Some here think 25, 30, 32 is reasonable for Jones. Others think 35-40 is reasonable. If it’s the former then I think it’s a hard case to say he turned down a reasonable offer. If it’s the later you might get more agreement.
not tagging one of them would be asinine. Money savings is fun until you win 2 or 3 games and then don’t nail the next QB pick. Even worse is in your scenario we would get comp picks instead of 1st rounders.
I think Schoen was sending messages to both camps in the PC
Sunday I woke up thinking DJ maaay be expendable...today Saquon is in my dog house... I cannot explain it I have defended both guys vehemently...
But the thought has crossed my mind that the 50mm or so in cap space they occupy can be spend to fill alot of holes
And truth be told...do we expect to improve next year that much???
I know ...its in the back of my mind
RE: I think Schoen was sending messages to both camps in the PC
Neither Daboll or Schoen picked either one of these guys and therefore have no allegiance what-so-ever to keep them. If they do, they will be judged by the successes/failure of these two as cornerstones of the franchise for the duration of their tenure in NY.
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
RE: I think Schoen was sending messages to both camps in the PC
It is defensible if you think Jones isn't the answer and the Giants are better served taking 2023 for a high draft pick.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
I think there's a better than average chance that we aren't replicating or improving on 2022 even if both Jones & Barkley return next year. It would be no surprise for only somewhere from 6 to 8 wins next year.
It is defensible if you think Jones isn't the answer and the Giants are better served taking 2023 for a high draft pick.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
I think there's a better than average chance that we aren't replicating or improving on 2022 even if both Jones & Barkley return next year. It would be no surprise for only somewhere from 6 to 8 wins next year.
to build up the lines, the D, add some skill players and draft a QB that can compliment a offense rather than be the GOAT.
I know this sounds crazy, but rather than commit $35 Million plus per year on Jones, use that money and the draft to drive up the overall talent of the team so a rookie QB can step in at some point in 2023 and thrive ala Purdy, etc.
Just spitballing. But if Jones is not the answer and Barkley is at the apex looking down; time to invest in other places.
to build up the lines, the D, add some skill players and draft a QB that can compliment a offense rather than be the GOAT.
I know this sounds crazy, but rather than commit $35 Million plus per year on Jones, use that money and the draft to drive up the overall talent of the team so a rookie QB can step in at some point in 2023 and thrive ala Purdy, etc.
Just spitballing. But if Jones is not the answer and Barkley is at the apex looking down; time to invest in other places.
I hope we do not over pay either player, it is critical for Joe and Brian to be the adults in the room if DJ wants to be a free agent because he wants to max out his financial opportunity I would franchise tag him and trade him. I really believe Brian Daboll will be one of the coaches in the league that can develop quarterbacks. Seqoan is not going to get the money he wants let him walk, I wouldn't even make a offer if he is looking for 16 mil per year. We have so many holes on this roster and now we can't overspend to keep these guys.
to build up the lines, the D, add some skill players and draft a QB that can compliment a offense rather than be the GOAT.
I know this sounds crazy, but rather than commit $35 Million plus per year on Jones, use that money and the draft to drive up the overall talent of the team so a rookie QB can step in at some point in 2023 and thrive ala Purdy, etc.
Just spitballing. But if Jones is not the answer and Barkley is at the apex looking down; time to invest in other places.
Great Idea! Then we can have another qb to complain about. In a new system.
Just too many variables and no guarantee they’ll get the #1 pick. How did the Jets tank job of 2020 go? 2nd pick for Zach Wilson.
They will keep building with Jones as they should. Hopefully the numbers aren’t too high so it doesn’t strap the team. When the opportunity arises to upgrade at QB I expect Schoen & Daboll to pounce, but it won’t be this year.
I think Barkley may be gone, but Jones will be back. Keep building.
on one of them in order to complete a transition deal to another team. That way you obtain some reasonable value.
I do love the drama in how posters above respond though.
BLASPHEMY! How could the NY Giants survive without extending DJ and SB!
If you're tagging one to trade, has to be Barkley. CMC showed there's trade value for a top RB. No other team is going to want DJ at $30+ million, the production isn't there.
If a GM did this and we pull a 5-12 record next year. What would you think would happen? You better have support of the owners to do that. Or you won’t be a GM too long. Whether it’s right or wrong in a long term rebuild.
If a GM did this and we pull a 5-12 record next year. What would you think would happen? You better have support of the owners to do that. Or you won’t be a GM too long. Whether it’s right or wrong in a long term rebuild.
Neither Daboll or Schoen picked either one of these guys and therefore have no allegiance what-so-ever to keep them. If they do, they will be judged by the successes/failure of these two as cornerstones of the franchise for the duration of their tenure in NY.
