What should the Giants do with Jones Poll?

“Let him walk?” Let me guess…..

I think he showed enough improvement to warrant coming back. I still need to see more before I commit long term on him. The big question that needs to be answered is “Does he play fast enough to merit a big contract?” Meaning when his first read isn’t there and he has pressure, can he find his second, third, and fourth read for a positive play.

In comment 16013653 JoeyBigBlue said:

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I think he showed enough improvement to warrant coming back. I still need to see more before I commit long term on him. The big question that needs to be answered is “Does he play fast enough to merit a big contract?” Meaning when his first read isn’t there and he has pressure, can he find his second, third, and fourth read for a positive play.

Rather than let him walk, sure. It’s just that we need help in a bunch of areas and need to re-sign some of our own, that 32 mil cap hit comes right off the top. Ouch.

I voted the first one

at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts.

as long as he consents.

I’d say $35-$40 would be more realistic as I see it

if not here, somewhere else. North of 40...

I wanted the 5th year picked up because if he had a great year I wanted him to do it again..

That was a business decision from the Giants. This is now a business decision from team Jones.

Watching that Beleav video with Banks and Papa.. I think they are floating the balloon for the org to let the fans know what is going to happen and what to expect.

There is no more prove it.. he proved it with the talent they had.

In comment 16013659 mfjmfj said:

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at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts.

If he wants more than $35 mill, I’d let him walk. He’s a good QB, but not a Top 10 QB. He still has questions to answer before putting him in that range.

Sweet spot for me is 4 years at $35 million AAV.
Gives the Giants FO a chance to lower salary cap for 2023.
Also gives Daniel another contract window before he turns 30. Works for both parties imv

That's a BBI fiction.

You guys are thirsty for a star QB so much you're making up fairytales.

In comment 16013676 Producer said:

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That's a BBI fiction. You guys are thirsty for a star QB so much you're making up fairytales.

I think he’s worth more to the Giants than other teams, but if he hits free agency he will get north of $30 mill a season. Probably somewhere around the Kirk Cousins’ contract 3 years 100 million with 90 mill guaranteed.

In comment 16013676 Producer said:

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That's a BBI fiction. You guys are thirsty for a star QB so much you're making up fairytales.

You have shown your hand a long time ago.

and build around him. Like Sy said in this weeks write-up. OL and DL. A strong OLine not only improves the offense but it also improves the defense by keeping them off the field.
Jones has shown he can make plays with his arms as well as his legs. He can lead this team with PS players to the playoffs. With pro bowlers he can take them farther IMO. All the way even.

It shows you how vocal the minority is.

with the hope the first two years actually are very manageable and cheaper than the tag and they have a way of getting out in year 3.

This should not stop them from keeping a eye on drafts.

The name of the game is to win and Jones for now at least is the best solution imv to help the HC accomplish this. As long you do this you will have a opportunity to strike again if need be.

59 - Sign him to a 4-5 year contract with (30-35 Million Range)
30 - Franchise Tag Him
11 - Let Him Walk

In comment 16013697 JoeyBigBlue said:

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59 - Sign him to a 4-5 year contract with (30-35 Million Range) 30 - Franchise Tag Him 11 - Let Him Walk

Jones haters. Let’s call them the 11 percenters. They sure do make a lot of noise.

Non exclusive tag because a replacement is identified.

In comment 16013706 JoeMorrison40 said:

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Non exclusive tag because a replacement is identified.

What replacement? We aren’t bringing back Jones and drafting a QB with a premium pick. It’s either one or the other.

In comment 16013697 JoeyBigBlue said:

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59 - Sign him to a 4-5 year contract with (30-35 Million Range) 30 - Franchise Tag Him 11 - Let Him Walk

Should we name the 11? 😂

In comment 16013706 JoeMorrison40 said:

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Non exclusive tag because a replacement is identified.

Giants would get 2 first-round draft choices for that, right?

They need him, right now, with all respect to Thomas, he is the most valuable on the team!

In comment 16013721 Jack Stroud said:

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They need him, right now, with all respect to Thomas, he is the most valuable on the team!

This is the trial balloon. Mara sanctioned it.

I'd vote for the tag. No way is he worth the kind of contract you people are talking about.

In comment 16013728 Greg from LI said:

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I'd vote for the tag. No way is he worth the kind of contract you people are talking about.

That’s weird. I set it up as only 1 vote per IP address. I’m not sure why it’s not working for you.

3 years, 100M, fully guaranteed. Guessing it ends up somewhere around there.

In comment 16013724 giantBCP said:

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In comment 16013721 Jack Stroud said: Quote: They need him, right now, with all respect to Thomas, he is the most valuable on the team! This is the trial balloon. Mara sanctioned it.

