Jason Garrett on DJ with Chris Russo today

HAHA. 'Said he was in a bad environment'...

Perhaps I'm losing it, but wasn't Jason Garrett our very own OC for 1 1/2 years when DJ was here? Haha. Talk about a self own. And Garrett was a disaster as OC. And I will forever think Mara forced him on JJ.

And as I recall he wasn't asked but brought it up himself.

In comment 16016348 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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HAHA. 'Said he was in a bad environment'... Perhaps I'm losing it, but wasn't Jason Garrett our very own OC for 1 1/2 years when DJ was here? Haha. Talk about a self own. And Garrett was a disaster as OC. And I will forever think Mara forced him on JJ.

I think looking back Garrett looks better than Judge. I’m sure if you asked Garrett privately he’d tell you Judge was a buffoon. And the bad environment comment probably speaks to that.

You had your view of Jones, but were open minded, listened objectively to the fact presented, saw his performance with your own eyes, understood how the obstacles before this season (and even the offensive talent limitations this season) really hindered him, and then reversed your stance.

Good on you...

I don't doubt that. Look @ the articles leaking from the Boston papers...

If Judge had a mulligan, he takes the Mississippi State HC job & he's someone 95% of BBI has never heard of.

I said it when he got fired...I'd be SHOCKED if he's ever even interviewed for a HC position in the NFL again. The ending here was THAT bad. We were a national punchline. I had coworkers-some of whom know next to nothing about football-giving me cracks about the Giants.

In comment 16016356 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I don't doubt that. Look @ the articles leaking from the Boston papers... If Judge had a mulligan, he takes the Mississippi State HC job & he's someone 95% of BBI has never heard of. I said it when he got fired...I'd be SHOCKED if he's ever even interviewed for a HC position in the NFL again. The ending here was THAT bad. We were a national punchline. I had coworkers-some of whom know next to nothing about football-giving me cracks about the Giants.

This is true all kinds of stories coming out about Judge and how much Mac Jones disliked the offense.Mac Jones was very vocal during games questioning the offense playcalling. Now I m sure some of this was probably aimed at Patricia too. But ghe papers are really criticizing Judge. But Daniel Jones kept his mouth shut and took the abuse himself without excuses and he and Garrett you can tell liked and respect each another.

Eric's daughter's drawing was very prescient... lol. Or maybe it was just so obvious we couldn't see it (out of the mouths of babes...?)

I for one am embarrassed that that guy had me hook line and sinker, until the QB sneaks and his last press conference.

And I don't think Garrett is a good OC, but I don't think he was a bad head coach for Dallas. I think Dak is holding that team back and he paid the price.

In comment 16016360 Johnny5 said:

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Eric's daughter's drawing was very prescient... lol. Or maybe it was just so obvious we couldn't see it (out of the mouths of babes...?) I for one am embarrassed that that guy had me hook line and sinker, until the QB sneaks and his last press conference. And I don't think Garrett is a good OC, but I don't think he was a bad head coach for Dallas. I think Dak is holding that team back and he paid the price.

I was ready to give him the keys to the franchise after 2020. Oof.

Yeah, I read the articles. No love lost between Judge & Mac Jones. That said, Jones struck me as a petulant child at times this season. You're the QB & supposed leader of the team. Act like it.

BB made a smart hire in O'Brien, but I think BB is @ the point of his life/coaching career where he just wants to work with people he likes. Hell, aren't two of his sons on the staff? Haha. Imagine Dabs doing that? Haha. BBI would blow a gasket. But BB has the pelts on the wall so...

A very nice guy. Was decent in Dallas-still has a winning record. Probably would be better to have fired Judge rather than Jason. That was an epic mistake. EPIC.
Garrett I think managed to help DJ with ball control, maybe some progressions but the scheme was crap

And I’m not trying to kill Jones here. But the thing that sticks out to me whenever anyone talks about Jones is how great a guy he is. How hard he works. And that’s all great. But none of these coaches, ex coaches, etc ever jump right to actual performance on the field. Almost always, the biggest compliments are personality based. We may get a “he’s done everything we’ve asked of him” every now and then but I’m not even sure how complimentary that is. They’ve said the same thing about Golladay and Toney.

