Ton of rumors and conversations out there.
*Knicks dropped the ball on Cam to Lakers and Hachimura deal should have been Cam. The market is drying up and a second might be a dream.
*Quickley is getting play and seems to be a hot commodity I don't want the Knicks to move him. Latest rumor is to the suns they are desperate for a PG and are rumored on VanVleet and Rozier
*Nothing but crickets on Rose and Fournier 30 million in cap for cheerleaders and extra coaches.
Honestly IMO the Knicks are going to sit on their collective hands through the deadline.
This team roster and rotation is a mess currently and needs immediate change.
Is Rose going to sleep through the Deadline?
The athletic - (
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Defense is always plus but guards and small forwards have to average 25+ points per 48 minutes and preferably 30 points per 48.
Grimes would have fit like a glove with Ewing-Oakley Knicks but today he just does not score enough.
Given that Brunson, RJ and Randle can score but not at a Durant, Luca, Mitchell level, they need a big man who can score and score from 3 point land.
That's the only way this team, with this core becomes a contender. Either that or you have to rip it all up again (which would be bad imo)
You cant have a scorer at every position, thats not how it works, Grimes is actually a perfect fit next to other scorers..
can't wait to see what unqualified exec they bring in next.
Allan Houston?
Same with anyone else other than Brunson..Grimes and Quick in the right deal..
It would be bold but I honestly think it would be a prudent move at this point. At some point you need to find out what you have in Toppin. If it doesn’t work out and you dip into the lottery the so be it.
Are there any potential teams for Randle at this point?
It’s not all doom for the Knicks but they are just in a really shitty roster situation of no man’s land.
But meanwhile, maybe he's hesitant because he usually gets taken to the cleaners on his trades.
The whole Cam thing is enough for me.It's not like this guy was proving to be just another goofball with athletic ability.You could see the improvement as he got more playing time.But we have a coach here who's delusional
I'm fine with that
Every year its well we are set up to add some pieces..
After that 1st year, it was ok we got cap space lets add to a 4th seed team, instead they sign everyone back to manageable contracts and add Kemba and Ofurnie still look for a star..
after the 2nd year it was ok lets get rid of those contracts bring in Brunson, great, but you are still holding onto draft picks and flexibiloty rather than taking the big swing..
Now this year you still sit on your hands..You have yo make a move to at least show the fans this is what we built, lets see what happens..But for the Knicks its still hey we got draft picks and flexibiloty..
Fricken do something..Rant over
Defense is always plus but guards and small forwards have to average 25+ points per 48 minutes and preferably 30 points per 48.
Grimes would have fit like a glove with Ewing-Oakley Knicks but today he just does not score enough.
Given that Brunson, RJ and Randle can score but not at a Durant, Luca, Mitchell level, they need a big man who can score and score from 3 point land.
That's the only way this team, with this core becomes a contender. Either that or you have to rip it all up again (which would be bad imo)
In the draft, they should be able to get one of the top bigs after Wembanyana — but the top bigs aren't the top players in the draft. Some mock drafts have them taking wings, some taking bigs.
I don't know whether they have enough draft capital to trade up, or if they'd find a trade partner, or if there's anyone worth trading up for.
Or, maybe they fall apart the rest of the way, land in the lottery and get lucky.
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Very different than in the past.
Defense is always plus but guards and small forwards have to average 25+ points per 48 minutes and preferably 30 points per 48.
Grimes would have fit like a glove with Ewing-Oakley Knicks but today he just does not score enough.
Given that Brunson, RJ and Randle can score but not at a Durant, Luca, Mitchell level, they need a big man who can score and score from 3 point land.
That's the only way this team, with this core becomes a contender. Either that or you have to rip it all up again (which would be bad imo)
You cant have a scorer at every position, thats not how it works, Grimes is actually a perfect fit next to other scorers..
You can't have a shooting guard who averages ten points a game in today's NBA.
Every year its well we are set up to add some pieces..
After that 1st year, it was ok we got cap space lets add to a 4th seed team, instead they sign everyone back to manageable contracts and add Kemba and Ofurnie still look for a star..
after the 2nd year it was ok lets get rid of those contracts bring in Brunson, great, but you are still holding onto draft picks and flexibiloty rather than taking the big swing..
