I know a lot of people view SAS as a joke, but I do think a lot of BBI’ers under estimate how important Barkley is to this offense. He is the lead engine. Link - ( New Window )
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
The minute I hear Steven A is for something i go in the
I don't think so mode. He hates the Giants to begin with. This is the same guy that thought they should have drafted Haskins. It's easy to make points to say why they should without looking at the negatives if u do.
But the debate is whether a RB can be the lead engine on a consistent championship caliber offense in todays NFL. The Giants were a fantastic story this season but let’s not pretend they weee an offensive juggernaut. Obviously that isn’t all Barkleys fault but if we are calling him the lead engine and the offense was mediocre at best, how much are you investing in that engine?
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
17 carries and 5 catches in the wildcard round. Where we won.
And how effective do we think those Jones run options would be without the threat of handing it off to Barkley?
...but always ignore the fact DJ threw against 8 in the box most of the year. If Barkley walks, things get A LOT more difficult for DJ. Barkley makes things easier for DJ...DJ did Barkley zero favors.
many people that didn’t want to draft him still have that fueling every single thread about him. My favorite - “RBs can be drafted in any round of the draft”.
I don’t want Barkley back at all costs but I do want him back and I’m comfortable paying him a notch below market rate for that. If not, it’s cool, I’m open to that too but expect a regression on the ground for a while.
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
17 carries and 5 catches in the wildcard round. Where we won.
And how effective do we think those Jones run options would be without the threat of handing it off to Barkley?
What is with posters posting absolutely fake stats?
Barkley had 9 caries and 5 catches against the Vikings. Did you even watch the game?!? Link - ( New Window )
excluding ballgames, but the only thing Stephen A. knows is NBA hoops, that's about it. You know who I like on ESPN is Ryan Clark talkin' football, he pretty good.
I like the Patriots model for running backs. They use two or three
Depending on situation snd that particular back's strength. Use snd abuse then let them go when they want too much money. Sounds crude but they always find good backs then let them go when they get expensive
That could get a could nice players. How's the Titans RB contract working out?
I agree in general with the infamous second RB contract history.
Although I think that Henry contract was pretty fair, and the organization clearly designed the team to be a quasi-80s team with the bellwether RB. But I consider that an outlier because Henry is from a different planet.
Barkley is not a bellwether RB.
The way the coaching staff used Barkley in the playoffs
spoke volumes to me about their intentions going forward.
I'm surprised (if the rumor is true) that they even offered him $12M AAV.
I'd love to have him on the team under the non-exclusive tag.
But I want nothing to do with $40M of guarantees to a RB.
I might think differently if I believed the coaching staff was committed to more of a ground-and-pound. But no more tail wagging the dog.
Worth noting -- the economics of the CMC deal to the Niners are vastly different from the contract Carolina signed. Upon completion of the current season, that contract to the Niners is 3 years / $36M with a very tiny amount guaranteed.
The ability to end the deal the moment the production doesn't warrant the price, with virtually zero dead money involved is a major, major feature.
Let the engine be run via several efficient cylinders
versus one very expensive, oft-injured lead turbine.
The talent pool is immensely deep considering the players available in free agency plus talented cheap rookies from the draft. Set up your RB Unit with guys across several points in their careers and churn them accordingly with the rookie 4-5 year contract being your base.
Easy decision if Saquon truly wants anything approx. $10M+ or more under a second deal.
the Patriots way...I think we could get similar total production out of Brieda + Brightwell + a bruising short yardage back...I see little point in paying a RB big $ on a team with so many holes...a centerpiece RB is a nice addition for a team that already has massive depth.
First off he is not the main guy. Jones is the man on this team. Second do you think he will improve with age or get less effective? RB's don't have a long shelf life in this league.
I think unless we can get a contract maybe 20% over the tag we just tag him or trade him.
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
exactly. I know they got out to a quick deficit at 14-0, but the Giants were NEVER beating the Eagles without winning time of possession and getting a couple turnovers.
