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Belichick phased out Joe Judge

RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 11:59 am
2 articles below outline just how inept Judge is as a coach. How Belichick endorsed him initially should be a red flag of his judgment.

Article from NESN
Joe Judge’s return to the Patriots was equally disastrous. According to the Boston Herald’s Andrew Callahan, Judge was “phased out” during New England’s underwhelming campaign, a stark fall from grace after he entered training camp and the preseason with significant duties. It reportedly was commonplace for Judge to draw the ire of Patriots head coach Bill Belichick as well as starting quarterback Mac Jones.
“As Patricia came under outside fire as the face of the offense, Judge drew increasing criticism from within,” Callahan wrote. “Belichick would blast him in practice, and it wasn’t uncommon for Judge and Jones to trade profanity-laced outbursts. Jones’ trust in his position coach was effectively non-existent.”
A source added Jones “didn’t like” the former New York Giants head coach “at all.”
“(Judge) would speak extra loudly in meetings, trying to project like he was the guy,” another source told Callahan. “And I think that kind of rubbed people the wrong way.”
Fortunately for Jones, it doesn’t sound like he’ll have to work with Judge or Patricia in his all-important third NFL season. Bill O’Brien reportedly was hired this week to be the Patriots’ new offensive coordinator and New England’s setup for this year’s Shrine Bowl suggests Patricia and Judge might not be on the team’s coaching staff at all in 2023.

Separate article: Bill Belichick Reportedly Yelled At Joe Judge, Began Phasing Him Out
Joe Judge’s tenure as New York Giants head coach ended poorly, and that seemed to carry over in his return to New England.

The Patriots offensive assistant and quarterbacks coach worked with Matt Patricia and Bill Belichick to help guide the offense and Mac Jones. But the 2022 season was a disaster on that end, and while Patricia has gotten most of the flak, Judge did not receive favorable treatment either.

The 41-year-old assistant reportedly was “phased out” during the season, according to Andrew Callahan and Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald. This marked a steep fall in grace as Judge was expected to command a large role on New England’s staff, and there was potential before the season for the former Giants head coach to rebound from a 4-13 season the year prior.

“Joe Judge, they later suspected, was in a long process of being phased out,” the Boston Herald reported. “It was a stark change from training camp when Judge would command meetings and share the play-call sheet in team periods with Patricia and Belichick. Judge also coached across positions in practice, forcing other assistants to occasionally correct his talking points to players during drills.”
A source added: “I think there were times the coaches were frustrated, especially the ones who had been on staff in years past and knew what we had done.”
Judge reportedly “rubbed people the wrong way” when he would try to exert himself in team meetings, and he also drew the ire of Belichick and Jones, who “didn’t like” the former head coach.
“As Patricia came under outside fire as the face of the offense, Judge drew increasing criticism from within,” the Boston Herald reported. “Belichick would blast him in practice, and it wasn’t uncommon for Judge and Jones to trade profanity-laced outbursts. Jones’ trust in his position coach was effectively non-existent.”
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RE: Judge will rue not taking the Mississippi State Job  
cosmicj : 1/26/2023 1:17 pm : link
In comment 16014830 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Til the day he dies.


At the time of his hire, I suggested thar Judge should take the Miss St job for lifestyle reasons.

Cue Clint Eastwood, “A Man’s gotta know his own limitations.”
That's ugly  
sb2003 : 1/26/2023 1:20 pm : link
"He who shall not be named" was a rock star compared to Judge.

RE: Judge will rue not taking the Mississippi State Job  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:21 pm : link
In comment 16014830 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Til the day he dies.


I think you're being a tad dramatic here. He got a pretty sweet pay day from the Giants. I don't know if he would have gotten that kind of coin from Mississippi State.
It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:24 pm : link
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
It seems to me that Judge has the gift of gab  
SomeFan : 1/26/2023 1:33 pm : link
but not much else.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


Not sure why you’ll hell bent on derailing this thread? This is your second objection. This thread is Focused on Judge our former coach. The thread below is based on the Patriots dysfunction.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/26/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


Maybe because this one was posted during lunch break
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:37 pm : link
In comment 16014897 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Maybe because this one was posted during lunch break


Interesting take.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 1:38 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


Here is the article I’m referring to.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16014896 RELICDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Not sure why you’ll hell bent on derailing this thread? This is your second objection. This thread is Focused on Judge our former coach. The thread below is based on the Patriots dysfunction.


