Jones and the OL

you stand on the DJ debate

The Eagles specialize in making QBs look bad. Jones looked bad. But to take that game as a summation of Jones's entire season is taking a very narrow view. I'm not even a huge Jones supporter, but he was forced to escape a collapsing pocket plenty of times this season, and he made plenty of positive plays when doing so. Check out some game highlights, you'll see them.

that was a lot of words to say Jones sucks. Well done.

In comment 16012675 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

that was a lot of words to say Jones sucks. Well done.

I don't even think Jones sucks.

I think he's solidly between "sucks" and "franchise QB."

I also don't think he thrives using his athleticism to make off-script plays and is probably league-average in this regard as well.

I think what really hurt was not having a elite option at WR. I only watch the game live but I gather Philly was very prepared to handle Jones running and with the subpar WR group and insufficient running game and pass blocking it was a tough deal. Could have been better but lots to learn and grow from for Jones and the team.

For the record I have never called Jones a franchise QB.

Give the Eagles some credit for crying out loud. What QB looks good playing for the NY Giants Saturday night?

In fact, I can make an argument that running QBs need a better OL. Most running QBs in today's NFL run because they can and not because they should. They were trained in college to run when their guy wasn't open. I don't care how much the gake changes, if you're going to win in the NFL then you need to make plays from the pocket. Being able to run is a bonus but shouldn't be what you hang your hat on. Look at how bad Murray has regressed. He can't throw from the pocket. He's constantly yelling at his coach and teammates. When these running QBs have poor protection, all it does is give them an excuse to run and make them a worse passer.

Look who he’s throwing to compared to The Eli’s targets.

They were better across the OL, the TEs and WRs...with a better pass rush and run defense....a more athletic QB....probably a better punter.

The Giants had a better K

This season?

In comment 16012678 japanhead said:

Quote:

In comment 16012675 UConn4523 said: Quote: that was a lot of words to say Jones sucks. Well done. I don't even think Jones sucks. I think he's solidly between "sucks" and "franchise QB." I also don't think he thrives using his athleticism to make off-script plays and is probably league-average in this regard as well.

"He can barely function in a dirty pocket."

"Holding onto the ball too long and looking confused like a deer in headlights when things go off-script is one of his defining characteristics."

"I don't think an OL will ever be perfect enough for him to compete against the better defenses."

If that's the midpoint between "sucks" and "franchise QB," I'd hate to see "sucks," lol. If you think he's bad, you're allowed to say it. It's all just opinions.

I became a fan in 1955! Those years were beyond terrible, I do not want to have to go through years of Flacco, Ryan, Wilson, and rookie qb's who are not NFL caliber qb's. The Giants need to keep Jones and try to find a qb in the draft they can develop. Be careful what you wish for, if Jones were to end up with the Commies who have so very good players he could win them a SB!

Jones needs to use his athleticism to avoid the league's best pass rush to win a game with subpar receivers.

Is that right?

all season until the Eagle game. But that was the ONLY game that mattered since it fed your narrative.

this WR core is close to what Eli had. Please stop with all this.

In comment 16012780 mdthedream said:

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this WR core is close to what Eli had. Please stop with all this.

What could he do when his first read is taken away? Stop already

carry a bad team to the playoffs. He had a bad last game in a situation where we were out coached, and the talent was better at every single position except LT and NT. If we should ditch DJ, or even judge him, for the Eagles game, we should do the same for the coaching staff and get rid of them. Or at least give them a pay cut to show our disapproval.

You are of course welcome to believe that Jones is bad. You are just wrong.

Jones needs to consistently show the pocket movement skills he showed late in the regular season and in fact needs to improve them so he can function against top defenses. He’s still a work in progress.

of the OL vs Eagles before offering opinions. Also OL Worst graded OL in NFL in 2022 and thats with an Allpro at LT

After the Eagles divisional round debacle, I've seen a number of posters blaming the OL, Neal in particular, but basically the entire OL other than Thomas.
---What is your take? The offensive line was below average this year, I believe one poster references pff and the Oline was 30th.

