2 articles below outline just how inept Judge is as a coach. How Belichick endorsed him initially should be a red flag of his judgment.
Article from NESN
Joe Judge’s return to the Patriots was equally disastrous. According to the Boston Herald’s Andrew Callahan, Judge was “phased out” during New England’s underwhelming campaign, a stark fall from grace after he entered training camp and the preseason with significant duties. It reportedly was commonplace for Judge to draw the ire of Patriots head coach Bill Belichick as well as starting quarterback Mac Jones.
“As Patricia came under outside fire as the face of the offense, Judge drew increasing criticism from within,” Callahan wrote. “Belichick would blast him in practice, and it wasn’t uncommon for Judge and Jones to trade profanity-laced outbursts. Jones’ trust in his position coach was effectively non-existent.”
A source added Jones “didn’t like” the former New York Giants head coach “at all.”
“(Judge) would speak extra loudly in meetings, trying to project like he was the guy,” another source told Callahan. “And I think that kind of rubbed people the wrong way.”
Fortunately for Jones, it doesn’t sound like he’ll have to work with Judge or Patricia in his all-important third NFL season. Bill O’Brien reportedly was hired this week to be the Patriots’ new offensive coordinator and New England’s setup for this year’s Shrine Bowl suggests Patricia and Judge might not be on the team’s coaching staff at all in 2023.
Separate article: Bill Belichick Reportedly Yelled At Joe Judge, Began Phasing Him Out
Joe Judge’s tenure as New York Giants head coach ended poorly, and that seemed to carry over in his return to New England.
The Patriots offensive assistant and quarterbacks coach worked with Matt Patricia and Bill Belichick to help guide the offense and Mac Jones. But the 2022 season was a disaster on that end, and while Patricia has gotten most of the flak, Judge did not receive favorable treatment either.
The 41-year-old assistant reportedly was “phased out” during the season, according to Andrew Callahan and Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald. This marked a steep fall in grace as Judge was expected to command a large role on New England’s staff, and there was potential before the season for the former Giants head coach to rebound from a 4-13 season the year prior.
“Joe Judge, they later suspected, was in a long process of being phased out,” the Boston Herald reported. “It was a stark change from training camp when Judge would command meetings and share the play-call sheet in team periods with Patricia and Belichick. Judge also coached across positions in practice, forcing other assistants to occasionally correct his talking points to players during drills.”
A source added: “I think there were times the coaches were frustrated, especially the ones who had been on staff in years past and knew what we had done.”
Judge reportedly “rubbed people the wrong way” when he would try to exert himself in team meetings, and he also drew the ire of Belichick and Jones, who “didn’t like” the former head coach.
“As Patricia came under outside fire as the face of the offense, Judge drew increasing criticism from within,” the Boston Herald reported. “Belichick would blast him in practice, and it wasn’t uncommon for Judge and Jones to trade profanity-laced outbursts. Jones’ trust in his position coach was effectively non-existent.”
I don't think the article is wrong based on what transpired here, but everytime there is a down year in Boston, like clockwork these articles start rolling out.
Plenty of coaches who failed as a HC came back to succeed as a coordinator. Dan Quinn is one. JAson Garrett though is not on the list.
Judge was a ST coach. Not sure why BB thought he was qualified to run an offense. Same for Patricia. Just odd.
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Back to a position coach. He should have gone the college route instead.
Plenty of coaches who failed as a HC came back to succeed as a coordinator. Dan Quinn is one. JAson Garrett though is not on the list.
Judge was a ST coach. Not sure why BB thought he was qualified to run an offense. Same for Patricia. Just odd.
He went from head coach to QB coach. Not everyone can do that transition. When he was special teams coach he got to address the whole team.
Such a shame, because I can only speak for myself, but I fell for him and his hype when he first got here. A younger Coughlin is what I thought we were getting. But I forgot it took Tom a few times through the league and many more years as an assistant in the first place before it clicked for him.
Here's hoping Judge can learn from his mistakes, and grow too. You can't act like Belicheck without the incredible resume of being Belicheck.
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Back to a position coach. He should have gone the college route instead.
Plenty of coaches who failed as a HC came back to succeed as a coordinator. Dan Quinn is one. JAson Garrett though is not on the list.
Judge was a ST coach. Not sure why BB thought he was qualified to run an offense. Same for Patricia. Just odd.
Not as odd as our owners thinking he was qualified to be a HC.
Two years...and Mara wanted to stick with him! Thank god for Tisch!
his "accomplishment" here was filling the Fumble role in changing how ownership was involved.
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Just a brutally bad coach. Worse NYG ever had. Might be the worst of all time. And he was here for two years!
Two years...and Mara wanted to stick with him! Thank god for Tisch!
