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Belichick phased out Joe Judge

RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 11:59 am
2 articles below outline just how inept Judge is as a coach. How Belichick endorsed him initially should be a red flag of his judgment.

Article from NESN
Joe Judge’s return to the Patriots was equally disastrous. According to the Boston Herald’s Andrew Callahan, Judge was “phased out” during New England’s underwhelming campaign, a stark fall from grace after he entered training camp and the preseason with significant duties. It reportedly was commonplace for Judge to draw the ire of Patriots head coach Bill Belichick as well as starting quarterback Mac Jones.
“As Patricia came under outside fire as the face of the offense, Judge drew increasing criticism from within,” Callahan wrote. “Belichick would blast him in practice, and it wasn’t uncommon for Judge and Jones to trade profanity-laced outbursts. Jones’ trust in his position coach was effectively non-existent.”
A source added Jones “didn’t like” the former New York Giants head coach “at all.”
“(Judge) would speak extra loudly in meetings, trying to project like he was the guy,” another source told Callahan. “And I think that kind of rubbed people the wrong way.”
Fortunately for Jones, it doesn’t sound like he’ll have to work with Judge or Patricia in his all-important third NFL season. Bill O’Brien reportedly was hired this week to be the Patriots’ new offensive coordinator and New England’s setup for this year’s Shrine Bowl suggests Patricia and Judge might not be on the team’s coaching staff at all in 2023.

Separate article: Bill Belichick Reportedly Yelled At Joe Judge, Began Phasing Him Out
Joe Judge’s tenure as New York Giants head coach ended poorly, and that seemed to carry over in his return to New England.

The Patriots offensive assistant and quarterbacks coach worked with Matt Patricia and Bill Belichick to help guide the offense and Mac Jones. But the 2022 season was a disaster on that end, and while Patricia has gotten most of the flak, Judge did not receive favorable treatment either.

The 41-year-old assistant reportedly was “phased out” during the season, according to Andrew Callahan and Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald. This marked a steep fall in grace as Judge was expected to command a large role on New England’s staff, and there was potential before the season for the former Giants head coach to rebound from a 4-13 season the year prior.

“Joe Judge, they later suspected, was in a long process of being phased out,” the Boston Herald reported. “It was a stark change from training camp when Judge would command meetings and share the play-call sheet in team periods with Patricia and Belichick. Judge also coached across positions in practice, forcing other assistants to occasionally correct his talking points to players during drills.”
A source added: “I think there were times the coaches were frustrated, especially the ones who had been on staff in years past and knew what we had done.”
Judge reportedly “rubbed people the wrong way” when he would try to exert himself in team meetings, and he also drew the ire of Belichick and Jones, who “didn’t like” the former head coach.
“As Patricia came under outside fire as the face of the offense, Judge drew increasing criticism from within,” the Boston Herald reported. “Belichick would blast him in practice, and it wasn’t uncommon for Judge and Jones to trade profanity-laced outbursts. Jones’ trust in his position coach was effectively non-existent.”
Wow  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/26/2023 12:09 pm : link
Man I remember so excited after hearing Judge introductory press conference. But the guy was all talk. He just isn’t a leader of men.
I believe every word  
mattlawson : 1/26/2023 12:11 pm : link
.
It is really hard to transition from calling all the shots  
Giantimistic : 1/26/2023 12:13 pm : link
Back to a position coach. He should have gone the college route instead.
the pain was real  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/26/2023 12:15 pm : link
!
Man does the Boston media love to shit on people  
BH28 : 1/26/2023 12:16 pm : link
Anytime someone leaves one of their teams or does poorly, articles like this roll out.

I don't think the article is wrong based on what transpired here, but everytime there is a down year in Boston, like clockwork these articles start rolling out.
RE: It is really hard to transition from calling all the shots  
johnnyb : 1/26/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16014717 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
Back to a position coach. He should have gone the college route instead.


Plenty of coaches who failed as a HC came back to succeed as a coordinator. Dan Quinn is one. JAson Garrett though is not on the list.

