Deserves mentioning once again - the WR situation

The Giants will be dependent on development of current players (Neal, Gates and the guards)....Thibs and Ogulari.

But DL, WR and corners need Additional bodies......preferably studs.

Schoen needs a great off season

How well we did this year when you analyze position by position. Astounding.

is even more astounding when you combine the "quality" of the WRs with how poor the OL was. Essentially, aside from SB, DJ, and Thomas, everyone else on offense was either below average to poor

The talent level at WR had to be lowest on the team. (It makes sense since they got nothing from Toney, Golladay or Shep)

The reason to be so optimistic, is the success this team had with such poor talent. With some cap room and another full draft, the team should be much better.

the Giants had the most "expensive" wide receiver group (in terms of cap) or one of them heading in to the season.

So, it's not fair to say they ignored it (just like they didn't ignore OL) it's more true to say they (prior regime) paid/picked the wrong players.

In August the WR position was Golladay, Shepard, Toney, Robinson, etc..

makes some trades with assets that we may value less in the overall scheme of things over time for some better impact players on Offense right now.

Leonard Williams could be that asset to dangle around the league to teams with deeper supply at WR and/or TE.

in addition to the amazing coaching job -- we(I) may not be giving Daniel Jones enough credit. There were posters who insisted at the beginning of the season that a healthy Jones alone meant a winning record, there may be something to that.

The same holes many of us were pointing out at the beginning of the season still exist. I can only imagine what this group can do with an influx of real talent.

It bodes well for us!

In comment 16013163 chick310 said:

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makes some trades with assets that we may value less in the overall scheme of things over time for some better impact players on Offense right now. Leonard Williams could be that asset to dangle around the league to teams with deeper supply at WR and/or TE.

Not likely. A team that is trading a WR is likely not in the position to be taking on a high priced DL who is approaching 30

assessing positional groups, I don't think any compare to the lack at WR.

You can argue that other groups need more beef, but there is simply no denying that WR is serving up baloney as the main entre.

My opinion is that we want more at other areas, but we NEED more at WR.

The argument becomes whether we can put in marginal resources at WR and improve enough that more emphasis in other areas will pay dividends.

on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27.
https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window )

thread saying that we only need to add one WR to the roster and we'd be fine with

WR1, Hodgins, Robinson, Johnson, and James.


That is Gettleman-like thinking

The Giants will have to use the trade market and/or the draft if they want to bring in a true #1.

..."the holes many of us were pointing out at the beginning of the season still exist"

Hopefully some of those holes are filled with 2nd year guys coming off of their rookie injuries.

I would bet that the staff sees much of the OL improvement on the roster. ILB may be addressed with Beavers.

The talent in the draft aligns with the Giants biggest needs. I would hope for day 1/2 to include CB, WR, ILB or DL and WR.

especially when looking at all the playoff games. The gap in talent at WR is so vast it’s almost funny. Kudos for the guys here making it work, but it just isn’t close to enough.

Obviously they need to upgrade the WR position although when Robinson returns, that’s part of it. Collin Johnson looked good in preseason also. But, if the OL is stronger and we have an effective running game, a QB making the kind of money Jones is asking for, should be able to elevate the offense even without a stud at WR. A really good QB makes everyone around them better.

In comment 16013168 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 16013163 chick310 said: Quote: makes some trades with assets that we may value less in the overall scheme of things over time for some better impact players on Offense right now. Leonard Williams could be that asset to dangle around the league to teams with deeper supply at WR and/or TE. Not likely. A team that is trading a WR is likely not in the position to be taking on a high priced DL who is approaching 30

Maybe not, but not sure how you assessed the relationship of every other team with respect to their WRs and DL needs in minutes. Simply an opinion on ways to improve the roster deficiencies without always using the draft.

...trading assets should/will be for picks rather than players.

I know Robinson is saying he is ahead of schedule, but historically most players are not back to 100 percent until their second season after ACL surgery. So I don't think we should be counting on much from him next year.

this "room" around in one season. It can be done.

Slayton dropped seven passes or 10 percent of his opportunities. He's such a frustrating player. He had 8 touchdowns as a rookie. But since then, he has seven in the last three seasons combined.

but addressing the OL will help even still WR's that are not considered in the upper tier category.

Most of the Giants issues this year happened when the could not run the ball forcing the poorer down/distance situations which led to the two biggest issues on the team; WR's and OL.

Get the OL to stay out these situations as frequently as they happen against the better teams is a good start.

