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Maybe Wink Martindale Out-Tricked Himself in Philadelphia

M.S. : 1/24/2023 1:48 pm

There is a sorta strange parallel between his last two games against Minny and the last two in Philly.

In the first game against Minny, Wink applied a lot of pressure against Cousins by way of blitzes and then totally — maybe to surprise the Vikings — reversed course and played it conservatively with a lot of double teams against Justin Jefferson. (Fortunately, Dexter Lawrence brought tremendous pressure seemingly all by himself in the playoff win.)

Wink seemed to follow the same strategy against the Eagles. In the last game of the regular season, he used a line-up of substitutes to blitz the holy hell out of Jalen Hurts and it really screwed up his timing. But was he trying to fool the Eagles in the playoffs by eschewing a heavy blitz strategy? Did he make a mistake and over-think that one? Maybe he should have just stayed with what worked last time.

I believe a lot of us fans are overthinking this.  
81_Great_Dane : 1/24/2023 1:50 pm : link
The Eagles really are that good. It wasn't a scheme thing. They're loaded, they're hungry and they play like a bullies. A different scheme wouldn't have made a lot of difference.
You're  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/24/2023 1:56 pm : link
overthinking this.

The difference was the Philly OL blocked our best players up front.

It's that simple.

Once again, you're underrating just how good the Eagles are up front. I think you're in denial.
M.S.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/24/2023 1:59 pm : link
is among a small group of Giants fans who think the big problem in the Giants-Eagles game was coaching. This despite the fact that the Eagles did the same thing in the playoff game as they did on the December 11th game.

He's say "I know the Eagles are more talented, but..."

No buts.
RE: You're  
GiantGrit : 1/24/2023 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16012199 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
overthinking this.

The difference was the Philly OL blocked our best players up front.

It's that simple.

Once again, you're underrating just how good the Eagles are up front. I think you're in denial.


It was crazy reading some people say "Dexter had a bad game". He got double teamed by 2 pro bowlers all night. The Eagles know we stink at LB and made those guys make plays.
Read Sy's review...  
edavisiii : 1/24/2023 2:01 pm : link
All of our Defensive Line got stoned. Dexter L, Leonard Williams, Ojalari and Thibodeaux all lost their one on ones. Bill Parcell's once said something to the effect, "I don't have a play for you're getting your ass kicked." The Giants got physically dominated. The Philly OLine was as good as advertised, they kicked our ass!
MS -- you are exhausting  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/24/2023 2:02 pm : link
you are limited to two threads per day
Coaching magic goes so far....  
George from PA : 1/24/2023 2:04 pm : link
Our only hope was the Eagles were sluggish


They weren't.....they came ready to play
RE: I believe a lot of us fans are overthinking this.  
M.S. : 1/24/2023 2:05 pm : link
In comment 16012180 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
The Eagles really are that good. It wasn't a scheme thing. They're loaded, they're hungry and they play like a bullies. A different scheme wouldn't have made a lot of difference.

Count me in as one who believes that there was nothing Wink could have done to change the outcome of that miserable Philly game. But I still think the question is a legitimate one: Why go away from a devil-may-care blitz strategy that even the Eagles admitted upset their apple cart in the last game of regular season? Did Wink believe he could throw a change-up in the playoffs?
I don't think the short week  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/24/2023 2:05 pm : link
did the Giants any favors. The Giants not converting on the first drive really hurt as well.

Keeping it close in the first if not ahead was a big key for me. The offense did not do its job either by both possessing the ball and scoring points which was critical throughout the year.

Just a bad day at the office against a really good team.
RE: Read Sy's review...  
M.S. : 1/24/2023 2:09 pm : link
In comment 16012218 edavisiii said:
Quote:
All of our Defensive Line got stoned. Dexter L, Leonard Williams, Ojalari and Thibodeaux all lost their one on ones. Bill Parcell's once said something to the effect, "I don't have a play for you're getting your ass kicked." The Giants got physically dominated. The Philly OLine was as good as advertised, they kicked our ass!

No doubt about that. The Giants got the shit kicked out of them on both sides of the LOS. It was a complete route.
The talent disparity does not explain 38-7  
Vanzetti : 1/24/2023 2:10 pm : link
The Eagles played a lot of teams with less talent than the Giants and they did not beat them by 50 points.

It was quite clear from the first snap that the Eagles were the more physical team. They cam to play. Giants did not play with aggression and physicality. It was also clear Giants D had no idea what was coming and that made them hesitant.

Wink prepared to stop the passing game and Hurts on the RPO and instead Eagles just ran simple screens all night with the TEs and receivers knocking the undersized Giant DBs on their asses.