Fast-forward 4 years. Jones is averaging less than one TD pass a game, now with a real-deal coaching staff-- but his most ardent defenders cite the OL as an excuse for his below-average numbers and abysmal divisional performance.
---Jones is averaging 1.22 tds per game, you cannot discount rushing tds to fit a narrative. However, I agree with your general point that we'd all like the see that number at 2+ or team tds at 3.5+ per game.

We all saw him airmailing balls and crap throws all night on Saturday. He can barely function in a "dirty pocket." I'd go as far as to say that prime Eli was better playing from a dirty pocket than the superior athlete Jones.
---I agree Eli had no fear in the pocket, and my biggest knock on Jones is his pocket awareness.

Eli made his line look better, esp that 2011 season. I don't think Jones does. In fact, holding onto the ball too long is arguably and looking confused like a deer in headlights when things go off-script is one of his defining characteristics.
---Eli had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham. Jones has Hodgins (thank god), James, Slayton. Certainly not apples to apples

I understand the Giants had an above .500 season and jones looked dominant vs the Vikings in the wildcard round.. I get there were chants for him after the Colts game.
---So you agree Jones is dominant against the 17th best passing defense, 5th best rushing defense (colts), 30th passing and 22nd rushing (vikings) when stakes were at their highest?

But I have serious doubts he can elevate his game, scramble, and make off-script plays when things break down. To date he's not shown to be able to do this
---If you have doubts Jones can scramble, I have no answer. He ran for 700 yards, a lot of times by design and a lot out of a broken pocket. I disagree completely with the "off-script" comment, this is the first year we've seen Daniel look down field while running and completed multiple passes. Greatly improved in that regard.

I have serious doubts about bringing him back at 30-35 million a year.
---We'd all love to see the number at 25 (brady never had an aav above 25). But that's not realistic in todays game. I hope the number is at 30-33.

I don't think an OL will ever be perfect enough for him to compete against the better defenses. And this was part of the justification used to move off of late-career Eli--that he needed a dominant OL to thrive because he was old and immobile and that it was just unrealistic to expect that given the dearth of quality OL in the league.
---I think were all just looking for an average to above average Oline, and an upgrade at receivers, less dropped passes. This will vastly improve Jones' ability to put up the stats everyone craves.

Jones is 100 times the runner and athlete Eli is but somehow looks just as bad if not worse when things break down.
---Yup, pocket awareness needs to be improved, however I do think it was better this year.

Will be interesting to see how Schoen and Dabes play this out.
---Agreed

Good post, my opinions on it.

It amazes me that Jones has one bad game against a far superior team and he becomes a liability.

Jones has shown consistent improvement in all aspects of his game.

He has demonstrated that he can move in the pocket, buy time, throw into tight windows, throw all passes, throw receivers open, read coverages, run to avoid pressure and on designed plays, he is excellent in the run game, rpo, play action, he is tough,avoided injury this year, protected the ball, scored efficiently in the red zone.

By all matrix Jones was one of the top 10 qbs for the last half of the season.
Jones is 25 years old with his future in front of him.

There are no other qbs available who can replace DJ. He is ascending.

Now that he has a great coach who will continue to coach him up there is no reason to think that he will not continue to show improvement.

Also the argument that the Giants should not resign Jones because he is not elite is a straw man argument. There are only 4-5 elite qbs and every team is looking for that player. They are not available.

If we were only talking protection, that's one thing. Protection challenges coupled with limited skills at the WR position is a very different situation than one of these by themselves.

And just focusing on the playoff loss to Philly?

Because when you say jones didn’t cover up for the OL, that’s the assumption I have to make. Jones did cover up OL and wr weaknesses here all fucking year long. For fucks sake man… I give up.

Also, 7 rushing tds and about 20 huge backbreaking runs say hi. Remember me? Of course you don’t.