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Had to go back an revisit Ojulari's season to forget

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 12:59 pm
The injury story was almost comical.

Ojulari missed the first three weeks of training camp with a hamstring injury. He then hurt his right calf in training camp and missed the first two regular-season games of the season. Then in Week 4, Ojulari injured his left calf. After waiting for three weeks for it to improve, the Giants finally put him on Injured Reserve. Ojulari did not return to the active roster until early December, missing two full months. He then left the Week 16 game early with an ankle injury and barely played the following week. He was held out of the regular-season finale and then came out of the playoff game against the Vikings with a quad contusion.

In all, Ojulari played in seven regular-season games with five starts. (And again, in two of those games, he left early and another he barely played).
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Injuries tend to build on one another  
mfjmfj : 1/26/2023 1:24 pm : link
especially if you are pushing to come back. Lack of strength in one spot plus unbalanced movement from an injury just leads to different injuries else where. Hopefully, that is all that happened, and 6 months off will let his body reset to a healthy place. The knee problem that was a concern predraft has not yet shown up, but actually should be relevant when 2nd contract discussions are had.
Meanwhile  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 1:31 pm : link
in reviewing Jihad Ward, I think he's still very much underrated. This was his best season in his seven years in the NFL. He's not a flashy guy but he's an important cog. He's one of those guys who I hope they re-sign.
I remember in camp they were talking about how "jacked"  
Blue21 : 1/26/2023 1:32 pm : link
He got in the off season. Over worked his body maybe? Stronger but softer if that makes sense. Not a criticism but just a question.
Ojulari's younger brother in this upcoming draft and I have seen him..  
GiantBlue : 1/26/2023 1:33 pm : link
mocked in the first round right around where we are picking.

Do you draft his brother?

I, myself would prefer a #1 WR with that pick.
Two things.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2023 1:35 pm : link
One, he swelled up in the offseason. There was a picture of him sitting next to Andrew Thomas and he looked bigger than Thomas. Might be a correlation between that and his muscle injuries.

Two, I saw him during the Eagles game and there were times, with limited reps mind you, where he put in little to no effort. It was embarrassing.
RE: Remarkably  
joeinpa : 1/26/2023 1:40 pm : link
In comment 16014817 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
while he had only 14 tackles, he also had 5.5 sacks! The sack figure was second on the team.


Yep, you nailed it. Best pass rusher on the team, not very good against the run

I don’t know if you re a listener to BBK, but Howard Cross has more than once stated these guys are sound too tight. Says the way his era trained was just about being an athlete and not focused on being so explosive

Not ready to write AO off. There is definitely a place for an upper echelon edge rusher
I sure hope Ojulari can handle the extra weight  
George from PA : 1/26/2023 1:42 pm : link
Thibs and Ojulari should help each other with a healthy Williams and Dex...will pressure QB.

Ojulari might be an Osi....pass rush specialist....I am fine with that.

Keep Ward and more Thumpers types to stop run.
RE: Two things.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2023 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16014898 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
One, he swelled up in the offseason. There was a picture of him sitting next to Andrew Thomas and he looked bigger than Thomas. Might be a correlation between that and his muscle injuries.

Two, I saw him during the Eagles game and there were times, with limited reps mind you, where he put in little to no effort. It was embarrassing.




Here.
When a guy has an injury history like this  
gersh : 1/26/2023 1:49 pm : link
There is more to the story that we don’t know about.

Also, significant to his future here is how hard he works to get back on the field and the teams/teammates perception of that effort
RE: Meanwhile  
islander1 : 1/26/2023 1:54 pm : link
In comment 16014887 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in reviewing Jihad Ward, I think he's still very much underrated. This was his best season in his seven years in the NFL. He's not a flashy guy but he's an important cog. He's one of those guys who I hope they re-sign.


100%, both on the field and apparently in the locker room too.
RE: Ojulari & Neal  
Brown_Hornet : 1/26/2023 1:55 pm : link
In comment 16014829 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Are massive question marks for 2023. You need more pass rushing regardless but if he has another injury plagued season you have to consider moving on. Stinks because his ability has shown when healthy. Neal, not yet.
Hard for me to wrap my head around anyone suggesting that Neal is an OG or that he has "massive question marks."

I have zero worries about him.

That said, the Giants will need to address ER in the offseason.
Hopefully  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/26/2023 2:01 pm : link
he can adjust his training. Good player and we need them all.

Still two years on his rookie deal so lets hope a big rebound. I do remember the injury concerns in the draft. Hopefully another draft brings more of a rotation.