The abandonment of Barkley against Philadelphia sunk us. I'd love to know why.
the Patriots way...I think we could get similar total production out of Brieda + Brightwell + a bruising short yardage back...I see little point in paying a RB big $ on a team with so many holes...a centerpiece RB is a nice addition for a team that already has massive depth.
yeah, the Patriot way involves having the GOAT as a QB though.
RE: 3 yrs, 36 mil with very little guaranteed is the way to go,
and mccaffrey is quite a bit better of a player than barkely, frankly.
maybe i was spoiled by bradshaw/jacobs, but barkley doesn't have enough "dog" in him for me.
if he scoffs at that you let him walk or franchise him if you haven't used the tag on jones or something.
with barkley's injury history 3-36 is more than fair.
i think he knows he's not getting 16 a year, and even hinted at this in a press conference.
That is not the McCaffery deal at all. He has 60% of the contract guarantees which is tops for running backs - pretty sure he and Elliott are the only 2 over 50% and the rest are well under 50%.
That could get a could nice players. How's the Titans RB contract working out?
How is the Titans QB contract working out?
Not great either, 30 mill for bottom 3rd QB
Yep. His cap hit is $37M and they can't release him even though they are $23M over the cap. Rough.
Giants are about navigate those same waters shortly. Hopefully Schoen does better job than Jon Robinson.
I agree. That is why I brought it up. I think a lot of fans are ignoring the impact of the DJ contract moving forward. This thread is kind of ironic. There were complaints all year that Jones has no weapons yet many are ready to dump his best one. Here is an idea. Maybe Jones can not break the bank so the team can keep Thomas, Lawrence, Barkley, Love, and McKinnie and add weapons.
I won't hold my breath.
You have to consider that as effective as he was this year
He has clearly lost a step. The 40 yard run he had on Saturday would have been a TD prior to 2020. Not a trend that is likely to reverse and will probably get worse as he gets older.
...but always ignore the fact DJ threw against 8 in the box most of the year. If Barkley walks, things get A LOT more difficult for DJ. Barkley makes things easier for DJ...DJ did Barkley zero favors.
If you want to engage in meaningful dialogue here, you should probably stop using terms like “fan boy”
If your purpose is to elicit angry and confrontational responses, which usually end up derailing the conversation on an interesting topic, by all means continue.
RE: You have to consider that as effective as he was this year
He has clearly lost a step. The 40 yard run he had on Saturday would have been a TD prior to 2020. Not a trend that is likely to reverse and will probably get worse as he gets older.
I hear this a lot but Epps had a good angle. You also don’t know how gassed he may have been on that particular play or what he saw that could have jeopardized the run. His top speed (over 21 mph) is right in line with 2018 of you go by the published metrics that are out there, I posted them in a thread yesterday.
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
exactly. I know they got out to a quick deficit at 14-0, but the Giants were NEVER beating the Eagles without winning time of possession and getting a couple turnovers.
The abandonment of Barkley against Philadelphia sunk us. I'd love to know why.
Just a guess but I think they felt the short passing game would be more reliable in making sure they had manageable 3rd down's. I'm not sure the Giants even had a path to victory but I think running through the tackles was in hindsight our only shot to control clock and move the ball consistently. Tough when you fall behind that quickly to do it. Hindsight 20/20 they probably should have ran him on that 3rd and 3 if they already knew it was a 4 down situation.
...but always ignore the fact DJ threw against 8 in the box most of the year. If Barkley walks, things get A LOT more difficult for DJ. Barkley makes things easier for DJ...DJ did Barkley zero favors.
This is the truth that many do not want to accept. I really like DJ and want him back but Barkley is our best player and makes DJ a better QB. Those saying RB's are a dime a dozen are correct but Barkley is the best RB in the league. Imagine a viable number 1 WR taking the top off the defense and the kind of games Barkley could have.
I don't think Daboll wants to run an RB-centered offense. He did it for much of this season because he didn't have much else to work with.
This the interesting question heading into the offseason, Daboll did a great job maximizing the group he had but what does he ultimately envision this offense being?
Also relevant as to what WR's they will target in the draft & FA. I'm thinking the preference is on guys who can lineup inside & outside like Stefon Diggs who give you more flexibility & unpredictability.
