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Is anyone else worried about Jones' durablity going forward?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/24/2023 8:48 pm
I think it's a foregone conclusion-barring the unforeseen-he's our QB these next couple of seasons. And yes, this was the first full season he's played. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about his availability in the coming years with some of the shots he took this season, especially in the Colts game. Some of it was his aggressiveness & some of it was cheap hits from defenders, but this concerns me.

He runs a lot for a QB & seems to welcome contact. Maybe getting legit weapons around him will lessen his need to run. Fingers crossed.
They did seem  
Pork Chop : 1/24/2023 8:55 pm : link
to hold him back from running in the last 6 games of the regular season to preserve his health. It was his rushing in the Minnesota playoff game that really made the difference, but who knows how often during the regular season he'll do that.

To answer your question, I am worried about this durability because running is such a big part of his game.
Hell, I'm worried about everyone's durability going forward.  
81_Great_Dane : 1/24/2023 8:59 pm : link
Including my own.
Not really  
Mark from Jersey : 1/24/2023 9:09 pm : link
but now that you mention it for a running QB it has to be a concern despite how healthy he currently is.
yes - running as much as he did doesnt seem sustainable  
Eric on Li : 1/24/2023 9:17 pm : link
lamar and kyler have each had the same issue the last few years. fields learned that lesson this year too.

josh allen is kind of the only outlier but even he had some arm issues this year.

i think all of these guys who use their legs that much would be well served following the russell wilson strategy of leaning more on their arms and less on their legs as they age.

but at the same time id have no problem picking bryce young 1st overall and as a smaller guy he has the same question. herbert and burrow have both taken some huge shots too.

luck is still the biggest factor in most injuries. jones is tough and has shown the ability to play through some injuries (bears game) so im not sure he has any risk beyond normal.
It’s certainly a consideration  
greatgrandpa : 1/24/2023 9:26 pm : link
It’s not so much that he run because sometimes it’s actually safer outside the pocket. It’s when he runs with a Bulldog mentality, and for some reason challenges a CB or safety with a head on collision. Add in cheap shots by frustrated tacklers and it’s an invitation to a bad party. He seems to be getting the importance of the slide so that is good news
Running QBs end up injured  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 1/24/2023 9:27 pm : link
It's the nature of the beast.
Yes  
Sean : 1/24/2023 9:28 pm : link
Which is why I think the Giants need to draft a mid round QB with a similar skill set. Tyrod Taylor hasn’t been durable.
It's a concern for sure.  
Producer : 1/24/2023 9:30 pm : link
.
It’s always a little concerning when the only time a guy stays healthy  
Metnut : 1/24/2023 9:34 pm : link
the whole year is during a contract year.
 
christian : 1/24/2023 9:37 pm : link
Burrow blew an ACL and was in the Super Bowl 13 months later.

If Jones blew an ACL, he’s probably not right for 2 seasons.
RE: …  
speedywheels : 1/24/2023 10:10 pm : link
In comment 16012897 christian said:
Quote:
Burrow blew an ACL and was in the Super Bowl 13 months later.

If Jones blew an ACL, he’s probably not right for 2 seasons.


LOL, and you know this for certain how?
RE: …  
IchabodGiant : 1/24/2023 10:13 pm : link
In comment 16012897 christian said:
Quote:
Burrow blew an ACL and was in the Super Bowl 13 months later.

If Jones blew an ACL, he’s probably not right for 2 seasons.


Awesome logic. Good job!
Lamar jackson has yet to start 16 games in his entire 5 year career  
speedywheels : 1/24/2023 10:13 pm : link
including 10 starts in the last two seasons. Yet posters on this board have no problem giving him a 100% guaranteed contract (or close to it).

Where's the durability concern about him?
including missing 10 starts in the last two years  
speedywheels : 1/24/2023 10:14 pm : link
.
Not really  
UConn4523 : 1/24/2023 10:15 pm : link
I used to care about injuries a lot more but they are so unpredictable. When you are in your mid 20’s it isn’t something I’d dwell on, these guys heal fast. And if the worst happens you’ll net a top pick and go from there. It’s football.
With Jones' style  
.McL. : 1/24/2023 10:19 pm : link
absolutely!

I have been asking the question in numerous thread: How long can he produce with his legs like this?

If he is going to last much beyond 30, he has learn to do it with his arm more. If not, he may not even make it to 30.
I was more worried for his health…  
JoeSchoens11 : 1/24/2023 10:20 pm : link
when he had no pocket presence.

He’s not a quick twitch guy, so it’s really just the cumulative hits and his awkward sliding (which has also improved) causing the biggest risk.