If Jones is going to be the franchise QB, I’d like to start seeing people enamored with his QB abilities a bit more. Being a hard worker and a nice guy are fantastic traits, for sure. But tell us more about the on field stuff. Other than “his legs are a weapon”.

Fair post.

I'm hesitant about giving DJ insane coin because I think Dabs could coach up me to a competent QB. I think Schoen & Dabs know that though.

In comment 16016360 Johnny5 said:

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Eric's daughter's drawing was very prescient... lol. Or maybe it was just so obvious we couldn't see it (out of the mouths of babes...?) I for one am embarrassed that that guy had me hook line and sinker, until the QB sneaks and his last press conference. And I don't think Garrett is a good OC, but I don't think he was a bad head coach for Dallas. I think Dak is holding that team back and he paid the price.

I was fully off-board after the Miami game in 2021. Nine freakin points, and after the game (because he had just fired Garrett after the TB game, and had no more scapegoats) he was talking about how good they were playing and he liked what he was seeing blah blah blah

Quote:

There was a lot of things that I saw today in the way we played, a lot of things that are moving in the right direction, a lot of things I'm very pleased with in terms of how we competed... I saw a lot of players make a lot of big plays.

Total alternate reality stuff.

In comment 16016389 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Fair post.

I mean, when these same guys get asked about Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc, etc, all the top QBs we don’t get told how respectful they are and how hard they work right off the bat. We get told how freakin awesome they are on the field. And they break down WHY the are so good. Strong arm, mobility within the pocket, off platform throws, laser precision, ability to see the entire field, on and on. It is just assumed that they are hard workers. We don’t need to be told that constantly.

A CEO when he hired Judge. Too bad the “C” stood for Crap!

That’s a good post and I noticed when Schoen said “he’s done everything we’ve asked” multiple times that it seemed strange to me. You wouldn’t hear that with Mahomes & Burrow. It just screams “managing the game”.

In comment 16016386 BigBlueShock said:

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And I’m not trying to kill Jones here. But the thing that sticks out to me whenever anyone talks about Jones is how great a guy he is. How hard he works. And that’s all great. But none of these coaches, ex coaches, etc ever jump right to actual performance on the field. Almost always, the biggest compliments are personality based. We may get a “he’s done everything we’ve asked of him” every now and then but I’m not even sure how complimentary that is. They’ve said the same thing about Golladay and Toney. If Jones is going to be the franchise QB, I’d like to start seeing people enamored with his QB abilities a bit more. Being a hard worker and a nice guy are fantastic traits, for sure. But tell us more about the on field stuff. Other than “his legs are a weapon”.

Really well said, BBS.

.

In comment 16016414 Sean said:

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That’s a good post and I noticed when Schoen said “he’s done everything we’ve asked” multiple times that it seemed strange to me. You wouldn’t hear that with Mahomes & Burrow. It just screams “managing the game”.

People still look at "game manager" as an insult. Once you realize that's at the root of people who are fans of his, everything else falls into place.

In comment 16016414 Sean said:

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That’s a good post and I noticed when Schoen said “he’s done everything we’ve asked” multiple times that it seemed strange to me. You wouldn’t hear that with Mahomes & Burrow. It just screams “managing the game”.

Sure but that doesn’t mean that’s all they think he can do. It’s quite possible they knew the lack of talent around him and how hamstrung the O really was.

Looks to me like they really put an emphasis on limiting turnovers and knew that was gojng to be a huge part of them competing. I think we’ve barely scratched the surface of what they envision the O to be and this year was doing the best they could with what they had. I don’t take that as a knock on DJ, just following his coach’s plans and doing what was asked of him each game.

In comment 16016414 Sean said:

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That’s a good post and I noticed when Schoen said “he’s done everything we’ve asked” multiple times that it seemed strange to me. You wouldn’t hear that with Mahomes & Burrow. It just screams “managing the game”.