Judge was a ST coach. Not sure why BB thought he was qualified to run an offense. Same for Patricia. Just odd.
Just insane  
Spider43 : 1/26/2023 12:18 pm : link
How this guy (Judge) seemingly got to the heights of coaching (HC) based on absolutely nothing. Just a few recommendations here and there. He was a big fat zero all along.
Not trying to be the thread police here  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 12:19 pm : link
But there’s already another thread discussing this article. In fact the “two” articles you linked above are taking the quotes from this morning’s Boston Herald article. It’s one article linked three different ways here.
RE: RE: It is really hard to transition from calling all the shots  
Giantimistic : 1/26/2023 12:19 pm : link
In comment 16014723 johnnyb said:
Quote:
In comment 16014717 Giantimistic said:


Quote:


Back to a position coach. He should have gone the college route instead.



Plenty of coaches who failed as a HC came back to succeed as a coordinator. Dan Quinn is one. JAson Garrett though is not on the list.

Judge was a ST coach. Not sure why BB thought he was qualified to run an offense. Same for Patricia. Just odd.


He went from head coach to QB coach. Not everyone can do that transition. When he was special teams coach he got to address the whole team.

Humbled  
Shecky : 1/26/2023 12:20 pm : link
Apparently, Judge getting such a quick second chance had the opposite effect of being humbled by his blown opportunity in NY.

Such a shame, because I can only speak for myself, but I fell for him and his hype when he first got here. A younger Coughlin is what I thought we were getting. But I forgot it took Tom a few times through the league and many more years as an assistant in the first place before it clicked for him.

Here's hoping Judge can learn from his mistakes, and grow too. You can't act like Belicheck without the incredible resume of being Belicheck.
Judge  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/26/2023 12:20 pm : link
Should have taken the year off and looked at his option for the this upcoming season. A year off has done well for some coaches (I.e Dan Quinn). Judge was still getting paid by the Giants so he had nothing to lose. He could taken a college job, which probably better suits his coaching style.
It's amazing NYG won as many games as they did those two years  
speedywheels : 1/26/2023 12:22 pm : link
Just a brutally bad coach. Worse NYG ever had. Might be the worst of all time. And he was here for two years!
Keep in mind that John Mara had to be forced  
Section331 : 1/26/2023 12:25 pm : link
to fire Judge, so it’s not only BB with questionable judgement. At least he knew when to move on.
RE: RE: It is really hard to transition from calling all the shots  
Section331 : 1/26/2023 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16014723 johnnyb said:
Quote:
In comment 16014717 Giantimistic said:


Quote:


Back to a position coach. He should have gone the college route instead.



Plenty of coaches who failed as a HC came back to succeed as a coordinator. Dan Quinn is one. JAson Garrett though is not on the list.

Judge was a ST coach. Not sure why BB thought he was qualified to run an offense. Same for Patricia. Just odd.


Not as odd as our owners thinking he was qualified to be a HC.
RE: It's amazing NYG won as many games as they did those two years  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 1/26/2023 12:28 pm : link
In comment 16014734 speedywheels said:
Quote:
Just a brutally bad coach. Worse NYG ever had. Might be the worst of all time. And he was here for two years!


Two years...and Mara wanted to stick with him! Thank god for Tisch!
He’s more of a con man than a coach  
Greg from LI : 1/26/2023 12:28 pm : link
All hat, no cattle
RE: Just insane  
Victor in CT : 1/26/2023 12:28 pm : link
In comment 16014724 Spider43 said:
Quote:
How this guy (Judge) seemingly got to the heights of coaching (HC) based on absolutely nothing. Just a few recommendations here and there. He was a big fat zero all along.


his "accomplishment" here was filling the Fumble role in changing how ownership was involved.
RE: RE: It's amazing NYG won as many games as they did those two years  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 12:30 pm : link
In comment 16014746 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
In comment 16014734 speedywheels said:


Quote:


Just a brutally bad coach. Worse NYG ever had. Might be the worst of all time. And he was here for two years!



Two years...and Mara wanted to stick with him! Thank god for Tisch!


Crazy to think! Also I think an indication that we had talent all along, just underutilized and undeveloped.
RE: Judge  
Eli2020 : 1/26/2023 12:31 pm : link
In comment 16014730 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Should have taken the year off and looked at his option for the this upcoming season. A year off has done well for some coaches (I.e Dan Quinn). Judge was still getting paid by the Giants so he had nothing to lose. He could taken a college job, which probably better suits his coaching style.


