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Anyone else fine if they let Barkley walk ?

Ned In Atlanta : 1/29/2023 11:53 am
This team has so many holes and some homegrown talent that need to be retained and won’t be cheap (Lawrence, Jones, McKinney, Thomas). Leonard Williams carries a massive cap hit and the team has needs at WR, TE, IOL, DL depth, LB and CB. Barkley reportedly turned down $12 million AAV (apologize if that rumor was debunked). Barkley was the heart and soul of the offense last year but given his injury history and the track record of finding productive, cheap labor later in the draft (Pierce in Houston, Allegier in Atlanta, etc) I think dedicating a large portion of the cap to a RB is not sound team building in a salary cap league
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SF's inside LBs are so good  
PatersonPlank : 1/29/2023 3:43 pm : link
Night and day difference them vs our 2 guys
Define what you mean  
Mike in Boston : 1/29/2023 3:47 pm : link
If you mean, not try to sign him at all, or at least not a serious effort? No. You don't get better by replacing your biggest weapon with a late round pick or a vet minimum guy.

If you mean, is there some limit to what you will pay? Of course. You can't manage a team in the cap era if you are always unwilling to let players you like go at any price.

What is the number? Of course, depends how the deal is structured, whether they have the tag available (Jones negotiations) and whether they think they can use it without messing up the culture. As both teams and players have learned, the structure of a deal matters at least as much as the announced AAV, so I wouldn't put a number out. But the McCaffrey deal, three years later, that is, with the cap having gone up, doesn't seem a crazy starting point. That was $64M over 4 years, $30M guaranteed at signing. Of course, the Giants will have to manage their dealing around the Golladay dead money and the need to sign other young stars, so timing of the cap hit will be an issue for both Barkley and Jones.
Not only fine  
ElitoCanton : 1/29/2023 4:24 pm : link
but I think it would be the smart thing to do. Keeping Barkley is short term thinking that will bite us in the ass later.
Can’t we tag him with a price?  
bradshaw44 : 1/29/2023 4:24 pm : link
Put a first round pick on him and let someone out bid us. Is that an option?
Yes  
jeff57 : 1/29/2023 4:26 pm : link
I certainly wouldn’t give him a multi year deal.
Barkley  
PaulN : 1/29/2023 5:17 pm : link
Is going nowhere. I am surprised any Giant fan can't see this. It's the same crew that wants Jones for 3 years and 50 milliin. Just clueless. He is a weapon. Kookvat the total yards, compare him to all players, recievers and backs, where does he fit in? How do the Giants replace that when they are looking to addvmire weapons. Uf you lack into the position, you are missing the entire boat. Ge is a weapon. Going noplace. Get on board.
The fucking Eagles  
Mayo2JZ : 1/29/2023 5:47 pm : link
Have FOUR running backs. Let that sink in
Agree with those that are saying  
JFIB : 1/29/2023 5:56 pm : link
We can’t count on him to remain healthy and productive through a long term, expensive contract. He’s only had two good seasons out of five and it’s just not worth it. If we spend that money to improve the interior of the OL then we can likely replicate that production by committee.
Just tag him  
uconngiant : 1/29/2023 6:04 pm : link
Then





























































































































Stop over thinking








Yep  
santacruzom : 1/29/2023 6:18 pm : link
I feel like they money spent on Barkley could secure either: a premium player at anotheir posi
RE: Yep  
santacruzom : 1/29/2023 6:20 pm : link
In comment 16018431 santacruzom said:
Quote:
I feel like they money spent on Barkley could secure either: a premium player at anotheir posi


Jesus Christ phone.

Anyway: either a premium player at another position AND a decent replacement running back; or a nice contract extension for one of our other more valuable players AND a decent replacement running back.

I just don't think we're at a point roster-wise to spend a lot of money on Barkley at the potential expense of stocking up in multiple other spots.
RE: Would like Barkley to stay since he is good.  
santacruzom : 1/29/2023 6:23 pm : link
In comment 16017347 chick310 said:
Quote:
But paying him more doesn't upgrade the team and the RB supply chain is long and plentiful.



Exactly... Paying him more does not upgrade the team.
RE: RE: Sign Jones  
eric2425ny : 1/29/2023 6:32 pm : link
In comment 16017687 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
In comment 16017321 Chip said:


Quote:


tag Barkley. It's not that complicated. Then negotiate a long term contract with Barkley.

this


Or just tag Barkley two years in a row. Cheaper than a long term deal and that takes you through his seventh season. He would probably hold out in 2024 though on that second tag, but it’s like the Bell situation years ago with Pittsburgh. Not much leverage on his side. He should take the Chubb deal, 3 years, about $12M per.
RE: RE: Economically it’s smart  
NYG07 : 1/29/2023 6:33 pm : link
In comment 16017391 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 16017334 Sean said:


Quote:


But, expect a drop in play from Jones if you do.