Because people were asking Schoen if the Giants wanted to bring him back. Mahomes' and Burrows' coaches are not getting asked that question. There is also a negotiation going on. Schoen isn't going to gush about Jones when he has to go negotiate a contract.

In comment 16016386 BigBlueShock said:

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And I’m not trying to kill Jones here. But the thing that sticks out to me whenever anyone talks about Jones is how great a guy he is. How hard he works. And that’s all great. But none of these coaches, ex coaches, etc ever jump right to actual performance on the field. Almost always, the biggest compliments are personality based. We may get a “he’s done everything we’ve asked of him” every now and then but I’m not even sure how complimentary that is. They’ve said the same thing about Golladay and Toney. If Jones is going to be the franchise QB, I’d like to start seeing people enamored with his QB abilities a bit more. Being a hard worker and a nice guy are fantastic traits, for sure. But tell us more about the on field stuff. Other than “his legs are a weapon”.

He won games and was a Reason That they won games...with too many low impact players around him. He hasn't been and may never become the be all end all, but he showed clutch throwing and effective running, and played a lot of smart football--and he's not perfect.

There's no reason to start at Bedrock... signing Jones doesn't stop any future consideration. This might be a different discussion if they were sitting at #1 in the draft

He got fired and the offense got worse

It was Judge, the now hated in New England used car salesman who conned the maras etc. out of millions. Jesse James stole much less yet is much more enshrined as a notorious villain. go figure. go giants.

In comment 16016414 Sean said:

Quote:

That’s a good post and I noticed when Schoen said “he’s done everything we’ve asked” multiple times that it seemed strange to me. You wouldn’t hear that with Mahomes & Burrow. It just screams “managing the game”.

100% believe thats you reading into the narrative that you want to read into. Saying that someone's done everything theyve asked of as an employer is phenomenal. There are a ton of gifted athletes that coast on talent. DJ has proven that he's willing to put as much work and effort into succeeding which is more than half the battle

I don't want to deal with the brushback. I think what is being discussed here is that DJ is within a hair of being able to be a great QB. The question is can he cross over that hair and I just don't think that the game can break down for him into a draw the plays in the sand and adapt on the fly like many of the greats have been able to do. I don't know if the game gets smaller for him, if that makes sense. That being said he's a damn good QB who won me over this year when he was completing passes over the middle for 10-15 yards on third down. As fans we are trying to figure out his worth as if it is that black and white. We wouldn't pay this but we would pay this, but we are forgetting the Giants are a class organization, not really a cut throat one, and they are probably are going to sign him for more rather than less. And the same with Barkley. I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them.

I don't want to deal with the brushback. I think what is being discussed here is that DJ is within a hair of being able to be a great QB. The question is can he cross over that hair and I just don't think that the game can break down for him into a draw the plays in the sand and adapt on the fly like many of the greats have been able to do. I don't know if the game gets smaller for him, if that makes sense. That being said he's a damn good QB who won me over this year when he was completing passes over the middle for 10-15 yards on third down. As fans we are trying to figure out his worth as if it is that black and white. We wouldn't pay this but we would pay this, but we are forgetting the Giants are a class organization, not really a cut throat one, and they are probably are going to sign him for more rather than less. And the same with Barkley. I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them.

In comment 16016513 sec308 said:

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I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them.

Then why overpay them? Because they are easy to root for? I'd prefer winning a championship.

In comment 16016527 NYG07 said:

Quote:

In comment 16016513 sec308 said: Quote: I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them. Then why overpay them? Because they are easy to root for? I'd prefer winning a championship.

This doesn't even make any sense. We made it to the divisional round with arguably the least amount of talent on the overall roster than any other team in the playoffs. DJ and Saquon are two of the best players on the squad. If we build the team around them, it's only logical that we can actually go further in the playoffs than we did this year.

