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A Question(s) about our scouting as it relates to '22 draft

Dinger : 1/25/2023 3:20 pm
I was going to write a review about our 2022 draft, but I'm sure a number of those will pop up in the coming days/weeks. I was going to voice my extreme disappointment with the Wandale Robinson pick from the start(we reached for a gadget guy when we had one on the roster). But it got me thinking, do we look at that pick as a reflection on Brendan Prophett, our scout for the Mid-West(If its considered another region pick that scout). Is this something that Schoen is still reviewing(scouting department that is)? Do we give credit to D.J. Boisture in the West for finding a great 4th rounder in Daniel Bellinger? It seems they liked the judgement of whoever scouted NC as we picked two OL. Is that Marcus Cooper? I know these are group discussion/decisions but there are regional scouts for a reason and I wonder how often they are reviewed and released or promoted for the draft picks and UDFAs or their talent evaluation. BTW, I was disappointed in the '22 draft class from a production standpoint, but I've watched long enough to know that 1 year does not an all-pro make.
That pick was a huge head scratcher for me  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2023 3:23 pm : link
with Alec Pierce and George Pickens on the board still.
Giants fans are delusional  
TheBlueprintNC : 1/25/2023 3:25 pm : link
if they think that draft was anything less than a homerun.. We got 4 good to great potential starters and really nice depth while building a team
very excited going into this draft  
TheBlueprintNC : 1/25/2023 3:27 pm : link
with 9 to 11 picks and some room to maneuver
Gadget Guy?  
HMunster : 1/25/2023 3:27 pm : link
The man had over 100 receptions for 1,300 yards in the SEC.

Know what you're talking about before regurgitating some "draft guru" nonsense about reaches.
RE: Giants fans are delusional  
giantBCP : 1/25/2023 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16013862 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
if they think that draft was anything less than a homerun.. We got 4 good to great potential starters and really nice depth while building a team


Considering the amount of draft capital that we had, it was a below average draft. OT was a huge need, and it’s looking like we got the worst one taken in the first round at 7, when we could have had our pick of the litter. Wide receiver was also a massive need, and we missed out on the offensive rookie of the year in Garrett Wilson.

PFF Grades
Trevor Penning 73.6 (124 snaps)
Tyler Smith 71.4 (1144 snaps)
Ikem Ekwonu 65.3 (1018 snaps)
Charles Cros 63.7 (1088 snaps)
Evan Neal 44.0 (738 snaps)
Robinson was starting to come on a bit before getting hurt  
Sean : 1/25/2023 3:36 pm : link
.
...  
christian : 1/25/2023 3:40 pm : link
It's almost as if a bunch of draft picks got hurt.
Daboll wanted him  
ZogZerg : 1/25/2023 3:46 pm : link
Schoen dropped back a couple of times and then grabbed him.

....  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2023 3:54 pm : link
When he was out there, I think Ezeudu showed that at minimum, he can be a nice starter
RE: That pick was a huge head scratcher for me  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/25/2023 4:09 pm : link
In comment 16013860 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
with Alec Pierce and George Pickens on the board still.


Weren't there also some good ILBs? Not like Philly completely exploited that.

Hopefully the bloom is off the rose of copy Buffalo formula mantra.
To answer the question  
Colin@gbn : 1/25/2023 4:28 pm : link
Danger: As a general rule the Giants try and visit every major program three times over the course of the season by different scouts. As well, position coaches will also grade most of the prospects at their respective position. Plus for guys at least in the top 100 at least one senior personnel person will also provide an analysis. And for a top prospect like Neal you may ultimately get 8-10 people providing input. So no you do not get just one scout providing the analysis.
RE: RE: Giants fans are delusional  
HMunster : 1/25/2023 4:30 pm : link
In comment 16013883 giantBCP said:
Quote:
In comment 16013862 TheBlueprintNC said:


Quote:


if they think that draft was anything less than a homerun.. We got 4 good to great potential starters and really nice depth while building a team



Considering the amount of draft capital that we had, it was a below average draft. OT was a huge need, and it’s looking like we got the worst one taken in the first round at 7, when we could have had our pick of the litter. Wide receiver was also a massive need, and we missed out on the offensive rookie of the year in Garrett Wilson.