Hopefully he can cut down on the contract he takes with a better feel for the offense and a wr or two who can beat coverage
RE: RE: …  
christian : 1/24/2023 10:23 pm : link
In comment 16012942 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 16012897 christian said:


Quote:


Burrow blew an ACL and was in the Super Bowl 13 months later.

If Jones blew an ACL, he’s probably not right for 2 seasons.



LOL, and you know this for certain how?


Because Daniel Jones is exponentially more reliant on his legs to produce yards. It’s not a knock on him, he’s a dual threat QB.

In much the same way Barkley wasn’t himself until year two back from his ACL, neither would Jones.

In 2021 Burrow ran the ball 40 times, half of them were scrambles and nearly the rest were kneel downs or sneaks. Running the ball was virtually not a part of his game.

No ones knocking your baby, chill out.
The NFL is so violent, it casts doubt on paying ANY player  
cosmicj : 1/24/2023 10:24 pm : link
A huge chunk of money.

Yet no GM has decided to build a team only from $5-10mm players, one with a lot of depth. It would be an interesting approach but the fact that it hasn’t been tried makes it likely it is deeply flawed. Still, I wish someone would experiment with it.
If running backs and WRs  
section125 : 1/24/2023 10:29 pm : link
get hurting running the ball, so will QBs. Perhaps another reason Schoen wants to limit the contract years with Jones.
More worried about passing TDs  
GMen72 : 1/25/2023 2:19 am : link
$30+ million QBs throw for 1 per game.
You cannot win in this league anymore...  
DefenseWins : 1/25/2023 6:37 am : link
without a QB who can move the chains with his legs. So, if anyone has serious concern over this, then you may need pills or alcohol to calm down.

The Giants should focus on finding a backup who can run the offense the same way with the same plays. Similar to the Ravens.
No more than any other mobile QB  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2023 6:44 am : link
.
RE: More worried about passing TDs  
section125 : 1/25/2023 7:05 am : link
In comment 16013035 GMen72 said:
Quote:
$30+ million QBs throw for 1 per game.


Well, that and 10 wins(including a playoff win) with a sieve OL and a #1 WR with hands of stone and a #2 WR that was out run by his grandmother...
There was a time when Aaron Rodgers scrambled quite a bit  
mattlawson : 1/25/2023 7:10 am : link
Ran out of bounds mostly. It would love to see so many options in the passing game and a good run game that DJ running is the straw that breaks the defense’s back. Rather than relying on it. The Eagles more or less played that game against us the other night. When you can do anything and everything how do you defend such a team. Ultimately that’s where we need to be and Dallas / Philly and with a QB change Washington is right there
No need to worry about his durability long-term  
giantBCP : 1/25/2023 7:36 am : link
Since it appears that Jones doesn’t want to be here, we’re only looking at a one year franchise tag.
Yes  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/25/2023 7:53 am : link
but I don't really like using your QB as a big part of the running game. 17 game season against all these very big, powerful and fast players just seems like its a lot of risk.

I understand you can get hurt anywhere in the pocket but at least you have some protection rule wise.

Running hits plus the hits you are going to take in the pocket over a whole season probably takes a toll. If not a injury that keeps you then maybe enough to impact your job over the season.

Smart running where you are avoiding hits for the most part. Sure. Designed runs off tackle taking on shots like a running back not good imv.

Daboll seems to not worry about this. Allen does the same in Buffalo but he is also 245 and seems more natural than Jones. Jones looked more natural this year to me but see took some big shots in not the best position.

Rather build the OL to let the backs do the work with QB pitching in when its wide open.

I don't get this fear  
Now Mike in MD : 1/25/2023 8:11 am : link
of running QBs being more likely to get injured. If anyone has any stats o prove it, I'm open to considering it.

For instance, both of Lamar's injuries the past two years occurred in the pocket.

Except for the concussion against Dallas, I don't think any of DJ's injuries occurred outside of the pocket.

And I'm trying to think of any QB injuries over the years that occurred outside of the pocket.

Logically, it would seem to me that a QB is much more likely to get injured in the pocket because he is more likely to get blind sided, etc., and is much more of a siting duck.
Here's a study  
Now Mike in MD : 1/25/2023 8:22 am : link
I'm not confirming the legitimacy of the methodology, but it refutes that running QBs are more likely to be injured
Study - ( New Window )
Between his QB brain, his arm and his legs  
chick310 : 1/25/2023 8:26 am : link
Daniel Jones' most valuable asset for us in winning games are his legs.

