Trading away high value cost controlled players for vets on or near their second contract is the fastest way to cap problems. We need to build the roster not fall in love with shiny objects.
My concern is that he is seemingly always nicked up. I also think the Bengals will try to keep him. Mixon is not getting any younger and Chase is the only other playmaker they have. Need to have weapons for Burrow.
but, don't really want to give up a #1 pick to acquire him. Maybe if we could get him in a trade for lower picks or a player trade and picks I would feel better about it.
Is the way to go if you don't want to deal with the unknown risk of a WR translating to the pros and the learning curve that oftne comes with learning the position at the pro level.
He may not be the only one that comes available but he's young and a very good one.
Is the way to go if you don't want to deal with the unknown risk of a WR translating to the pros and the learning curve that oftne comes with learning the position at the pro level.
He may not be the only one that comes available but he's young and a very good one.
Indeed. People seem to be fine with perpetuating the uncertainty at this very important position and they seem addicted to the built in excuse that Jones allegedly has no one to throw to. Can we solve this fucking problem, please? It worked out fine for Jalen Hurts, why can't it work with our guy?
But Schoen didn't make it sound like it was something to be seriously considered. He got asked about necessity of getting a #1 WR in the building, and his (completely valid) response was to point out that lots of teams with legit #1 WRs are sitting at home - that having that guy doesn't guarantee you anything.
It might simply be his view that the team has more pressing priorities (which you can easily argue they do).
No I wouldn’t trade for Higgins.
We already have a real comp for him, Hodgins.
Very similar players in size and speed. They were similar coming out of college in all measurables except Higgins was a higher profile player.
We need a true number 1 with speed to challenge the deep parts of the field.
but 1. I don’t think he’s available and 2. I can see him not living up to being the focal point of an offense. He disappears a lot and I have no way to know if it’s just because Chase is the alpha or if he dogs it.
Just that simple. Can’t say Daniel Jones needs weapons and then pass on an opportunity to get one. This is equivalent to Plax for Eli.
The Giants had a lot more in place on offense when Burress signed than they do now. Barber, Ward, Toomer, Hilliard, Shockey, Shiancoe, Pettigout, O'Hara, Snee, Diehl. Not to mention Manning. They also signed McKenzie. They drafted Jacobs, just one pick in a very good draft.
is also not in AJ Browns class frankly. If the Bengals would be willing to take the Toney pick I would consider it but the Bengals wouldn’t as they get a comp 3rd or 4th likely for him next off-season if he leaves in FA.
Fans keep mentioning the “Diggs for Allen” and “Brown for Hurts” models but the scenarios and players and baseline situations on the Giants now are completely different. For one, Jones is going to be expensive quickly now short term next couple years. Second, Giants have nowhere the rest of roster Bills and Eagles had when they made their moves and need all their early picks this draft even if picking later in Rds 1-4 in a real bad way.
Is the way to go if you don't want to deal with the unknown risk of a WR translating to the pros and the learning curve that oftne comes with learning the position at the pro level.
He may not be the only one that comes available but he's young and a very good one.
Indeed. People seem to be fine with perpetuating the uncertainty at this very important position and they seem addicted to the built in excuse that Jones allegedly has no one to throw to. Can we solve this fucking problem, please? It worked out fine for Jalen Hurts, why can't it work with our guy?
Tee Higgins is 24 years old and have all the abilities to be a number one receiver if we want Daniel Jones to be the best he can be we have to get in weapons and giving up the 25th pick for Tee Higgins would be the easiest trade in the history of trade... Eli Manning needed plaxico B. Getting Plaxico Burress elevate Eli Manning to another level Tee Higgins can do the same for Daniel Jones. I would do that trade every day of the week
it ignores everything about the state of the two franchises when a move for a WR was made. Hurts is on a rookie deal, Allen was on a rookie deal before Diggs. Both rosters were in a better spot as well, and to my knowledge they weren’t worrying about shedding years of bad salaries to get back in good standing with the cap.
I am not entirely sure exactly what he meant when he said that. I suspect they have mathematical models to calculate what any player at a specific position is worth. They do not wish to go over the cap. The complexities of designing contracts to stay competitive dictate how much, how long, and how much is guaranteed including how much draft capital is spent acquiring talent. We all would love to have a top-notch WR talent like Higgins. It will be up to Schoen to determine if that would be a sensible or necessary expenditure. Maybe it is or maybe it isn't. Right now, until they work out the details of Jones, Barkley, and others, I don't even think Schoen can answer that question.
