Im genuinely curious to understand what is the argument for not giving Jones the non-exclusive tag at 1 yr 31.7 mil?
Understand that this tag allows the Giants matching rights to any deal Jones signs with another team and if he receives an offer that the Giants wouldn’t want they receive 2 first round picks from that team.
Please understand that the so called “poison pill” contracts are no longer allowed.
“an NFL rule change that’s now applicable to every restricted free agent and every player slapped with the transition tag. The Hutchinson Rule, some called it. The relevant language states, “No Offer Sheet may contain a Principal Term that would create rights or obligations for the Old Club that differ in any way (including but not limited to the amount of compensation that would be paid, the circumstances in which compensation would be guaranteed, or the circumstances in which other contractual rights would or would not vest) from the rights or obligations that such Principal Term would create for the Club extending the Offer Sheet (i.e., no ‘poison pills’).”
https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2022/05/20/nfl-poison-pill-contract-holmgren-hutchinson
Teams that might have interest in Jones
Carolina
Atlanta
Jets
Raiders
Washington (reports seem like they are saying Howell is their guy)
Tampa Bay
Saints
Maybe others?
These would be some fairly high picks potentially.
But what advantage is to the Giants to sign Jones for more years and more money? (Not many believe that he will get less than 31.7 aav)
Even if the Giants tag Jones this year, they still maintain the ability to tag him in future and/or sign him to a multiyear deal.
Why give Jones some kind of 3 yr 100 mil deal (on low end) or 5 year 175 mil deal or worst case 5 yr 200 mil deal?
Things to consider- it is only one good season, he had previously missed games for injury in his prior 5 seasons going back to college, he runs alot and does sustain some big hits, etc
What is the advantage to the Giants?
Pretty much this. Tagging DJ limits what the team can do financially this season.
BlackLight is saying that if you do the tag this year, it creates a huge $32.5M hold on your cap (there is no bonus proration or other shenanigans you can use to lower the cap hit) and may hinder your flexibility to make other moves.
It's a risk but it cost Dallas more as they should have let him walk. Yes it a top tier QB but paid like one. Their widow is closing really fast. Give the. Credit for drafting Parsons but they are now seriously over paying a guy who is not worth what he paid.
The QB market needs a correction. At some point you Gms and owners need to grow some balls. Nooks Jones but giving him some stupid contract is dumb. If you do the on exclusive tag you have to assume he's gone the next year pretty much. Brock Purdy beat Dak. To many QBs are just solid and paid like they are HOFers
Let's hope Jones gets done reasonably but can't be afraid to move on
Another good reason. Especially after you declined his option.
Also if some does want Jones and you believe the Giants also want him you take the negotiations out of your hands and give another team power to dictate the terms of the deal which could be front loaded or more guaranteed.
What if that team is SF, Jets, or Seattle and you are getting 2 obviously mid to late first round picks?
Both of these are speculative, what are you basing this on? Dak signed his extension in Mar 2021, the year prior he played 5 games because of the bad foot/ankle injury sustained against the Giants. If they had signed him in the 2020 offseason, he was coming off a 4,900 yard, 30-11 TD-INT ratio as a 65% passer. Do you believe the market moved that much in one offseason, or that the 5 games he played in 2020 were enough to earn him more money?
The benefit is you get another year to see what DJ can do with a bolstered offense (hopefully), and potentially save yourself from over-valuing the player based on this season. Your latter point is well-taken, but if DJ earns a higher contract from better performance, it's a good problem. In this case, I believe the risk outweighs the potential savings if he earns more with his play next season.
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it seldom works out well, unless it just to buy time as part of the negotiation
Another good reason. Especially after you declined his option.
Pretty much this.
They declined his option. He then went and won 9 games, took them to the playoffs and won the Wildcard game - the first time the Giants did that since 2011. And now you're going to tag him?
You're basically telling Jones you don't want him on the team, but are stuck because there are no good QB's in FA and you pick too low in the draft.
It hasn't been discussed, and I don't think DJ is the type of player to do this, but under that circumstance, why should he play under the tag? The Giants will look foolish in the media and NY in general.
You can't worry about hurt feelings.
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In comment 16014026 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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it seldom works out well, unless it just to buy time as part of the negotiation
Another good reason. Especially after you declined his option.
Pretty much this.
They declined his option. He then went and won 9 games, took them to the playoffs and won the Wildcard game - the first time the Giants did that since 2011. And now you're going to tag him?
You're basically telling Jones you don't want him on the team, but are stuck because there are no good QB's in FA and you pick too low in the draft.
It hasn't been discussed, and I don't think DJ is the type of player to do this, but under that circumstance, why should he play under the tag? The Giants will look foolish in the media and NY in general.
Why should Jones play under the tag? Are you serious? Because those are the rules. Sure Jones can hold out, that would be hilarious after people touted how much of a great, tough guy he is and how much of a team player he is. Yea.. 32 million dollars isn't enough for Daniel Jones to follow through on his obligations. That's basically what you are saying.
this time next year, if jones puts together a hurts type passing improvement, he's going to get tagged at an amount close to 46m for 2024 and the negotiating price for an extension is going to be easily north of 46m per year and guaranteed money probably north of 200m because he is going to be the rare pro bowl qb in his prime less than 1 year from hitting the open market.
im not saying he will put up the hurts year but if he does he will be in position to beat the Watson contract. he will have that much leverage and maybe more.
so if the 2 tags are going to cost $80m the next 2 years, guaranteeing 100m or so to get some extra UFA years at a rate well under Kyler is a gamble worth considering.
this time next year, if jones puts together a hurts type passing improvement, he's going to get tagged at an amount close to 46m for 2024 and the negotiating price for an extension is going to be easily north of 46m per year and guaranteed money probably north of 200m because he is going to be the rare pro bowl qb in his prime less than 1 year from hitting the open market.
im not saying he will put up the hurts year but if he does he will be in position to beat the Watson contract. he will have that much leverage and maybe more.
so if the 2 tags are going to cost $80m the next 2 years, guaranteeing 100m or so to get some extra UFA years at a rate well under Kyler is a gamble worth considering.