That quick passing game that had some success was a band aid that teams will be prepared for as the Eagles were which I expected.

I think Neal playing to his draft status and good play at LG, C and RG will be a huge difference. The worse the OL is the better the WR's will need to be to navigate around it imv against the better teams.

In comment 16013171 Eric from BBI said:

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on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window )

Even worse is we had the 8th fewest attempts at 520 compared to the most (Bucs) at 751. Our drop rate is 5.1% and there’s was 3.9%.

I say one in Rd 1 or 2 and then another later. However, the way Schoen spoke I would say he is going BPA available early in this draft with so many upgrades needed.
If not a stud WR in Rd 1 then maybe a stud TE.

cause you need top end talent AND depth at that position.

We need quality starters at WR, CB & ILB. We also NEED depth at DT, IOL and passrush. And that's assuming we bring back UFA starters at QB, HB, S and C. Add those positions to the list if they move on.

Reassuring that the combo of JS and the coaching staff was so adept at getting quality play from guys off the street though.

Toney, however, was the killer. He had the talent that could have helped this situation considerably.

But leave it to DG/Judge/whomever to draft a guy that ends up taking the organization and team hostage. And forcing his way out; and he's now on a team on the brink of another Super Bowl...

give me talent and depth across both lines/MLB/secondary.

Get those guys and then go get yourself that fancy sports car.

Slayton gives and takes.

He certainly drops too many balls, but he also caught a higher percentage of targets than many of the other big play WRs in the NFL (guys with 10+ YPT).

Slayton had a slightly/higher catch rate than AJ Brown, Waadle, and McLaurin.

I'm not putting him in their class, because they are more well rounded WRs, but it's worth noting.

In comment 16013179 Samiam said:

Quote:

Obviously they need to upgrade the WR position although when Robinson returns, that’s part of it. Collin Johnson looked good in preseason also. But, if the OL is stronger and we have an effective running game, a QB making the kind of money Jones is asking for, should be able to elevate the offense even without a stud at WR. A really good QB makes everyone around them better.

Some people just can't help taking any opportunity to take shots. Then they spout groupthink/truisms ("A really good QB makes everyone around them better.") rather than objective views.

In comment 16013172 BigBlue7 said:

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thread saying that we only need to add one WR to the roster and we'd be fine with WR1, Hodgins, Robinson, Johnson, and James. That is Gettleman-like thinking

Truth be told outside of WDR you cannot count any of them as long-term solutions yet.

Hodgins is a player to develop but we cannot ignore the fact that he had little impact with Bills and though he was a playmaker (so to speak) for is, it was more knowledge of the system and no competition. I think he is a solid 3/4 WR but I still cannot say with certainty that he is a big-time starting WR in the NFL.

We need at least two WR's and possibly both starters or at least both heavily involved.

In comment 16013211 christian said:

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Slayton gives and takes. He certainly drops too many balls, but he also caught a higher percentage of targets than many of the other big play WRs in the NFL (guys with 10+ YPT). Slayton had a slightly/higher catch rate than AJ Brown, Waadle, and McLaurin. I'm not putting him in their class, because they are more well rounded WRs, but it's worth noting.

He doesn't get into the end zone however. He had 8 touchdowns as a rookie and then only seven the next three years.

Same as Sterling Shepard. He had 8 touchdowns as a rookie but hasn't come close since in his next six seasons.

Johnson was cut by the Jaguars. He might be a nice story, but you can't count on him. He's also coming off a major injury.

should keep. the other guys other than Robinson are all expendable.

And production as Shepard, except that Shepard is older and has an established history of injury, while Robinson is younger and just establishing an injury history.
That could change but right now, Robinson is less reliable and less productive than Slayton or James.
NO MORE SMURFS!!!

In comment 16013221 BMac said:

Quote:

In comment 16013179 Samiam said: Quote: Obviously they need to upgrade the WR position although when Robinson returns, that’s part of it. Collin Johnson looked good in preseason also. But, if the OL is stronger and we have an effective running game, a QB making the kind of money Jones is asking for, should be able to elevate the offense even without a stud at WR. A really good QB makes everyone around them better. Some people just can't help taking any opportunity to take shots. Then they spout groupthink/truisms ("A really good QB makes everyone around them better.") rather than objective views.

Funny how Aaron Rodgers has railed against Packers for not getting him more talent - leading up this past years draft and even after it for awhile.. This notion that a QB can raise all levels is pretty wrong and lazy analysis. When a good defense can take out your skill players in even numbers (no need to extra bodies or coverage), it puts the QB a disadvantage. Add in a leaky pass pro Oline and you have a recipe like last Saturday night's game.