Truth! Free medium Pepsi for all who voted…

I also voted franchise tag but I am curious as to your comment - you don't think he will get 30-35/yr from the Giants or anyone else?
I'm not sure I agree with that. Lots of QB starved teams in the league right now

teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC.

Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit

In comment 16013663 Big Blue '56 said:

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I’d say $35-$40 would be more realistic as I see it

This!

next year and about 3 maybe 4 viable starters in this coming draft. Someone is going to pay DJ around 40m and my money is on the Giants being the ones to do it

In comment 16013750 LG in NYC said:

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I also voted franchise tag but I am curious as to your comment - you don't think he will get 30-35/yr from the Giants or anyone else? I'm not sure I agree with that. Lots of QB starved teams in the league right now

Oh, he'll get some big money deal, but I don't think he'll represent value at that money. I'm not sure how you build this great supporting cast around him while overpaying him.

In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said:

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God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC.

lulz

I think the one thing the haters and fan club can agree on:

We want him back - but there is a cap on the price tag.

66% want to sign him
24% want to franchise tag him
10% want to see him walk

In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said:

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teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit

There is not a single shred of evidence that Jones is wanted by 7 teams. Not a single shred. It's just something you are making up.

And I'm not hearing a single objective observer, not affiliated with the Giants, who think there are teams lining up to pay Jones 40 per.

In comment 16013692 giantBCP said:

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It shows you how vocal the minority is.

That's true in almost everything in life.

if we could get under a rookie contract with (in order) Stroud, Levis or Young

Getting on the rookie contract would be worth trading away some future draft comp.

By taking this long to see that Jones is a game manager-plus, and not an elite level QB, we're likely going to pay a salary for a player that's going to take too much infantry to get the most out of Jones.

In comment 16013758 outeiroj said:

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next year and about 3 maybe 4 viable starters in this coming draft. Someone is going to pay DJ around 40m and my money is on the Giants being the ones to do it

Then we're fools.

Ross Tucker has doubted Jones will get 40, others include, Cowherd, Mike Lombardi.

makes sense then let DJ walk. Probably try to tag and trade first of course.

If the Qb evals/likelihood are in question, then tag him and regroup next offseason.

In comment 16013766 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

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I think the one thing the haters and fan club can agree on: We want him back - but there is a cap on the price tag.

The haters don't want him back. According to the poll, the haters (about 11%) say let him walk.

In comment 16013781 bw in dc said:

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if we could get under a rookie contract with (in order) Stroud, Levis or Young Getting on the rookie contract would be worth trading away some future draft comp. By taking this long to see that Jones is a game manager-plus, and not an elite level QB, we're likely going to pay a salary for a player that's going to take too much infantry to get the most out of Jones.

We're also picking 25th, two of those QB's are going top 10. I'm not sure this franchise is in a position to trade 2-3 first round picks. Unless its egregious I think keeping Jones is the most logical move now.

is at this point, even if for 4-5 years. I would use the non-exclusive tag and see what the rest of the NFL thinks about him. Giants could either match or get 2 1’s.

I do think the Giants want Jones back, but not at any price. I can’t remember which game it was, but a loss in which Jones attempted 2 passes over 20 yards, and 4 more than 10, and afterwards Daboll rued them missing “numerous opportunities downfield”. I think they’d be comfortable in the 30-35 range for 2-3 years guaranteed, but outside of negotiating a deal prior to the FA window, the non-exclusive tag is the only option.

In comment 16013733 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16013728 Greg from LI said: Quote: I'd vote for the tag. No way is he worth the kind of contract you people are talking about. That’s weird. I set it up as only 1 vote per IP address. I’m not sure why it’s not working for you.

Using a VPN? Had to switch off to have vote counted

is going to be fascinating, moreso than this off-season.

I think Schoen is willing to play a pivot game on QB if he has to next 1-2 years.

In comment 16013794 GiantGrit said:

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In comment 16013781 bw in dc said: Quote: if we could get under a rookie contract with (in order) Stroud, Levis or Young Getting on the rookie contract would be worth trading away some future draft comp. By taking this long to see that Jones is a game manager-plus, and not an elite level QB, we're likely going to pay a salary for a player that's going to take too much infantry to get the most out of Jones. We're also picking 25th, two of those QB's are going top 10. I'm not sure this franchise is in a position to trade 2-3 first round picks. Unless its egregious I think keeping Jones is the most logical move now.

It would be tricky for sure. The Lions are probably set with Goff going forward - going to be interesting to see how that plays out - and maybe they could be a target at #6.

Look, I'm just spit balling. Getting on that rookie contract is such a bonus if you hit on it...

If we were picking 15th instead of 25th its probably a different conversation. I think it makes more sense in the next few years.

10 who I think will be very interested in a QB if the evaluation (s) check out.