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
I don’t think that logic is sound. Why would any GMs time extend by not resigning a player? If Jones signs elsewhere and goes on to do good/great things elsewhere Schoen will get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Barkley but maybe to a lesser extent. Plus they still need to fill those spots and do so without any guarantees. If they let Jones walk and draft a dud at QB they will be out just as fast if not faster than having paid Jones. In the end Jones will be back whether by tag or extension. The FO has to improve the quality of the team otherwise out the door they go. The coach needs to improve the play or the same will happen. It’s a risk for them either way with any player but of course it’s most noticed at QB.
Neither Daboll or Schoen picked either one of these guys and therefore have no allegiance what-so-ever to keep them. If they do, they will be judged by the successes/failure of these two as cornerstones of the franchise for the duration of their tenure in NY.
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
I don’t think that logic is sound. Why would any GMs time extend by not resigning a player? If Jones signs elsewhere and goes on to do good/great things elsewhere Schoen will get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Barkley but maybe to a lesser extent. Plus they still need to fill those spots and do so without any guarantees. If they let Jones walk and draft a dud at QB they will be out just as fast if not faster than having paid Jones. In the end Jones will be back whether by tag or extension. The FO has to improve the quality of the team otherwise out the door they go. The coach needs to improve the play or the same will happen. It’s a risk for them either way with any player but of course it’s most noticed at QB.
If Schoen keeps Jones only because he fears he might excel elsewhere, we're screwed.
Neither Daboll or Schoen picked either one of these guys and therefore have no allegiance what-so-ever to keep them. If they do, they will be judged by the successes/failure of these two as cornerstones of the franchise for the duration of their tenure in NY.
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
I don’t think that logic is sound. Why would any GMs time extend by not resigning a player? If Jones signs elsewhere and goes on to do good/great things elsewhere Schoen will get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Barkley but maybe to a lesser extent. Plus they still need to fill those spots and do so without any guarantees. If they let Jones walk and draft a dud at QB they will be out just as fast if not faster than having paid Jones. In the end Jones will be back whether by tag or extension. The FO has to improve the quality of the team otherwise out the door they go. The coach needs to improve the play or the same will happen. It’s a risk for them either way with any player but of course it’s most noticed at QB.
If Schoen keeps Jones only because he fears he might excel elsewhere, we're screwed.
No doubt he cannot make this decision hastily....and he better have the sign off from ownership
To SB, we need the price to come down.
To SB, we need the price to come down.
^^
Sunday I woke up thinking DJ maaay be expendable...today Saquon is in my dog house... I cannot explain it I have defended both guys vehemently...
But the thought has crossed my mind that the 50mm or so in cap space they occupy can be spend to fill alot of holes
And truth be told...do we expect to improve next year that much???
I know ...its in the back of my mind
To SB, we need the price to come down.
Yep...I heard it loud and clear
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
To SB, we need the price to come down.
Yep, and they will be looking at Leo's contract, probably Adoree's as well.
To SB, we need the price to come down.
I think you are exactly right Jim.
Schoen clearly uses these press conferences to send subtle messages.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
I do love the drama in how posters above respond though.
BLASPHEMY! How could the NY Giants survive without extending DJ and SB!
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
I think there's a better than average chance that we aren't replicating or improving on 2022 even if both Jones & Barkley return next year. It would be no surprise for only somewhere from 6 to 8 wins next year.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
Sure it is. You can’t get more than a 3rd back in the comp pick structure so you are basically giving away both players for next to nothing.
Are you really going to go into next year without the two most important offensive players?
I really don’t see ownership saying, “Forget Jones and Barkley, it’s time to buy your Tyrod Taylor and Chuba Hubbard jerseys!”
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
I meant tanking, not taking, sorry.
Quote:
It is defensible if you think Jones isn't the answer and the Giants are better served taking 2023 for a high draft pick.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
I think there's a better than average chance that we aren't replicating or improving on 2022 even if both Jones & Barkley return next year. It would be no surprise for only somewhere from 6 to 8 wins next year.
This is what I think as well.
Quote:
It is defensible if you think Jones isn't the answer and the Giants are better served taking 2023 for a high draft pick.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
Sure it is. You can’t get more than a 3rd back in the comp pick structure so you are basically giving away both players for next to nothing.
Not sure which point you are arguing? But letting them go for nothing would be asinine. Tag and trade one at the worst.
I know this sounds crazy, but rather than commit $35 Million plus per year on Jones, use that money and the draft to drive up the overall talent of the team so a rookie QB can step in at some point in 2023 and thrive ala Purdy, etc.
Just spitballing. But if Jones is not the answer and Barkley is at the apex looking down; time to invest in other places.