Jones played well many times where passing numbers will minimal by design.

Again look at this:

Our WR corps changed completely by week 4. By the time we played Detroit KG was bench warmer, WDR ended up on IR, KT was gone, SS home, David Sills (a starter) began to fade until not see much again..

We had James, Hodgins, Slayton (king of drops) and Johnson as our main threats..

That alone tells you even Mahomes isn't raising that group up.

guys know that Marcus Johnson started seven games for us?

Yikes.

for a very high pick. A true two way TE to compliment Bellinger might be able to provide real solutions to NYG’s current passing and blocking issues, no? Not just a luxury pick?
What else is to be done if the talent isn’t there at WR?

In comment 16013222 jvm52106 said:

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Truth be told outside of WDR you cannot count any of them as long-term solutions yet.

Can't realistically count on Robinson as a long-term solution yet, can we? That's not expressing pessimism or doubt, but realistically, he's still largely an unknown.

maybe it can be improved a bit with some minor ....

redecorating touches like reupholstering the chairs but otherwise

In comment 16013241 Eric from BBI said:

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guys know that Marcus Johnson started seven games for us? Yikes.

Seven starts. Nine receptions.

thinking they need to upgrade the top two WR's. Then everybody else can compete for the remaining spots. May the best find a position on the roster.

I get the argument for more and better WRs. But if I'm looking at this roster I think the defense is what needs the help. By weighted DVOA the Giants' offense was the 7th best in the league, by virtue of scheme and Jones' legs. I think you can roll the dice on that for another year... but the defense was 29th overall and dead last in stopping the run.

IMO: top priority is interior DL depth and off-ball linebacker. I'd follow that with interior OL (if you trust Neal as RT next year), and RT if you want to move Neal to guard. After that I'd put WR as my top priority.

DL, IOL, LB, WR--no particular order.

was poached off a PS mid-season and barely has enough speed to beat LBs in a foot race, you are in deep crap.
Love Hodgins, but ideally he'd be a #4 coming off the bench on 3rd and long.

I'd bring back Richie James for the slot. He has some wheels and good hands.

The roster is so devoid of talent that Schoen will easily be able to take BPA at #25 and improve any group on the team. They are in dire need of WR, CB, ILB, IOL, and ER.

In comment 16013249 RHPeel said:

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I get the argument for more and better WRs. But if I'm looking at this roster I think the defense is what needs the help. By weighted DVOA the Giants' offense was the 7th best in the league, by virtue of scheme and Jones' legs. I think you can roll the dice on that for another year... but the defense was 29th overall and dead last in stopping the run. IMO: top priority is interior DL depth and off-ball linebacker. I'd follow that with interior OL (if you trust Neal as RT next year), and RT if you want to move Neal to guard. After that I'd put WR as my top priority.

And you can throw cornerback on there as well. Giants pieced it together well but they could really use a good press corner.

Basically: if the Giants decide to roll with a similar WR strategy next year I won't mind, in spite of the weaknesses of the group. Too many needs.

to filling all of our needs with above average players and turning out a roster like the Eagles next year.

Best we can hope for is to responsibly manage our cap situation, try and "hit" on the majority of our draft picks, and bring in some free agents who can upgrade our overall talent level. An improved roster with a strong cap situation going forward (even if major needs still remain) should be the goal.

In comment 16013252 Costy16 said:

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DL, IOL, LB, WR--no particular order.

I assume you mean DT/NT for DL and if so that is not one of the biggest needs. It needs reliable depth, yes, but they have starting talent if LW returns.
And CB is a big need.

But we also need DT, CB, MLB, another DE/Edge rush specialist. Point being, there are too many holes to fill in with just one draft. What Schoen did last year was make us competitive. This year he’ll fine tune and figure out the pieces moving forward (ie who are his guys) and fill in some of the gaps. This is a multi year process. People like to use the 2020 Eagle anology, but a lot has to go right for that to happen, including some luck and having a QB who can win that’s on a rookie contracts. We should be better next year so long as Jones doesn’t leave NY. We’ll be even better, and maybe more of a championship contender, the following year.

Running a front office is hard. Not just the draft. Even if we assume we kill it during this year’s draft you need to worry about coaches leaving, injuries and FA wanting to go elsewhere despite getting fair market offers. A lot of this is out of their control.