Can't see any situation where JS would be able to move up. If someone fell significantly maybe a buyer beware.

Non exclusive. Receive the two picks if you don't want to match and then JS will be in business. But that would be in the following two years. Then you hope a QB is in the draft.

Goff and Wentz signed for low 30s a couple of years ago and it's likely a cap inflated version of that. If it gets over 40, then I imagine it's dressed up and greatly favors the Giants. If the Giants are actually serious about a long term deal, then without question, mid-30s is the starting point. Jones wouldn't have incentive otherwise knowing the tag or open market is the alternative.

It's possible this is all lip service on the Giants part and they just plan to tag all along though. But if they're serious about a new deal, I think it's easy for both sides to know the starting point. From there it's just a matter of the two sides meeting in the middle when it comes to the types of commitments their looking for in terms of length, structure and guarantees.

In comment 16013776 Producer said:

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In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said: Quote: teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit There is not a single shred of evidence that Jones is wanted by 7 teams. Not a single shred. It's just something you are making up. And I'm not hearing a single objective observer, not affiliated with the Giants, who think there are teams lining up to pay Jones 40 per.

I think it would be safe to say that some if not all of these below teams would consider Jones at upgrade at their qb spot... There 100% would be a market for him

1. Washington
2. Jets
3. Carolina
4. Raiders
5. Colts
6. Saints
7. Patriots
8. Titans

listed. Guaranteed money, incentives, time all play into this and how it can be structured. All you can do here is vote on what come closest to your expectations. I think most reasonable people understand that. Interesting fun poll that's all.

In comment 16013843 OBJ_AllDay said:

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In comment 16013776 Producer said: Quote: In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said: Quote: teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit There is not a single shred of evidence that Jones is wanted by 7 teams. Not a single shred. It's just something you are making up. And I'm not hearing a single objective observer, not affiliated with the Giants, who think there are teams lining up to pay Jones 40 per. I think it would be safe to say that some if not all of these below teams would consider Jones at upgrade at their qb spot... There 100% would be a market for him 1. Washington 2. Jets 3. Carolina 4. Raiders 5. Colts 6. Saints 7. Patriots 8. Titans

You can add the TB to that list since Brady is as good as gone. Houston will draft a QB but they are also going to be looking for one this offseason and they could always trade out and sign someone if they thought it was the right move.

So thats 10 other teams who need a new qb. And regardless of anyone here's opinion there is a market for DJ. Florio and sims talked about it yesterday on a podcast, so it's not just people with Giants affiliation that understand supply vs demand

In comment 16013882 outeiroj said:

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In comment 16013843 OBJ_AllDay said: Quote: In comment 16013776 Producer said: Quote: In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said: Quote: teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit There is not a single shred of evidence that Jones is wanted by 7 teams. Not a single shred. It's just something you are making up. And I'm not hearing a single objective observer, not affiliated with the Giants, who think there are teams lining up to pay Jones 40 per. I think it would be safe to say that some if not all of these below teams would consider Jones at upgrade at their qb spot... There 100% would be a market for him 1. Washington 2. Jets 3. Carolina 4. Raiders 5. Colts 6. Saints 7. Patriots 8. Titans You can add the TB to that list since Brady is as good as gone. Houston will draft a QB but they are also going to be looking for one this offseason and they could always trade out and sign someone if they thought it was the right move. So thats 10 other teams who need a new qb. And regardless of anyone here's opinion there is a market for DJ. Florio and sims talked about it yesterday on a podcast, so it's not just people with Giants affiliation that understand supply vs demand

Fair enough. but all you are doing is listing the demand. What about the supply? It's not just 8/10 teams need a QB and just Daniel Jones standing there.

At least 4 teams will have a first round QB. You might see other drafted QBs later than the 2nd round inherit jobs. And there is Carr, and Jimmy G, and maybe Brady and Rodgers and Geno, etc.

You claim to understand supply and demand. Well there is plenty of supply.

In comment 16013671 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16013659 mfjmfj said: Quote: at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts. If he wants more than $35 mill, I’d let him walk. He’s a good QB, but not a Top 10 QB. He still has questions to answer before putting him in that range.

Name your top 10 QBs. In fact, while you are at it, name all the QBs you have listed above Jones.

In comment 16013895 Ivan15 said:

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In comment 16013671 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16013659 mfjmfj said: Quote: at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts. If he wants more than $35 mill, I’d let him walk. He’s a good QB, but not a Top 10 QB. He still has questions to answer before putting him in that range. Name your top 10 QBs. In fact, while you are at it, name all the QBs you have listed above Jones.

^ This is actually a good idea. After Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Hurts, Lawrence?, Brady (old), Rodgers (old) I'm not sure there are many other qbs in the league I'm taking over Jones. I think its completely fair to have him in that 9-12 range with the arrow pointing upwards.

