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Julian Love's Potential Contract

Toth029 : 1/28/2023 10:27 am
Has there been any real word in relation to what Love has been asking for?

While I value what he brings to the table on defense, and I know the coaches love him, I would hesitate to give him top 5 S money.

I was watching Big Blue Banter with Nick Falato and Dan Schneier, and Dan mentioned a $14M number. They agreed that's far too much to pay Love and would rather him test the market.

Spotrac usually undersells some money deals upcoming, and they have him set for a 5-yr, $39M deal, which will come out to roughly $8M per. I do feel he will want more than that, and I don't blame him either. Free agency is a nightmare especially for wide receiver play right now. Too, too much coin is being spent on mediocre players. I'm just kinda curious how Schoen goes into these negotiations and finds a way to bring back Love while also potentially paying Xavier down the road, as well.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/28/2023 10:31 am : link
$14 million a year for Love? I love Love-pun intended-but GTFO with that #.
You cant keep everybody  
blueblood : 1/28/2023 10:34 am : link
What are you paying McKinney next year?? Sadly Love is probably a goner.
there is no chance love gets 14m anually  
Eric on Li : 1/28/2023 10:39 am : link
he may get 14m total guaranteed over 3-4 years. id peg his contract somewhere in the 3x21m ballpark with about that much guaranteed.

here were last year's FA safeties who got multi-year deal. I think love is going to go around the maye/whitehead deals. both had started a lot more games than love before hitting UFA. whitehead was a 16 game starter on tampas SB d.

i hope they bring back love like anyone else but let's be realistic, this is the first year he started more than 6 games. he has 5 career ints. he has nowhere near the resume of a top safety. marcus williams entered UFA last year with 76 starts and 15 ints.

On one hand you want to keep in house talent  
regulator : 1/28/2023 10:41 am : link
we have embarrassingly low numbers of recent draftees that go on to second contracts. But the corollary to that notion is you can’t overpay for those players, either.

We saw Love’s limitations this year. In a primary role he’s not a difference-maker, and in some cases (like our last look at him) he was unfortunately a liability. If the going rate is $10m++ AAV, I would let him walk.
The Sportstrac number is probably.....  
MOOPS : 1/28/2023 10:47 am : link
real close to his value. Would love to keep him on the team but he's not elite.
Depends  
Sammo85 : 1/28/2023 10:53 am : link
on how he assesses market and what Giants can afford. I’m not sure he’s anything more than a 5mm-7.5mm AAV trio safety in a defense that leans heavy on nickel packages. While his run support was a nice bonus and I see his value in zone looks, he had some real ugly whiffs this year in coverage too.
Really like the player, but $14mm?!?!?  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/28/2023 11:04 am : link
Also, he had a great year but laid two big fat eggs against the Eagles.

So I wonder if he is a plus player against bad offenses, but sub-average against good offenses.

You don't want to pay a premium for guys that don't show up against the biggest challenges. Hopefully the Eagles games were an aberration.
I think we will find out how much the Giants FO and Coaching Staff  
arniefez : 1/28/2023 11:06 am : link
value off the field culture when it comes to Love's next contract. On the field IMO he's JAG. In my uneducated, on the couch opinion I think Jason Pinnock who is bigger and faster and will probably cost about 10% of Love's next contract will be an on the field upgrade and the Giants have Dane Belton at about the same price as Pinnock too.

If the Giants have a QB/Jones on a second 35M contract, which we all expect, and plan to pay Barkley too another 12M? IMO it makes no sense to pay Love millions of dollars.

They're going to have to pay McKinney big money this year or next. Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence are going to get paid big money this year or next too. The Giants have gapping holes on the DL, at LB and the middle of their OL. They have ZERO impact receivers on the roster. IMO Julian Love is a luxury they can't afford. We will see how Joe Schoen handles all these difficult calls soon enough.
i think a lot of you are misreading spotrac  
Eric on Li : 1/28/2023 11:11 am : link
they have him at about the exact numbers i mentioned above. 7-8m AAV and the comparable contracts they selected were 3 years 7.4m (1 of them was whitehead last year which was the same contract i mentioned).

If he gets $14m  
UConn4523 : 1/28/2023 11:12 am : link
It won’t be from us
Honest question  
Matt123 : 1/28/2023 11:13 am : link
Why was he so bad against the Eagles?