PFF Grades
Trevor Penning 73.6 (124 snaps)
Tyler Smith 71.4 (1144 snaps)
Ikem Ekwonu 65.3 (1018 snaps)
Charles Cros 63.7 (1088 snaps)
Evan Neal 44.0 (738 snaps)

You can stop already. You've already won the trophy for shittiest takes on BBI.
PFF grades showing you that Neal  
giantBCP : 1/25/2023 4:34 pm : link
performed the worst of any tackle taken in the first round is a “shitty take”? Why so defensive?

WR was a huge need going into the draft, and it was apparent that WR had a high positional value, with all of the megadeals and trades that we’ve recently seen, and we missed out on the OROY.
Like most jobs, except for sales, if you do your job, you won’t get  
Ivan15 : 1/25/2023 4:41 pm : link
Fired. Also, because scouting is pretty subjective no matter how you try to score, rate and rank players, the Giants have enough oversight and cross scouting so that you have to be a complete screwup to lose your job. I guess if you spend your time in the local strip joint instead of scouting, or you go to the game because you want to scope out the cheerleaders, you might lose your job. Also, leaks about potential draft picks might get you fired.
RE: Gadget Guy?  
Dinger : 1/25/2023 5:00 pm : link
In comment 16013871 HMunster said:
Quote:
The man had over 100 receptions for 1,300 yards in the SEC.

Know what you're talking about before regurgitating some "draft guru" nonsense about reaches.

So Herman, you quote two numbers and I should consider you a draft guru??! I know what I saw on the field, when he could stay on it. An undersized lesser version of maybe Sterling Sheppard. But thats the problem. He's a small receiver and he's taking another step up into a league with larger faster players. If you want to get into numbers, he played 1 year in the SEC coming from Nebraska. Besides those stellar numbers you put up he rushed 7 times for 111 yards and had 6 punt returns for 20 yards. He's 5'11' 185 pounds. You know who else played in the SEC? Kadarius Toney. STFU with your ' he played in the SEC so he must be good' BS. He's an undersized receiver who the VAST MAJORITY agree was a reach in the 2nd round. The Giants didn't need another undersized receiver. They had Toney Sheppard and a recently signed Richie James. They needed size at WR. I didn't want to get into the whole I like him you don't about draft picks and wanted to understand who we think would be the scout who said Robinson is a must have and we should take him way earlier than he is likely to go? Heck I hope he turns into a great asset, gadget player or not. But he came in and did exactly what the draft guru's said. He undersized and got hurt. Reality bites.
RE: To answer the question  
eli4life : 1/25/2023 5:18 pm : link
In comment 16013970 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Danger: As a general rule the Giants try and visit every major program three times over the course of the season by different scouts. As well, position coaches will also grade most of the prospects at their respective position. Plus for guys at least in the top 100 at least one senior personnel person will also provide an analysis. And for a top prospect like Neal you may ultimately get 8-10 people providing input. So no you do not get just one scout providing the analysis.


Good to know and wouldn’t be surprised to find out that schoens system is light years ahead of the past regimes
RE: RE: Gadget Guy?  
RCPhoenix : 1/25/2023 5:20 pm : link
In comment 16014002 Dinger said:
Quote:
In comment 16013871 HMunster said:


Quote:


The man had over 100 receptions for 1,300 yards in the SEC.

Know what you're talking about before regurgitating some "draft guru" nonsense about reaches.


So Herman, you quote two numbers and I should consider you a draft guru??! I know what I saw on the field, when he could stay on it. An undersized lesser version of maybe Sterling Sheppard. But thats the problem. He's a small receiver and he's taking another step up into a league with larger faster players. If you want to get into numbers, he played 1 year in the SEC coming from Nebraska. Besides those stellar numbers you put up he rushed 7 times for 111 yards and had 6 punt returns for 20 yards. He's 5'11' 185 pounds. You know who else played in the SEC? Kadarius Toney. STFU with your ' he played in the SEC so he must be good' BS. He's an undersized receiver who the VAST MAJORITY agree was a reach in the 2nd round. The Giants didn't need another undersized receiver. They had Toney Sheppard and a recently signed Richie James. They needed size at WR. I didn't want to get into the whole I like him you don't about draft picks and wanted to understand who we think would be the scout who said Robinson is a must have and we should take him way earlier than he is likely to go? Heck I hope he turns into a great asset, gadget player or not. But he came in and did exactly what the draft guru's said. He undersized and got hurt. Reality bites.


