the same thing, one person claiming all 4 brakes needed to be done on older daughters' car, plus the rotors. I looked at it and I could see there was still pad left. The other 2 said just needed front and the rotors were fine. They said I should do the front and then the rear in the next 10k miles. I picked one of the latter two that I felt most comfortable with. Car has been fine.
last few years all my brake pad replacements  
TJ : 1/24/2023 11:52 am : link
the service location has insisted they must replace rotors too. i can remember when you only replaced rotors if you were negligent and allowed metal-on-metal contact to the rotors because you let the pads go too long.

Either rotors have changed radically and no longer last any longer than pads do or this is just a way for auto service companies to squeeze more profit from brake jobs.

Theoiretiucally I could do a brake pad replacement myself but I haven't done that kind of DYI car repair in 30 years so that's probably out. I pay for the new rotors and figure i'll never get the straight answer.
The rotors will go eventually...  
Chris in Philly : 1/24/2023 12:00 pm : link
but they should last a lot longer than a set of brake pads...
My friend was a master mechanic for GM  
Tom from LI : 1/24/2023 12:14 pm : link
he used to tell me as long as you are not metal on metal just replace the pads.

It's truly not that difficult to do yourself. I used to do them all the time. You need a jack, lug wrench and a c-clamp. I got it down to 15 minutes per tire with jacking, taking the tire off, replacing the pads and putting the tire back on.

When you go to the dealership or most mechanics they replace everything. Even replacing the rotors are not a difficult task.

The machine they used to cut the rotors is expensive to own and maintain. That is why mechanics always wanted to cut your rotors regardless if they needed it. To pay for the tool and make money on every cut. Then eventually they would cut the rotor so thin it would need replacement anyway.

Unless you are willing to learn to do it yourself, then you are at their mercy.


Call this guy  
DC Gmen Fan : 1/24/2023 12:38 pm : link
Why are you going to  
pjcas18 : 1/24/2023 12:47 pm : link
a dealer for something like this? If it's not a warranty fix I cannot imagine there is a good reason to go to a dealer.

I brought one of my other cars to the dealership for maintenance because it was with a recall fix and the service manager came out to talk to me and said (no shit) "if this was my car and I had kids I wouldn't take them in this vehicle, it's unsafe". I laughed in his face and then realized he was serious. This was in 2008 and it was a 5 year old Ford Explorer with 100k miles on it.

he even suggested because of the age and condition of the vehicle I should consider trading it in and just buying a new one.

I asked for an itemized list of what was wrong, and begrudgingly they gave it to me. Around $7500 worth of repairs.

I brought it to my mechanic and he looked at the list and said nothing on there needed to be done to my vehicle - at least not at that time. He said a serpentine belt needed to be replaced for a few hundred dollars with labor.

Anyway, this is obviously my anecdotal experience, but stuff like that has happened many times over the years when dealing with dealerships vs mechanics.

I do my own brakes on my little sportscar  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/24/2023 12:52 pm : link
Rotors do not have to be removed to do the brakes, if that is what he said, don't use him for stuff. Its a lie.

If he meant rotors should be changed at the same time as your pads, that's also incorrect but not as bad. Your manufacturer should have standards for how thin the rotors are when they need to be changed, Chevy prints it on the casting, for example. If you want to be sure, ask the guy if he measured the thickness of the rotors.

Modern cars should have pad wear sensors. On my car, its a wire embedded in the pad. When the wire makes contact with the rotor it sets the light off. Check to see if your car has these, and if it does and the light is not on, get a second opinion.

I feel like less ethical mechanics make a lot of money off brakes because its an easy job and drivers understand how important it is. There is an amazing amount of car info on the internet, I do a lot of jobs just watching youtube videos. Worth a try to read up before you head to a mechanic.

Dealers make their $ on repair work  
dannysection 313 : 1/24/2023 1:01 pm : link
Not sales, that's why they give you free maintenance when you first buy a car.

I did a 30K tune-up that was part of my original warranty. The service department (I own an Audi, so high end) said I needed 4 new tires and an alignment...

Cost? $2,000.00...$1200 for the tires, $800.00 for the alignment ("only Audi can calibrate correctly" yada, yada, yada).