RE: If he gets $14m  
Eric on Li : 1/28/2023 11:13 am : link
In comment 16016665 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
It won’t be from us


the 14m # is not even in the right galaxy. i dont even think rosenhaus would be able to make an argument for that with a straight face.
Don't be surprised if they let Julian Love walk  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/28/2023 11:37 am : link
As mentioned above, McKinney will be due for an extension soon, and Joe Schoen always brings up positional value and how it relates to cap percentages. You'd think McKinney will get 13-15m annually, and if Love is looking for around 10m, that's a a lot money invested in the safety position. Plus, the Giants might see Dane Belton as a player who can fill in his role at a cheaper cost.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
I  
AcidTest : 1/28/2023 11:44 am : link
think Love is gone. The Spotrac anticipated contract of $8M is fine, but I think some team short at safety will offer him a lot more. As others have said, McKinney will be due for a contract extension soon, and he will cost a lot more than Love. We also have Pinnock and Belton. Thompson may be the fourth safety next year as well. You can only invest so much of your cap in any given position group.

I think Barkley is also gone for the same reason. Some team is going to offer him a lot more than the Giants.
This talk actually make Barkley's deal cheap  
George from PA : 1/28/2023 11:52 am : link
And Barkley's potential deal is not cheap
$5-$6 million should be his cap  
Rick in Dallas : 1/28/2023 12:01 pm : link
Good player but not elite. I would like to retain him.
Also imv we tend to overrate the talent on the team
McKinney is good but don’t go overboard rating his performance.
RE: Depends  
Payasdaddy : 1/28/2023 12:19 pm : link
In comment 16016648 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
on how he assesses market and what Giants can afford. I’m not sure he’s anything more than a 5mm-7.5mm AAV trio safety in a defense that leans heavy on nickel packages. While his run support was a nice bonus and I see his value in zone looks, he had some real ugly whiffs this year in coverage too.


I can’t overpay for love. I like him but he a solid heady #2 type safety. U may do better off playing belton and drafting a developmental guy in mid rds
Strictly because we have other needs I rather fill in FA ( solid ILB or rotational Dlineman,IOL etc)
3 yr $27M  
Joe Beckwith : 1/28/2023 12:21 pm : link
$19M guaranteed.
$8/9/10M max.
But Drew R is his agent.
3 yr $27M  
Joe Beckwith : 1/28/2023 12:21 pm : link
$19M guaranteed.
$8/9/10M max.
But Drew R is his agent.
RE: $5-$6 million should be his cap  
UConn4523 : 1/28/2023 12:43 pm : link
In comment 16016682 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Good player but not elite. I would like to retain him.
Also imv we tend to overrate the talent on the team
McKinney is good but don’t go overboard rating his performance.


His cap? That’s ridiculous.
RE: $5-$6 million should be his cap  
ThomasG : 1/28/2023 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16016682 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Good player but not elite. I would like to retain him.
Also imv we tend to overrate the talent on the team
McKinney is good but don’t go overboard rating his performance.



This feels about right for Love from an AAV perspective. Maybe even go $7M on high range.
Anything over 6Meg  
Sec 103 : 1/28/2023 1:51 pm : link
is an overpay
RE: RE: Depends  
eric2425ny : 1/28/2023 1:53 pm : link
In comment 16016686 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
In comment 16016648 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


on how he assesses market and what Giants can afford. I’m not sure he’s anything more than a 5mm-7.5mm AAV trio safety in a defense that leans heavy on nickel packages. While his run support was a nice bonus and I see his value in zone looks, he had some real ugly whiffs this year in coverage too.



I can’t overpay for love. I like him but he a solid heady #2 type safety. U may do better off playing belton and drafting a developmental guy in mid rds
Strictly because we have other needs I rather fill in FA ( solid ILB or rotational Dlineman,IOL etc)


Agreed, it really comes down to a positional value situation. Is Love as critical to the defense as using that money to find a legit ILB? Or to use towards a receiver or corner?
I seem to like Love a lot more than you guys  
cosmicj : 1/28/2023 1:57 pm : link
He is constantly making plays, often covering up mistakes by teammates and is certainly among the top 10 players on the roster.

Letting him go would a huge mistake, esp given that his numbers won’t be a monster.
He's basically Logan Ryan....  
Ryan : 1/28/2023 2:05 pm : link
....who we payed 3/$31M ($20M gtd) in n'20 (and had almost $7M in dead money from this year).