Eagles would have dominated with Mike Glennon at QB. Hurts did nothing Hurts like the whole game except for two or three runs. He was clearly not 100%. But his team came to play. On short rest, Giants did not meet the physical challenge.
RE: MS -- you are exhausting  
geepeegee : 1/24/2023 2:10 pm : link
In comment 16012222 gidiefor said:
Quote:
you are limited to two threads per day


Assuming you're serious, why such a response to a reasonable set of questions that you (and I) disagree with? Well-reasoned debate from differing points of view is one of the things that has made BBI so excellent for so many years. I like having people like M.S., goterps, FMiC, and others around. Do I agree with everything they say? Not at all.
RE: M.S.  
section125 : 1/24/2023 2:17 pm : link
In comment 16012214 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
is among a small group of Giants fans who think the big problem in the Giants-Eagles game was coaching. This despite the fact that the Eagles did the same thing in the playoff game as they did on the December 11th game.

He's say "I know the Eagles are more talented, but..."

No buts.


Yeah, I did not think it was a well coached game, and yes I only watched the 1st quarter. Something was wrong right away and that was why I turned it off.
But obviously the Eagles are just a much more talented team across the board with few exceptions.

FWIW, I picked them to lose handily, IIRC. There is a serious quality gap between the teams.
RE: RE: MS -- you are exhausting  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/24/2023 2:21 pm : link
In comment 16012245 geepeegee said:
Quote:
In comment 16012222 gidiefor said:


Quote:


you are limited to two threads per day



Assuming you're serious, why such a response to a reasonable set of questions that you (and I) disagree with? Well-reasoned debate from differing points of view is one of the things that has made BBI so excellent for so many years. I like having people like M.S., goterps, FMiC, and others around. Do I agree with everything they say? Not at all.


it comes down to the sheer volume of nonsense in this case -- disagreeing is not the issue
RE: RE: Read Sy's review...  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/24/2023 2:27 pm : link
In comment 16012241 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16012218 edavisiii said:


Quote:


All of our Defensive Line got stoned. Dexter L, Leonard Williams, Ojalari and Thibodeaux all lost their one on ones. Bill Parcell's once said something to the effect, "I don't have a play for you're getting your ass kicked." The Giants got physically dominated. The Philly OLine was as good as advertised, they kicked our ass!


No doubt about that. The Giants got the shit kicked out of them on both sides of the LOS. It was a complete route.


It's because Jones is not as good as a combination of Burrow and Jesus no matter what this forum says.
whether it changes the outcome or not,  
Shirk130 : 1/24/2023 2:33 pm : link
it's still a legitimate question and topic for a message board. Some here are just so defensive and sensitive.
RE: whether it changes the outcome or not,  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/24/2023 2:36 pm : link
In comment 16012294 Shirk130 said:
Quote:
it's still a legitimate question and topic for a message board. Some here are just so defensive and sensitive.


Nope. M.S. has been transparent since the end of the game. "Giants should have been more competitive. Their coaching let them down."

He's posted this non-stop since Saturday.

When the other team is better across the board, at virtually every position, you lose unless something very weird happens.

The Giants got their butts kicked in on December 11th. They did so again last Saturday. There is no anomoly here.

I doubt M.S. even knows what the Wink's blitz rates was in the game.
RE: M.S.  
M.S. : 1/24/2023 2:40 pm : link
In comment 16012214 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
is among a small group of Giants fans who think the big problem in the Giants-Eagles game was coaching. This despite the fact that the Eagles did the same thing in the playoff game as they did on the December 11th game.

He's say "I know the Eagles are more talented, but..."

No buts.

I definitely mentioned that I thought the Giants coaches had a bad game in Philly. But I never said or suggested that I believe “coaching” was the “big problem.”

The Giants got their butts kicked from the opening whistle to the final whistle. They were beat up for 60 minutes. That’s not Philly out-coaching the Giants. That’s Philly dominating the LOS both sides of the ball and just about every other facet of the game as well.
I've wondered the same thing  
Giants18and1 : 1/24/2023 2:44 pm : link
Whether our defense would have had better luck had they played the more aggressive style we saw during the season as opposed to (what seemed like) a more conservative style that was used against Minnesota and Philly.

Either way I don't think we would win; even an aggressive blitzing style would be exposed against the Eagles run game, WR screens, not to mention the 1 on 1 battles the cornerbacks would have had to win.

I think we would see Philly make some big plays against the blitz, but also see some mistakes/errant throws/sacks as a result of the pressure. The run defense, specifically the linebackers, might have fared a little better attacking the line of scrimmage rather than reading/reacting.
RE: RE: whether it changes the outcome or not,  
Giants18and1 : 1/24/2023 2:51 pm : link
In comment 16012303 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16012294 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


it's still a legitimate question and topic for a message board. Some here are just so defensive and sensitive.