In comment 16016386 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

And I’m not trying to kill Jones here. But the thing that sticks out to me whenever anyone talks about Jones is how great a guy he is. How hard he works. And that’s all great. But none of these coaches, ex coaches, etc ever jump right to actual performance on the field. Almost always, the biggest compliments are personality based. We may get a “he’s done everything we’ve asked of him” every now and then but I’m not even sure how complimentary that is. They’ve said the same thing about Golladay and Toney. If Jones is going to be the franchise QB, I’d like to start seeing people enamored with his QB abilities a bit more. Being a hard worker and a nice guy are fantastic traits, for sure. But tell us more about the on field stuff. Other than “his legs are a weapon”.

Yeah, i think a lot is said by how it's said and what's not said. I feel the and as you

In comment 16016487 thrunthrublue said:

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It was Judge, the now hated in New England used car salesman who conned the maras etc. out of millions. Jesse James stole much less yet is much more enshrined as a notorious villain. go figure. go giants.

Jesse james was also a cold blooded murderer and racist though so that might have singing to do wit it

In comment 16016527 NYG07 said:

Quote:

In comment 16016513 sec308 said: Quote: I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them. Then why overpay them? Because they are easy to root for? I'd prefer winning a championship.

Again, you like winning championships so you have ideas. The Giants have won 4 since 1986. Sometimes you play with the cards you're dealt.

In comment 16016530 Johnny5 said:

Quote:

In comment 16016527 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 16016513 sec308 said: Quote: I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them. Then why overpay them? Because they are easy to root for? I'd prefer winning a championship. This doesn't even make any sense. We made it to the divisional round with arguably the least amount of talent on the overall roster than any other team in the playoffs. DJ and Saquon are two of the best players on the squad. If we build the team around them, it's only logical that we can actually go further in the playoffs than we did this year.

The dilemma is that we will not be able to build around them if we pay them the money they expect. That's the dilemma, unless you can explain to me how we can.

Yes, Jason gets all the blame here, and to a point, rightfully so. But let's consider this:

1) Gettleman did Garrett (and thus Daniel Jones) no favors with the offensive line we had. I don't care if you had Andy Reid here as OC, no one was going to have a productive offense with that line.

2) Did we see Garrett's real offense? Jason wasn't the head coach, he had to adjust his offense not only to account for the bad OL, but deal with Judge as well (who probably wanted HIS offense run).

We saw Judge coming almost to blows with the Offensive line coach, and then getting rid of him. We also see Judge arguing with Belichick, and pissing off Mac Jones.This guy is poison to an offensive staff.

Now, I'm NOT saying Garrett was a great OC (they took his duties away in Dallas after he became a HC). He's no where near Daboll...but I don't think he's as bad as what he showed with the Giants. I think he'd do ok in the right spot (the Titans, for example).

In comment 16016530 Johnny5 said:

Quote:

In comment 16016527 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 16016513 sec308 said: Quote: I've come to terms that this will happen, and I've come to terms that we will be mediocre for the probably the next five years. It's better than sucking, and I like Jones and Barkley as people. I like rooting for them. Then why overpay them? Because they are easy to root for? I'd prefer winning a championship. This doesn't even make any sense. We made it to the divisional round with arguably the least amount of talent on the overall roster than any other team in the playoffs. DJ and Saquon are two of the best players on the squad. If we build the team around them, it's only logical that we can actually go further in the playoffs than we did this year.

How does it not make sense? Are you just going to ignore that overpaying them puts an enormous strain on the cap? Don't forget that Thomas and Lawrence have huge contracts on the horizon. At least $20M AAV each.

How about the fact that Leonard Williams and Adoree are on the last year of their contracts? So in addition to the most glaring needs (WR, LB, and IOL), add defensive line and cornerback to the list. Additionally, it is likely that they will only be able to keep Love or McKinnie, not both.

So how are you planning to build this great team around them? Cap constraints alone will lead to drafting for need and reaching. That is how you end up with Justin Pugh and Ereck Flowers. Plus, the draft is a crap shoot. This leaves Schoen and Daboll virtually no margin for error in drafting.

Lastly, this team desperately needs depth to help with inevitable injuries. Lets say Jones gets 40M and Barkley gets 12M. That is a quarter of the team's total cap space.