It's an observation that quick hits draw attention more than the meat and potatoes. That article was really good. I would hope the traffic goes through their site rather than the quick hit recap.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
Sean : 1/26/2023 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.

It’s all in the title. Calling out Judge (ex NYG HC) in the title vs just a generic comment about the Patriots makes a difference. Better to be more specific in the title and knowing it’s about Joe Judge will get more interest.
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16014903 RELICDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Here is the article I’m referring to. Link - ( New Window )


Again, that article is only recapping what was in the Boston Herald this morning.

Here is the link to the original source.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 1:47 pm : link
In comment 16014920 aimrocky said:
Quote:
In comment 16014903 RELICDOA said:


Quote:


In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Here is the article I’m referring to. Link - ( New Window )



Again, that article is only recapping what was in the Boston Herald this morning.

Here is the link to the original source. Link - ( New Window )


Do you work for the Boston Herald? I don’t post to direct traffic to a specific article?
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:47 pm : link
In comment 16014911 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


It’s all in the title. Calling out Judge (ex NYG HC) in the title vs just a generic comment about the Patriots makes a difference. Better to be more specific in the title and knowing it’s about Joe Judge will get more interest.


Agreed. I sent the Boston Herald article to one of my employees who's a Pats fan. He didn't bother reading more than the first 2-3 paragraphs.
this is something I could easily see...  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/26/2023 1:54 pm : link
“(Judge) would speak extra loudly in meetings, trying to project like he was the guy,” another source told Callahan. “And I think that kind of rubbed people the wrong way.”

Judge always seemed like a try-hard, I can't imagine how extra try-hardy he must've sounded trying to impress daddy Belichick during meetings.

I really don't have any problem with Judge and do wish him luck. But this has been a rough couple of years for him.
I thought Joe Judge was the next Bill Parcells  
arniefez : 1/26/2023 2:00 pm : link
and it turned out he was the next Bill Arnsparger. Judge had a good first year and was universally praised by the Giants fans, local and national media. When he came back for year two he wasn't the same guy, maybe it all went to his head, and he worked and talked himself into being fired (Thank you Steve Tisch).
This happens more than you think . . .  
3000_MilesToMeadowlands : 1/26/2023 2:02 pm : link
Business interviews a few candidates, one really "blows them away", the person gets hired . . . and do not live up to expectations. Probably most businesses go through this at some point. The person is at their best in 1st impression, interview situation, . . . the gift of gab . . . extreme confidence does not mean competence.

It can happen to anyone - be glad it's over and the damage was not worse.

Similar coaching hire: incredible interview, blew our socks off, blah, blah, blah . . . Greg Williams for the Bills before 2001 season. He lasted 3 underperforming years and new GM that hired him (Tom Donahoe) did not last much longer. Always thought of Williams in Judge's last stages.
........  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 1/26/2023 2:14 pm : link
So many odd occurrence, red flags that I brushed aside because he certainly could "talk the talk"

1) Three veterans - Benjamin, Looney, and Fulton - all decided to retire in training camp after signing contracts. Would be odd to happen once - but three times?

2) His fist fight with Marc Colombo

3) Assistant coaches calling out players to the media

4) So many players specific to special teams, even trading for one. This list included a BACKUP fullback

5) Terrible in game management - especially on 4th down, clock management, and straight up knowing NFL rules

6) Usually I concede that the coaches know better than we do when it comes to roster construction. But there were multiple instances that seemed obvious: Dex should be a nose - not an end. Signing veteran RBs the first days of free agency, things like that. Could be more Gettleman - but I'm sure Judge held sway there.
RE: Keep in mind that John Mara had to be forced  
Optimus-NY : 1/26/2023 2:14 pm : link
In comment 16014740 Section331 said:
Quote:
to fire Judge, so it’s not only BB with questionable judgement. At least he knew when to move on.