2 WRs, 1 CB and 1 LB (was focused on ILB but Azeez may only be a situational pass rusher to keep him on the field) or .... 2 WRs, 1 CB and 1 IOL ....and hedge the draft picks using FA

crap... Golladay not only had just 6 catches in 2022 but he dropped four passes!!!!

In comment 16013179 Samiam said:

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Obviously they need to upgrade the WR position although when Robinson returns, that’s part of it. Collin Johnson looked good in preseason also. But, if the OL is stronger and we have an effective running game, a QB making the kind of money Jones is asking for, should be able to elevate the offense even without a stud at WR. A really good QB makes everyone around them better.

Can we stop with this ridiculous "elevation" talk. There is absolutely nothing a QB can do to elevate the performance of the passing game when wide receivers and tight ends can't get separation in man coverage. All the QB (and it doesn't matter how much money he is making) can do in that situation is throw it up for grabs and hope the WR wins a battle for the ball. Do you want our much below average in physicality WRs (Slayton, Robinson, Jones), who use their body to make most catches, trying to win battles against bigger, stronger CBs? That's simply a recipe for a massive amount of turnovers.

Kenny Golladay is unlikely to be back with the team
Isaiah Hodgins-contract expires (this is according to the roster page; might be exclusive rights free agent)
Darius Slayton-contract expires
Richie James-contract expires
Marcus Johnson-contract expires
Sterling Shepard-ACL tear, voidable contract
Collin Johnson-Achilles tear
Wan'Dale Robinson-ACL tear, may not be ready for the start of the season

On opening day next season, there is a chance that every single active WR player is new.

and it will have a big impact. Some positions more so and that also depends how much better the new player is.

DL, ILB, Corner, OL and WR.

BPA.

If the Giants are unable/unwilling to resign him, they are in QB limbo. TT becomes the starter and you would think they would look to draft a QB. You would think that they would do that in the top 3 rounds, taking away a pick for a WR, IOL or a CB, ALL of which are MUST HAVES this offseason. They may find a diamond in the rough at WR in the later rounds or a decent guard in rd2 or 3 but IF they have to go QB shopping, that changes a lot of plans.

In comment 16013246 Semipro Lineman said:

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maybe it can be improved a bit with some minor .... redecorating touches like reupholstering the chairs but otherwise

We had three starters at the end of the year who could not get open against man to man coverage. How is that "fine."

In comment 16013268 Dang Man said:

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But we also need DT, CB, MLB, another DE/Edge rush specialist. Point being, there are too many holes to fill in with just one draft. What Schoen did last year was make us competitive. This year he’ll fine tune and figure out the pieces moving forward (ie who are his guys) and fill in some of the gaps. This is a multi year process. People like to use the 2020 Eagle anology, but a lot has to go right for that to happen, including some luck and having a QB who can win that’s on a rookie contracts.

Yeah the Eagle analogy doesn't really work anyway. They got out from a huge QB contract and in the process acquired a 1st and 3rd round pick for Wentz, and are currently spending essentially nothing on the QB and RB spots.

The Giants appear set to be spending $40 million at minimum on just the starters at those positions next year.

unless the Giants upgrade via UFA, there will be a learning curve from their draft picks. If Hodgins takes a step back and Robinson eases his way back, then we could see some really poor WR play to start the season.

In comment 16013253 section125 said:

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was poached off a PS mid-season and barely has enough speed to beat LBs in a foot race, you are in deep crap. Love Hodgins, but ideally he'd be a #4 coming off the bench on 3rd and long. I'd bring back Richie James for the slot. He has some wheels and good hands. The roster is so devoid of talent that Schoen will easily be able to take BPA at #25 and improve any group on the team. They are in dire need of WR, CB, ILB, IOL, and ER.

Hodgins wasn't on their practice squad. He was waived.

that the Giants don't force a 1st round WR. There are needs all over the roster. This draft is deep in CB and that is a huge need. ILB is a huge need. 5 tech DE is a huge need. They need to let the board come to them. We should not be deceived where this team is. Stick to the rebuild plan.

In comment 16013178 UConn4523 said:

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especially when looking at all the playoff games. The gap in talent at WR is so vast it’s almost funny. Kudos for the guys here making it work, but it just isn’t close to enough.

I think the people who argued against this were doing so because it helped their argument (that Jones sucks and it's not because of the OL and WRs. The WRs are just fine...).