Its early but I could see the Giants really liking Jordan Addison who is already a sexy pick in mock drafts which typically means...no way lol
the Patriots way...I think we could get similar total production out of Brieda + Brightwell + a bruising short yardage back...I see little point in paying a RB big $ on a team with so many holes...a centerpiece RB is a nice addition for a team that already has massive depth.
You can not like Barkley for a variety of reasons, but this is pretty insulting to the man.
Faking to him has proven to be a great play. Jones is open to run because everytime he fakes to Barkley, the whole defense follows him leaving Jones a wide open running lane. How many times have you seen even the camera man follow Barkley. Same goes for all those slants being caught by James and Hodgins on the QB read plays. He puts it in Barkleys gut, the defense reacts, he pulls it out and even James can get open.
Barkley makes this offense go, whether he has the ball or not
that made this offense go. Our points per game and offensive efficiency went up as we used him less. He looked like a top 5 running back early in the season, and a middle of the road back since the bye. Paying him $12 per would be a crime. If you want to see a great running back who impacts game results go look at Barkley - in his rookie year. He has not been close to that since then. If we had not given him his fifth year option and used the money to get a good center, we would have had a better running game. Give me Joshua Corbin, Gary Brightwell, Matt Breida and $15MM to spend on the IOL, and then you will have an engine worth having.
17 carries and 5 catches in the wildcard round. Where we won.
And how effective do we think those Jones run options would be without the threat of handing it off to Barkley?
He's a very good back, he is, however if he wants more than $12-13M, see ya.
I don’t want Barkley back at all costs but I do want him back and I’m comfortable paying him a notch below market rate for that. If not, it’s cool, I’m open to that too but expect a regression on the ground for a while.
Quote:
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
17 carries and 5 catches in the wildcard round. Where we won.
And how effective do we think those Jones run options would be without the threat of handing it off to Barkley?
What is with posters posting absolutely fake stats?
Barkley had 9 caries and 5 catches against the Vikings. Did you even watch the game?!?
Link - ( New Window )
I agree in general with the infamous second RB contract history.
Although I think that Henry contract was pretty fair, and the organization clearly designed the team to be a quasi-80s team with the bellwether RB. But I consider that an outlier because Henry is from a different planet.
Barkley is not a bellwether RB.
I'm surprised (if the rumor is true) that they even offered him $12M AAV.
I'd love to have him on the team under the non-exclusive tag.
But I want nothing to do with $40M of guarantees to a RB.
I might think differently if I believed the coaching staff was committed to more of a ground-and-pound. But no more tail wagging the dog.
Worth noting -- the economics of the CMC deal to the Niners are vastly different from the contract Carolina signed. Upon completion of the current season, that contract to the Niners is 3 years / $36M with a very tiny amount guaranteed.
The ability to end the deal the moment the production doesn't warrant the price, with virtually zero dead money involved is a major, major feature.
The talent pool is immensely deep considering the players available in free agency plus talented cheap rookies from the draft. Set up your RB Unit with guys across several points in their careers and churn them accordingly with the rookie 4-5 year contract being your base.
Easy decision if Saquon truly wants anything approx. $10M+ or more under a second deal.
How is the Titans QB contract working out?
Quote:
That could get a could nice players. How's the Titans RB contract working out?
How is the Titans QB contract working out?
Not great either, 30 mill for bottom 3rd QB
Quote:
In comment 16013568 uther99 said:
Quote:
That could get a could nice players. How's the Titans RB contract working out?
How is the Titans QB contract working out?
Not great either, 30 mill for bottom 3rd QB
Yep. His cap hit is $37M and they can't release him even though they are $23M over the cap. Rough.
and mccaffrey is quite a bit better of a player than barkely, frankly.
maybe i was spoiled by bradshaw/jacobs, but barkley doesn't have enough "dog" in him for me.
if he scoffs at that you let him walk or franchise him if you haven't used the tag on jones or something.
with barkley's injury history 3-36 is more than fair.
i think he knows he's not getting 16 a year, and even hinted at this in a press conference.
Quote:
In comment 16013580 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 16013568 uther99 said:
Quote:
That could get a could nice players. How's the Titans RB contract working out?
How is the Titans QB contract working out?