In comment 16013895 Ivan15 said:

Quote:

In comment 16013671 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16013659 mfjmfj said: Quote: at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts. If he wants more than $35 mill, I’d let him walk. He’s a good QB, but not a Top 10 QB. He still has questions to answer before putting him in that range. Name your top 10 QBs. In fact, while you are at it, name all the QBs you have listed above Jones.

Top 10 QBs right now IMO

Mahomes
Burrow
Allen
Herbert
Rodgers
Brady
Jackson
Lawrence
Prescott
Hurts

Then there is a second tier of guys

Cousins
Goff
Murray
Carr (I know he sucked this season, but I still think he’s a good QB)
Tua
Watson
Daniel Jones

Then there’s the aging QBs with questions

Wilson
Tannehill


Jones can be argued to be in that second group of QBs. I wouldn’t put him above any of the guys in my top 10.

67% - Sign him
22 % - Franchise Tag
11 % - Let him walk

It’s pretty clear people here want him back.

In comment 16013927 JoeyBigBlue said:

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67% - Sign him 22 % - Franchise Tag 11 % - Let him walk It’s pretty clear people here want him back.

People talk about stuff like it is fantasy football.

Big picture.

Can you imagine the media shit storm if we let Jones walk. All fine and dandy if you win, a setback will get you run the hell out of town if you are so bold. Just not happening.

My best guess is that Daboll and Schoen believe that with a little more firepower they can do real damage in the playoffs. Why start fresh with another QB when you can build on what you have. They are trying to build a team, new QB is starting over.

In comment 16013946 Thegratefulhead said:

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In comment 16013927 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: 67% - Sign him 22 % - Franchise Tag 11 % - Let him walk It’s pretty clear people here want him back. People talk about stuff like it is fantasy football. Big picture. Can you imagine the media shit storm if we let Jones walk. All fine and dandy if you win, a setback will get you run the hell out of town if you are so bold. Just not happening. My best guess is that Daboll and Schoen believe that with a little more firepower they can do real damage in the playoffs. Why start fresh with another QB when you can build on what you have. They are trying to build a team, new QB is starting over.

The Giants aren’t obligated to pay Jones. The GMs job is to sustain success for the franchise. If Jones is asking for a number that you are not comfortable with you let him leave plain and simple. You then do what you have to do to get a QB in draft. The advantage here is that you get a QB that Daboll can mold, and you have him on a cheap contract for 4-5 seasons.

In comment 16013914 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

In comment 16013895 Ivan15 said: Quote: In comment 16013671 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16013659 mfjmfj said: Quote: at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts. If he wants more than $35 mill, I’d let him walk. He’s a good QB, but not a Top 10 QB. He still has questions to answer before putting him in that range. Name your top 10 QBs. In fact, while you are at it, name all the QBs you have listed above Jones. Top 10 QBs right now IMO Mahomes Burrow Allen Herbert Rodgers Brady Jackson Lawrence Prescott Hurts Then there is a second tier of guys Cousins Goff Murray Carr (I know he sucked this season, but I still think he’s a good QB) Tua Watson Daniel Jones Then there’s the aging QBs with questions Wilson Tannehill Jones can be argued to be in that second group of QBs. I wouldn’t put him above any of the guys in my top 10.

I think Dak top 10 is pretty egregious, led the league in fumbles last year and picks this year. I don't think he's the same guy since the ankle injury.

Watson look certified top 10 before everything happened, interested to see how he performs this year.

Goff just quietly had a really good year, he's tier 2 but doesn't get much attention at all.

4,400 yards 29 TD's - 7 picks.

I'm with you on Carr, he's never had a defense rank above 26th and he was on his 6th HC I believe. I actually think Carr's best fit is Baltimore if Lamar forces his way out. The defense and ground game would do wonders for him.

Wasn't good at all this year.

A lot of volume so the stats are there but he did not look remotely like the previous year.

In comment 16013946 Thegratefulhead said:

Quote:

In comment 16013927 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: 67% - Sign him 22 % - Franchise Tag 11 % - Let him walk It’s pretty clear people here want him back. People talk about stuff like it is fantasy football. Big picture. Can you imagine the media shit storm if we let Jones walk. All fine and dandy if you win, a setback will get you run the hell out of town if you are so bold. Just not happening. My best guess is that Daboll and Schoen believe that with a little more firepower they can do real damage in the playoffs. Why start fresh with another QB when you can build on what you have. They are trying to build a team, new QB is starting over.

What media shit storm? He's not Johnny Unitas.

Not many are really arguing to let Jones “walk “

That would be asset misallocation

And no one wants the franchise tag as it pays 1 yr 45 mil

And there is a dispute over how much to pay Jones and for long

I suspect many want the Giants to give Jones the non-exclusive tag at 1 yr 32 mil which gives matching rights or 2 first round picks

A real poll?