Brought it to my local guy (my wife taught his kids, he'd never rip us off)...tires $1100.00, alignment $80.00 or about $800.00 less.

Never trust the dealer...
RE: Why are you going to  
pjcas18 : 1/24/2023 1:03 pm : link
In comment 16012050 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
a dealer for something like this? If it's not a warranty fix I cannot imagine there is a good reason to go to a dealer.

I brought one of my other cars to the dealership for maintenance because it was with a recall fix and the service manager came out to talk to me and said (no shit) "if this was my car and I had kids I wouldn't take them in this vehicle, it's unsafe". I laughed in his face and then realized he was serious. This was in 2008 and it was a 5 year old Ford Explorer with 100k miles on it.

he even suggested because of the age and condition of the vehicle I should consider trading it in and just buying a new one.

I asked for an itemized list of what was wrong, and begrudgingly they gave it to me. Around $7500 worth of repairs.

I brought it to my mechanic and he looked at the list and said nothing on there needed to be done to my vehicle - at least not at that time. He said a serpentine belt needed to be replaced for a few hundred dollars with labor.

Anyway, this is obviously my anecdotal experience, but stuff like that has happened many times over the years when dealing with dealerships vs mechanics.


and to follow this up, I did nothing on the list other than the serpentine belt and nothing happened. I had the vehicle another three years, up to almost 135,000 miles which 8 years and 135k on a Ford Explorer is pretty average.
RE: My friend was a master mechanic for GM  
Essex : 1/24/2023 1:30 pm : link
In comment 16011957 Tom from LI said:
Quote:

The machine they used to cut the rotors is expensive to own and maintain. That is why mechanics always wanted to cut your rotors regardless if they needed it. To pay for the tool and make money on every cut. Then eventually they would cut the rotor so thin it would need replacement anyway.

Unless you are willing to learn to do it yourself, then you are at their mercy.


This is exactly what he told me. He needs to cut the rotors to replace the brake pad and he said every Honda (I have a Honda CRV) car needs to do that because of the way the brake pads fit.
Since you know nothing  
kcgiants : 1/24/2023 1:41 pm : link
about cars I assume you also won't know how to change the brakes or rotors yourself.
I have been changing my brakes and rotors for the last 30 years.
If you hear a scraping sound when you apply your brakes then you'll need to change your brakes pads as the brake pad has worn down to the sensor/scrapper of the brake pad. So you should replace them asap before it scraps up or put grooves on the rotor.
For disc brakes which most cars these days have, only one pad has the scrapper on each set of pads. A set of pads are 4 pads, two for each wheel, 4 for the front axle and 4 for the rear axle. You change the pads as sets. The front pads set are changed like 3 to 4 times before you need to change the back pads as the front brakes wear out faster.
Normally, you don't need to change the rotor especially if it's a new car or under 10 years old. If you don't change the brake pads when you start hearing the sensor and the pads wear down to the metal and it starts to scrap the rotor then that is when you'll need to change the rotor or have it turned (resurfaced) but if you change it when it first starts to scrap you'll be ok with just changing the pads.
Now if you apply the brakes and you feel the brake pedal vibrate it means your rotor/rotors are warped. Rotors get warped by heat and can not get unwrapped and should be changed and not turned/resurfaced the rotor. And should be changed in pairs.
I just changed my wife's car front rotors last month as they vibrated when I applied the brakes. She has a 2012 Honda Civic and the set of OEM rotors costs me $230 including tax from the dealer. I didn't change the pads as they were still good but the OEM pads would have costed about $70. So your dealer charging you $450/axle is about right YMMV($230 + 70 + 150 labor). But if you really don't need the rotor changed skip it and only do the brakes pads. If the brake pedal don't vibrate and if the rotor is not less than 10.5mm thick then it's ok and skip the rotor change.
Good Luck


Rotors are a wear item  
MattinKY : 1/24/2023 1:48 pm : link
Depending on the quality of the rotor and the pad composition, it will wear from the pads and the braking style. Think grooves in a record.

Frequent short stops decrease not only the pad life, but also the life of the rotor as well as the nearby bearings.
Hard stops equal heat. Heat and dirt are enemies to all autoparts.