Crazy to think! Also I think an indication that we had talent all along, just underutilized and undeveloped.
I believe he needs to actively be seeking work to get paid. He was offered the co-OC job and had to take it. Otherwise, Giants could've sued him.
This is all based off what I've learned from the Klingsbury situation, so again, it may not be factually accurate. Feel free to correct.
Joe Judge was by far the biggest problem with the organization last year and to me will go down as the worst coach we have ever had. Worse than Ray Handley. He was incompetent in every imaginable way.
:-)
I don't think the article is wrong based on what transpired here, but everytime there is a down year in Boston, like clockwork these articles start rolling out.
100% true
They do love to gather quotes from a bunch of anonymous people to bash people on their way out of town
That said, count me squarely in the camp of those completely fooled by Judge’s act. I loved him early on. Thankfully Giants changed course and look to have done a much better job this time around
Such a shame, because I can only speak for myself, but I fell for him and his hype when he first got here. A younger Coughlin is what I thought we were getting. But I forgot it took Tom a few times through the league and many more years as an assistant in the first place before it clicked for him.
Here's hoping Judge can learn from his mistakes, and grow too. You can't act like Belicheck without the incredible resume of being Belicheck.
Me too shecky. He turned out to be more bravado and smoke and mirrors. Talked a good game but players eventually saw thru him. K Benjamin called him out and I thought he was griping. He may not of been.
depends on who is doing the interview
Actually, studies have shown it can be a great tool. But as Victor said, it depends on who is doing it.
True. You can have interviewees who rock interviews; who display loads of savvy and panache. In many cases that’s all they can rock
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Shows what a poor hiring device interviewing is.
Actually, studies have shown it can be a great tool. But as Victor said, it depends on who is doing it.
I've heard of studies that actually say the opposite, for example colleges that don't interview get better students than those that do - based on some objective measurements like graduation and job hires. Of course Mara, Tisch and Little Timmy think they are brilliant interviewers or something.
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Apparently, Judge getting such a quick second chance had the opposite effect of being humbled by his blown opportunity in NY.
Such a shame, because I can only speak for myself, but I fell for him and his hype when he first got here. A younger Coughlin is what I thought we were getting. But I forgot it took Tom a few times through the league and many more years as an assistant in the first place before it clicked for him.
Here's hoping Judge can learn from his mistakes, and grow too. You can't act like Belicheck without the incredible resume of being Belicheck.
Me too shecky. He turned out to be more bravado and smoke and mirrors. Talked a good game but players eventually saw thru him. K Benjamin called him out and I thought he was griping. He may not of been.
I'm surprised Mac Jones didn't shadow retire like Giants players.
It's not really mystifying, he came with the Belichick seal of approval and said a lot of things that were straight out of the 1980's NFC East philosophy.
John Mara at the top of the organization has no football acumen whatsoever.
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How this guy (Judge) seemingly got to the heights of coaching (HC) based on absolutely nothing. Just a few recommendations here and there. He was a big fat zero all along.
his "accomplishment" here was filling the Fumble role in changing how ownership was involved.
Joe Judge is like Gollum, this organization "needed" him all along.
At the time of his hire, I suggested thar Judge should take the Miss St job for lifestyle reasons.
Cue Clint Eastwood, “A Man’s gotta know his own limitations.”
I think you're being a tad dramatic here. He got a pretty sweet pay day from the Giants. I don't know if he would have gotten that kind of coin from Mississippi State.
Not sure why you’ll hell bent on derailing this thread? This is your second objection. This thread is Focused on Judge our former coach. The thread below is based on the Patriots dysfunction.
Maybe because this one was posted during lunch break
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to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
Maybe because this one was posted during lunch break
Interesting take.
Here is the article I’m referring to.
Link - ( New Window )
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to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
Not sure why you’ll hell bent on derailing this thread? This is your second objection. This thread is Focused on Judge our former coach. The thread below is based on the Patriots dysfunction.
It's an observation that quick hits draw attention more than the meat and potatoes. That article was really good. I would hope the traffic goes through their site rather than the quick hit recap.
It’s all in the title. Calling out Judge (ex NYG HC) in the title vs just a generic comment about the Patriots makes a difference. Better to be more specific in the title and knowing it’s about Joe Judge will get more interest.
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to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
Here is the article I’m referring to. Link - ( New Window )
Again, that article is only recapping what was in the Boston Herald this morning.
Here is the link to the original source.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
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to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
Here is the article I’m referring to. Link - ( New Window )
Again, that article is only recapping what was in the Boston Herald this morning.
Here is the link to the original source. Link - ( New Window )
Do you work for the Boston Herald? I don’t post to direct traffic to a specific article?