I believe he needs to actively be seeking work to get paid. He was offered the co-OC job and had to take it. Otherwise, Giants could've sued him.

This is all based off what I've learned from the Klingsbury situation, so again, it may not be factually accurate. Feel free to correct.
I too was taken in by QB sneaks when he was first hired.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2023 12:32 pm : link
Just a disaster
.  
Danny Kanell : 1/26/2023 12:33 pm : link
I said it last year until I was blue in the face and I still believe it (and this isn’t giving a pass to Gettleman)

Joe Judge was by far the biggest problem with the organization last year and to me will go down as the worst coach we have ever had. Worse than Ray Handley. He was incompetent in every imaginable way.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/26/2023 12:33 pm : link
Are people forgetting he practiced with wet footballs once?
Our special teams were pretty awful last year…  
JoeSchoens11 : 1/26/2023 12:34 pm : link
kick the tires?

:-)
Let’s be fair: He didn’t slick back his hair  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2023 12:35 pm : link
and he didn’t carry the Duke.
RE: Man does the Boston media love to shit on people  
mfsd : 1/26/2023 12:35 pm : link
In comment 16014722 BH28 said:
Quote:
Anytime someone leaves one of their teams or does poorly, articles like this roll out.

I don't think the article is wrong based on what transpired here, but everytime there is a down year in Boston, like clockwork these articles start rolling out.


100% true

They do love to gather quotes from a bunch of anonymous people to bash people on their way out of town

That said, count me squarely in the camp of those completely fooled by Judge’s act. I loved him early on. Thankfully Giants changed course and look to have done a much better job this time around
RE: Humbled  
Payasdaddy : 1/26/2023 12:35 pm : link
In comment 16014729 Shecky said:
Quote:
Apparently, Judge getting such a quick second chance had the opposite effect of being humbled by his blown opportunity in NY.

Such a shame, because I can only speak for myself, but I fell for him and his hype when he first got here. A younger Coughlin is what I thought we were getting. But I forgot it took Tom a few times through the league and many more years as an assistant in the first place before it clicked for him.

Here's hoping Judge can learn from his mistakes, and grow too. You can't act like Belicheck without the incredible resume of being Belicheck.


Me too shecky. He turned out to be more bravado and smoke and mirrors. Talked a good game but players eventually saw thru him. K Benjamin called him out and I thought he was griping. He may not of been.
How could BB have looked at  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/26/2023 12:43 pm : link
Judge's body of work with the Giants and thought this was a good idea? Seems like a moronic hire by BB and everyone here knew that.
Judge was hired on the basis of an interview  
cosmicj : 1/26/2023 12:49 pm : link
Shows what a poor hiring device interviewing is.
RE: Judge was hired on the basis of an interview  
Victor in CT : 1/26/2023 12:51 pm : link
In comment 16014786 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Shows what a poor hiring device interviewing is.


depends on who is doing the interview
He’s more is a program destroyer  
UberAlias : 1/26/2023 12:53 pm : link
Than a program builder.
RE: Judge was hired on the basis of an interview  
speedywheels : 1/26/2023 12:55 pm : link
In comment 16014786 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Shows what a poor hiring device interviewing is.


Actually, studies have shown it can be a great tool. But as Victor said, it depends on who is doing it.
RE: Judge was hired on the basis of an interview  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2023 12:56 pm : link
In comment 16014786 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Shows what a poor hiring device interviewing is.


True. You can have interviewees who rock interviews; who display loads of savvy and panache. In many cases that’s all they can rock
Buying into Judge  
j_rud : 1/26/2023 12:56 pm : link
Is my sports fandom most embarrassing moment.
Not unexpected  
Dave on the UWS : 1/26/2023 12:58 pm : link
based on what we saw last year.
Still mystifying  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/26/2023 1:03 pm : link
why Giants ever hired this guy. What the hell has he ever accomplished and his qualifications to be a head coach???
RE: RE: Judge was hired on the basis of an interview  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/26/2023 1:06 pm : link
In comment 16014794 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 16014786 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Shows what a poor hiring device interviewing is.