A lot of heat will warp the rotors, warped rotors at best accelerate pad wear by dragging while they are supposed to be released. Pad slaps are not even remotely proper maintenance.

Rotors need to be cut and very few places do this any more. New rotors need to be cut. They should also have the grooves left by the cutter removed. See below for what a rotor should look like. Again, think grooves in a record. With any semimetallic brake pad the pieces of metal will follow the grooves and squeak and/or squeal. Ceramic pads do not have that issue, but they are more likely to overheat quickly.

If you don't have the ability to do the complete job find your local shade tree mechanic and pay him to do it right. Very few dealers will do a correct brake job, forget pep boys and the like as well.

The only thing between you and injury or death is your brakes and tires. Take care of both to the best of your ability.


It amazes me to see people drop 2K on a TV then act like you're asking for an organ when it comes to car maintenance. That's why I don't work on cars for money anymore.


I always replace my own....  
rnargi : 1/24/2023 1:52 pm : link
I haven't had someone do a break job for me since..well...ever. I've always done it myself.

Brake replacement is a notorious ripoff.  
redwhiteandbigblue : 1/24/2023 2:19 pm : link
First off, are your brakes grinding? If not, your calipers, which are the most expensive part of your brakes, should be fine. Next, if there is no rumbling or screeching(and even if there was), rotors can be machined (cut) for half the price of getting new ones. Many shops will BS you saying rotors are too far gone to machine. Most of the time that is BS. Ask the mechanic to take you into the repair bay and show you with calipers their thickness and match it up with ddealer specs. They usually hem and haw and say well, we can machine them but cannot guarantee them. Fine. Lastly, if the car is used and you own it, go to Midas and have it done. Brake pads will be guaranteed for the life of the car so as long as you don't freeze the calipers and run down the rotors, you just bring it in every few years for brake pads.
RE: Dealers make their $ on repair work  
Costy16 : 1/24/2023 2:29 pm : link
In comment 16012083 dannysection 313 said:
Quote:
Not sales, that's why they give you free maintenance when you first buy a car.

I did a 30K tune-up that was part of my original warranty. The service department (I own an Audi, so high end) said I needed 4 new tires and an alignment...

Cost? $2,000.00...$1200 for the tires, $800.00 for the alignment ("only Audi can calibrate correctly" yada, yada, yada).

Brought it to my local guy (my wife taught his kids, he'd never rip us off)...tires $1100.00, alignment $80.00 or about $800.00 less.

Never trust the dealer...


One time many years ago I made the foolish mistake of bringing my car (a Chevy Malibu at the time) to a dealership for a state inspection. They come back and tell me my rack and pinion is leaking and will need a whole steering realignment it will be $780 to fix.

While there, I called the guy who does my car maintenance, and told me to get out of there ASAP. So I took it to a Jiffy Lube, it passed easily. I brought it to my mechanic's house a week later, and he said there was not a things wrong with it.
RE: Dealers make their $ on repair work  
kcgiants : 1/24/2023 2:55 pm : link
In comment 16012083 dannysection 313 said:
Quote:
Not sales, that's why they give you free maintenance when you first buy a car.

I did a 30K tune-up that was part of my original warranty. The service department (I own an Audi, so high end) said I needed 4 new tires and an alignment...

Cost? $2,000.00...$1200 for the tires, $800.00 for the alignment ("only Audi can calibrate correctly" yada, yada, yada).

Brought it to my local guy (my wife taught his kids, he'd never rip us off)...tires $1100.00, alignment $80.00 or about $800.00 less.

Never trust the dealer...

I only buy tires at Costco. Bought a set of 4 Michaelins a year ago and just recently, I side swiped into a curb and punctured the side of the tire. Brought it back to Costco and it was under roadside warranty which is included in the cost of the tire. I got a brand new replacement since it was unrepairable. They measure tire wear and charge accordingly which came out to be $40 for a $150 tire.
Here's the point  
D HOS : 1/24/2023 3:19 pm : link
Brakes are easy. I've been doing them myself since I was a teenager. The point is, it's not a complicated nor expensive job. Certainly doesn't require dealership.

You should only be replacing rotors when they are damaged or are wearing out. Which is "eventually" but they do last a really long time under normal conditions. Most people sell their aging cars before having to replace rotors.