In comment 16013315 Dr. D said:

Quote:

In comment 16013178 UConn4523 said: Quote: especially when looking at all the playoff games. The gap in talent at WR is so vast it’s almost funny. Kudos for the guys here making it work, but it just isn’t close to enough. I think the people who argued against this were doing so because it helped their argument (that Jones sucks and it's not because of the OL and WRs. The WRs are just fine...).

you are correct Sir!

In comment 16013311 ElitoCanton said:

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that the Giants don't force a 1st round WR. There are needs all over the roster. This draft is deep in CB and that is a huge need. ILB is a huge need. 5 tech DE is a huge need. They need to let the board come to them. We should not be deceived where this team is. Stick to the rebuild plan.

exactly right. they need talent almost everywhere. they shouldn't force anything

In comment 16013284 Vin_Cuccs said:

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Kenny Golladay is unlikely to be back with the team Isaiah Hodgins-contract expires (this is according to the roster page; might be exclusive rights free agent) Darius Slayton-contract expires Richie James-contract expires Marcus Johnson-contract expires Sterling Shepard-ACL tear, voidable contract Collin Johnson-Achilles tear Wan'Dale Robinson-ACL tear, may not be ready for the start of the season On opening day next season, there is a chance that every single active WR player is new.

Hodgins isn't going anywhere. They will tender him.

But most of these guys should be gone.

off-season. What I'm not so sure about is what kind of wideout we'll add - will he be a speed guy or a tall guy or a strong guy or a great route runner - probably some combo of those things.

this pretty much said it all on the season. these first 9 weeks were when Sills, Golladay, and Johnson were getting most of the starts.



The last 9 were when Hodgins arrived and James/Slayton were inserted pretty much full time.


and to make things even clearer, you can see Hodgins alone accounted for the majority of the production increase.



the evolution of the passing attack this season was living proof of how the offense can improve as you add better players to it.

sills started weeks 1-5
golladay started weeks 1 and 4
johnson started weeks 5-8

2 of those 3 had catch rates under 50% (sills was high man at 65%).

hodgins, slayton, and james were all over 70% catch rates on the year.

In comment 16013186 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Slayton dropped seven passes or 10 percent of his opportunities. He's such a frustrating player. He had 8 touchdowns as a rookie. But since then, he has seven in the last three seasons combined.

I say bye to Slayton unless he's brought back again as #6-7. He might be a nice guy and seems to care, but he doesn't have the "dependable" part. Shepard also lacks dependability, though due to injuries, not bad hands (he's only played 32 games in the last FOUR seasons. Only 10 in the last two).

So, including Golladay, there are at least 3 WRs they can be moving on from.

In comment 16013248 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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thinking they need to upgrade the top two WR's. Then everybody else can compete for the remaining spots. May the best find a position on the roster.

Unfortunately, the WR FA crop is weak. By that, I mean no WR1. Mostly WR2s and Wr3s.

But I think there may be some opportunity there and would look at Meyers, Lazard and JuJu.

In comment 16013171 Eric from BBI said:

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on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window )

Does not seem to indicative or relevant to anything. The 5 teams with more dropped passes were:
1 Green Bay Packers 30
2 Buffalo Bills 29
3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 29
4 Jacksonville Jaguars 29
5 Miami Dolphins 27

4 of them made the playoffs. The team in 7th place was the Chiefs. The Chargers are 8th and the Bengals 9th with 25 and 24 respectively. The Niners were 14th with 22. Are we saying that 4 less dropped passes is make or break?? Please.

There is no sense getting big time receivers unless there is some demonstration that they can be utilized. Galloway has disappeared here; he and the qb seem to have some issue because the qb will not even look his way. Engram was let go and just had his best year since he was teamed with Eli with 73 catches. Toney has turned into a useful player with the Chiefs and will be on the field for the conference championship game. It would not surprise me to see Slayton leave here and become the field stretcher for some other team. Quit crying about receivers when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have.

In comment 16013221 BMac said:

Quote:

In comment 16013179 Samiam said: Quote: Obviously they need to upgrade the WR position although when Robinson returns, that’s part of it. Collin Johnson looked good in preseason also. But, if the OL is stronger and we have an effective running game, a QB making the kind of money Jones is asking for, should be able to elevate the offense even without a stud at WR. A really good QB makes everyone around them better. Some people just can't help taking any opportunity to take shots. Then they spout groupthink/truisms ("A really good QB makes everyone around them better.") rather than objective views.

The thing is, Jones did "elevate" these guys. The #15 scoring offense with these WRs, including one who led the league in drops and one who was literally not on an NFL roster in early Nov. But there's a limit for how much a QB can elevate his WRs.