So assuming that regime probably overpaid enough to offset inflation I'd say he'll probably get 3/$30M somewhere that can deploy him similarly. Given he played the last playoff game like a guy that was protecting himself for FA I'd say it will be from someone else.
The cap is going up  
UConn4523 : 1/28/2023 2:10 pm : link
and even more next year. Good to great young players at non premium positions arent signing for $5m per year.
RE: RE: $5-$6 million should be his cap  
Payasdaddy : 1/28/2023 2:34 pm : link
In comment 16016716 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16016682 Rick in Dallas said:


Quote:


Good player but not elite. I would like to retain him.
Also imv we tend to overrate the talent on the team
McKinney is good but don’t go overboard rating his performance.




This feels about right for Love from an AAV perspective. Maybe even go $7M on high range.


x is real solid but he isn’t Ed reed. He makes a difference in back 7 but we aren’t talking dominance
Good to great?  
chick310 : 1/28/2023 2:34 pm : link
I thought this thread was about Julian Love
RE: Good to great?  
UConn4523 : 1/28/2023 2:38 pm : link
In comment 16016744 chick310 said:
Quote:
I thought this thread was about Julian Love


Great input
Logan Ryan is an excellent comparison.  
mittenedman : 1/28/2023 2:41 pm : link
I like the idea of re-signing homegrown talent - even at a slight overpay. You should put a premium on leadership, guys entering their prime, system guys, handling NY. Manage the cap, keep your good players. This guy's a team leader who can play all the special teams too.

However - I was disappointed in his lack of playmaking ability. He dropped at least 6 tipped ball INTs this year. One of them would've won WAS1, the other probably would've won Vikings1. To his credit, he helped ice the BAL game with an INT.

You want to get paid at the top of your position, make impact plays. The extremely negative view is he's a small, slow SS with no ball skills, carrying low positional value.
RE: RE: Good to great?  
chick310 : 1/28/2023 3:12 pm : link
In comment 16016746 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16016744 chick310 said:


Quote:


I thought this thread was about Julian Love



Great input


Somewhere between Good to Great input
I’ve heard some Giants reporters who argue that  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/28/2023 3:25 pm : link
J. Love is the most important resigning priority for the Giants ahead of Jones and Barkley
Love is a good player but not a difference maker  
kelly : 1/28/2023 3:36 pm : link
Can't spend crazy money on him. Put the money to d line and linebacker
I like Love  
OBJ_AllDay : 1/28/2023 3:47 pm : link
But I wouldn’t give him 10 a year. He’s a replaceable piece.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/28/2023 3:51 pm : link
I wonder what the market is for Love.
RE: 3 yr $27M  
Ira : 1/28/2023 3:51 pm : link
In comment 16016689 Joe Beckwith said:
Quote:
$19M guaranteed.
$8/9/10M max.
But Drew R is his agent.


This sounds like a reasonable deal.
Love was horrific against the Eagles.  
Jacobs #27 : 1/28/2023 4:41 pm : link
Twice he made very obvious "business decisions" where he made virtually no attempt to make a tackle, once on a big 3rd down play. I have no idea why he was like that but if shows up that small in the biggest game of the year it's a huge warning sign to me. That's not how captains should play in a big game.
Here's Sy's game review of Love vs. the Eagles  
Jacobs #27 : 1/28/2023 4:43 pm : link
Quote:
-I’ve noted and praised Julian Love all season for how versatile and impactful he has been for this defense. To keep this real, however, I have to say he had the most disappointing performance of the night. Coming into the game, he had 6 missed tackles all year (one of the best rates in the league, all positions). In this game alone, Love missed 5 tackles and allowed the biggest play of the day on the game’s opening drive. Compared to what he offered all season, Love let this defense down in a big way.


Sy also is pointing out how well Love played during the year  
cosmicj : 1/28/2023 4:54 pm : link
6 missed tackles all through the regular season? Very few, and that’s an important skill for a safety. Safeties missing tackles means big gains and TDs.