You know who else is small? Devonta Smith.

Wan'dale Robinson's ACL tear has nothing to do with his height or weight. It has to do with the crappy playing surface at MetLife.
SCOUTING QUESTION  
Payasdaddy : 1/25/2023 5:42 pm : link
Didnt shown have to use previous regime scouts in last draft?
and do we have a new crew this yr?
RE: Robinson was starting to come on a bit before getting hurt  
OX100 : 1/25/2023 5:58 pm : link
In comment 16013887 Sean said:
Quote:
.


You mean hurt again, and that is why they should not have taken him
Fantasy Land - Comparing D Smith size to Robinson  
Bob in Newburgh : 1/25/2023 5:58 pm : link
WanDale is legitimately sub 5'9".

For the record, from day 1 I thought it was a stupid, poorly thought out pick for this team with the personnel package he was drafted into.

Two possible caveats are that braintrust legitimately believed that Golladay was the player he used to be and that Toney was already ticketed out of here, or was a mere tweak from being a normal outside WR.
I was disappointed witht WanDale pick as well, but that doesn't mean  
rasbutant : 1/25/2023 8:01 pm : link
he isn't a good player. I'm excited to see what he can do next year.

The guy I really wanted ended up injured as well, stuff happens. Andrew Booth. I also would have been really happy with Jalen Pitre or Arnold Ebiketie. After the last trade down it would have been David Ojabo. The draft is fun, but I'm pretty sure most of us would fail at it.
I wasn't a big fan either at the time he was picked  
Andy in Halifax : 1/26/2023 7:29 am : link
but at some point after it came out that the Chiefs were very interested in him and ended up taking Skyy Moore shortly after so it kinda checks out. The Rams also wanted him but didn't have the draft capital to get him. That's two of the more advanced offensive teams in the league that had their eyes on Robinson.

It could be that teams are valuing his attributes a bit more now than previously. Or maybe its a swing and a miss. But you seem to have made your scathing review the moment he was drafted because you didn't like the pick. I'd give it a bit more time.
Given that the Giants lacked even a foundation at WR  
Bob in Newburgh : 1/26/2023 10:26 am : link
Picking a smurf as initial piece was stupid, even if he eventually works out.

KC certainly had foundation in place and could well afford a gadget player as luxury piece. What is smart for one organization is stupid for another given each respective set of circumstances.
Revisionist history  
RomanWH : 1/26/2023 11:11 am : link
WR wasn't a huge need going into this past season. The team was paying big money to Golladay, a first round WR in Toney, both Shepard and Slayton under contract... WR became a huge need after a bunch of things happened: Golladay was ineffective, Toney wanted out and was traded, Shep tore his ACL after playing well in the early part of the season...

The front office and Dabs really likes Wan'Dale and had big plans for him(Schoen even said as much after he drafted him). He was really coming on before his injury vs Detroit(9 catches for 100 yards, 57 of which were YAC).

Now granted I also really wanted Pickens coming out of Georgia. Thought he could grow into a legit #1 type guy. But Robinson's production in the SEC as Kentucky's #1 WR cannot be ignored. I trust Schoen. Injuries happen so we'll see how Robinson does when he comes back.

Btw, Pickens also tore his ACL. It was back in college and he had limited production when he came back. (2021: Only caught 5 passes for 107 yrds for the season). Some front offices were probably weary of how the injury affected him.
I claim to know far less than any expert...so when a pick  
George from PA : 1/26/2023 11:22 am : link
Like W.Robsinson get selected.....I was hoping for Pickens....that ended up in Pittsburgh.

I try to find why.

He was a stud in the SEC....quick more than fast....reliable hands....and the Giants got what he showed in college.

Granted....got hurt at the time he start to flourish.

I feel too many if us....have false expectations from the draft.....I know plenty of injuries....but this was a great for the Giants.

Possibly a starting Edge, RT, Slot WR, TE, G, slot corner and MLB.

7 possible starters.....and you are disappointed.


Wow
WR was a significant need if you were aware  
JonC : 1/26/2023 11:31 am : link
that KG looked a shell of his former self, Shep is fragile, and Toney was a nutter well on his way out.

That was precisely a good spot to insert WR talent from the draft. Get out in front of the pipeline for a change, stop making reactionary picks, and don't focus so heavily on the season at hand!
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