Now this year you still sit on your hands..You have yo make a move to at least show the fans this is what we built, lets see what happens..But for the Knicks its still hey we got draft picks and flexibiloty..
Fricken do something..Rant over
I don't necessarily have an issue with him having a ton of patience, but to me the bigger problem is that his plan isn't working. Seems like the plan was to be "good" while also accumulating assets for trades. Here we are in year 3 and they're just not very good. I get it that they're basically league average on defense and good on offense (top 5!) - but we all know what happens to the offense in the 4th quarter. And it's not translating to enough wins.
And he hired the wrong coach.
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In comment 16012152 Vanzetti said:
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Very different than in the past.
Defense is always plus but guards and small forwards have to average 25+ points per 48 minutes and preferably 30 points per 48.
Grimes would have fit like a glove with Ewing-Oakley Knicks but today he just does not score enough.
Given that Brunson, RJ and Randle can score but not at a Durant, Luca, Mitchell level, they need a big man who can score and score from 3 point land.
That's the only way this team, with this core becomes a contender. Either that or you have to rip it all up again (which would be bad imo)
You cant have a scorer at every position, thats not how it works, Grimes is actually a perfect fit next to other scorers..
You can't have a shooting guard who averages ten points a game in today's NBA.
tell that to the Bucks, Nuggets, Nets, Clips, etc.
Your point is reductive and simply wrong.
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In comment 16012152 Vanzetti said:
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Very different than in the past.
Defense is always plus but guards and small forwards have to average 25+ points per 48 minutes and preferably 30 points per 48.
Grimes would have fit like a glove with Ewing-Oakley Knicks but today he just does not score enough.
Given that Brunson, RJ and Randle can score but not at a Durant, Luca, Mitchell level, they need a big man who can score and score from 3 point land.
That's the only way this team, with this core becomes a contender. Either that or you have to rip it all up again (which would be bad imo)
You cant have a scorer at every position, thats not how it works, Grimes is actually a perfect fit next to other scorers..
You can't have a shooting guard who averages ten points a game in today's NBA.
You can when your PG averages 22, your SF who hlaverages 20 and a PF who averages 25..No matter who you put there, unless you move Brunson, Rj or Randle, they are not going to average a lot of points..
He is a shooter and defender, thats what you need next to the guys they have..
If they add a star, its not to replace Grimes
If he continues to play like this then the contract is a bargain. But it’s hard to find an on court fit with a contender. Memphis/ PHX/ Miami/ Dallas are really the only teams I could see a potential fit but it would be difficult construct a trade that helps the Knicks.
Is there a monster Lakers trade possible? Doubtful.
Am I missing anyone? I just don’t see or understand the long term strategy for this roster.
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as the cap goes up (supposedly another spike is coming unless everyone agrees for more gradual increases), his contract starts to look really good given his production.
If he continues to play like this then the contract is a bargain. But it’s hard to find an on court fit with a contender. Memphis/ PHX/ Miami/ Dallas are really the only teams I could see a potential fit but it would be difficult construct a trade that helps the Knicks.
Is there a monster Lakers trade possible? Doubtful.
Am I missing anyone? I just don’t see or understand the long term strategy for this roster.
I think Rj will be the centerpiece of a star trade..
I will say as a positive, i thoight going into the season they needed 2 stars, i think at this point they only need 1 if the player going out is Rj
We talk about defense but our defense rating is 113 for 14th in the league with Grimes this year.
And it was 110 last year for 10th when he didn't get minutes.
He can not create his own shot he is reliant on the kick or being hit on the cut.
His handle is not NBA ready.(summer league ready)
So yes in this league you can not have enough scorers because when you get to the playoffs and the crunch at the end of the season you need to have a 4th and even 5th option to create a shot.
Thibs talks defense first but it's talk, IQ should be the 2 guard today and he could give you 14-18 points a night and take pressure off Brunson to bring the ball up and move the offense in spots.
I like Grimes a lot but he is not NBA starter ready yet and needs to work on his game to be a starting 2 in this league. This is why he was drafted in the back half of the first round it was not a steal it was where he should have been drafted like IQ but I IQ has grinded for 3 years to get where he is now
We talk about defense but our defense rating is 113 for 14th in the league with Grimes this year.
And it was 110 last year for 10th when he didn't get minutes.
He can not create his own shot he is reliant on the kick or being hit on the cut.