Actually, studies have shown it can be a great tool. But as Victor said, it depends on who is doing it.


I've heard of studies that actually say the opposite, for example colleges that don't interview get better students than those that do - based on some objective measurements like graduation and job hires. Of course Mara, Tisch and Little Timmy think they are brilliant interviewers or something.
unbelievable we hired this guy as HC  
djm : 1/26/2023 1:08 pm : link
and I apologize to whoever said McAdoo was better. I couldn't fathom this at the time but it's is true. At least McAdoo has managed to not torpedo other offenses like JJ has. And Ben did win in hist first year here as HC.
RE: RE: Humbled  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/26/2023 1:10 pm : link
In comment 16014768 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
In comment 16014729 Shecky said:


Quote:


Apparently, Judge getting such a quick second chance had the opposite effect of being humbled by his blown opportunity in NY.

Such a shame, because I can only speak for myself, but I fell for him and his hype when he first got here. A younger Coughlin is what I thought we were getting. But I forgot it took Tom a few times through the league and many more years as an assistant in the first place before it clicked for him.

Here's hoping Judge can learn from his mistakes, and grow too. You can't act like Belicheck without the incredible resume of being Belicheck.



Me too shecky. He turned out to be more bravado and smoke and mirrors. Talked a good game but players eventually saw thru him. K Benjamin called him out and I thought he was griping. He may not of been.


I'm surprised Mac Jones didn't shadow retire like Giants players.
We really ate up all his press conference garbage  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/26/2023 1:10 pm : link
Used car salesman.
Judge will rue not taking the Mississippi State Job  
Blue Dream : 1/26/2023 1:11 pm : link
Til the day he dies.
RE: Still mystifying  
rsjem1979 : 1/26/2023 1:13 pm : link
In comment 16014806 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
why Giants ever hired this guy. What the hell has he ever accomplished and his qualifications to be a head coach???


It's not really mystifying, he came with the Belichick seal of approval and said a lot of things that were straight out of the 1980's NFC East philosophy.

John Mara at the top of the organization has no football acumen whatsoever.
RE: RE: Just insane  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/26/2023 1:13 pm : link
In comment 16014749 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 16014724 Spider43 said:


Quote:


How this guy (Judge) seemingly got to the heights of coaching (HC) based on absolutely nothing. Just a few recommendations here and there. He was a big fat zero all along.



his "accomplishment" here was filling the Fumble role in changing how ownership was involved.


Joe Judge is like Gollum, this organization "needed" him all along.
RE: Judge will rue not taking the Mississippi State Job  
cosmicj : 1/26/2023 1:17 pm : link
In comment 16014830 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Til the day he dies.


At the time of his hire, I suggested thar Judge should take the Miss St job for lifestyle reasons.

Cue Clint Eastwood, “A Man’s gotta know his own limitations.”
That's ugly  
sb2003 : 1/26/2023 1:20 pm : link
"He who shall not be named" was a rock star compared to Judge.

RE: Judge will rue not taking the Mississippi State Job  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:21 pm : link
In comment 16014830 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Til the day he dies.


I think you're being a tad dramatic here. He got a pretty sweet pay day from the Giants. I don't know if he would have gotten that kind of coin from Mississippi State.
It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:24 pm : link
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.
It seems to me that Judge has the gift of gab  
SomeFan : 1/26/2023 1:33 pm : link
but not much else.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


Not sure why you’ll hell bent on derailing this thread? This is your second objection. This thread is Focused on Judge our former coach. The thread below is based on the Patriots dysfunction.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/26/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


Maybe because this one was posted during lunch break
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:37 pm : link
In comment 16014897 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Maybe because this one was posted during lunch break


Interesting take.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 1:38 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


Here is the article I’m referring to.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16014896 RELICDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Not sure why you’ll hell bent on derailing this thread? This is your second objection. This thread is Focused on Judge our former coach. The thread below is based on the Patriots dysfunction.


It's an observation that quick hits draw attention more than the meat and potatoes. That article was really good. I would hope the traffic goes through their site rather than the quick hit recap.
RE: It's kind of funny to me  
Sean : 1/26/2023 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:
Quote:
to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.