I know this sounds crazy, but rather than commit $35 Million plus per year on Jones, use that money and the draft to drive up the overall talent of the team so a rookie QB can step in at some point in 2023 and thrive ala Purdy, etc.
Just spitballing. But if Jones is not the answer and Barkley is at the apex looking down; time to invest in other places.
that is kinda how I woke up today feeling....
we may not have Kafka and or Wink
I know this sounds crazy, but rather than commit $35 Million plus per year on Jones, use that money and the draft to drive up the overall talent of the team so a rookie QB can step in at some point in 2023 and thrive ala Purdy, etc.
Just spitballing. But if Jones is not the answer and Barkley is at the apex looking down; time to invest in other places.
Great Idea! Then we can have another qb to complain about. In a new system.
Let's get rid of Andrew Thomas while we're at it.
Quote:
In comment 16012257 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
It is defensible if you think Jones isn't the answer and the Giants are better served taking 2023 for a high draft pick.
It isn't defensible if you want to have a chance of replicating or improving on 2022, IMO.
Sure it is. You can’t get more than a 3rd back in the comp pick structure so you are basically giving away both players for next to nothing.
Not sure which point you are arguing? But letting them go for nothing would be asinine. Tag and trade one at the worst.
You gave a scenario where it was defensible, unless that was a typo.
They will keep building with Jones as they should. Hopefully the numbers aren’t too high so it doesn’t strap the team. When the opportunity arises to upgrade at QB I expect Schoen & Daboll to pounce, but it won’t be this year.
I think Barkley may be gone, but Jones will be back. Keep building.
I do love the drama in how posters above respond though.
BLASPHEMY! How could the NY Giants survive without extending DJ and SB!
If you're tagging one to trade, has to be Barkley. CMC showed there's trade value for a top RB. No other team is going to want DJ at $30+ million, the production isn't there.
good point...plus BBI would blow upppppp
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
I don’t think that logic is sound. Why would any GMs time extend by not resigning a player? If Jones signs elsewhere and goes on to do good/great things elsewhere Schoen will get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Barkley but maybe to a lesser extent. Plus they still need to fill those spots and do so without any guarantees. If they let Jones walk and draft a dud at QB they will be out just as fast if not faster than having paid Jones. In the end Jones will be back whether by tag or extension. The FO has to improve the quality of the team otherwise out the door they go. The coach needs to improve the play or the same will happen. It’s a risk for them either way with any player but of course it’s most noticed at QB.
Quote:
Neither Daboll or Schoen picked either one of these guys and therefore have no allegiance what-so-ever to keep them. If they do, they will be judged by the successes/failure of these two as cornerstones of the franchise for the duration of their tenure in NY.
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
I don’t think that logic is sound. Why would any GMs time extend by not resigning a player? If Jones signs elsewhere and goes on to do good/great things elsewhere Schoen will get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Barkley but maybe to a lesser extent. Plus they still need to fill those spots and do so without any guarantees. If they let Jones walk and draft a dud at QB they will be out just as fast if not faster than having paid Jones. In the end Jones will be back whether by tag or extension. The FO has to improve the quality of the team otherwise out the door they go. The coach needs to improve the play or the same will happen. It’s a risk for them either way with any player but of course it’s most noticed at QB.
If Schoen keeps Jones only because he fears he might excel elsewhere, we're screwed.
Quote:
In comment 16012244 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
Neither Daboll or Schoen picked either one of these guys and therefore have no allegiance what-so-ever to keep them. If they do, they will be judged by the successes/failure of these two as cornerstones of the franchise for the duration of their tenure in NY.
PLUS - if they pass on both (especially Jones) they restart the clock on their time here, and buy themselves some extra time to start over with who they think is the answer at the QB position. If they keep them, that time is shortened significantly.
AND - there precedent for it - Beane did the same thing in Buffalo ditched Tyrod Taylor (who had more success in Buffalo than DJ in NY) in favor of starting over with Josh Allen.
Of course I'm oversimplifying it - but there's a case to be made here for sure.
I don’t think that logic is sound. Why would any GMs time extend by not resigning a player? If Jones signs elsewhere and goes on to do good/great things elsewhere Schoen will get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Barkley but maybe to a lesser extent. Plus they still need to fill those spots and do so without any guarantees. If they let Jones walk and draft a dud at QB they will be out just as fast if not faster than having paid Jones. In the end Jones will be back whether by tag or extension. The FO has to improve the quality of the team otherwise out the door they go. The coach needs to improve the play or the same will happen. It’s a risk for them either way with any player but of course it’s most noticed at QB.
If Schoen keeps Jones only because he fears he might excel elsewhere, we're screwed.
No doubt he cannot make this decision hastily....and he better have the sign off from ownership