Posters on this thread are criminally underrating Love.
RE: Love was horrific against the Eagles.  
UConn4523 : 1/28/2023 4:59 pm : link
In comment 16016803 Jacobs #27 said:
Quote:
Twice he made very obvious "business decisions" where he made virtually no attempt to make a tackle, once on a big 3rd down play. I have no idea why he was like that but if shows up that small in the biggest game of the year it's a huge warning sign to me. That's not how captains should play in a big game.


Then we should let the entire team go if this is your criteria. Have you ever seen a really good player have a terrible game before?
I’ve been thinking about Love’s  
illmatic : 1/28/2023 5:43 pm : link
potential contract the most out of our free agents. He’s just an odd case. He would be nice to keep because he’s a captain, still young, great locker room guy and doesn’t miss many tackles. He’s solid. He’s pretty versatile. On the other hand, he just seems completely average whenever you watch him play. He’s not a playmaker. He doesn’t come off as a difference maker during games. Will that change in the future? Who knows. It feels like they can pretty easily slide someone else into his spot if he wants too much money without a huge drop off. The incoming player might not have the locker room presence and may miss a few more tackles but they’ll likely be more of a playmaker. I wouldn’t want to see them paying him more than around 8 million per year. I think he’ll want more and can probably get it.
RE: Here's Sy's game review of Love vs. the Eagles  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/28/2023 5:57 pm : link
In comment 16016804 Jacobs #27 said:
Quote:


Quote:


-I’ve noted and praised Julian Love all season for how versatile and impactful he has been for this defense. To keep this real, however, I have to say he had the most disappointing performance of the night. Coming into the game, he had 6 missed tackles all year (one of the best rates in the league, all positions). In this game alone, Love missed 5 tackles and allowed the biggest play of the day on the game’s opening drive. Compared to what he offered all season, Love let this defense down in a big way.




Love also completely misplayed that long 4th and 7 TD to Smith in the first Eagles game. Terrible play by him, really set the tone for the whole game.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1602012320141832192
14 big ones over what 3 years?  
Giant John : 1/28/2023 7:55 pm : link
He’s a decent to good player and a little on the slow side. 14mm per year is stupid money.
RE: Honest question  
BMac : 1/28/2023 8:05 pm : link
In comment 16016667 Matt123 said:
Quote:
Why was he so bad against the Eagles?


That's a dishonest question. The honest question is why were ALL the Giants bad against the Eagles.
RE: Sy also is pointing out how well Love played during the year  
BMac : 1/28/2023 8:10 pm : link
In comment 16016806 cosmicj said:
Quote:
6 missed tackles all through the regular season? Very few, and that’s an important skill for a safety. Safeties missing tackles means big gains and TDs.

Posters on this thread are criminally underrating Love.


Well, yeah, but let's not forget how much more posters here know about all this than the coaches and front office!
Doubtful he gets that kind of money anywhere  
Rudy5757 : 1/28/2023 8:24 pm : link
I like Love a lot and would like to have him back. There isn’t as much cap space around the league that people think. It’s going to be a good offseason for the Giants to get some bargain deals imo.
Nobody thinks Love is a top  
Breeze_94 : 1/29/2023 10:20 am : link
10 safety. He’s not getting 14mil.

At best I’d I give him as much as Reid got last year. But preferably
somewhere in the Mathieu/Maye neighborhood.
RE: I’ve been thinking about Love’s  
Breeze_94 : 1/29/2023 10:27 am : link
In comment 16016830 illmatic said:
Quote:
potential contract the most out of our free agents. He’s just an odd case. He would be nice to keep because he’s a captain, still young, great locker room guy and doesn’t miss many tackles. He’s solid. He’s pretty versatile. On the other hand, he just seems completely average whenever you watch him play. He’s not a playmaker. He doesn’t come off as a difference maker during games. Will that change in the future? Who knows. It feels like they can pretty easily slide someone else into his spot if he wants too much money without a huge drop off. The incoming player might not have the locker room presence and may miss a few more tackles but they’ll likely be more of a playmaker. I wouldn’t want to see them paying him more than around 8 million per year. I think he’ll want more and can probably get it.


I think he’s a solid starter, who was above average all year except the 2 games against Philly.

The intangibles + the fact that he has gotten better every year (and is only 24) makes me think that the Giants will seriously regret letting him walk.

Belton does seem to have more juice (range, ball skills) but I worry about his tackling and durability. And he has an occasional lapse in coverage.

If it comes down to extending McKinney or Love, I’m taking X.
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