I don't think so Sean.

I did a break down of when the Giants had Jones and No Barkley and Barkley with No Jones a little while back.

It was something like this:

With Jones and no Barkley, The Giants were around 8 wins and 19 losses..

With Barkley and no Jones the Giants didn't win a game.

I sometimes think we underestimate Jones and over estimate Barkley.

Whatever the Giants brass thinks is best I am good with.


Lol really? Does anything from 2021 count in your equation? Mike Glennon and Jake Fromm. We would have been better off starting Barkley at QB.

When Barkley was banged up/ineffective this year mid season, the offense stalled big time and we weren't winning games. Nothing Sean said is off the mark. He is right. Taking away Jones' best weapon would have a negative impact on him and the whole offense.
Yes  
Dave in PA : 1/29/2023 6:36 pm : link
Barkley would be a nice player to have, not critical. If this offense can’t function without SB, then we are nowhere near being able to compete for the NFC anyway
tag him  
fkap : 1/29/2023 6:37 pm : link
Paying 12-16 mil is not good value.

IF your RB is your main/only weapon, you're not anywhere near ready to compete with the big dogs.

The team might be better served tagging him, and praying some foolish team signs him and gives up a couple of # 1's, or trades at least one.
They might take a step backwards next year.  
St. Jimmy : 1/29/2023 7:10 pm : link
But could be better two years from now. The team has been too reliant on him. You don't win with a runningback anymore.
RE: No. Keep good players.  
islander1 : 1/29/2023 7:29 pm : link
In comment 16017322 HopePhil and Optimistic said:
Quote:
An expensive RB is better value than the same money for an average WR.

Don't overthink it.


100% agree.

For ne, it depends more on the term than the money.
If it's true their best offer over the break was $12M...  
Milton : 1/29/2023 7:32 pm : link
...that tells me they are not serious about keeping him. They basically made him an offer they knew he would not accept.
RE: I’m fine with it  
.McL. : 1/29/2023 8:09 pm : link
In comment 16017332 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but it’ll also depend on how they handle the void. I trust these guys know what they are doing.

Serious question for you.
You and I debated even drafting Barkley in 2018, and we were on very different sides then.
It appears to me that you have changed your mind.
Is that correct?
If so, what led you to a different conclusion?
RE: Can you get them late?  
.McL. : 1/29/2023 8:14 pm : link
In comment 16017359 HardTruth said:
Quote:
Saquon Barkley- #2
Christian McCaffrey #8
Derrick Henry- 45
Josh Jacobs- 45
Dalvin Cook- 41
Jonathan Taylor- 41
Miles Sanders - 53
Nick Chubb- 35
Kenneth Walker - 41
Joe Mixon- 48

Next up and comers
Travis Etienne- 25
Breece Hall- 36
Najee Harris - 24


The guys you listed that were taken late got some yards for 2 very bad teams for 1 season, we have no real idea how they will respond in difficult situations for playoff teams

How many times are you going to post this?
And how many times do people have to repost the counter examples that you conveniently exclude?

Besides even in your list, there are only 2 in the top 20.

The majority in your list are in the 40s. That is a far cry from #2! In terms of Draft value that is 2600 vs between 450 and 500... Is Barkley worth 5 or 6 high second round choices?
I'm fine with it  
gridirony : 1/29/2023 8:59 pm : link
The Giants/Eagles playoff game showed me everything I need to see. The Eagles "no-name" runners ran for 207 more yards than Barkley.
I keep asking this  
djm : 1/29/2023 9:14 pm : link
Who are we paying from the Barkley savings? Where is this guy? Some of you want to spend that money on another free agent running back, a vet FA running back, no less. So you want to downgrade at running back and spend probably $10 million on that FA downgrade and then do what, exactly? Where is the rest of that money going to that four or five extra million? No? I’m wrong? OK fine do you want to draft a running back and spend that 15 or so million where? Who is getting that money? What free agent wide receiver are we paying that money to?

I’m still wrong? Ok then. Why can’t we have two nice things on offense? Apparently teams don’t pay the running back in the quarterback? Yeah that’s bullshit. So we’re gonna save some money and let Barkley go and who the fuck are we paying that money to? where is this guy? And is he worth it? The FA wide receivers suck.