His handle is not NBA ready.(summer league ready)
So yes in this league you can not have enough scorers because when you get to the playoffs and the crunch at the end of the season you need to have a 4th and even 5th option to create a shot.
Thibs talks defense first but it's talk, IQ should be the 2 guard today and he could give you 14-18 points a night and take pressure off Brunson to bring the ball up and move the offense in spots.
I like Grimes a lot but he is not NBA starter ready yet and needs to work on his game to be a starting 2 in this league. This is why he was drafted in the back half of the first round it was not a steal it was where he should have been drafted like IQ but I IQ has grinded for 3 years to get where he is now
Name the team that has 4 or 5 scorers, not shooters, 4 or 5 scorers, guys who need the ball to create their own shot and score..
No great team cna function with 4 or 5 scorers
Why? What does that mean?
My kingdom for Kenny Atkinson. Thibs is a good coach, but isn’t a great fit for the roster they have now. As for the roster, I’m not sure what changes with a trade that doesn’t fix the problem of two of their top scorers simply not being consistent or efficient enough.
Why not at this point? It's not like their stockpile of assets would be gone for a subsequent trade if they do this. They missed the boat on Mitchell whom they should have ponied up for IMO. This deal could be a pre-cursor to another.
OG essentially becomes a better fitting SF in Thibs system and Rj+ Hopefully would get us a superstar.
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In comment 16012264 Enzo said:
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as the cap goes up (supposedly another spike is coming unless everyone agrees for more gradual increases), his contract starts to look really good given his production.
If he continues to play like this then the contract is a bargain. But it’s hard to find an on court fit with a contender. Memphis/ PHX/ Miami/ Dallas are really the only teams I could see a potential fit but it would be difficult construct a trade that helps the Knicks.
Is there a monster Lakers trade possible? Doubtful.
Am I missing anyone? I just don’t see or understand the long term strategy for this roster.
I think Rj will be the centerpiece of a star trade..
I will say as a positive, i thoight going into the season they needed 2 stars, i think at this point they only need 1 if the player going out is Rj
Your 4 year dream of RJ being traded is not going to happen.
RJ, Randle and Brunson will probably live out their contracts here.
Knicks value RJ and the fact that he is 22 and still improving most don't hit prime until 26 in time for his 3rd contract.
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In comment 16012336 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16012264 Enzo said:
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as the cap goes up (supposedly another spike is coming unless everyone agrees for more gradual increases), his contract starts to look really good given his production.
If he continues to play like this then the contract is a bargain. But it’s hard to find an on court fit with a contender. Memphis/ PHX/ Miami/ Dallas are really the only teams I could see a potential fit but it would be difficult construct a trade that helps the Knicks.
Is there a monster Lakers trade possible? Doubtful.
Am I missing anyone? I just don’t see or understand the long term strategy for this roster.
I think Rj will be the centerpiece of a star trade..
I will say as a positive, i thoight going into the season they needed 2 stars, i think at this point they only need 1 if the player going out is Rj
Your 4 year dream of RJ being traded is not going to happen.
RJ, Randle and Brunson will probably live out their contracts here.
Knicks value RJ and the fact that he is 22 and still improving most don't hit prime until 26 in time for his 3rd contract.
If the OG stuff is legit that means RJ could be on borrowed time. OG's a better fit for Thibs preferred style of play doesn't need the ball and could open up RJ being moved for another star.
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In comment 16012336 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16012264 Enzo said:
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as the cap goes up (supposedly another spike is coming unless everyone agrees for more gradual increases), his contract starts to look really good given his production.
If he continues to play like this then the contract is a bargain. But it’s hard to find an on court fit with a contender. Memphis/ PHX/ Miami/ Dallas are really the only teams I could see a potential fit but it would be difficult construct a trade that helps the Knicks.
Is there a monster Lakers trade possible? Doubtful.
Am I missing anyone? I just don’t see or understand the long term strategy for this roster.
I think Rj will be the centerpiece of a star trade..
I will say as a positive, i thoight going into the season they needed 2 stars, i think at this point they only need 1 if the player going out is Rj
Your 4 year dream of RJ being traded is not going to happen.
RJ, Randle and Brunson will probably live out their contracts here.
Knicks value RJ and the fact that he is 22 and still improving most don't hit prime until 26 in time for his 3rd contract.
