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BBI myth about Tyre Phillips' effectiveness

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/25/2023 1:55 pm
Full disclosure. I think the guy was a gamble as a pick-up. He's big, powerful, and young. However, there seems to be somewhat of a myth among BBI posters that Phillips played well as a Giant.

He played in 12 games with five starts, including four games at right tackle when Evan Neal was out and the regular-season finale at left tackle.

Here are Sy's reviews:

(Seahawks - was voted a dud) -Tyre Phillips, the fill-in at right tackle for rookie Evan Neal, had a poor game, the lowest grade on the line. He was flagged for two false starts (common in Seattle when the crowd is in it) and he also allowed both a pressure and a sack. His gap-blocking in the running game was the one positive, but he struggled mightily on outside-zone runs. He appeared to be confused and slow to react.

(Texans) -Right tackle Tyre Phillips had a few bad looks. He allowed a sack, a TFL, and was flagged for a false start. His game looks very “all or nothing.” He has tremendous power and size, but if the accuracy is not there, he is an easy guy to beat.

(Lions) On the other side, Tyre Phillips had to be relieved by Matt Peart because of a neck injury. Phillips allowed a pressure before departing and Peart struggled with 2 pressures and a TFL. His hands were all over the place and it threw off his body control.

(Cowboys) -The right side was responsible for four pressures (2 each by Mark Glowinski and Tyre Phillips). Glowinksi also allowed a 0.5 TFL and Phillips was called for a crucial penalty that came from him aimlessly working his way downfield for no reason on a passing play. I liked what I saw out of him as a run blocker though and I wonder if there is any thought on him returning to guard when Neal comes back. Not as a starter, but as an immediate backup if needed.

(Eagles) -Tyre Phillips got the start at left tackle, while Andrew Thomas was inactive. He allowed four pressures, and all things considered, was not bad. I will not label it a victory for the third-year veteran, but his run-blocking performance did help his overall grade a bit.


******

BTW, although he has a built-in excuse for missing all of the spring and summer, as well as half the season, in the two games that he did see extensive snaps, Peart played like crap.
Tackle  
Hilary : 1/25/2023 2:04 pm : link
Tackle is a huge need. IOL
Is considered a huge need.
Giants may have Gates and or Feliciano (free agents)
Bredeson Glowinski and the two rookies from
North Carolina. If Neal does not improve or if Neal
or Thomas gets injured Giants are not going to improve.
RE: Tackle  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/25/2023 2:07 pm : link
In comment 16013727 Hilary said:
Quote:
Tackle is a huge need. IOL
Is considered a huge need.
Giants may have Gates and or Feliciano (free agents)
Bredeson Glowinski and the two rookies from
North Carolina. If Neal does not improve or if Neal
or Thomas gets injured Giants are not going to improve.


The Giants are not going to move Neal in 2023.
It’s interesting  
bmgints : 1/25/2023 2:09 pm : link
While they certainly could use an upgrade in the interior oline, if players come back healthy and hopefully gates improves further out from injury there at least a number of guys that should compete. The tackle situation is scary bc there really isn’t any depth for competition
RE: RE: Tackle  
allstarjim : 1/25/2023 2:12 pm : link
In comment 16013731 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16013727 Hilary said:


Quote:


Tackle is a huge need. IOL
Is considered a huge need.
Giants may have Gates and or Feliciano (free agents)
Bredeson Glowinski and the two rookies from
North Carolina. If Neal does not improve or if Neal
or Thomas gets injured Giants are not going to improve.



The Giants are not going to move Neal in 2023.


Was going to say this. Neal is the RT of the future until he's not. When is the potential that he will not be? If he doesn't improve year 2, unless there's a mitigating factor like playing with an injury, then you have to start planning for real competition at the spot. But Eric is right, 2023 season, it's Neal again at RT, I still feel confident he can develop into one of the better tackles in the game.

I get it, we all wanted more. With OL, the bad plays always stick out more than the good plays, and I've seen enough of him that I don't believe there's any physical traits holding him back, it's just consistency and technique. So you have to trust the coaching staff they will continue to work with him and get better results, because the raw material is very high quality, much better than most rookie tackles.
He isn’t a tackle…  
BigBlueDawg56 : 1/25/2023 2:13 pm : link
He will be a really good guard. We need to find a swing tackle. Between Phillips mckethan ezeudu glow we are fine at guard.
If Neal does not improve is a valid question  
chick310 : 1/25/2023 2:14 pm : link
but not this offseason.

Schoen has to make sure he has a reasonable bench at OT for injury purposes, but Neal is the starting Right Tackle for 2023 folks. And it's not debatable.