Don’t tell me you want to save money and let Barkley go just because of stupid made up nonsense about RBs not worth the money. Please offer me something better than that. Please explain to me why we’re gonna let a known commodity just leave “because running backs aren’t worth i it.” Please give me more than that.
We’re talking 3 or so years here people  
djm : 1/29/2023 9:15 pm : link
Not 20 years.

You guys treat these contracts like the fucking plague. 3 years. Not 10.
RE: I keep asking this  
.McL. : 1/29/2023 9:22 pm : link
In comment 16018931 djm said:
Quote:
Who are we paying from the Barkley savings? Where is this guy? Some of you want to spend that money on another free agent running back, a vet FA running back, no less. So you want to downgrade at running back and spend probably $10 million on that FA downgrade and then do what, exactly? Where is the rest of that money going to that four or five extra million? No? I’m wrong? OK fine do you want to draft a running back and spend that 15 or so million where? Who is getting that money? What free agent wide receiver are we paying that money to?

I’m still wrong? Ok then. Why can’t we have two nice things on offense? Apparently teams don’t pay the running back in the quarterback? Yeah that’s bullshit. So we’re gonna save some money and let Barkley go and who the fuck are we paying that money to? where is this guy? And is he worth it? The FA wide receivers suck.

Don’t tell me you want to save money and let Barkley go just because of stupid made up nonsense about RBs not worth the money. Please offer me something better than that. Please explain to me why we’re gonna let a known commodity just leave “because running backs aren’t worth i it.” Please give me more than that.

djm, this is a dumb question.
It isn't any one specific player. It is a matter of roster construction and where you choose to spend resources.
Maybe it is a OL, maybe a CB, a LB, some better DL rotation guys, more available money for a WR, or your favorite QB. If not this year, than next.
Look at all the FA the Giants need to sign
QB, at least 2 WR, probably 2 IOL, 2 ILB, 2 rotational DL, a CB. And that is for starter/players with significant snaps. The can save 6M releasing KG. That leave 60M, about 48M after the rookie pool.

Just how far is that 48M going to stretch? Can we sign all those players to the contracts they want? I know you don't want to believe it, but the cap actually matters.
RE: Can you get them late?  
FStubbs : 1/29/2023 9:31 pm : link
In comment 16017359 HardTruth said:
Quote:
Saquon Barkley- #2
Christian McCaffrey #8
Derrick Henry- 45
Josh Jacobs- 45
Dalvin Cook- 41
Jonathan Taylor- 41
Miles Sanders - 53
Nick Chubb- 35
Kenneth Walker - 41
Joe Mixon- 48

Next up and comers
Travis Etienne- 25
Breece Hall- 36
Najee Harris - 24


The guys you listed that were taken late got some yards for 2 very bad teams for 1 season, we have no real idea how they will respond in difficult situations for playoff teams


That list says to me you find your RB in the 2nd round.
Walk? Absolutely not.  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/29/2023 10:20 pm : link
Trade? Absolutely.

Acquire as much draft capital as possible.
After watching neither team  
section125 : 1/29/2023 10:40 pm : link
be able to run the ball in the KC v Cincy game, I bet both would have liked to have Saquon tonight. Even Mixon, who is a decent back, had a crappy game. Pacheco is too small to be effective on 3rd and short. KC worst team in NFL on 3rd an 1 converting.
I'm fine with whatever they do  
Bill in UT : 1/29/2023 10:44 pm : link
if they think it will lead to a SB. At least until they show they don't know what they're doing.
Barkley is a Top 10 Impact Position Player  
Rafflee : 1/29/2023 11:48 pm : link
They have a way to function and center their offense with Barkley...at 12-16 million, he cannot be easily replaced for touches and impact. You may not choose to build around the RB Position, Philosophically, but you have a field tilting player on a Talent Needy Offense with a very strongly established production. He's a star and an anchor.
RE: I keep asking this  
Rafflee : 1/29/2023 11:53 pm : link
In comment 16018931 djm said:
Quote:
Who are we paying from the Barkley savings? Where is this guy? Some of you want to spend that money on another free agent running back, a vet FA running back, no less. So you want to downgrade at running back and spend probably $10 million on that FA downgrade and then do what, exactly? Where is the rest of that money going to that four or five extra million? No? I’m wrong? OK fine do you want to draft a running back and spend that 15 or so million where? Who is getting that money? What free agent wide receiver are we paying that money to?