A- Sign Daniel Jones “at all costs” (ie 4/5 years at 35-40+ mil)

B- only Sign jones at a more “limited cost” (3 yrs 30-35 mil)

C- Give franchise tag (1 yr 45 mil) to guarantee he is back

D- using the tender (1 yr 32 mil) match any offer Jones receives or bring him back at 1/32

E- using the tender (1 yr 32 mil) let Jones go for 2 first rounders if he receives an offer above choice B or bring him back at 1/32

E- let him walk for nothing, get comp pick (3rd rd) and draft a QB

In comment 16013991 HardTruth said:

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Not many are really arguing to let Jones “walk “ That would be asset misallocation And no one wants the franchise tag as it pays 1 yr 45 mil And there is a dispute over how much to pay Jones and for long I suspect many want the Giants to give Jones the non-exclusive tag at 1 yr 32 mil which gives matching rights or 2 first round picks A real poll? A- Sign Daniel Jones “at all costs” (ie 4/5 years at 35-40+ mil) B- only Sign jones at a more “limited cost” (3 yrs 30-35 mil) C- Give franchise tag (1 yr 45 mil) to guarantee he is back D- using the tender (1 yr 32 mil) match any offer Jones receives or bring him back at 1/32 E- using the tender (1 yr 32 mil) let Jones go for 2 first rounders if he receives an offer above choice B or bring him back at 1/32 E- let him walk for nothing, get comp pick (3rd rd) and draft a QB

Yes. 100% And right now I would choose E - the first E, the non-exclusive tag. You have a 2nd E which should be F, for let him walk.

What’s clear about the poll is that the majority want him back.

In comment 16013759 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 16013750 LG in NYC said: Quote: I also voted franchise tag but I am curious as to your comment - you don't think he will get 30-35/yr from the Giants or anyone else? I'm not sure I agree with that. Lots of QB starved teams in the league right now Oh, he'll get some big money deal, but I don't think he'll represent value at that money. I'm not sure how you build this great supporting cast around him while overpaying him.

Lol. It is the white elephant in the room that none of them will discuss. If you want to know where we are headed just look at the state of the Vikings and Titans heading into 2023.

For the QB franchise tag. I’m seeing 32.445 million everywhere I see online.

In comment 16014000 JoeyBigBlue said:

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For the QB franchise tag. I’m seeing 32.445 million everywhere I see online.

Look up exclusive vs non-exclusive franchise tag.

In comment 16014000 JoeyBigBlue said:

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For the QB franchise tag. I’m seeing 32.445 million everywhere I see online.

The EFT is $45M+.

Those options are convoluted. They really do have 3 options.

1) Sign Jones to the negotiated terms, use the tag as a fail-safe
2) Tag Jones to buy time and make Jones prove he can take another step
3) Don't tag Jones and let him walk without protection

Everything else is noise.

In comment 16014003 giantBCP said:

Quote:

In comment 16014000 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: For the QB franchise tag. I’m seeing 32.445 million everywhere I see online. Look up exclusive vs non-exclusive franchise tag.

Thanks

The non-exclusive franchise tag is the best option if you can’t sign a deal that works for both sides. If another team wants to sign him for over what we offer, then by all means take him. Still I don’t think teams are paying Jones and giving up 2 first round picks to get him.

Non-exclusive tag gives the Giants all the protection they need. I like Jones but he's not Burrow.

In comment 16014011 AcesUp said:

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Non-exclusive tag gives the Giants all the protection they need. I like Jones but he's not Burrow.

Exactly

In comment 16014000 JoeyBigBlue said:

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For the QB franchise tag. I’m seeing 32.445 million everywhere I see online.

There are three tags, depending on final cap #:


Exclusive franchise tag: $45.2M
Non-exclusive franchise tag: $32.5M
Transition tag: $29M

Think fans need to be more realistic about what the qb market will dictate.

In comment 16013997 giantBCP said:

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What’s clear about the poll is that the majority want him back.

The question has always been cost. Always. You guys have been plowing straw men on here that people want Jones cut or something for nothing. Barring an exception or two no one realky wanted that

But theres a huge difference between wanting him back for 1/32 or at 4/160 etc

And most have no idea the Giants could potentially get two very valuable 1st for him

Choice context matters in using a poll to discern people’s real opinion

In comment 16014011 AcesUp said:

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Non-exclusive tag gives the Giants all the protection they need. I like Jones but he's not Burrow.

Precisely.

let's see how much other teams value Jones.

i think it is a smaller market than many think.