+infinity
I was happy to have him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/26/2023 2:35 pm : link
and was surprised and how he just imploded. Just made a lot of mistakes.

Hopefully he does a honest assessment of the situation and works to reestablish himself. Still a young enough guy to rebound.

Pats special teams did not seem too good this year so I thought maybe he would head back to that unit but looks like he may not even be around.

I think if Judge has any chance of rehabilitating himself  
DieHard : 1/26/2023 2:41 pm : link
it's through a college head coach job. He clearly wanted to prove he was more than just a NFL special teams guy by taking the QB coach job, but that's backfired spectacularly. If he goes back to special teams, it's akin to waving the white flag and declaring that he'll never rise above that in the NFL. But maybe he'll be OK with that, I don't know where his head is right now.
I was all in on Judge until the QB sneaks  
Rudy5757 : 1/26/2023 2:50 pm : link
then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.

I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.
If any game showed how Daboll>>>Judge  
RCPhoenix : 1/26/2023 2:53 pm : link
It was the Bears game. Both QBs injured, and yet Daboll is making up plays on the sidelines and the Giants win 20-12.
In a way I don't place the blame on Judge  
Gman11 : 1/26/2023 3:23 pm : link
Why in hell Belichick thought he would be a good OC or Assistant OC (whatever his duties were) is absolutely crazy. He was a special teams coach. Then, a head coach that proved with added responsibility he was in over his head. He shouldn't have been hired to the position he was hired for.
You  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 3:43 pm : link
have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.
RE: You  
bw in dc : 1/26/2023 3:49 pm : link
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.


Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...
RE: RE: You  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 3:50 pm : link
In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...


Yes.
Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: You  
Blue Dream : 1/26/2023 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16015109 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...



Yes. Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )


My question is did Daboll really want to come? You would have to think there was some back channel communication prior to requesting the interview. If he was willing to give up coaching Josh Allen for a lateral move that would make you think he didn't like McDermott very much.
Judge  
TyreeHelmet : 1/26/2023 4:23 pm : link
was truly an awful head coach. I mean its not even close between him and shurmur/ mcadoo and thats really saying something.

They were still fans, posters here, and media saying the Giants should retain him. Truly unbelievable...
RE: I was all in on Judge until the QB sneaks  
Since1965 : 1/26/2023 4:27 pm : link
In comment 16015031 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.

I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.


Thank goodness for those sneaks. The brass was planning to keep him, but the sneaks caused an about face.
It doesn't matter what he wanted, it wasn't possible  
ZogZerg : 1/26/2023 4:56 pm : link
It's not like was available to hire.
Belichick phased him out  
OlyWABigBlue : 1/26/2023 5:05 pm : link
4X faster than we did (~1/2 season vs. 2 full seasons). Small victory? after the mistake of hiring.
RE: RE: I was all in on Judge until the QB sneaks  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/26/2023 5:46 pm : link
In comment 16015164 Since1965 said:
Quote:
In comment 16015031 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.

I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.



Thank goodness for those sneaks. The brass was planning to keep him, but the sneaks caused an about face.


It was like Gollum throwing the ring of power into the pits of Mt. Doom because Mara did not have the moral strength to do it himself.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You  
Mike in NY : 1/26/2023 6:09 pm : link
In comment 16015129 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
In comment 16015109 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...



Yes. Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )



My question is did Daboll really want to come? You would have to think there was some back channel communication prior to requesting the interview. If he was willing to give up coaching Josh Allen for a lateral move that would make you think he didn't like McDermott very much.


I believe that there was some tension as McDermott could have been forceful against the critics who wanted Daboll to run the ball more even though they didn’t have a strong run blocking OL or any worthwhile RB’s.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2023 6:19 pm : link
Thank God for Steve Tisch, who had to-from multiple reports-push John to fire Judge.

I was a Judge defender in 2020 & going into 2021, but he lost me last season. And after that Bears post game presser...I would have fired him on the spot.