Nope. M.S. has been transparent since the end of the game. "Giants should have been more competitive. Their coaching let them down."

He's posted this non-stop since Saturday.

When the other team is better across the board, at virtually every position, you lose unless something very weird happens.

The Giants got their butts kicked in on December 11th. They did so again last Saturday. There is no anomoly here.

I doubt M.S. even knows what the Wink's blitz rates was in the game.


Valid points, but the first Philly game that we got destroyed still felt like there were some plays we could have made to at least keep the game competitive (i.e. Julian Love's missed INT/pass break up resulting in the TD). This just felt completely hopeless, on both sides of the ball.

You're right, part of that is because the Eagles are superior to the Giants at just about everywhere - an argument can be made at RB. People will want to say QB but you can't say that until you've seen that DJ can also perform at Hurts level with talent around him. OL, DL, secondary, LBs, WR's, TE, all in favor of the Eagles, and by a wide margin in some cases.
It does sting because of who we're talking about,  
Beezer : 1/24/2023 3:00 pm : link
but it's a hell of a lot easier to move on by realizing that the Giants simply are not in the same class of talent as the Eagles, nor are they with the 49ers (or even Dallas, for that matter). I'm not there yet - may take a few weeks or after the Super Bowl - but I'm pretty happy with where the team is right now, and the fact the "new" GM seems to have a clue+ makes me excited for the draft and the rest of the off-season.

That said I fucking hate that piece of shit Eagles motherfucking head coach and notable, I stopped short of wishing death on him in some gruesome way. (Repeat, I stopped short.)
I will say this  
RollBlue : 1/24/2023 3:02 pm : link
I felt we came out playing soft on Defense, and I do think that was a coaching mistake. The third and 3 completion to Brown in the Red Zone on drive 1 was not even contested.

Having said that, the biggest reason we weren't going to win the game regardless was them running the ball down our throats.

I think the coaching should have been better based on what we've seen out of Wink all year. Would have made the game more competitive I believe. Blitzed McKinney early 4th quarter, should have been a TO, where was that in the first quarter?
RE: It does sting because of who we're talking about,  
M.S. : 1/24/2023 3:04 pm : link
In comment 16012374 Beezer said:
Quote:
but it's a hell of a lot easier to move on by realizing that the Giants simply are not in the same class of talent as the Eagles, nor are they with the 49ers (or even Dallas, for that matter). I'm not there yet - may take a few weeks or after the Super Bowl - but I'm pretty happy with where the team is right now, and the fact the "new" GM seems to have a clue+ makes me excited for the draft and the rest of the off-season.

That said I fucking hate that piece of shit Eagles motherfucking head coach and notable, I stopped short of wishing death on him in some gruesome way. (Repeat, I stopped short.)

Gotta say their Head Coach was really too much lining up for a 2-point conversion up 27-0.

27-0!!!

What the ****!!!
When were their interviews  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/24/2023 3:35 pm : link
seemed like Kafka especially had his plate full?
We could not stop the run  
Rjanyg : 1/24/2023 4:09 pm : link
We have nobody behind Dex and Leo that can hold up and the doubled Dex.

On one play, I saw Kelce literally push Ellis off his feet and onto the ground with one arm. I knew Kelce was good and that Ellis is an underwhelming player but he is not a small person.

What the Eagles have done with very few highly drafted players on their O Line. is beyond impressive. Kind of reminds me of our 2007 line.
RE: We could not stop the run  
M.S. : 1/24/2023 5:08 pm : link
In comment 16012544 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
We have nobody behind Dex and Leo that can hold up and the doubled Dex.

On one play, I saw Kelce literally push Ellis off his feet and onto the ground with one arm. I knew Kelce was good and that Ellis is an underwhelming player but he is not a small person.

What the Eagles have done with very few highly drafted players on their O Line. is beyond impressive. Kind of reminds me of our 2007 line.

Gotta say it was demoralizing in the second half seeing Philly running what looked like the same play... lineman pulling up in between the tackles and just paving the way for Gainwell and Sanders. It reminded me a lot of how the Giants utilized Chris Snee. Would be really nice to add an All-Star guard to our front, preferably through the Draft!
I rewatched the game  
Archer : 1/24/2023 5:09 pm : link
I rewatched the game as I am a glutton for punishment.

But while watching I noticed that Giants played without vigor. They looked like they were running in sand. They had no explosion, power, or speed.

They looked tired. I wonder if the short week impacted them more than expected. They played an emotional game Sunday afternoon game in Minnesota and turned around and played a Saturday night game.

The Eagles coming of a bye were fully rested and prepared.
The Giants looked like a tired team.
I wonder if the Giants would have been more competitive on a full weeks rest and with less travel
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