In comment 16013894 Producer said:

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In comment 16013882 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 16013843 OBJ_AllDay said: Quote: In comment 16013776 Producer said: Quote: In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said: Quote: teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit There is not a single shred of evidence that Jones is wanted by 7 teams. Not a single shred. It's just something you are making up. And I'm not hearing a single objective observer, not affiliated with the Giants, who think there are teams lining up to pay Jones 40 per. I think it would be safe to say that some if not all of these below teams would consider Jones at upgrade at their qb spot... There 100% would be a market for him 1. Washington 2. Jets 3. Carolina 4. Raiders 5. Colts 6. Saints 7. Patriots 8. Titans You can add the TB to that list since Brady is as good as gone. Houston will draft a QB but they are also going to be looking for one this offseason and they could always trade out and sign someone if they thought it was the right move. So thats 10 other teams who need a new qb. And regardless of anyone here's opinion there is a market for DJ. Florio and sims talked about it yesterday on a podcast, so it's not just people with Giants affiliation that understand supply vs demand Fair enough. but all you are doing is listing the demand. What about the supply? It's not just 8/10 teams need a QB and just Daniel Jones standing there. At least 4 teams will have a first round QB. You might see other drafted QBs later than the 2nd round inherit jobs. And there is Carr, and Jimmy G, and maybe Brady and Rodgers and Geno, etc. You claim to understand supply and demand. Well there is plenty of supply.

Jones is a better QB than Carr or Jimmy G and only a select few teams would be interested in Brady or Rodgers and their lists will be even more selective. I'll go out on a limb and say Brady to the Colts ain't happening!

In comment 16014068 Walker Gillette said:

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In comment 16013894 Producer said: Quote: In comment 16013882 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 16013843 OBJ_AllDay said: Quote: In comment 16013776 Producer said: Quote: In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said: Quote: teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit There is not a single shred of evidence that Jones is wanted by 7 teams. Not a single shred. It's just something you are making up. And I'm not hearing a single objective observer, not affiliated with the Giants, who think there are teams lining up to pay Jones 40 per. I think it would be safe to say that some if not all of these below teams would consider Jones at upgrade at their qb spot... There 100% would be a market for him 1. Washington 2. Jets 3. Carolina 4. Raiders 5. Colts 6. Saints 7. Patriots 8. Titans You can add the TB to that list since Brady is as good as gone. Houston will draft a QB but they are also going to be looking for one this offseason and they could always trade out and sign someone if they thought it was the right move. So thats 10 other teams who need a new qb. And regardless of anyone here's opinion there is a market for DJ. Florio and sims talked about it yesterday on a podcast, so it's not just people with Giants affiliation that understand supply vs demand Fair enough. but all you are doing is listing the demand. What about the supply? It's not just 8/10 teams need a QB and just Daniel Jones standing there. At least 4 teams will have a first round QB. You might see other drafted QBs later than the 2nd round inherit jobs. And there is Carr, and Jimmy G, and maybe Brady and Rodgers and Geno, etc. You claim to understand supply and demand. Well there is plenty of supply. Jones is a better QB than Carr or Jimmy G and only a select few teams would be interested in Brady or Rodgers and their lists will be even more selective. I'll go out on a limb and say Brady to the Colts ain't happening!

They are better passers than him. He's a better runner. On balance they are close but I'm not sure you can say the market will feel he is better than Carr and JimmyG. They have done a lot more in this league than he has done, and they fit into a wider variety of systems than Jones does, so far.

You can bank on it.

Jones impressed the hell out of me this past season, but some of the figures that are being bandied about...not going to lie, it makes me nervous. I attribute more of DJ's success to Dabs/Kafka than DJ. And I'm not a DJ hater.

Sign to a 4-5 year contract (30-35 Million Range) 67.16% (270 votes)
Franchise Tag Him 21.64% (87 votes)
Let Him Walk 11.19% (45 votes)

Nice Sample Size to make the determination that BBI wants Daniel Jones back. Thanks to everyone who voted.

Giants can match or get two first round picks

In comment 16014187 JoeyBigBlue said:

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Sign to a 4-5 year contract (30-35 Million Range) 67.16% (270 votes) Franchise Tag Him 21.64% (87 votes) Let Him Walk 11.19% (45 votes) Nice Sample Size to make the determination that BBI wants Daniel Jones back. Thanks to everyone who voted.

Try doing a poll with

A Pay Jones 4/5 yrs 30-35 mil

B Get 2 firsts from ex. Carolina or Atlanta and keep the 30-35 to spend on FAs

In comment 16013842 AcesUp said:

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Goff and Wentz signed for low 30s a couple of years ago and it's likely a cap inflated version of that. If it gets over 40, then I imagine it's dressed up and greatly favors the Giants. If the Giants are actually serious about a long term deal, then without question, mid-30s is the starting point. Jones wouldn't have incentive otherwise knowing the tag or open market is the alternative. It's possible this is all lip service on the Giants part and they just plan to tag all along though. But if they're serious about a new deal, I think it's easy for both sides to know the starting point. From there it's just a matter of the two sides meeting in the middle when it comes to the types of commitments their looking for in terms of length, structure and guarantees.