It’s all in the title. Calling out Judge (ex NYG HC) in the title vs just a generic comment about the Patriots makes a difference. Better to be more specific in the title and knowing it’s about Joe Judge will get more interest.
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16014903 RELICDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Here is the article I’m referring to. Link - ( New Window )


Again, that article is only recapping what was in the Boston Herald this morning.

Here is the link to the original source.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 1:47 pm : link
In comment 16014920 aimrocky said:
Quote:
In comment 16014903 RELICDOA said:


Quote:


In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.



Here is the article I’m referring to. Link - ( New Window )



Again, that article is only recapping what was in the Boston Herald this morning.

Here is the link to the original source. Link - ( New Window )


Do you work for the Boston Herald? I don’t post to direct traffic to a specific article?
RE: RE: It's kind of funny to me  
aimrocky : 1/26/2023 1:47 pm : link
In comment 16014911 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16014866 aimrocky said:


Quote:


to see 40+ responses on a thread that provides snippets to a very good article, but the thread that's linking this article only has 25 responses.


It’s all in the title. Calling out Judge (ex NYG HC) in the title vs just a generic comment about the Patriots makes a difference. Better to be more specific in the title and knowing it’s about Joe Judge will get more interest.


Agreed. I sent the Boston Herald article to one of my employees who's a Pats fan. He didn't bother reading more than the first 2-3 paragraphs.
this is something I could easily see...  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/26/2023 1:54 pm : link
“(Judge) would speak extra loudly in meetings, trying to project like he was the guy,” another source told Callahan. “And I think that kind of rubbed people the wrong way.”

Judge always seemed like a try-hard, I can't imagine how extra try-hardy he must've sounded trying to impress daddy Belichick during meetings.

I really don't have any problem with Judge and do wish him luck. But this has been a rough couple of years for him.
I thought Joe Judge was the next Bill Parcells  
arniefez : 1/26/2023 2:00 pm : link
and it turned out he was the next Bill Arnsparger. Judge had a good first year and was universally praised by the Giants fans, local and national media. When he came back for year two he wasn't the same guy, maybe it all went to his head, and he worked and talked himself into being fired (Thank you Steve Tisch).
This happens more than you think . . .  
3000_MilesToMeadowlands : 1/26/2023 2:02 pm : link
Business interviews a few candidates, one really "blows them away", the person gets hired . . . and do not live up to expectations. Probably most businesses go through this at some point. The person is at their best in 1st impression, interview situation, . . . the gift of gab . . . extreme confidence does not mean competence.

It can happen to anyone - be glad it's over and the damage was not worse.

Similar coaching hire: incredible interview, blew our socks off, blah, blah, blah . . . Greg Williams for the Bills before 2001 season. He lasted 3 underperforming years and new GM that hired him (Tom Donahoe) did not last much longer. Always thought of Williams in Judge's last stages.
........  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 1/26/2023 2:14 pm : link
So many odd occurrence, red flags that I brushed aside because he certainly could "talk the talk"

1) Three veterans - Benjamin, Looney, and Fulton - all decided to retire in training camp after signing contracts. Would be odd to happen once - but three times?

2) His fist fight with Marc Colombo

3) Assistant coaches calling out players to the media

4) So many players specific to special teams, even trading for one. This list included a BACKUP fullback

5) Terrible in game management - especially on 4th down, clock management, and straight up knowing NFL rules

6) Usually I concede that the coaches know better than we do when it comes to roster construction. But there were multiple instances that seemed obvious: Dex should be a nose - not an end. Signing veteran RBs the first days of free agency, things like that. Could be more Gettleman - but I'm sure Judge held sway there.
RE: Keep in mind that John Mara had to be forced  
Optimus-NY : 1/26/2023 2:14 pm : link
In comment 16014740 Section331 said:
Quote:
to fire Judge, so it’s not only BB with questionable judgement. At least he knew when to move on.


+infinity
I was happy to have him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/26/2023 2:35 pm : link
and was surprised and how he just imploded. Just made a lot of mistakes.

Hopefully he does a honest assessment of the situation and works to reestablish himself. Still a young enough guy to rebound.

Pats special teams did not seem too good this year so I thought maybe he would head back to that unit but looks like he may not even be around.