So are Jones and Barkley good enough to carry a team with limited overall talent to a Superbowl? They certainly were completely overmatched in the divisional round.

In comment 16016386 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

And I’m not trying to kill Jones here. But the thing that sticks out to me whenever anyone talks about Jones is how great a guy he is. How hard he works. And that’s all great. But none of these coaches, ex coaches, etc ever jump right to actual performance on the field. Almost always, the biggest compliments are personality based. We may get a “he’s done everything we’ve asked of him” every now and then but I’m not even sure how complimentary that is. They’ve said the same thing about Golladay and Toney. If Jones is going to be the franchise QB, I’d like to start seeing people enamored with his QB abilities a bit more. Being a hard worker and a nice guy are fantastic traits, for sure. But tell us more about the on field stuff. Other than “his legs are a weapon”.

A damn good post

In comment 16016554 NYG07 said:

Quote:

Lets say Jones gets 40M and Barkley gets 12M. That is a quarter of the team's total cap space. So are Jones and Barkley good enough to carry a team with limited overall talent to a Superbowl? They certainly were completely overmatched in the divisional round.

How does giving DJ and Saquon big raises make the NY Giants a better team going forward?

No it doesn’t. But, look how easily the Eagles moved off the Wentz deal. I would not give Jones $40M AAV, but I don’t think it’s a 5 year set back. If he flames out they’ll draft a QB and eat a ton of dead cap money for a year.

was a head coach tells you everything you need to know. T

In comment 16016609 Sean said:

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No it doesn’t. But, look how easily the Eagles moved off the Wentz deal. I would not give Jones $40M AAV, but I don’t think it’s a 5 year set back. If he flames out they’ll draft a QB and eat a ton of dead cap money for a year.

Yep. Giants are not giving Jones a Watson, Murray, or even a Mahomes deal and even some of these ugly contracts except for Watsons are heavily frontloaded with guarantees so if team had to they could swallow a ridiculous cap hit in one year as a loss or rebuild year anyway.

Most QB deals outside of the 2 or 3 elite ones will always be more or less 2 yr deals with maybe a 3rd with some cap hit. If Giants backslide or having a stinky season one of these next couple years, they will very likely reset the QB position anyhow to align with their roster.

At some point soon, maybe next season they will have to replace Taylor via draft with a young backup option to develop irregardless given the QB cap hit Jones will entail.

If Sy has guessed right, and the market for Jones is effectively 2 years, at less than the franchise tag(s) value — that is both fair and manageable.

But don’t be fooled, that’s not a big time deal or big vote of confidence. A two year commitment that pays Jones the 13th most per year at his position is a small deal, and implies he has plenty to prove.

I think I fair, Christian, and I feel Jones might too. He can boost his value and worth if he has another top 15 season. And it can become a long term deal with heavy guarantees.

That said, I think there’s a chance those numbers are a non-starter for Jones. If there’s a market for Jones in the Kyler Murray range, it’s malpractice to accept those terms.

At that point Team Jones would play chicken, and probably ultimately accept the franchise tag, rather than lock themselves in to 3 years under value.

got his career killed by Mara placed under the cruel tutelage of the one they call Joe Judge.

In comment 16016599 chick310 said:

Quote:

In comment 16016554 NYG07 said: Quote: Lets say Jones gets 40M and Barkley gets 12M. That is a quarter of the team's total cap space. So are Jones and Barkley good enough to carry a team with limited overall talent to a Superbowl? They certainly were completely overmatched in the divisional round. How does giving DJ and Saquon big raises make the NY Giants a better team going forward?

That's what I'm saying. The only way it makes them a better team is if Jones crosses over to the greatness level. Other than that we sitar mediocrity.

Ravi Shanker, eh Sec308?

The 1st year cap hit is usually moderately lower. Daks for instance was 'only' 19M year 1.

So DJ and Barkley together for 2023 may only be around a 30M cap hit depending on how the contracts are structured.

Now he's an asshole, and you are all on here burying the guy with smart remarks. You people are so predictable.