If next January you feel the same about him as you do now because he isn't showing better, then a different plan might have to go into place (presuming Schoen/Daboll feel the same).


Eric: You think those reviews are bad?  
WillieYoung : 1/25/2023 2:31 pm : link
Why don't you find some Nate Solder circa 2020 or Eric Flowers circa 2017? Phillips played 5 games and didn't fall apart or get manhandled in any of them. He played ahead of Hamilton, who the Giants were high on, and Peart who is a passable NFL tackle (If we release Peart, he'll be around the league for a while, as a borderline starter, just like Bobby Hart).
It's the planet theory. There are only so many guys capable of playing NFL tackle. If you have 3 or 4 of them, don't be stupid wasting draft capital on trying to get another one.
i pulled neal's stats from another thread but here are phillips #  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2023 2:39 pm : link
just to compare (also threw in Solder just to .

Phillips 22 (199 pass block snaps) = 3 sacks, 4 penalties, 16 hurries
Neal 22 (453 pass block snaps) = 7 sacks, 7 penalties, 39 hurries
Solder 21 (586 pass block snaps) = 6 sacks, 6 penalties, 36 hurries

so in terms of per play production, it looks like he was pretty close to the same as neal, and both were actually a little worse than solder last year (who was obviously brutal).

so it shouldnt really be a surprise all 3 ranked as poorly as they did.
Wasnt the report on him  
John In CO : 1/25/2023 2:42 pm : link
from Baltimore that he might be a decent guard, but pretty much stunk up the joint as an OT? I recall wondering why we were seeing him out at OT instead of inside at OG.
If there was a myth about Phillips, I didn’t hear it. Phillips is what  
Ivan15 : 1/25/2023 2:52 pm : link
He is - a backup o-lineman. He may be able to backup at Guard and Tackle but he didn’t have that opportunity at guard. He might even be a starter at guard. Giants need to find out. I actually was surprised he beat out Hamilton for swing tackle who showed pretty well, I thought.

Almost definitely, he will be on the 90-man roster if he wants to be. He may not make the 53 but, after the draft, the Giants will have to sort out the guards and tackles to see what they have.

Peart is completely different. Impressive physically, but he doesn’t grab the opportunities he has been given. Same as with Phillips, they need to find out if Peart can play somewhere (G or T). Unless they want to save a little cap space by cutting Peart, he will be in camp on the 90-man roster.
I am assuming Peart is done  
.McL. : 1/25/2023 2:53 pm : link
with the Giants

Another present bestowed by our former GM who just keeps giving gifts...
RE: I am assuming Peart is done  
.McL. : 1/25/2023 2:53 pm : link
In comment 16013806 .McL. said:
Quote:
with the Giants

Another present bestowed by our former GM who just keeps giving gifts...

More accurately, the Giants are done with Peart.
Neal  
Hilary : 1/25/2023 2:56 pm : link
Neal will be given a full
shot at RT but a third tackle
is a must in case he plays
poorly or there is an injury
RE: Eric: You think those reviews are bad?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/25/2023 2:57 pm : link
In comment 16013767 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
Why don't you find some Nate Solder circa 2020 or Eric Flowers circa 2017? Phillips played 5 games and didn't fall apart or get manhandled in any of them. He played ahead of Hamilton, who the Giants were high on, and Peart who is a passable NFL tackle (If we release Peart, he'll be around the league for a while, as a borderline starter, just like Bobby Hart).
It's the planet theory. There are only so many guys capable of playing NFL tackle. If you have 3 or 4 of them, don't be stupid wasting draft capital on trying to get another one.


I'm not "giving up" on either Neal or Phillips (though this is Phillips' second team). What I'm trying to dispel was the myth that the line would have been better with Phillips at right tackle.
this is another area  
Dave on the UWS : 1/25/2023 2:59 pm : link
that will need to be upgraded. The Giants worked Mcketham some at RT in camp. Ezeudu can also play out there (he did at NC), so there are some "possibilities" already on the roster. Schoen will keep slugging away, reducing the number of "problem areas" as he goes.
RE: Neal  
Ira : 1/25/2023 3:00 pm : link
In comment 16013818 Hilary said:
Quote:
Neal will be given a full
shot at RT but a third tackle
is a must in case he plays
poorly or there is an injury


I agree. We can't be sure that Neal is going to develop into a good tackle. He hasn't shown enough to this point.
I kept hearing rumblings about  
Biteymax22 : 1/25/2023 3:03 pm : link
moving Neal to guard. Truth be told Phillips was the guy I watched and kept asking myself if he'd do better inside.
I was gonna say...  
Dnew15 : 1/25/2023 3:14 pm : link
Phillips wasn't good...but his reports were glowing when comparing them to Peart. What a bust he has become.