Wink loves Ward and he said in training camp he would want him wherever he is coaching. I expect him back if he does not price himself out.
We need to get a Edge rusher  
JerrysKids : 1/26/2023 2:02 pm : link
Azeez is way too fragile to play in the NFL. I would like to find a starter to replace him and have Azeez as a rotational pass rusher. Important role but not a core guy it appears because of his unreliability.
Being an early pick from the previous General Manager  
ThomasG : 1/26/2023 2:10 pm : link
is not a known negative for Ojulari unless someone here knows Schoen's original grade on him when he was in Buffalo.

And Edge Rushers are far too valuable to not let it all play out. Ojulari will get his chance to get healthy and stay on the field, and if he puts up some respectable film over the next two seasons then he isn't going anywhere.
Giants need to devise and monitor his offseason training program  
Rick in Dallas : 1/26/2023 2:16 pm : link
When he does play he is very effective
We can only hope he remains healthy next year.
Didn’t he have a significant injury history at Georgia?
RE: To state the obvious, the parts are all connected.  
k2tampa : 1/26/2023 2:20 pm : link
In comment 16014832 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Ojulari slid because of his injury risk, and now he’s missing multiple games for hurting himself while jogging.


To actually state the obvious. The potential for arthritis in his knee in the future (where pain will be the issue) is not at all connected to pulled and bruised muscles now. He has had no issue at all with his knee, not even soreness.
He is going to try something differnet in the offseason ...  
David_Upstate : 1/26/2023 2:20 pm : link
Azeez Ojulari said he was in pain tonight, but he tried to push through. "This season has been so tough."

Ojulari said he'll try some different things, like yoga, this offseason to prevent injuries. He had never missed a game at Georgia or during his rookie season.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Being an early pick from the previous General Manager  
JonC : 1/26/2023 3:06 pm : link
In comment 16014956 ThomasG said:
Quote:
is not a known negative for Ojulari unless someone here knows Schoen's original grade on him when he was in Buffalo.


Or, someone heard something. It's one season, but he only has a brief #2 pick contract with two years already gone. Ojulari wasn't available in 2022, and NYG already has a handful of core guys establishing themselves for second contracts. Ojulari is now behind.

NYG can't keep everyone, let alone year after year.
I think we give him one more shot...  
DefenseWins : 1/26/2023 3:15 pm : link
but if he is hurt during training camp and pre-season, then we have to move on from him.
RE: Ojulari is a pick of the prior regime  
ColHowPepper : 1/26/2023 3:27 pm : link
In comment 16014864 JonC said:
Quote:
I doubt he gets a second deal here.

Neal will be fine, be patient.
I hope this is right. It does mean that Schoen needs to find another ER/OLB amonst a slew of other needs, but this need has been known all season, imo, whether or not Ojulari dressed and played. A lot of eye candy with him.
RE: RE: Ojulari is a pick of the prior regime  
JonC : 1/26/2023 3:35 pm : link
In comment 16015082 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 16014864 JonC said:

Quote:


I doubt he gets a second deal here.

Neal will be fine, be patient.

I hope this is right. It does mean that Schoen needs to find another ER/OLB amonst a slew of other needs, but this need has been known all season, imo, whether or not Ojulari dressed and played. A lot of eye candy with him.


I'm interested to see how they pick edges from now, because the Bills edges are more 3-4 styled players, who are big, stout, and play a rugged two way game. Patriots tend to play edges who are expected to contain, set the edge, and funnel inside as a core job, and Ojulari struggles with it. There have been questions regarding toughness and effort.
Very Frustrating  
Crazed Dogs : 1/26/2023 3:41 pm : link
5.5 sacks, three forced fumbles, one fumble recovery in such limited playing time....Agree with Eric's post ... thing is if this guy can somehow turn it around and stay healthy next year... awesome.
RE: Meanwhile  
BlueHurricane : 1/26/2023 3:44 pm : link
In comment 16014887 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in reviewing Jihad Ward, I think he's still very much underrated. This was his best season in his seven years in the NFL. He's not a flashy guy but he's an important cog. He's one of those guys who I hope they re-sign.


I agree. I like Haddy a lot. Would like him back.
Interesting convo here  
Rjanyg : 1/26/2023 3:45 pm : link
AO had 8 sacks his rookie season and didn't miss a game.

Everybody was saying he needed to add weight to help with his run game. He went from 240 as a rookie to 250. Now, we can speculate as to how that weight was put on but injuries tend to happen if you overtrain.

For those giving up on Ojulari I think it's premature.

I will say that Tomon Fox is a guy I can see taking a leap forward next year. He did a good job setting the edge and could improve as a pass rusher. I also think Ward should be re-signed.