There doesn’t seem to be any downside for Tee. He would be a better WR than anything we could get at pick 25. We are in good Cap shape next yr. I would love to give Cincy a second and a third…..but I don’t think that would be enough
Yes, only if, after pick 24, we don't see anyone on the board better or equivalent or if our strongly targeted player is gone by that point and the alternatives don't line up.
need to build the team out - draft a #1/2 WR, build the defense, clean up the OLine, etc. The team has to be close being complete, and then you go for that DIVA WR that puts you over the top. Not this early in the build.
Trading away high value cost controlled players for vets on or near their second contract is the fastest way to cap problems. We need to build the roster not fall in love with shiny objects.
afford to pay that kind of money he will command and give up at least #25 for him. Good player, no doubt. But they need to find someone(or two) in the draft.
He will be getting a bog contract after next season and not sure there will be sufficient $$ for all their own re-signs.
Pretty sure that Plax was a free agent, we did not trade for him. Second, getting Plax was one of the final pieces in putting together a championship run. The Giants now are not in that class by any measure.
Are all “win now” moves. I know we made the playoffs this year but if you go through our roster we’re further away from contending than our 2022 results suggest.
As boring as it seems, this offseason is going to be about locking up our own core of young players, adding a few mid tier veterans to patch holes and focusing on having a good draft to keep building the weak parts of the roster.
Before we start coming up with trade possibilities we need to see what happens with our FAs and FA in general. Not sure how you can go out and take on a big salary when you still need to figure out some internal issues such as Jones and Barkley.
+1. The Eagles and Cowboys will be very strong in ‘23 before starting to experience cap problems in ‘24. We will spend ‘23 building up the roster. This trade idea is timed badly. And I’m also not sure if Higgins fits what we need.
Pass.
RE: Even if they wanted to part with a high draft pick...
The Giants can't afford him. If Jones is getting his $40M they are going to have to draft receivers.
Even if Jones is getting his 40 million a year and they tag Saquon they could still afford him. If they resign Jones he's not going to have a 40 million dollar cap hit in Year 1.
My concern is that he is seemingly always nicked up. I also think the Bengals will try to keep him. Mixon is not getting any younger and Chase is the only other playmaker they have. Need to have weapons for Burrow.
The argument is that the Bengals will be heavily invested in Burrow and Chase and that it is not feasible to give out a big contract to a second wide-receiver.
Higgins is very good. The problem with the logic of the article is that whoever the GM of the Texans was, it was a stupid trade, and I doubt the Bengals have a GM as dumb.
Anyway, Higgins has played well enough to be a first round draft pick. So, do you use a first round pick on an unproved WR or try to trade for a proven one.
I continue to believe that the only way to build the WR corps
Quality free agent Wrs are just too expensive and, with the many unrestricted free agents already on the roster, the Giants should definitely use limited cap resources on building the back end of the roster.
RE: RE: Even if they wanted to part with a high draft pick...
The Giants can't afford him. If Jones is getting his $40M they are going to have to draft receivers.
Even if Jones is getting his 40 million a year and they tag Saquon they could still afford him. If they resign Jones he's not going to have a 40 million dollar cap hit in Year 1.
Ok...so you are planning to backload and give him massive cap hits after the first year. What contract are you preparing to give to Higgins? Have you looked at the WR market lately? Keep in mind this big contract will be in addition to Jones, Lawrence, Thomas, McKinnie.
Are you letting Barkley walk? How about Leo and Adoree? Are you letting them walk after 2023? Are you cutting Leo this offseason?
The Giants need to be really careful here. They exceeded expectations in 2022 but need to continue to build as they are a couple years away.
Very aesthetically pleasing, kind of like a worse AJ Green actually. I could see him be a star somewhere else. But he’s in a pretty fantastic spot right now and there’s no guarantee he can do this as the #1 WR focus for defenses.
Trading away high value cost controlled players for vets on or near their second contract is the fastest way to cap problems. We need to build the roster not fall in love with shiny objects.