And people like Samiam can't even give a single recent example of a QB that elevated bottom tier WRs to the extent that's needed to win in the playoffs. Just empty words tainted with an anti-Jones bias.

IF they got a true "go to #1", would the rest of the WR room be adequate? OR other than Wan dale and maybe Johnson or Higgins, do we need TWO top outside receivers? One of many decisions to be made.

that getting a top WR helps the offense - why some argue otherwise is foolish.

Diggs in Buffalo, Hill in Miami. Look at the Eagles, they won 4 games in 2020, 9 in 2021 and lost badly in wild card round. Add AJ Brown and they're a win from the SB. Bengals drafted Chase, still have a hard time blocking, but move the ball and score points on everyone except Baltimore.

If there Giants can add an impact WR, and 2 impact players on defense - should compete for NFC - luck on injuries being a major factor...

I would feel pity and sadness for him.

In comment 16013386 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 16013171 Eric from BBI said: Quote: on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window ) Does not seem to indicative or relevant to anything. The 5 teams with more dropped passes were: 1 Green Bay Packers 30 2 Buffalo Bills 29 3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 29 4 Jacksonville Jaguars 29 5 Miami Dolphins 27 4 of them made the playoffs. The team in 7th place was the Chiefs. The Chargers are 8th and the Bengals 9th with 25 and 24 respectively. The Niners were 14th with 22. Are we saying that 4 less dropped passes is make or break?? Please. There is no sense getting big time receivers unless there is some demonstration that they can be utilized. Galloway has disappeared here; he and the qb seem to have some issue because the qb will not even look his way. Engram was let go and just had his best year since he was teamed with Eli with 73 catches. Toney has turned into a useful player with the Chiefs and will be on the field for the conference championship game. It would not surprise me to see Slayton leave here and become the field stretcher for some other team. Quit crying about receivers when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have.

Wonder what the % is as a percentage of pass attempts. We tended to pass a lot less than most of those teams.

Hodgins (mind is elsewhere lol)

In comment 16013386 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 16013171 Eric from BBI said: Quote: on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window ) Does not seem to indicative or relevant to anything. The 5 teams with more dropped passes were: 1 Green Bay Packers 30 2 Buffalo Bills 29 3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 29 4 Jacksonville Jaguars 29 5 Miami Dolphins 27 4 of them made the playoffs. The team in 7th place was the Chiefs. The Chargers are 8th and the Bengals 9th with 25 and 24 respectively. The Niners were 14th with 22. Are we saying that 4 less dropped passes is make or break?? Please. There is no sense getting big time receivers unless there is some demonstration that they can be utilized. Galloway has disappeared here; he and the qb seem to have some issue because the qb will not even look his way. Engram was let go and just had his best year since he was teamed with Eli with 73 catches. Toney has turned into a useful player with the Chiefs and will be on the field for the conference championship game. It would not surprise me to see Slayton leave here and become the field stretcher for some other team. Quit crying about receivers when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have.

The reason why Toney is "succeeding" is obvious to every NYG fan.

Except for you. Which is not very surprising.

I was told that the reason why NYG didn't pass the ball a lot was due to having a QB who "sucked" as a passer.

You mean to tell me it was more about the overall very mediocre WR core (and based on PPF rankings, the 2nd worse OL in the league)? I'm shocked, just SHOCKED I tell you.

This is yet another example of Jones and Kafka doing waaaaay more with waaaaaaay less. 15th in the league in scoring with those two huge shortcomings???? Quite frankly, they are both miracle workers.

In comment 16013375 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16013248 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: thinking they need to upgrade the top two WR's. Then everybody else can compete for the remaining spots. May the best find a position on the roster. Unfortunately, the WR FA crop is weak. By that, I mean no WR1. Mostly WR2s and Wr3s. But I think there may be some opportunity there and would look at Meyers, Lazard and JuJu.

NYG don't have any WR2's on the roster, either.

In comment 16013189 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 16013171 Eric from BBI said: Quote: on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window ) Even worse is we had the 8th fewest attempts at 520 compared to the most (Bucs) at 751. Our drop rate is 5.1% and there’s was 3.9%.

Excellent point. And yet, some posters say things like "quit whining" about the receivers they have that they can't "utilize" properly

need to upgrade the position, but I would not spend big UFA money on it. Premium draft picks and mid-level free agency is the way to go. Or explore the trade market..