BJ Ojulari is very good and should be available with pick 25.
It wouldn't surprise  
YANKEE28 : 1/26/2023 3:50 pm : link
me to see the Giants draft an edge rusher in the 1st.

Edge rusher is a rotational position and a solid team has 3.

And this draft is loaded with edge rushers. 20 were invited to the Senior Bowl.

Keep an eye on Keion White, who has the much larger frame that Jon C mentions (and I agree is a better fit).

White played at Old Dominion with Oshane Ximines before finishing his college career with a really outstanding year at Georgia Tech.
RE: It wouldn't surprise  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 3:52 pm : link
In comment 16015108 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
me to see the Giants draft an edge rusher in the 1st.

Edge rusher is a rotational position and a solid team has 3.

And this draft is loaded with edge rushers. 20 were invited to the Senior Bowl.

Keep an eye on Keion White, who has the much larger frame that Jon C mentions (and I agree is a better fit).

White played at Old Dominion with Oshane Ximines before finishing his college career with a really outstanding year at Georgia Tech.


Oshane surprised people by making this team and playing better, but man, he really has the tools to be better than he has been. He just doesn't make enough plays.
Eric  
YANKEE28 : 1/26/2023 3:57 pm : link
I have always had a hard time rooting for Ximines because I was screaming and pounding the table for Maxx Crosby when the Giants took Ximines.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2023 4:01 pm : link
In comment 16015119 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
I have always had a hard time rooting for Ximines because I was screaming and pounding the table for Maxx Crosby when the Giants took Ximines.


Ouch. Thanks for reminding us.
Moving forward  
Colin@gbn : 1/26/2023 4:03 pm : link
Eric et al: Really good point Eric; certainly was frustrating but it is football and players get injured. I'd be more concerned if it happened again next year. That said, i have banging the proverbial table of late suggesting that what I would like to see the Giants do would be to look at a guy like USC's Tuipulotu (who is a 290-pound DE who had 12 sacks last year) as someone who could come in and play DE on early downs and then kick inside on passing downs and if they didn't get someone like that in Rd 1 this year I could see them looking to trade up into the early in the second to get one.

And I know we've focused a lot on the OL and receivers so far when looking ahead to 2023 but my sense is that for the Giants to make a leap the key could be the DL. There is a ton of potential there but this year Williams, Thibo and Az combined for only 12 sacks when one could make the case that each one of them has the potential to get close to that number themselves.
RE: RE: RE: Ojulari is a pick of the prior regime  
Angel Eyes : 1/26/2023 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16015092 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16015082 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


In comment 16014864 JonC said:

Quote:


I doubt he gets a second deal here.

Neal will be fine, be patient.

I hope this is right. It does mean that Schoen needs to find another ER/OLB amonst a slew of other needs, but this need has been known all season, imo, whether or not Ojulari dressed and played. A lot of eye candy with him.



I'm interested to see how they pick edges from now, because the Bills edges are more 3-4 styled players, who are big, stout, and play a rugged two way game. Patriots tend to play edges who are expected to contain, set the edge, and funnel inside as a core job, and Ojulari struggles with it. There have been questions regarding toughness and effort.

I thought Buffalo employs a 4-3 defense.
They use a hybrid (as NYG does)  
JonC : 1/26/2023 4:08 pm : link
and many of their front seven players are 3-4 base players.
Let me get this straight ...  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2023 4:36 pm : link
Ojulari had one injury ridden season and people are saying he shouldn't be on the team next year? Holy fuckin shit. This place gets some interesting people.
RE: RE: Eric  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/26/2023 5:01 pm : link
In comment 16015123 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16015119 YANKEE28 said:


Quote:


I have always had a hard time rooting for Ximines because I was screaming and pounding the table for Maxx Crosby when the Giants took Ximines.



Ouch. Thanks for reminding us.


Another example of Gettleman using Walter Football mock drafts as his draft prep (jk.... kinda)
RE: Let me get this straight ...  
GiantGrit : 1/26/2023 5:26 pm : link
In comment 16015171 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Ojulari had one injury ridden season and people are saying he shouldn't be on the team next year? Holy fuckin shit. This place gets some interesting people.


Who said that? No one said they want him off the team next year. Valid points were made on how many years he has remaining and the people in charge are not the ones who brought him in.

Thomas, Lawrence, McKinney are now or soon due extensions. Jones, possibly Saquon and Love may also be back.

The Giants also have a dearth of talent - you’d like him to be a solution but he has good trade value. Giants need picks.

I think they let him play out next year and if the team is struggling you recoup picks for him.
RE: Let me get this straight ...  
JonC : 1/26/2023 5:32 pm : link
In comment 16015171 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Ojulari had one injury ridden season and people are saying he shouldn't be on the team next year? Holy fuckin shit. This place gets some interesting people.