I’m still wrong? Ok then. Why can’t we have two nice things on offense? Apparently teams don’t pay the running back in the quarterback? Yeah that’s bullshit. So we’re gonna save some money and let Barkley go and who the fuck are we paying that money to? where is this guy? And is he worth it? The FA wide receivers suck.

Don’t tell me you want to save money and let Barkley go just because of stupid made up nonsense about RBs not worth the money. Please offer me something better than that. Please explain to me why we’re gonna let a known commodity just leave “because running backs aren’t worth i it.” Please give me more than that.

A+ work
RE: RE: I keep asking this  
chick310 : 1/30/2023 10:30 am : link
In comment 16019409 Rafflee said:
Quote:
In comment 16018931 djm said:


Quote:


Who are we paying from the Barkley savings? Where is this guy? Some of you want to spend that money on another free agent running back, a vet FA running back, no less. So you want to downgrade at running back and spend probably $10 million on that FA downgrade and then do what, exactly? Where is the rest of that money going to that four or five extra million? No? I’m wrong? OK fine do you want to draft a running back and spend that 15 or so million where? Who is getting that money? What free agent wide receiver are we paying that money to?

I’m still wrong? Ok then. Why can’t we have two nice things on offense? Apparently teams don’t pay the running back in the quarterback? Yeah that’s bullshit. So we’re gonna save some money and let Barkley go and who the fuck are we paying that money to? where is this guy? And is he worth it? The FA wide receivers suck.

Don’t tell me you want to save money and let Barkley go just because of stupid made up nonsense about RBs not worth the money. Please offer me something better than that. Please explain to me why we’re gonna let a known commodity just leave “because running backs aren’t worth i it.” Please give me more than that.


A+ work


Quite the grading system you put in place here.
100% ok with letting Barkley walk.  
Kmed6000 : 1/30/2023 10:33 am : link
He's a special talent. He's injury prone and the Giants aren't in a position to make a luxury signing like that. Running games in the NFL are based on the OL and scheme more than anything. The Giants have a ton of premium picks and should be able to get a RB in rd 2 or 3 that is a blue chip talent. That player will cost pennies against the cap. They can also sign specialists to fill rolls(pass catcher, bruiser) depending on who they draft.

I think the Giants have to let Barkley walk to be honest.
Barkley does more for us than just play like a normal RB  
PatersonPlank : 1/30/2023 10:48 am : link
Where else are you going to find a guy who was responsible for 1,650 yds and 10 TDs for only $12-$14M? A WR would get 20+M for this output. Plus just about every play we do is some derivative of "faking" to Barkley, since the D just keys on the guy, his value is even larger than the stats above. Do you think Jones runs would be open like they are without the fakes to Barkley first, or do you think those RPO slants Jones loves (where the WR's actually are open) would happen without first putting the ball in Barkleys stomach?

The guy is the key to our current offense. His value to us is more than a RB, and would be very hard to replace (and certainly not for $12-$14M).
Um the draft  
Kmed6000 : 1/30/2023 10:55 am : link
where every other team finds these players.
Regarding replacing Barkley  
.McL. : 1/30/2023 2:31 pm : link
Look at the Eagles...

For those of you who love Barkley, do you think he is better than Sanders?

But Sanders put up nearly identical numbers as Barkley.

They did it because they have a better OL. Having a better OL has also had a positive impact on the passing game, their back RB numbers, and Hurt's numbers running.

The way to replace the production is to improve the OL.

Improving the WR won't hurt either.

The point is, the money is more effective when used to bolster other parts of the team.
RE: Regarding replacing Barkley  
chick310 : 1/30/2023 2:37 pm : link
In comment 16020023 .McL. said:
Quote:
Look at the Eagles...

For those of you who love Barkley, do you think he is better than Sanders?

But Sanders put up nearly identical numbers as Barkley.

They did it because they have a better OL. Having a better OL has also had a positive impact on the passing game, their back RB numbers, and Hurt's numbers running.

The way to replace the production is to improve the OL.

Improving the WR won't hurt either.

The point is, the money is more effective when used to bolster other parts of the team.


There was a thread going on last week with GBN guys posting adamantly that the Eagles did not have a dominant line at all, and their prodcutivity was comparable to that of the NYG's OL.
franchise tag  
bigbluehoya : 1/30/2023 2:40 pm : link
feels like the game theory optimal move with Barkley, viewing it in isolation.

The externality is that they need that tag in their pocket until they work things out with DJ.

