After the Eagles divisional round debacle, I've seen a number of posters blaming the OL, Neal in particular, but basically the entire OL other than Thomas.
When Jones was drafted, one of his supposedly promising traits was his athleticism and mobility. Indeed, it was said at the time that whatever he lacked as a passer would be neutralized by the advantage his mobility and athleticism offer over a statue like Eli.
Some might even recall slick-haired McAdoo calling out Eli in a press conference after some loss, talking about how a QB needs to be able to play from a "dirty pocket" as a way to slight him (on a side note: fuck you McAdoo)
Fast-forward 4 years. Jones is averaging less than one TD pass a game, now with a real-deal coaching staff-- but his most ardent defenders cite the OL as an excuse for his below-average numbers and abysmal divisional performance.
We all saw him airmailing balls and crap throws all night on Saturday. He can barely function in a "dirty pocket." I'd go as far as to say that prime Eli was better playing from a dirty pocket than the superior athlete Jones.
Eli made his line look better, esp that 2011 season. I don't think Jones does. In fact, holding onto the ball too long is arguably and looking confused like a deer in headlights when things go off-script is one of his defining characteristics.
I understand the Giants had an above .500 season and jones looked dominant vs the Vikings in the wildcard round.. I get there were chants for him after the Colts game.
But I have serious doubts he can elevate his game, scramble, and make off-script plays when things break down. To date he's not shown to be able to do this
I have serious doubts about bringing him back at 30-35 million a year.
I don't think an OL will ever be perfect enough for him to compete against the better defenses. And this was part of the justification used to move off of late-career Eli--that he needed a dominant OL to thrive because he was old and immobile and that it was just unrealistic to expect that given the dearth of quality OL in the league.
Jones is 100 times the runner and athlete Eli is but somehow looks just as bad if not worse when things break down.
Will be interesting to see how Schoen and Dabes play this out.
I don't even think Jones sucks.
I think he's solidly between "sucks" and "franchise QB."
I also don't think he thrives using his athleticism to make off-script plays and is probably league-average in this regard as well.
For the record I have never called Jones a franchise QB.
The Giants had a better K
Quote:
that was a lot of words to say Jones sucks. Well done.
I don't even think Jones sucks.
I think he's solidly between "sucks" and "franchise QB."
I also don't think he thrives using his athleticism to make off-script plays and is probably league-average in this regard as well.
"He can barely function in a dirty pocket."
"Holding onto the ball too long and looking confused like a deer in headlights when things go off-script is one of his defining characteristics."
"I don't think an OL will ever be perfect enough for him to compete against the better defenses."
If that's the midpoint between "sucks" and "franchise QB," I'd hate to see "sucks," lol. If you think he's bad, you're allowed to say it. It's all just opinions.
Is that right?
What could he do when his first read is taken away? Stop already
You are of course welcome to believe that Jones is bad. You are just wrong.
---What is your take? The offensive line was below average this year, I believe one poster references pff and the Oline was 30th.
Fast-forward 4 years. Jones is averaging less than one TD pass a game, now with a real-deal coaching staff-- but his most ardent defenders cite the OL as an excuse for his below-average numbers and abysmal divisional performance.
---Jones is averaging 1.22 tds per game, you cannot discount rushing tds to fit a narrative. However, I agree with your general point that we'd all like the see that number at 2+ or team tds at 3.5+ per game.
We all saw him airmailing balls and crap throws all night on Saturday. He can barely function in a "dirty pocket." I'd go as far as to say that prime Eli was better playing from a dirty pocket than the superior athlete Jones.
---I agree Eli had no fear in the pocket, and my biggest knock on Jones is his pocket awareness.
Eli made his line look better, esp that 2011 season. I don't think Jones does. In fact, holding onto the ball too long is arguably and looking confused like a deer in headlights when things go off-script is one of his defining characteristics.
---Eli had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham. Jones has Hodgins (thank god), James, Slayton. Certainly not apples to apples
I understand the Giants had an above .500 season and jones looked dominant vs the Vikings in the wildcard round.. I get there were chants for him after the Colts game.
---So you agree Jones is dominant against the 17th best passing defense, 5th best rushing defense (colts), 30th passing and 22nd rushing (vikings) when stakes were at their highest?
But I have serious doubts he can elevate his game, scramble, and make off-script plays when things break down. To date he's not shown to be able to do this
---If you have doubts Jones can scramble, I have no answer. He ran for 700 yards, a lot of times by design and a lot out of a broken pocket. I disagree completely with the "off-script" comment, this is the first year we've seen Daniel look down field while running and completed multiple passes. Greatly improved in that regard.
I have serious doubts about bringing him back at 30-35 million a year.
---We'd all love to see the number at 25 (brady never had an aav above 25). But that's not realistic in todays game. I hope the number is at 30-33.
I don't think an OL will ever be perfect enough for him to compete against the better defenses. And this was part of the justification used to move off of late-career Eli--that he needed a dominant OL to thrive because he was old and immobile and that it was just unrealistic to expect that given the dearth of quality OL in the league.
---I think were all just looking for an average to above average Oline, and an upgrade at receivers, less dropped passes. This will vastly improve Jones' ability to put up the stats everyone craves.
Jones is 100 times the runner and athlete Eli is but somehow looks just as bad if not worse when things break down.
---Yup, pocket awareness needs to be improved, however I do think it was better this year.
Will be interesting to see how Schoen and Dabes play this out.
---Agreed
Good post, my opinions on it.
Jones has shown consistent improvement in all aspects of his game.
He has demonstrated that he can move in the pocket, buy time, throw into tight windows, throw all passes, throw receivers open, read coverages, run to avoid pressure and on designed plays, he is excellent in the run game, rpo, play action, he is tough,avoided injury this year, protected the ball, scored efficiently in the red zone.
By all matrix Jones was one of the top 10 qbs for the last half of the season.
Jones is 25 years old with his future in front of him.
There are no other qbs available who can replace DJ. He is ascending.
Now that he has a great coach who will continue to coach him up there is no reason to think that he will not continue to show improvement.
Also the argument that the Giants should not resign Jones because he is not elite is a straw man argument. There are only 4-5 elite qbs and every team is looking for that player. They are not available.
Because when you say jones didn’t cover up for the OL, that’s the assumption I have to make. Jones did cover up OL and wr weaknesses here all fucking year long. For fucks sake man… I give up.
Also, 7 rushing tds and about 20 huge backbreaking runs say hi. Remember me? Of course you don’t.