No one said that.
RE: Let me get this straight ...  
Angel Eyes : 1/26/2023 5:35 pm : link
In comment 16015171 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Ojulari had one injury ridden season and people are saying he shouldn't be on the team next year? Holy fuckin shit. This place gets some interesting people.

Where did any of us say that?

On the other hand playing what's essentially the power end in a 4-3 (ie Michael Strahan) might not be the best fit for him.
RE: RE: Let me get this straight ...  
DefenseWins : 1/26/2023 5:39 pm : link
In comment 16015243 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16015171 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Ojulari had one injury ridden season and people are saying he shouldn't be on the team next year? Holy fuckin shit. This place gets some interesting people.



No one said that.


Yeah, I probably came the closest to saying something like that, but clearly said I wanted to give him another year.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2023 6:24 pm : link
I gotta imagine Ward will be back unless some team offers him loco coin.
How  
AcidTest : 1/26/2023 6:37 pm : link
about Elerson Smith? Hie's hardly played in two seasons. Seems like next camp and preseason are "make or break" for him.
RE: How  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/26/2023 6:41 pm : link
In comment 16015305 AcidTest said:
Quote:
about Elerson Smith? Hie's hardly played in two seasons. Seems like next camp and preseason are "make or break" for him.


Another shit Gettleman pick.
RE: How  
kash94 : 1/26/2023 7:07 pm : link
In comment 16015305 AcidTest said:
Quote:
about Elerson Smith? Hie's hardly played in two seasons. Seems like next camp and preseason are "make or break" for him.


Not only that but he skipped his final college season due to COVID.

Essentially 0 playing time in three years.

RE: How  
Angel Eyes : 1/26/2023 7:23 pm : link
In comment 16015305 AcidTest said:
Quote:
about Elerson Smith? Hie's hardly played in two seasons. Seems like next camp and preseason are "make or break" for him.

I wanted Rhamondre Stevenson instead of Smith.
RE: RE: Being an early pick from the previous General Manager  
ThomasG : 1/26/2023 7:37 pm : link
In comment 16015055 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16014956 ThomasG said:


Quote:


is not a known negative for Ojulari unless someone here knows Schoen's original grade on him when he was in Buffalo.




Or, someone heard something. It's one season, but he only has a brief #2 pick contract with two years already gone. Ojulari wasn't available in 2022, and NYG already has a handful of core guys establishing themselves for second contracts. Ojulari is now behind.

NYG can't keep everyone, let alone year after year.


Agreed, but probably don't need to be prematurely pulling the plug on Ojularu with several years to go on his current structure. And certainly not because the NY Giants have so many good core players already lined up in front of him waiting to be paid.

There is simply nothing to concern ourselves with (cap-wise) coming out of Ojulari's draft class which included Kadarius Toney, himself, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Gary Brightwell and Rodarius Williams. And the draft class in front of his only has Andrew Thomas and Xavier Mckinney that will command higher end deals but no one else. So for a two-year period of draftees, I would think Ojulari is safe enough to get paid if he indeed gets himself on the field consistently and performs. That is the key issue.
No one said pull the plug on Ojulari now  
JonC : 1/26/2023 9:05 pm : link
Let's read carefully, it's getting annoying.
Agreed, let's let the next year or so play out before  
ThomasG : 1/26/2023 9:19 pm : link
we doubt today that he won't get a second contract.
You do you  
JonC : 1/26/2023 9:20 pm : link
I've got my own opinions and info.
Well hopefully Ojulari can turn around this stigma he has  
ThomasG : 1/26/2023 9:57 pm : link
of being a 'Dead Man Walking' sometime before the next two years are over.
22 yr old guy  
Breeze_94 : 1/26/2023 10:29 pm : link
Why are we giving up on him around here?

Played all 17 as a rookie, broke the franchise rookie sack record.

2nd on team this year in basically 5.5 games.

He’s a double digit sack guy when healthy. Had bad injury luck this year. As pointed out, one injury causes overcompensation and leads to another.

Give him a whole offseason to train and improve his durability. He’ll be fine.
Need to Add Players...NOT Subtract!  
Rafflee : 1/28/2023 9:49 am : link
The big question on Azeez (and Thibs) is playing them together on heavy snap counts...they're not great edge setters and they aren't versatile positionally. I like both, but the Giants need a better and more talented Mix. That means Adding Guys.
Yes, adding good versatile players is always a goal  
gersh : 1/28/2023 10:47 pm : link
But saying we need players more talented than Thibs?
His talent level is elite
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