He's not long for this roster.
As  
AcidTest : 1/25/2023 3:20 pm : link
others have said, and those reports indicate, Phillips should be a guard. He is 6'5" and 330. Very few human beings that size are agile enough to deal with the speed of NFL DEs and OLBs. Peart isn't. Neal might not be either, but that's too early to tell, especially since this was the first time he played RT since high school or his first year at Alabama IIRC.

The question is whether Phillips has enough agility to play guard. I'm not sure of that either, because if he does, then why did the Ravens release him? But I agree that is where they should try and play him.

We definitely need a third tackle.
We all probably can name the top 10 o-linemen. Picking the starting 5  
Ivan15 : 1/25/2023 3:22 pm : link
Is much more difficult. Lemieux is the wildcard since he was penciled in as a starter by 2 different coaching staffs.
IMO Neal will be fine.  
TheBlueprintNC : 1/25/2023 3:57 pm : link
he had a bad ankle and shoulder -first yr in NFL 8 games against top 5 Defensive Lines too not to mention Rookie Wall. A good offseason and he will be ready to go.
I get what you’re saying  
Breeze_94 : 1/25/2023 4:27 pm : link
Phillips was far from good. But then again he’s a 3rd tackle- so ideally he doesn’t even see the field. If he does, I thought he was adequate enough. I don’t think swing tackle is a huge priority, but would be nice to find a guy for vet min money or a late round pick
He was ok  
ElitoCanton : 1/25/2023 4:35 pm : link
as far as backup tackles go. Most teams are screwed if their starting tackle misses time. He held his own and wasn't an utter disaster.
See Scouting Reports - Phillips  
Bob in Newburgh : 1/25/2023 6:05 pm : link
Lacks outside movement skills for pass pro at OT, but is a nice projection to a power OG.
I don’t think it’s a myth  
RetroJint : 1/25/2023 10:39 pm : link
To say that Neal wasn’t much better than Phillips. I mean Neal got all the snaps in camp. He was handed the job. Phillips came in off the street once the season had begun . And with all of that it was a toss up in my opinion . Somebody was always detailing a new injury for Neal. Howard Cross (Bama Central) says he had a bad knee that wouldn’t allow him to slide his fleet properly . We have a wrist above and the neck, which was this season’s team-wide injury .

Neal will get every chance next year to prove that he’s not going to be a turnstile when he plays the Cowboys and Eagles . I hope he does . And I’m generally optimistic. about his fortunes . Just saying , in my opinion, there wasn’t much to distinguish the play of Neal and Phillips this season .
So Phillips was equally as bad as Neal  
kelly : 1/26/2023 5:34 am : link
Neal the 7 the pick in the entire draft. Doesn't make me feel real good about right tackle for next year.

What is plan B especially considering Neal showed absolutely no improvement over the course of the year.

Neal has been very disappointing. So having played o line all these years suddenly his balance and foot work are going to take a quantum leap. I hope so but I doubt it.

Who ever is scouting o line for the Giants has done a terrible job over the years.
RE: Eric: You think those reviews are bad?  
Angel Eyes : 1/26/2023 8:41 am : link
In comment 16013767 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
Why don't you find some Nate Solder circa 2020 or Eric Flowers circa 2017? Phillips played 5 games and didn't fall apart or get manhandled in any of them. He played ahead of Hamilton, who the Giants were high on, and Peart who is a passable NFL tackle (If we release Peart, he'll be around the league for a while, as a borderline starter, just like Bobby Hart).
It's the planet theory. There are only so many guys capable of playing NFL tackle. If you have 3 or 4 of them, don't be stupid wasting draft capital on trying to get another one.

Solder didn't play in 2020.
Neal is the RT for a full off-season and hopefully, we will see a jump  
George from PA : 1/26/2023 8:47 am : link
I say....all 3 interior spots should be open competition with what we have and some additions.

The OL must become a strength....if we want to jump to the top of the NFC East.
RE: Eric: You think those reviews are bad?  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2023 1:48 pm : link
In comment 16013767 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
Why don't you find some Nate Solder circa 2020 or Eric Flowers circa 2017? Phillips played 5 games and didn't fall apart or get manhandled in any of them. He played ahead of Hamilton, who the Giants were high on, and Peart who is a passable NFL tackle (If we release Peart, he'll be around the league for a while, as a borderline starter, just like Bobby Hart).
It's the planet theory. There are only so many guys capable of playing NFL tackle. If you have 3 or 4 of them, don't be stupid wasting draft capital on trying to get another one.

I don't think you are interpreting "the planet theory" in the way that it was intended.
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