In comment 16013386 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 16013171 Eric from BBI said: Quote: on dropped passes by team... Giants were 6th in the NFL with 27. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 - ( New Window ) Does not seem to indicative or relevant to anything. The 5 teams with more dropped passes were: 1 Green Bay Packers 30 2 Buffalo Bills 29 3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 29 4 Jacksonville Jaguars 29 5 Miami Dolphins 27 4 of them made the playoffs. The team in 7th place was the Chiefs. The Chargers are 8th and the Bengals 9th with 25 and 24 respectively. The Niners were 14th with 22. Are we saying that 4 less dropped passes is make or break?? Please. There is no sense getting big time receivers unless there is some demonstration that they can be utilized. Galloway has disappeared here; he and the qb seem to have some issue because the qb will not even look his way. Engram was let go and just had his best year since he was teamed with Eli with 73 catches. Toney has turned into a useful player with the Chiefs and will be on the field for the conference championship game. It would not surprise me to see Slayton leave here and become the field stretcher for some other team. Quit crying about receivers when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have.

Richie James is having a career year here. Isaiah Hodgins found a home and has excelled here. Slayton is having his best year here since his rookie year. Other than Golladay, whom the coaching staff doesn’t like, who exactly are you talking about when you say we aren’t utilizing the ones we have?

In comment 16013486 Chris in Philly said:

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need to upgrade the position, but I would not spend big UFA money on it. Premium draft picks and mid-level free agency is the way to go. Or explore the trade market..

there's not really a choice in UFA - the most expensive WR will probably be OBJ bc there's just nobody out there. Maybe Jakobi Meyers but i assume NE will bring him back.

the trade market could be interesting but it will likely be expensive. hopkins the one interesting name out there that may be gettable cheaper due to his circumstances.

he will be 2 years removed from the injury and had a fairly high snap rate, which proves he was mostly healthy in 2022. Add in Tennessee’s passing woes and he can be a good buy low candidate. For him he gets a shot at being a #1 WR again.

In comment 16013502 UConn4523 said:

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he will be 2 years removed from the injury and had a fairly high snap rate, which proves he was mostly healthy in 2022. Add in Tennessee’s passing woes and he can be a good buy low candidate. For him he gets a shot at being a #1 WR again.

he's an interesting name if ten cuts him.

In comment 16013502 UConn4523 said:

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he will be 2 years removed from the injury and had a fairly high snap rate, which proves he was mostly healthy in 2022. Add in Tennessee’s passing woes and he can be a good buy low candidate. For him he gets a shot at being a #1 WR again.

Of all available people. I like Woods the most too and seems the most realistic given or still shitty cap situation. He would be a great vet to add to this unit, they have to hit on some rookies too, but Woods can serve as a very reliable possession type reciever here.

to trade for a legit WR1 with what the upcoming FA WR class looks like. I understand not wanting to trade picks but you can't go into the season with this group of WRs if you expect DJ to continue to grow. Tee Higgins, Brandon Aiyuk, Michael Pittman, Deandre Hopkins are some names that could certainly be out there and a move needs to be made to get one of them. Center is a position that needs to be addressed in free agency. There are 2 very good Cs that will be UFAs in Pocic and Bradbury. Along with ILB these 2 positions must be addressed in free agency. Have to have faith that Neal and Ezeudu will make significant strides in year 2 and the line will somewhat solidify itself. Not addressing the Center position would be a huge mistake. Gates cannot be trusted to play at a high level after what we saw this season. I understand that he was working back from a serious injury but we cannot be certain that he will return to form and if he does, great. You now have great depth on the line and can move him to the other guard spot.

and if traded for the nyg would have him essentially on a 1 year deal worth 12m with 2 option years after that only if they want to keep him. they could cut him any time for 0.

he's entering his age 31 season but he was never a guy who won with super explosiveness.

i'd have no issue flipping day 3 picks for him and isaiah mckenzie to go with hodgins, wandale, and a high draft pick. that would be a much improved WR room.

In comment 16013496 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16013486 Chris in Philly said: Quote: need to upgrade the position, but I would not spend big UFA money on it. Premium draft picks and mid-level free agency is the way to go. Or explore the trade market.. there's not really a choice in UFA - the most expensive WR will probably be OBJ bc there's just nobody out there. Maybe Jakobi Meyers but i assume NE will bring him back. the trade market could be interesting but it will likely be expensive. hopkins the one interesting name out there that may be gettable cheaper due to his circumstances.