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to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
It’s all in the title. Calling out Judge (ex NYG HC) in the title vs just a generic comment about the Patriots makes a difference. Better to be more specific in the title and knowing it’s about Joe Judge will get more interest.
Agreed. I sent the Boston Herald article to one of my employees who's a Pats fan. He didn't bother reading more than the first 2-3 paragraphs.
Judge always seemed like a try-hard, I can't imagine how extra try-hardy he must've sounded trying to impress daddy Belichick during meetings.
I really don't have any problem with Judge and do wish him luck. But this has been a rough couple of years for him.
It can happen to anyone - be glad it's over and the damage was not worse.
Similar coaching hire: incredible interview, blew our socks off, blah, blah, blah . . . Greg Williams for the Bills before 2001 season. He lasted 3 underperforming years and new GM that hired him (Tom Donahoe) did not last much longer. Always thought of Williams in Judge's last stages.
1) Three veterans - Benjamin, Looney, and Fulton - all decided to retire in training camp after signing contracts. Would be odd to happen once - but three times?
2) His fist fight with Marc Colombo
3) Assistant coaches calling out players to the media
4) So many players specific to special teams, even trading for one. This list included a BACKUP fullback
5) Terrible in game management - especially on 4th down, clock management, and straight up knowing NFL rules
6) Usually I concede that the coaches know better than we do when it comes to roster construction. But there were multiple instances that seemed obvious: Dex should be a nose - not an end. Signing veteran RBs the first days of free agency, things like that. Could be more Gettleman - but I'm sure Judge held sway there.
+infinity
Hopefully he does a honest assessment of the situation and works to reestablish himself. Still a young enough guy to rebound.
Pats special teams did not seem too good this year so I thought maybe he would head back to that unit but looks like he may not even be around.
I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.
Is that confirmed?
Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...
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have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.
Is that confirmed?
Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...
Yes.
Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )
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In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:
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have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.
Is that confirmed?
Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...
Yes. Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )
My question is did Daboll really want to come? You would have to think there was some back channel communication prior to requesting the interview. If he was willing to give up coaching Josh Allen for a lateral move that would make you think he didn't like McDermott very much.
They were still fans, posters here, and media saying the Giants should retain him. Truly unbelievable...
I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.
Thank goodness for those sneaks. The brass was planning to keep him, but the sneaks caused an about face.
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then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.
I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.
Thank goodness for those sneaks. The brass was planning to keep him, but the sneaks caused an about face.
It was like Gollum throwing the ring of power into the pits of Mt. Doom because Mara did not have the moral strength to do it himself.
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In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:
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have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.
Is that confirmed?
Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...
Yes. Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )
My question is did Daboll really want to come? You would have to think there was some back channel communication prior to requesting the interview. If he was willing to give up coaching Josh Allen for a lateral move that would make you think he didn't like McDermott very much.
I believe that there was some tension as McDermott could have been forceful against the critics who wanted Daboll to run the ball more even though they didn’t have a strong run blocking OL or any worthwhile RB’s.
I was a Judge defender in 2020 & going into 2021, but he lost me last season. And after that Bears post game presser...I would have fired him on the spot.
In hindsight, Judge should have taken the job in Starksville.
Thank God for you and BBI! "This ain't no clown show" marked the unraveling of Captain Queeg and his loose marbles. This alone qualifies BBI for the 2022 NFL Football Forum of the Year award! Judge's dismissal completely changed the trajectory of this franchise. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare 2022 would have been if Judge was still here. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it!
Well played, Eric. Kudos!
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have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.
Thank God for you and BBI! "This ain't no clown show" marked the unraveling of Captain Queeg and his loose marbles. This alone qualifies BBI for the 2022 NFL Football Forum of the Year award! Judge's dismissal completely changed the trajectory of this franchise. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare 2022 would have been if Judge was still here. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it!
Well played, Eric. Kudos!
+1
Conversely, his toxic attitude may have been the final straw that unleashed the hell within Giants walls. He may have been a necessary evil for them to finally clean house.
This happens in all walks of life - sometimes the lesser job offer is actually the better fit.
Very reminscent of "Hey, listen all my ex-girlfriends still call me up and say they still want to be with me."
The 3rd and 9 QB sneak, the "we're not a clown show", the long winded answers. Even when he went on public record and blasted the Eagles because they didn't help us sneak in with our 6-10 record was cringy.
Thank God he's no longer coach.
There's a good chance they weren't buying the accent
The biggest mystery that I would like to get revealed is who finally got through to him? Who held the gun to Mara's head and forced him to go outside of his comfort zone? Who truly hired Schoen?
This whole thing feels like when the stupid kid in class turns in his book report but someone else clearly wrote it for him.
This place was CONVINCED they were on the right track after that year. I was one of them. It was enough to have some comfort level with.