In hindsight, Judge should have taken the job in Starksville.
I was one of the last defenders of Judge..  
Sean : 1/26/2023 6:28 pm : link
But it’s clear he was no way suited to be a HC. He had no answers last year and seeing what Daboll did with largely the same roster confirms it. Jones regressed under Judge and now you see why.
I wonder if Judge can even go back to being special teams coordinator  
Ivan15 : 1/26/2023 7:54 pm : link
Somewhere. He may not have been very good at that job but was protected by Belichick.
RE: You  
The Mike : 1/26/2023 9:11 pm : link
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.


Thank God for you and BBI! "This ain't no clown show" marked the unraveling of Captain Queeg and his loose marbles. This alone qualifies BBI for the 2022 NFL Football Forum of the Year award! Judge's dismissal completely changed the trajectory of this franchise. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare 2022 would have been if Judge was still here. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it!

Well played, Eric. Kudos!
RE: RE: You  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 10:49 pm : link
In comment 16015422 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Thank God for you and BBI! "This ain't no clown show" marked the unraveling of Captain Queeg and his loose marbles. This alone qualifies BBI for the 2022 NFL Football Forum of the Year award! Judge's dismissal completely changed the trajectory of this franchise. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare 2022 would have been if Judge was still here. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it!

Well played, Eric. Kudos!

+1
I think Judge has some ability but  
bc4life : 1/27/2023 7:29 am : link
might be a good idea for him to sit back and evaluate what isn't working for him.
I think he's legitimately out of his mind.  
mittenedman : 1/27/2023 9:43 am : link
Like everyone else I was initially impressed by him, but I quickly became worried listening to his press conferences. Remember some of those essay responses to simple questions? It was ugly. Thank God the guy came completely unglued that last 1/2 season here, or he might still be here.

Conversely, his toxic attitude may have been the final straw that unleashed the hell within Giants walls. He may have been a necessary evil for them to finally clean house.





And he would've been  
mittenedman : 1/27/2023 9:44 am : link
perfect for that Mississippi St. job.

This happens in all walks of life - sometimes the lesser job offer is actually the better fit.
Judge was a good coach his first year?  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 1/27/2023 11:06 am : link
Lol 6-10 is a good coach?
One of my favorite Joe Judge-isms that is overlooked  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 1/27/2023 11:09 am : link
is when he did the whole "Listen, a lot of ex-teammates call me up and say they still want to play for me."

Very reminscent of "Hey, listen all my ex-girlfriends still call me up and say they still want to be with me."

The 3rd and 9 QB sneak, the "we're not a clown show", the long winded answers. Even when he went on public record and blasted the Eagles because they didn't help us sneak in with our 6-10 record was cringy.

Thank God he's no longer coach.
Judge and Mississippi St  
ghost718 : 1/27/2023 11:37 am : link
I don't think this was a sure thing to happen

There's a good chance they weren't buying the accent
I never favored Judge  
Producer : 1/27/2023 12:26 pm : link
as I don't like tough talking people. They're usually overcompensating. But I feel bad for Judge now. I hope he finds a spot that works for him.
This whole thing just shows you ...  
DefenseWins : 1/27/2023 12:41 pm : link
how inept John Mara's decision making has been.

The biggest mystery that I would like to get revealed is who finally got through to him? Who held the gun to Mara's head and forced him to go outside of his comfort zone? Who truly hired Schoen?

This whole thing feels like when the stupid kid in class turns in his book report but someone else clearly wrote it for him.
RE: Judge was a good coach his first year?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/27/2023 12:51 pm : link
In comment 16015812 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Lol 6-10 is a good coach?


This place was CONVINCED they were on the right track after that year. I was one of them. It was enough to have some comfort level with.
can't just go by that 6-10 record  
bc4life : 1/27/2023 9:01 pm : link
inherited an undertalented team. saw some glimmers of light his first year. second year, more injuries, and his coaching style wore on players. If you're going to mimic BB's style you better get results fast or team will turn on you
DefenseWins  
cosmicj : 1/27/2023 9:11 pm : link
Haha. Classic post.
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