It would be great if they can work things out with DJ in advance of the tag deadline, but that will require either some come-to-jesus on Jones' part or the organization substantially giving in to what he's asking for (which I suspect many of us would consider an overpay).

My baseline expectation is that the tag will need to be used on Jones and that Barkley will be allowed to walk.
The GBN guys must be watching Eagles film  
UConn4523 : 1/30/2023 2:46 pm : link
from a different year. When you watch the Eagles do you confuse them with the Giants OL?
I do think that the 13-16 AAV  
The Dude : 1/30/2023 2:51 pm : link
Is better spent at a young and ascending IOL….
When I watch the Eagle OL I see a unit that wins most matchups  
chick310 : 1/30/2023 2:56 pm : link
week to week, in sometimes dominant fashion.

When I see Jason Kelce, it's what I wish we had anchoring our line no matter who is behind center at QB or split out wide at WR.
Then GBN should never be taken seriously.  
Kmed6000 : 1/30/2023 2:57 pm : link
The Eagles line is excellent.
RE: When I watch the Eagle OL I see a unit that wins most matchups  
UConn4523 : 1/30/2023 2:59 pm : link
In comment 16020059 chick310 said:
Quote:
week to week, in sometimes dominant fashion.

When I see Jason Kelce, it's what I wish we had anchoring our line no matter who is behind center at QB or split out wide at WR.


So why do you keep posting about GBN and their line being comparable to ours? I truly don’t understand it.
Because I found it interesting to how some frame the debate  
chick310 : 1/30/2023 3:10 pm : link
as to where NY Giant investment is best served to flow.

Much like this thread about whether the team should let Barkley walk.
RE: RE: Regarding replacing Barkley  
.McL. : 1/30/2023 3:31 pm : link
In comment 16020031 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 16020023 .McL. said:


Quote:


Look at the Eagles...

For those of you who love Barkley, do you think he is better than Sanders?

But Sanders put up nearly identical numbers as Barkley.

They did it because they have a better OL. Having a better OL has also had a positive impact on the passing game, their back RB numbers, and Hurt's numbers running.

The way to replace the production is to improve the OL.

Improving the WR won't hurt either.

The point is, the money is more effective when used to bolster other parts of the team.



There was a thread going on last week with GBN guys posting adamantly that the Eagles did not have a dominant line at all, and their prodcutivity was comparable to that of the NYG's OL.

Yes, I saw that.... I rolled my eyes!
I’d be a bit sad. Class guy, the type  
jpkmets : 1/30/2023 7:44 pm : link
of player I enjoy rooting for. If he was my shortstop, I’d be pissed if Cohen let him walk. But in a hard cap sport where RB’s are just pretty fungible and can be made or broken by scheme, I’d totally be fine with it after an initial lang of sadness.
RE: I’d be a bit sad. Class guy, the type  
JoeSchoens11 : 1/30/2023 11:53 pm : link
In comment 16020371 jpkmets said:
Quote:
of player I enjoy rooting for. If he was my shortstop, I’d be pissed if Cohen let him walk. But in a hard cap sport where RB’s are just pretty fungible and can be made or broken by scheme, I’d totally be fine with it after an initial lang of sadness.
Top 5 players at any position are not fungible but they are big hits to the cap. These are the players that teams don’t usually let hit FA - SB coming off an injury and awful cap management put us in this situation.

He was excellent this year, is always fun to watch, he became a solid pass blocker, has great ball security, a great guy to root for and was the driving force for a number of wins that wouldn’t happen with an average rb.

In short, he’s a guy you build with…even though he’s a Jets fan
It would be a mistake to let him walk  
ZoneXDOA : 1/31/2023 4:26 pm : link
A guy that put his body on the line week in and week out, playing through injury and being a leader on this team and a class act on the field, off the field and at the podium… to see the hunger he has and the passion he plays with… to reward this player by letting him walk is a slap n the face and it certainly sends the wrong message to the other players on the team
I don't understand the logic of...  
Giantfan in skinland : 1/31/2023 5:46 pm : link
he's the centerpiece of the offense/can't replace him.

That was true this season. The issue is that betting on a running back to replicate that for even 2-3 more years goes against mountains of prior evidence. The list of RBs who have maintained their level of play into their second contracts is EXTREMELY short. The fact that we ran him so hard this year is EXACTLY THE REASON they shouldn't bank on being able to do it into the future.

You're worried about how do we replace him if we let him walk. The issue is we likely will have to replace him even if we don't.
Let him walk  
chitt17 : 2/2/2023 10:04 am : link
Draft a stud running back in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Use the savings elsewhere.
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