Not great either, 30 mill for bottom 3rd QB
Yep. His cap hit is $37M and they can't release him even though they are $23M over the cap. Rough.
Giants are about navigate those same waters shortly. Hopefully Schoen does better job than Jon Robinson.
I think unless we can get a contract maybe 20% over the tag we just tag him or trade him.
exactly. I know they got out to a quick deficit at 14-0, but the Giants were NEVER beating the Eagles without winning time of possession and getting a couple turnovers.
The abandonment of Barkley against Philadelphia sunk us. I'd love to know why.
yeah, the Patriot way involves having the GOAT as a QB though.
and mccaffrey is quite a bit better of a player than barkely, frankly.
maybe i was spoiled by bradshaw/jacobs, but barkley doesn't have enough "dog" in him for me.
if he scoffs at that you let him walk or franchise him if you haven't used the tag on jones or something.
with barkley's injury history 3-36 is more than fair.
i think he knows he's not getting 16 a year, and even hinted at this in a press conference.
That is not the McCaffery deal at all. He has 60% of the contract guarantees which is tops for running backs - pretty sure he and Elliott are the only 2 over 50% and the rest are well under 50%.
Given the structure, the panthers ate a bunch of it via the un-prorated signing bonus.
Quote:
In comment 16013591 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 16013580 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 16013568 uther99 said:
Quote:
That could get a could nice players. How's the Titans RB contract working out?
How is the Titans QB contract working out?
Not great either, 30 mill for bottom 3rd QB
Yep. His cap hit is $37M and they can't release him even though they are $23M over the cap. Rough.
Giants are about navigate those same waters shortly. Hopefully Schoen does better job than Jon Robinson.
I agree. That is why I brought it up. I think a lot of fans are ignoring the impact of the DJ contract moving forward. This thread is kind of ironic. There were complaints all year that Jones has no weapons yet many are ready to dump his best one. Here is an idea. Maybe Jones can not break the bank so the team can keep Thomas, Lawrence, Barkley, Love, and McKinnie and add weapons.
I won't hold my breath.
If you want to engage in meaningful dialogue here, you should probably stop using terms like “fan boy”
If your purpose is to elicit angry and confrontational responses, which usually end up derailing the conversation on an interesting topic, by all means continue.
I hear this a lot but Epps had a good angle. You also don’t know how gassed he may have been on that particular play or what he saw that could have jeopardized the run. His top speed (over 21 mph) is right in line with 2018 of you go by the published metrics that are out there, I posted them in a thread yesterday.
Quote:
I agree that Barkley is one of the few top skilled guys on the team, but if they Giants aren't going to focus the offense through him, then why pay him?
exactly. I know they got out to a quick deficit at 14-0, but the Giants were NEVER beating the Eagles without winning time of possession and getting a couple turnovers.
The abandonment of Barkley against Philadelphia sunk us. I'd love to know why.
Just a guess but I think they felt the short passing game would be more reliable in making sure they had manageable 3rd down's. I'm not sure the Giants even had a path to victory but I think running through the tackles was in hindsight our only shot to control clock and move the ball consistently. Tough when you fall behind that quickly to do it. Hindsight 20/20 they probably should have ran him on that 3rd and 3 if they already knew it was a 4 down situation.
This is the truth that many do not want to accept. I really like DJ and want him back but Barkley is our best player and makes DJ a better QB. Those saying RB's are a dime a dozen are correct but Barkley is the best RB in the league. Imagine a viable number 1 WR taking the top off the defense and the kind of games Barkley could have.
This the interesting question heading into the offseason, Daboll did a great job maximizing the group he had but what does he ultimately envision this offense being?
Also relevant as to what WR's they will target in the draft & FA. I'm thinking the preference is on guys who can lineup inside & outside like Stefon Diggs who give you more flexibility & unpredictability.
Its early but I could see the Giants really liking Jordan Addison who is already a sexy pick in mock drafts which typically means...no way lol
You can not like Barkley for a variety of reasons, but this is pretty insulting to the man.
The franchise tag is 10M. I’m good with tagging him.
That will chew through half our salary cap.
Barkley makes this offense go, whether he has the ball or not