Yes because i am giving him away, lol..
and if Brunson, Rj and Randle are here that means they didnt get a star
yup
So the very premise that he's going to get a free agent to sign here is flawed because the CBA all but guarantees that players are taking the money and staying with the team that drafted them/has the ability to give them the most money.
Rose has been too conservative, he wants to "win" every deal. I'd say that free agency signings have been particularly bad, but the team has definitely played better than expectations at almost every turn.
I am very against trading for OG Ananoby. He feels very much like a middle of the road, league average player. Those picks should be designated for a big player. Getting another "good enough" player isn't moving the needle for this team. They've been patient for this long, don't trade draft picks for a non-star.
Hate to give up iq
Maybe so...but I question how much better we'd be with no IQ or Grimes and DM in here instead. We'd probably be what, 8-9 games over?
Better yes. And we'd all be pumped watching DM light things up and we'd all have some hope for a postseason run, but we aren't making the semis. I hate going there because I do think it's unfair to kill a trade simply if it doesn't lead to a conf title, but it's probably the truth. And since the trade didn't happen, why not go there for piece of mind.
Cooked? 24.7 PER (3rd highest mark of his career), .207 WS/48 4th best mark. Did I miss an inside joke? Dame has been Dame.
So the very premise that he's going to get a free agent to sign here is flawed because the CBA all but guarantees that players are taking the money and staying with the team that drafted them/has the ability to give them the most money.
Rose has been too conservative, he wants to "win" every deal. I'd say that free agency signings have been particularly bad, but the team has definitely played better than expectations at almost every turn.
I am very against trading for OG Ananoby. He feels very much like a middle of the road, league average player. Those picks should be designated for a big player. Getting another "good enough" player isn't moving the needle for this team. They've been patient for this long, don't trade draft picks for a non-star.
OG Anunoby is Bullock on steriods. He is a GREAT fit for a Thibs team. He doesn't need the ball in his hands to score, he is efficient and he makes RJ expendable.
When of the big reasons we lose games if if the type of D we play doesn't work it results in a TON of open looks from 3. We play a collapse in the paint defense which is supposed to quickly close out on the 3 ball. It is not an easy defense to play without the right players to execute it. Anunoby in theory is a great fit for this style and much , much better than RJ in system fit with cutrent personell.
Possibly this is also a precursor to another move. If that is the case you can't just judge this move in a vacuum. If the follow up is something like RJ+ for a superstar then it is a very good move.
There was a report that two young players and a first round pick was the asking price, which is the basis for CP's proposal. Another report (I forgot who) indicated two unprotected firsts and less in the way of players.
where did you see this?
birth of his child
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What's his value now and can he bounce back or is he cooked?
where did you see this?
NBA radio said it was internal debate and they were comment that they need to move him sooner than later.
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In comment 16012612 larryflower37 said:
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What's his value now and can he bounce back or is he cooked?
where did you see this?
NBA radio said it was internal debate and they were comment that they need to move him sooner than later.
Ahh ok, Chris Haynes had a report that they were still trying to build around him..
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What's his value now and can he bounce back or is he cooked?
Cooked? 24.7 PER (3rd highest mark of his career), .207 WS/48 4th best mark. Did I miss an inside joke? Dame has been Dame.
Sorry it was sarcastic when he got hurt people said he was cooked and didn't want him.
I personally would love him on the Knicks
I dont want to trade him, but if you can get a player who is a fit like OG, that is a win and good management. The alternative is he leaves for nothing and I'm done with this front office if that happens.
I'm so with you on this. Won't be long before they're all given their walking papers.
The bar is incredibly low for the Knicks and people will try to defend him ( some act like IQ and Grimes are the picks of the century) but Leon Rose has been a failure here.
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Knicks have become a full-on bore with limited ceiling and it's hard to believe be too optimistic about Leon/Thibs changing that.
The bar is incredibly low for the Knicks and people will try to defend him ( some act like IQ and Grimes are the picks of the century) but Leon Rose has been a failure here.
Funny thing is 3 yeara ago we were begging juat for a winning season, if 3 yewrs ago we would all have signed up for a team fighting for the 6th seed with one of the youngest teams in the NBA..
I am starting to sour on Rose but he took over a team that was older and had a terrible culture..