I think if Judge has any chance of rehabilitating himself  
DieHard : 1/26/2023 2:41 pm : link
it's through a college head coach job. He clearly wanted to prove he was more than just a NFL special teams guy by taking the QB coach job, but that's backfired spectacularly. If he goes back to special teams, it's akin to waving the white flag and declaring that he'll never rise above that in the NFL. But maybe he'll be OK with that, I don't know where his head is right now.
I was all in on Judge until the QB sneaks  
Rudy5757 : 1/26/2023 2:50 pm : link
then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.

I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.
If any game showed how Daboll>>>Judge  
RCPhoenix : 1/26/2023 2:53 pm : link
It was the Bears game. Both QBs injured, and yet Daboll is making up plays on the sidelines and the Giants win 20-12.
In a way I don't place the blame on Judge  
Gman11 : 1/26/2023 3:23 pm : link
Why in hell Belichick thought he would be a good OC or Assistant OC (whatever his duties were) is absolutely crazy. He was a special teams coach. Then, a head coach that proved with added responsibility he was in over his head. He shouldn't have been hired to the position he was hired for.
You  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 3:43 pm : link
have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.
RE: You  
bw in dc : 1/26/2023 3:49 pm : link
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.


Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...
RE: RE: You  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 3:50 pm : link
In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...


Yes.
Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: You  
Blue Dream : 1/26/2023 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16015109 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...



Yes. Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )


My question is did Daboll really want to come? You would have to think there was some back channel communication prior to requesting the interview. If he was willing to give up coaching Josh Allen for a lateral move that would make you think he didn't like McDermott very much.
Judge  
TyreeHelmet : 1/26/2023 4:23 pm : link
was truly an awful head coach. I mean its not even close between him and shurmur/ mcadoo and thats really saying something.

They were still fans, posters here, and media saying the Giants should retain him. Truly unbelievable...
RE: I was all in on Judge until the QB sneaks  
Since1965 : 1/26/2023 4:27 pm : link
In comment 16015031 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.

I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.


Thank goodness for those sneaks. The brass was planning to keep him, but the sneaks caused an about face.
It doesn't matter what he wanted, it wasn't possible  
ZogZerg : 1/26/2023 4:56 pm : link
It's not like was available to hire.
Belichick phased him out  
OlyWABigBlue : 1/26/2023 5:05 pm : link
4X faster than we did (~1/2 season vs. 2 full seasons). Small victory? after the mistake of hiring.
RE: RE: I was all in on Judge until the QB sneaks  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/26/2023 5:46 pm : link
In comment 16015164 Since1965 said:
Quote:
In comment 16015031 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


then I was all out. It looks like he still thinks hes a head coach. I think it will be a long road back to respectibility for him and he probably never gets another head coaching gig. Without the BB endorsement he probably doesnt get hired here either.

I just remember thinking who the hell is Joe Judge, then endorsed by BB and then I bought in. He said all the right things. Now lookingback at what a disaster he was is just sad. How much damage he did to this team. Imagine Jones playing a 3rd year under him he would beout of the league.



Thank goodness for those sneaks. The brass was planning to keep him, but the sneaks caused an about face.


It was like Gollum throwing the ring of power into the pits of Mt. Doom because Mara did not have the moral strength to do it himself.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You  
Mike in NY : 1/26/2023 6:09 pm : link
In comment 16015129 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
In comment 16015109 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16015104 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Is that confirmed?

Obviously, Mara wanted Judge to have HC training wheels and pushed for Garrett...



Yes. Sources: Bills denied Giants permission to interview offensive coordinator Brian Daboll - ( New Window )



My question is did Daboll really want to come? You would have to think there was some back channel communication prior to requesting the interview. If he was willing to give up coaching Josh Allen for a lateral move that would make you think he didn't like McDermott very much.


I believe that there was some tension as McDermott could have been forceful against the critics who wanted Daboll to run the ball more even though they didn’t have a strong run blocking OL or any worthwhile RB’s.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2023 6:19 pm : link
Thank God for Steve Tisch, who had to-from multiple reports-push John to fire Judge.

I was a Judge defender in 2020 & going into 2021, but he lost me last season. And after that Bears post game presser...I would have fired him on the spot.