That's what I mean. There's nobody worth spending big money on, so let's go bargain shopping. There are a lot of competent, professional WR's out there that can fill out the middle of the group. Let's draft a WR1 if we can.

In comment 16013513 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16013502 UConn4523 said: Quote: he will be 2 years removed from the injury and had a fairly high snap rate, which proves he was mostly healthy in 2022. Add in Tennessee’s passing woes and he can be a good buy low candidate. For him he gets a shot at being a #1 WR again. he's an interesting name if ten cuts him.

Ahh, that’s right, I don’t know why I thought he was a pending FA. A cut is possible though, it’s a big cap hit with good savings if they do.

In comment 16013537 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 16013496 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 16013486 Chris in Philly said: Quote: need to upgrade the position, but I would not spend big UFA money on it. Premium draft picks and mid-level free agency is the way to go. Or explore the trade market.. there's not really a choice in UFA - the most expensive WR will probably be OBJ bc there's just nobody out there. Maybe Jakobi Meyers but i assume NE will bring him back. the trade market could be interesting but it will likely be expensive. hopkins the one interesting name out there that may be gettable cheaper due to his circumstances. That's what I mean. There's nobody worth spending big money on, so let's go bargain shopping. There are a lot of competent, professional WR's out there that can fill out the middle of the group. Let's draft a WR1 if we can.

definitely. i think some of the fringe names speculated on the trade market are interesting, and even slayton might be interesting depending on what his price is. but id be looking to add 2 vets and 2 rookies in draft, with at least 1 of the rookies likely in the top 6 picks knowing that probably 10+ WRs will be taken in that top 60.

In comment 16013386 HomerJones45 said:

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Quit crying about receivers when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have.

Quit crying about QBs when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have?

I'd love a mauling guard and WR with 2 of our first 3 picks.

I dont think you can count on him to contribute in a manner the team can rely on for 2023. Even with the new surgical and recovery techniques, its too material an injury to fully heal from that quickly. Evidence Saquon's 12 month return - which was a year too early.

I'd love for it to happen but to bank on it doesn't make much strategic sense for the team. Ergo: Draft.

But unless Neal gets a lot better, ORT is a need for us too.

With Hodgins, Wandale, and James as the main WRs.

They will not.

In the preseason

I really hope we don’t take any WR until day 3. Jake Bobo, Keytaon Thompson, Justin Shorter, Eli Higgins. Plenty of options late. We allocated high capital to Toney and Wandale recently. We need to build the trenches if we want to win in the playoffs.

unwarranted. Yes the Giants could use drafting a wide receiver - just like almost every other position on the team. However PFF grades Richie and Hodgins as 39th and 26th out of 121 wide receivers. Don't like PFF then here's a query below at stathead that puts those two guys in a small but talented group.

If you sort the query our two guys are at the top in catch% but the bottom in yards/target. However when further analyzing that data the first downs per target puts them 2nd and 17th of the 23. They may not be getting downfield yards but they are getting first downs.

If you look at separation data on next gen stats our two guys rank 7th and 18th in that list of 24.

I am all for getting one or more receivers in the draft.However I think the IOL, LB and CB positions are more glaring needs. My usual mock draft goes OL O'Cyrus Torrence
, LB Jack Campbell and one of CBs in the third round. Then third round or later grab at least two receivers.

https://stathead.com/tiny/aOOJE - ( New Window )

hit the nail on the head.

People said jones couldn't elevate the players around him, so when the WR's started producing, even at mediocre levels at the end of the year, guess what? It wasn't because of Jones. It was because the WR's really weren't that bad, even though almost every metric said otherwise.

So in some sort of wierd way, the WR's doing well wasn't because of Jones, but rather because they magically improved.

Look at the posters who think the WR's aren't that bad. That's all you need to know, just like Dr. D. knows.

In comment 16013632 Brown_Hornet said:

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In comment 16013386 HomerJones45 said: Quote: Quit crying about receivers when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have. Quit crying about QBs when we can't seem to utilize the ones we have?

Well done…

We need help here but there are some pieces. Think we’re looking at:

1. Wandale - he was the best WR all summer when Shep was healthy, Toney was on the team and everyone else was here. I have high hopes.

2. Hodgins - Definitely a keeper

3. Top draft pick - I’d be surprised if we don’t use a 1st or 2nd

4. Richie James - Good depth and option on ST

5. Collin Johnson- was coming on before his injury

6. Cheap FA signing - Richie James like

7. Late round pick or USFA

8. Shep?

Not a world beater squad but better than the end of this year