In comment 16016624 christian said:

Quote:

If Sy has guessed right, and the market for Jones is effectively 2 years, at less than the franchise tag(s) value — that is both fair and manageable. But don’t be fooled, that’s not a big time deal or big vote of confidence. A two year commitment that pays Jones the 13th most per year at his position is a small deal, and implies he has plenty to prove.

If I’m reading your post correctly, you re basically saying the debate about Jones has evolved from:

The Giants don’t believe in Jones, they will be moving on, because if they did they would have picked up his 5 th year option.

To:

If the Giants resign Jones and it s not for super star money, something that was such a foreign idea for his critics, the original narrative wasn’t really wrong, the Giants still don’t believe in him.

In comment 16016695 CornerStone246+17 said:

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The 1st year cap hit is usually moderately lower. Daks for instance was 'only' 19M year 1. So DJ and Barkley together for 2023 may only be around a 30M cap hit depending on how the contracts are structured.

That is even worse. That means the cap hit is even higher than $40M in future years. In no way would I want to see DJ's cap number ballooning to over $50M.

In comment 16016718 NYG07 said:

Quote:

In comment 16016695 CornerStone246+17 said: Quote: The 1st year cap hit is usually moderately lower. Daks for instance was 'only' 19M year 1. So DJ and Barkley together for 2023 may only be around a 30M cap hit depending on how the contracts are structured. That is even worse. That means the cap hit is even higher than $40M in future years. In no way would I want to see DJ's cap number ballooning to over $50M.

Cap is projected to continue to balloon year over year with the high level revenues the NFL is making. Teams readily structure contracts accordingly. Some don't want to extremely back-load deals but many teams are quite successful with a moderate back-loading aproach. Also NYG will have 179M available in 2024.

In comment 16016395 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 16016389 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Fair post. I mean, when these same guys get asked about Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc, etc, all the top QBs we don’t get told how respectful they are and how hard they work right off the bat. We get told how freakin awesome they are on the field. And they break down WHY the are so good. Strong arm, mobility within the pocket, off platform throws, laser precision, ability to see the entire field, on and on. It is just assumed that they are hard workers. We don’t need to be told that constantly.

Yes to this and your other post. His running is a great weapon. The Vikings couldn't deal with it. But the Eagles could. When it comes to passing the comments from his coaches indicate he's a perpetual work in progress. They say stuff like, He's doing what he's asked, he's improving. The Jones optimists take this to mean they have asked less of Jones because of his surroundings. Do you buy that? I don't. I understand tweaking schemes, altering routes, but scaling back the whole passing attack? If he was a great passer they would never do that. And he wouldn't let them do that.

In comment 16016655 Spiciest Memelord said:

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got his career killed by Mara placed under the cruel tutelage of the one they call Joe Judge.

I still can’t believe Garrett took the OC job.

In comment 16016395 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

In comment 16016389 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Fair post. I mean, when these same guys get asked about Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc, etc, all the top QBs we don’t get told how respectful they are and how hard they work right off the bat. We get told how freakin awesome they are on the field. And they break down WHY the are so good. Strong arm, mobility within the pocket, off platform throws, laser precision, ability to see the entire field, on and on. It is just assumed that they are hard workers. We don’t need to be told that constantly.

I like Jones but I agree. I'm a big hockey fan and know a guy will be a scrub when they start talking about how hard he works and his character.

In comment 16016729 cosmicj said:

Quote:

In comment 16016655 Spiciest Memelord said: Quote: got his career killed by Mara placed under the cruel tutelage of the one they call Joe Judge. I still can’t believe Garrett took the OC job.

Pretty bizarre at the time and even more so now.

Just do a Twitter search of Dan Duggan commenting on Garrett’s usage of Evan Engram as if he were Jason Witten 2.0. But Duggan also commented several times that Joe Judge was far more of an issue with the offense than fans realized.

An ultra conservative head coach with an unimaginative OC isn’t going to work out well for anyone, including the QB.

In comment 16016692 CT Charlie said:

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Ravi Shanker, eh Sec308?

Mediocrity with a Sitar background music seems to fit.