He may not be the only one that comes available but he's young and a very good one.
He may not be the only one that comes available but he's young and a very good one.
Indeed. People seem to be fine with perpetuating the uncertainty at this very important position and they seem addicted to the built in excuse that Jones allegedly has no one to throw to. Can we solve this fucking problem, please? It worked out fine for Jalen Hurts, why can't it work with our guy?
It might simply be his view that the team has more pressing priorities (which you can easily argue they do).
We already have a real comp for him, Hodgins.
Very similar players in size and speed. They were similar coming out of college in all measurables except Higgins was a higher profile player.
We need a true number 1 with speed to challenge the deep parts of the field.
The Giants had a lot more in place on offense when Burress signed than they do now. Barber, Ward, Toomer, Hilliard, Shockey, Shiancoe, Pettigout, O'Hara, Snee, Diehl. Not to mention Manning. They also signed McKenzie. They drafted Jacobs, just one pick in a very good draft.
Fans keep mentioning the “Diggs for Allen” and “Brown for Hurts” models but the scenarios and players and baseline situations on the Giants now are completely different. For one, Jones is going to be expensive quickly now short term next couple years. Second, Giants have nowhere the rest of roster Bills and Eagles had when they made their moves and need all their early picks this draft even if picking later in Rds 1-4 in a real bad way.
Quote:
Is the way to go if you don't want to deal with the unknown risk of a WR translating to the pros and the learning curve that oftne comes with learning the position at the pro level.
He may not be the only one that comes available but he's young and a very good one.
Indeed. People seem to be fine with perpetuating the uncertainty at this very important position and they seem addicted to the built in excuse that Jones allegedly has no one to throw to. Can we solve this fucking problem, please? It worked out fine for Jalen Hurts, why can't it work with our guy?
Long term you build your team through the draft. Acquiring players through free agency just wastes draft capital.
+1
The downside is what we have to give up.
Guys, we have too many big holes to fill to spend so many resources on ONE player.
I say keep the 25th pick, scout the players and draft our own number 1 WR.
I say keep the 25th pick, scout the players and draft our own number 1 WR.
How dare you? The only way to fix our team is to draft every need in the first round. It's the only way to improve the team.
He will be getting a bog contract after next season and not sure there will be sufficient $$ for all their own re-signs.
I say keep the 25th pick, scout the players and draft our own number 1 WR.
That approach won't ever work.
Everybody knows you have to draft with some level of desperation based mostly on need, and make sure you try to plug every hole immediately.
As boring as it seems, this offseason is going to be about locking up our own core of young players, adding a few mid tier veterans to patch holes and focusing on having a good draft to keep building the weak parts of the roster.
We’re another year or two away from splash moves.
Pass.
Even if Jones is getting his 40 million a year and they tag Saquon they could still afford him. If they resign Jones he's not going to have a 40 million dollar cap hit in Year 1.
The argument is that the Bengals will be heavily invested in Burrow and Chase and that it is not feasible to give out a big contract to a second wide-receiver.
Higgins is very good. The problem with the logic of the article is that whoever the GM of the Texans was, it was a stupid trade, and I doubt the Bengals have a GM as dumb.
Anyway, Higgins has played well enough to be a first round draft pick. So, do you use a first round pick on an unproved WR or try to trade for a proven one.
Quality free agent Wrs are just too expensive and, with the many unrestricted free agents already on the roster, the Giants should definitely use limited cap resources on building the back end of the roster.
Quote:
The Giants can't afford him. If Jones is getting his $40M they are going to have to draft receivers.
Even if Jones is getting his 40 million a year and they tag Saquon they could still afford him. If they resign Jones he's not going to have a 40 million dollar cap hit in Year 1.
Ok...so you are planning to backload and give him massive cap hits after the first year. What contract are you preparing to give to Higgins? Have you looked at the WR market lately? Keep in mind this big contract will be in addition to Jones, Lawrence, Thomas, McKinnie.
Are you letting Barkley walk? How about Leo and Adoree? Are you letting them walk after 2023? Are you cutting Leo this offseason?
The Giants need to be really careful here. They exceeded expectations in 2022 but need to continue to build as they are a couple years away.
Then the Eagles shouldn't have traded for Brown.
Big Leonard Williams