It always cracks me up to see the list of QBs DJ fans use to justify paying him $30+ million. Carr, Goff, Wentz, Tanbehill...none of those are good contracts and DJs numbers can't sniff any of theirs? It makes no sense!

In comment 16013753 TheBlueprintNC said:

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teams.. hes got ton of leverage hes going to get a good deal.. God help us if the Redskins hire Schurmur as OC. Tag is non starter for a QB it ties up all of the cap. th will not be able to sign any FAs or offer contracts to our Future studs. We could see a Tag for the RB tho. much lower cap hit

Non-exclusive franchise tag is great then. Let the bidding war begin and take the two 1st round picks.

Only problem, no other team is giving up $30 million and two 1st rounders for a QB that can't throw 1 TD per game for 3 consecutive seasons.

And I am really enjoying the death throes from the DJCB. The hand wringing, bargaining whining and Pleading is delicious. The earnest yet idiotic treatise that ignores facts, fabricates proof, and eschews logic mist be my favorite. Looking for yet another place to make another final stand as all previous perches have eroded beneath their feet. Does all that mean JS and dabs are idiots? Or just not as smart as you?

In comment 16014187 JoeyBigBlue said:

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Sign to a 4-5 year contract (30-35 Million Range) 67.16% (270 votes) Franchise Tag Him 21.64% (87 votes) Let Him Walk 11.19% (45 votes) Nice Sample Size to make the determination that BBI wants Daniel Jones back. Thanks to everyone who voted.

JBB, thanks for doing this poll. It's very revealing to see the actual number of fan voices instead of the frequency and volume of the loudest. I hope to see more of these going forward.

In comment 16013914 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 16013895 Ivan15 said: Quote: In comment 16013671 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16013659 mfjmfj said: Quote: at $30 to $35. Or if you do you are looking at $100MM guaranteed. I would try for a higher AAV and less guaranteed. Still think FT, possibly leading to some negotiated position is most likely result. Also happy to let him go for 2 1sts. If he wants more than $35 mill, I’d let him walk. He’s a good QB, but not a Top 10 QB. He still has questions to answer before putting him in that range. Name your top 10 QBs. In fact, while you are at it, name all the QBs you have listed above Jones. Top 10 QBs right now IMO Mahomes Burrow Allen Herbert Rodgers Brady Jackson Lawrence Prescott Hurts Then there is a second tier of guys Cousins Goff Murray Carr (I know he sucked this season, but I still think he’s a good QB) Tua Watson Daniel Jones Then there’s the aging QBs with questions Wilson Tannehill Jones can be argued to be in that second group of QBs. I wouldn’t put him above any of the guys in my top 10.

So you would take Brady and Rodgers at their age long term over Jones. Cause if you are Ranking Ob’s age 100% comes into play. I’m not going to justify most on your second tier cause it’s a joke.

I’ll give you 6 out of your ten. 2nd list really???

Over him. Maybe Goff as he had a great year as even.

?

In comment 16014412 HopePhil and Optimistic said:

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In comment 16014187 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: Sign to a 4-5 year contract (30-35 Million Range) 67.16% (270 votes) Franchise Tag Him 21.64% (87 votes) Let Him Walk 11.19% (45 votes) Nice Sample Size to make the determination that BBI wants Daniel Jones back. Thanks to everyone who voted. JBB, thanks for doing this poll. It's very revealing to see the actual number of fan voices instead of the frequency and volume of the loudest. I hope to see more of these going forward.

It's also a bit revealing that we can't get a better, more compelling debate out of at least some of the 270 posters that voted in this poll to give Jones a long term deal.

Or the idea that tons of posters on BBI are unfairly critical of Jones when only some portion, and no more than, 11% would seem to even carry that sentiment.

In comment 16014429 chick310 said:

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In comment 16014412 HopePhil and Optimistic said: Quote: In comment 16014187 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: Sign to a 4-5 year contract (30-35 Million Range) 67.16% (270 votes) Franchise Tag Him 21.64% (87 votes) Let Him Walk 11.19% (45 votes) Nice Sample Size to make the determination that BBI wants Daniel Jones back. Thanks to everyone who voted. JBB, thanks for doing this poll. It's very revealing to see the actual number of fan voices instead of the frequency and volume of the loudest. I hope to see more of these going forward. It's also a bit revealing that we can't get a better, more compelling debate out of at least some of the 270 posters that voted in this poll to give Jones a long term deal. Or the idea that tons of posters on BBI are unfairly critical of Jones when only some portion, and no more than, 11% would seem to even carry that sentiment.