Dude. If Jones puts up a Hurts type improvement, nobody will care. And on top of that Jones will probably ask for more money down the road, anyway. Jones playing at Hurts' level from this season isn't a risk, it's a best case scenario.
The FT is a last resort. It is sub optimal for the team because of the uncertainty at the most important position. It is sub optimal for the player because of injury risk. I think the FT is quite likely, especially if DJ does not want to play here, which I think is much more likely than people seem to think.
I'm not sure what will happen, but one way or another, I think Jones will be here next year unless some team really makes him an incredible offer. A lot depends on how much Jones values and ties his improvement to Daboll's coaching.
If Jones turns out to be a franchise QB, they’re ripping up whatever contract he signed this spring before it’s up anyway. They’ll have to pay market cost no matter what.
lol a slap in the face. Cmon take the emotions out of it. If Jones gets tagged the next time around he’s signing a contract for the most money whether it’s the Giants or someone else.
$100MM guaranteed 5 yr deal with the last 2 yrs essentially team options,and I was sold until I saw what Purdy and Hurts and Burrow have been able to accomplish on rookie contracts.
Now this gambit only works if you surround the QB with weapons a line to block and a solid D.
Can this be done?
If so how long will it take?
Even the great Belichick has struggled with his rookie QB...
My sense is no one will give up 2 1st round picks for the ability to pay DJ alot of money for 1 yr,certainly not a team that is rebuilding.
So it comes down to DJ or not to DJ for 3 yrs.....
Plus it buys them another year to find an alternative. I am stunned at how many want to overpay for a middling QB like Jones. Every team that does that regrets it.
If he takes a big jump next year with better receivers then ok we can sign him long term. Otherwise we maintain cap flexibility to bolster the roster elsewhere until we find our next guy.
Plus it buys them another year to find an alternative. I am stunned at how many want to overpay for a middling QB like Jones. Every team that does that regrets it.
It does kill the cap. It will eat up 75%. The team has too many holes. Im stunned people want to give up on Jones for two draft picks and no answer at QB.
If he takes a big jump next year with better receivers then ok we can sign him long term. Otherwise we maintain cap flexibility to bolster the roster elsewhere until we find our next guy.
tag jones at $32m.
good luck spending another $28m on this FA class. spend more than that and jones 1 year tag is the least of your issues.
and that's to say nothing of the 10m+ they can save on leonard williams (or more if they cut him).
or 5-10m they can save extending adoree jackson if they want (now is the right time to do that).
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The tag is by far the best option. The Giants either get 2 first round picks or get Jones for one more prove it year without killing their cap and locking themselves into a huge contract.
Plus it buys them another year to find an alternative. I am stunned at how many want to overpay for a middling QB like Jones. Every team that does that regrets it.
It does kill the cap. It will eat up 75%. The team has too many holes. Im stunned people want to give up on Jones for two draft picks and no answer at QB.
If he takes a big jump next year with better receivers then ok we can sign him long term. Otherwise we maintain cap flexibility to bolster the roster elsewhere until we find our next guy.
The cap this year is a non issue. They will create a lot more room cutting Golladay and extending Leo and Adoree. What is your plan? Give Jones a $10M salary in the first year? What happens when his cap number balloons to over $50M a year? That is killing the cap.
No answer at QB? I guess that depends on if you think Jones really is the long term answer at QB. I am not convinced. He still has a lot to prove if we are going to pay him $40M a year.
The Eagles won the Superbowl in 2017 because they had the best roster in the NFL. Why? Because Wentz was on his rookie deal. Then they stupidly overpaid him. But to their credit, they hedged with Hurts and were able to flip Wentz for draft picks. Now they once again have the best roster in the NFL.
Paying Hurts will kill their cap too. All I am saying is that overpaying for middle of the Pack QBs (Cowboys, Vikings, Titans, Raiders, etc.) does not work out. Those teams do not win the Superbowl.
Until the NFL does something about the out of control contracts for QBs, I think the smartest organizations will take more of a moneyball approach. Build out a great roster and keep taking swings at QBs until you find a great one.
Doesn’t this create a very small window to win?
Doesn’t this mean we have to spend BIG in FA this season and isnt this considered a down year in FA especially in our areas of need? WR, LB & C/G?
Wasnt Sy analyis that this is more like a 2 more year rebuild of roster?
And the other argument is to pay millions more to a Jones for many seasons so he isnt upset?
$100MM guaranteed 5 yr deal with the last 2 yrs essentially team options,and I was sold until I saw what Purdy and Hurts and Burrow have been able to accomplish on rookie contracts.
Now this gambit only works if you surround the QB with weapons a line to block and a solid D.
Can this be done?
If so how long will it take?
Even the great Belichick has struggled with his rookie QB...
My sense is no one will give up 2 1st round picks for the ability to pay DJ alot of money for 1 yr,certainly not a team that is rebuilding.
So it comes down to DJ or not to DJ for 3 yrs.....
That's not how the tag works. Another team would sign DJ to a long term deal, Giants would have the option to match or get 2 picks in return. You're right in that no one would do that for a one year commitment, it would be only the Giants that would have him on the 1-year deal if nobody offers DJ a multi-year pact.
Isn’t that right around the rumored Barkley number?