So if he runs less because of injuries/durability issues then you can do the math.
NowMike  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/25/2023 8:43 am : link
His neck injury was against Dallas as well and that was one of those designed runs on the inside.

These are the type runs I am talking about and they did one against Philly as well.

RE: NowMike  
Now Mike in MD : 1/25/2023 8:58 am : link
In comment 16013135 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
His neck injury was against Dallas as well and that was one of those designed runs on the inside.

These are the type runs I am talking about and they did one against Philly as well.


I think in the end, you need to look at statistical probabilities, and the stats confirm that the fact that DJ runs does not make him any more susceptible to injury than a traditional pocket passer.
No more  
joeinpa : 1/25/2023 8:59 am : link
Than any other player
My biggest concern is that  
Bill in UT : 1/25/2023 9:07 am : link
with Jones' speed, Daboll might have him return punts, though apparently there's evidence that PR's don't get hurt either
RE: RE: NowMike  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/25/2023 9:10 am : link
In comment 16013152 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 16013135 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


His neck injury was against Dallas as well and that was one of those designed runs on the inside.

These are the type runs I am talking about and they did one against Philly as well.




I think in the end, you need to look at statistical probabilities, and the stats confirm that the fact that DJ runs does not make him any more susceptible to injury than a traditional pocket passer.


I look at how a QB is built physically and how natural they are in taking hits or not. In Jones case I see a 6/5" QB who is a little unnatural still when he makes contact imv and also presents a different type of target versus a shorter more compact one.

A general stat would not be something I would use as a guide for any QB. Some naturally are just more conducive to being more like a running back.

You said you could not think of any QB hurt outside the QB. I gave you one. Jones.

Cumulative hits over the course of a season increase risk for injury and also I think it can carry over to in pocket play that impacts a QB as a passer from those hits.

RE: I don't get this fear  
japanhead : 1/25/2023 9:57 am : link
In comment 16013104 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
of running QBs being more likely to get injured. If anyone has any stats o prove it, I'm open to considering it.

For instance, both of Lamar's injuries the past two years occurred in the pocket.

Except for the concussion against Dallas, I don't think any of DJ's injuries occurred outside of the pocket.


Didn't the neck injury that sidelined him for the last third of the '21 season vs. the eagles occur when he was running (outside the pocket)?
His durability was a concern coming into the season  
Dinger : 1/25/2023 10:16 am : link
How could we justify giving a mediocre QB a contract who cant stay on the field. Its still a concern but at least you can see a reason to pay him. I worry, that like many other athletes across all sports, once he gets paid, injuries become MORE frequent.
In a word, yes.  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/25/2023 10:17 am : link
He seems to take a lot of punishment. While he is tough, he is vulnerable to getting minor injuries. Hopefully he can avoid the major ones.
RE: RE: More worried about passing TDs  
GMen72 : 1/25/2023 12:12 pm : link
In comment 16013063 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16013035 GMen72 said:


Quote:


$30+ million QBs throw for 1 per game.



Well, that and 10 wins(including a playoff win) with a sieve OL and a #1 WR with hands of stone and a #2 WR that was out run by his grandmother...


The Giants success was smoke and mirrors this year...it's not sustainable year over year. 6-1 start, and 4-7-1 after. Coaching/scheme makes this team competitive every week, but it won't sneak up on teams next year.
RE: Here's a study  
.McL. : 1/25/2023 3:04 pm : link
In comment 16013115 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
I'm not confirming the legitimacy of the methodology, but it refutes that running QBs are more likely to be injured Study - ( New Window )

But Jones is not just any running QB that gets the easy yards and slides.

Jones likes to push it. He stiff arms, he lowers is shoulder and bulls for extra yards. Those hits add up.
I am  
SomeFan : 1/25/2023 4:20 pm : link
especially considering he had the neck/head injury on a run.
Durability doesn't increase the more you run  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2023 5:46 pm : link
He is a running QB. It is instinctive. He will get hurt again, especially considering he almost never slides and seems to like getting tackled and hit.
McL and Ten Ton with the right sentiments.  
chick310 : 1/25/2023 6:41 pm : link
Jones taking off and running is one thing but he displays a bit too much courage and bravado when taking on tacklers, sometimes mutliple ones.

And in Franchise-QB language, that has a certain level of stupidity attached to it.
Maybe in the past but not now  
Giantimistic : 1/25/2023 7:01 pm : link
This season he was much better at sliding and knowing when to take hits as a runner. He also bulked up a lot and is the one starting to deliver some of the hits.
"Delivering" hits are still hits.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2023 7:09 pm : link
He was delivering a hit when he put his head down and got trucked Grady Jackson last year. It's still not good for the neck.

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