Generally you can replace the pads, inspect the seals, lines, etc, do the whole brake job without taking the rotors off the vehicle.

One inexpensive upgrade for most cars is to replace your stock rotors with performance drilled and slotted rotors. This gives better brake performance, especially on wet roads. Also improves heat dissipation which helps your brake pads last longer and tends to mitigate possible brake damage due to heat. The only downside is, they can wear out sooner than stock (solid) rotors, but they are not expensive and they still will last a very long time, possibly longer than you keep the car.

Best to find an honest and skilled local mechanic (or two) and use that shop for brakes and whatever else you need. Dealers are only for recalls and warranty service, and even then some local shops may offer that.
Agree on brake deception  
PA Aggie : 1/24/2023 10:27 pm : link
Went to a Ford dealer where I had a bought a used pickup a month previous to look at one shaky front wheel. Mechanic said the entire thing (rotor/caliper/etc is corroded and if I drive it, I will likely crash. $1200 to replace (this was 15 yrs ago) and should he start the work now?

I said 'no, I will pick it up.' He said I may not survive the drive.

Took it to a recommended small garage. Guy called me later and said it is done, and he said six ninety five was the charge. I said, 'well that's about half of what I was going to get charged.' He said, 'no, $6.95. It was a rusted cotter pin.' I drove it for another 10 years with no issue.

Dealers suck. Network to find the right 'guy'. They are out there, it just takes some looking.
RE: Agree on brake deception  
D HOS : 1/25/2023 10:14 am : link
In comment 16012967 PA Aggie said:
Quote:
Went to a Ford dealer where I had a bought a used pickup a month previous to look at one shaky front wheel. Mechanic said the entire thing (rotor/caliper/etc is corroded and if I drive it, I will likely crash. $1200 to replace (this was 15 yrs ago) and should he start the work now?

I said 'no, I will pick it up.' He said I may not survive the drive.

Took it to a recommended small garage. Guy called me later and said it is done, and he said six ninety five was the charge. I said, 'well that's about half of what I was going to get charged.' He said, 'no, $6.95. It was a rusted cotter pin.' I drove it for another 10 years with no issue.

Dealers suck. Network to find the right 'guy'. They are out there, it just takes some looking.


The one time I didn't do my own brakes, I took it to Just Brakes for a "$99 pad replacement special", and they did me the same way. The manager said, with my car disassembled on the lift, it needed expensive repairs and they wouldn't let me have my car back unless I paid - "it isn't safe to drive". I walked back into the shop, took a look at what the mechanic was claiming, disagreed with their assessment, but really I had no choice at that point, they couldn't put it back together with the old worn pads and they wouldn't budge on having to rebuild all four calipers completely. I paid but filed that under a "never go to a brake place" lesson.
My advice for anyone..  
Racer : 1/26/2023 1:17 pm : link
..that takes their car in for service and is told to replace rotors would be to ask "Did you mike them? How much rotor is there?". Eye test is lazy except in extreme cases. They should be putting a micrometer on the disc to establish precisely how much wear the rotors have experienced rather than the routine eyeball of the outer edge for the 'lip' where the pads don't make contact. There's a factory spec that can be researched so you can make an informed decision on keep/replace.

You want me to do brakes? I've got a 30y old Mustang convertible that needs a tune up, has a failed rear quarter window motor, and has a stack of interior parts stacked next to it for conversion of the interior from grey to black. Also have a 20y old Lexus with a blown subwoofer, broken cupholder and a leaky valve cover gasket (on the hard to get to side). You home mechanics are taskmasters.
I will usually replace the rotors every other pad replacement  
AnnapolisMike : 1/26/2023 5:33 pm : link
Your right there and replacing the rotors is cheap and takes about 5 extra minutes.
You likely don't need your rotors replaced.  
NYG07 : 1/26/2023 5:44 pm : link
I change my own brake pads and it is super easy to do. Costs me about $30 instead of $250. Even if the rotors are warped you can get them cut rather than replacing them.

You dont need to pay a dealer to change your brake pads...  
DefenseWins : 1/26/2023 5:47 pm : link
the whole thing is ridiculous.
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