You’re not getting enough Jones debate???

In comment 16013670 Tom from LI said:

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if not here, somewhere else. North of 40...

If that's the number, the tag is a no brainer.

If DJ's AAV creeps above $40M, that means that either his y1 cap hit is already at or above the tag value, or there are potentially painful $50M+ years on the back end.

Fans should at least acknowledge that the Giants have the ability to effectively suppress DJ's market. All the talk of "I'd gladly take the two 1st round picks on the non-exclusive franchise tag" is silly, IMO. I don't see anyone giving DJ $200M on top of giving the Giants their next two 1st round picks.

DJ's a really curious case because he's better (and younger) than most established starting QBs who actually do hit free agency (most QBs that put up better numbers than DJ never hit free agency, and most that hit free agency are either busts, journeymen, or aging retreads), but and I'm sure he has significant value in a free market, which would command either a large contract OR a big trade haul. I just don't think DJ has done enough so far (even acknowledging that the limitations on his production have been largely outside of his control) to be worth BOTH a blockbuster trade haul AND a massive free agent contract.

If the Giants aren't offering $40M AAV, DJ's not getting $40M AAV, IMO. I think there are a number of factors that could lead to DJ achieving a $40M AAV contract, but it would only come from the Giants unless DJ somehow hits the open market unencumbered by a tag. And if that were to happen, I'd say that falls under "let him walk" which I don't see happening.

In comment 16013971 Thegratefulhead said:

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A lot of volume so the stats are there but he did not look remotely like the previous year.

He won his division and went to the playoffs. Tampa would be fools to let him go! What if the next guy isn't as good and they take a step backwards?! Their coaches and front office will be run out of town!

Nope, sorry. They are obligated to bring Brady back no matter what because they did qualify for the playoffs. Those are the rules.

In comment 16014422 Carl in CT said:

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I’ll give you 6 out of your ten. 2nd list really???

There isn’t a GM in the entire NFL that would take Jones over Lawrence. None. So that debates ends right there. Prescott had a bad playoff game, but he has a 7 year resume with a ton more success than Jones.

I feel Jones belongs with the guys in the second tier. I’m going to argue with anyone if you feel otherwise.

Right now you are misreading the market... There is greater demand than supply.. if 4 QBs get drafted -2 maybe starters right away. Geno is going to stay in SEA, Brady has 1 or 2 spots that would work for him if he leaves TB. Carr i agree but he also has a rep of not getting it done.. Jimmy G -while quality is a known -hes not dependable. Aaron to Jets, opens yet another possibility.. But is DC hires Schurmur before deal gets done with Dan -his prc gets a big bump. Schoen knows this.

Tag will not work -it ties up their cap.

How this plays out will not only be fascinating it will also give us some insight into the GM. For me, I want Schoen to be able to set HIS value and stick to it. The hell with what the market is for other teams. The idea is to build a championship contender long term. The question he needs to ask himself is how much can they pay this particular player and still be able to put a championship team around him within the confines of the cap. I don’t give a damn what the Panthers or Commanders are willing to pay him. That should have less than zero to do with what the Giants are ultimately willing to pay him. Following “the market” and overpaying players simply because some other team may be willing to go that high is a terrible way to conduct business. This has to be 100% about the New York Giants. Set a number that you can live with and stick to it. If Jones can make more on the open market, more power to him and whatever team he goes to.

is really back loaded, the cap hit is going to be near the tag number of 31ish million.

Back loading merely means you push off the cap hit to a future year. take your cap hit now, or take it later. it is still going to hit, sooner or later.

The shorter the contract, the more likely the cap hit in year one is near the tag number.

Jones won't want a long deal unless the dollars are there.

Any way you slice it, if Jones returns, he'll have a serious cap hit. I would not be afraid of the tag. His AAV salary will be over that number.

Option 1: Probably the better $30M+ option due to flexibility in contract design

Option 2: Not flexible, but has a one year out if Jones regresses (probably remote: team will improve a bit, another year under same offense . . . not saying NY is going 15-3 in 2023, but hopefully a small bump in winning %). If he improves then what? multi-year deal will be more $$$ most likely.

Option 3: It's kind of the "tight-wad" approach . . . just pick another guy that will not cost much (if done in April it will be day 2 or 3) and team will regress a bit in 2023 (may-25% or may not-75% work out). Go with a bridge and get serious in 2024 draft. Not saying I'm an expert, but you can see my handle above (live in SoCal). Watch all the USC games - Caleb Williams as a college QB has a lot in common with Jalen Hurts. Hurts maybe a little better runner, Williams maybe a little better passer. Similar size, great in games they should win, a little shakier against good competition, etc. He's good, but not the Second Coming of the Almighty.

He is going to get a little more than most of us want. It is what is. Cap will go up though.