In hindsight, Judge should have taken the job in Starksville.
I was one of the last defenders of Judge..  
Sean : 1/26/2023 6:28 pm : link
But it’s clear he was no way suited to be a HC. He had no answers last year and seeing what Daboll did with largely the same roster confirms it. Jones regressed under Judge and now you see why.
I wonder if Judge can even go back to being special teams coordinator  
Ivan15 : 1/26/2023 7:54 pm : link
Somewhere. He may not have been very good at that job but was protected by Belichick.
RE: You  
The Mike : 1/26/2023 9:11 pm : link
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.


Thank God for you and BBI! "This ain't no clown show" marked the unraveling of Captain Queeg and his loose marbles. This alone qualifies BBI for the 2022 NFL Football Forum of the Year award! Judge's dismissal completely changed the trajectory of this franchise. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare 2022 would have been if Judge was still here. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it!

Well played, Eric. Kudos!
RE: RE: You  
RELICDOA : 1/26/2023 10:49 pm : link
In comment 16015422 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16015098 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


have to wonder what is going on in Judge's head when he sees what Daboll did. Remember, Judge wanted to hire Daboll.



Thank God for you and BBI! "This ain't no clown show" marked the unraveling of Captain Queeg and his loose marbles. This alone qualifies BBI for the 2022 NFL Football Forum of the Year award! Judge's dismissal completely changed the trajectory of this franchise. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare 2022 would have been if Judge was still here. Makes me nauseous just thinking about it!

Well played, Eric. Kudos!

+1
I think Judge has some ability but  
bc4life : 1/27/2023 7:29 am : link
might be a good idea for him to sit back and evaluate what isn't working for him.
I think he's legitimately out of his mind.  
mittenedman : 1/27/2023 9:43 am : link
Like everyone else I was initially impressed by him, but I quickly became worried listening to his press conferences. Remember some of those essay responses to simple questions? It was ugly. Thank God the guy came completely unglued that last 1/2 season here, or he might still be here.

Conversely, his toxic attitude may have been the final straw that unleashed the hell within Giants walls. He may have been a necessary evil for them to finally clean house.





And he would've been  
mittenedman : 1/27/2023 9:44 am : link
perfect for that Mississippi St. job.

This happens in all walks of life - sometimes the lesser job offer is actually the better fit.
Judge was a good coach his first year?  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 1/27/2023 11:06 am : link
Lol 6-10 is a good coach?
One of my favorite Joe Judge-isms that is overlooked  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 1/27/2023 11:09 am : link
is when he did the whole "Listen, a lot of ex-teammates call me up and say they still want to play for me."

Very reminscent of "Hey, listen all my ex-girlfriends still call me up and say they still want to be with me."

The 3rd and 9 QB sneak, the "we're not a clown show", the long winded answers. Even when he went on public record and blasted the Eagles because they didn't help us sneak in with our 6-10 record was cringy.

Thank God he's no longer coach.
Judge and Mississippi St  
ghost718 : 1/27/2023 11:37 am : link
I don't think this was a sure thing to happen

There's a good chance they weren't buying the accent
I never favored Judge  
Producer : 1/27/2023 12:26 pm : link
as I don't like tough talking people. They're usually overcompensating. But I feel bad for Judge now. I hope he finds a spot that works for him.
This whole thing just shows you ...  
DefenseWins : 1/27/2023 12:41 pm : link
how inept John Mara's decision making has been.

The biggest mystery that I would like to get revealed is who finally got through to him? Who held the gun to Mara's head and forced him to go outside of his comfort zone? Who truly hired Schoen?

This whole thing feels like when the stupid kid in class turns in his book report but someone else clearly wrote it for him.
RE: Judge was a good coach his first year?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/27/2023 12:51 pm : link
In comment 16015812 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Lol 6-10 is a good coach?


This place was CONVINCED they were on the right track after that year. I was one of them. It was enough to have some comfort level with.
can't just go by that 6-10 record  
bc4life : 1/27/2023 9:01 pm : link
inherited an undertalented team. saw some glimmers of light his first year. second year, more injuries, and his coaching style wore on players. If you're going to mimic BB's style you better get results fast or team will turn on you
DefenseWins  
cosmicj : 1/27/2023 9:11 pm : link
Haha. Classic post.
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