maybe they take this break to go back to playing defense but until they can figure out how to stop other teams from generating so many chances it's hard to see this team going anywhere.
but the conditional pick protects them and horvat raises the ceiling on the team. also hopefully makes the roster more attractive in the offseason if they are looking for a proven coach. Barzal-Horvat-Nelson with Sorokin in goal is quality.
Supposedly they agreed to a long term contract before the trade was made official.
I have mixed feelings on giving up Raty, I had high hopes for him.
Not true. There is no extension and were no talks facilitated beforehand per Renaud Lavoie. Horvats agent intends to test FA and he won’t come cheap. Rumor is Red Wings plan to make a big swing at him and he’s from Ontario area not far from Detroit.
I don’t think Lou gave up much. But it’s a win now move and still leaves them kind of wanting another forward.
But, do NHL Insiders exist? The Islanders break trade news?
they exist and there are few who had horvat being traded soon but lamoriello doesn't leak anything early.
on reddit a sens fan came on the isles sub and announced it 3 hours before the news. he took a lot of shit. He also updated saying the isles have offered 7 years for 8.5 per
this isn't a video game where you just slot your best players wherever and they perform. This team has consistently had an issue of good centers and mediocre wingers. This remains the same.
If it had just been for Raty and Beau, I'd have been OK. I like Raty's development but again, the Islanders and centers.
This doesn't do anything for our hot garbage defensive efforts. Horvat, like Pageau a few years ago, was coming off of a career offensive year that he never replicated.
At least the first is protected, but I'm not a fan of giving it up at all. This team's old.
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
Also one of the oldest teams in the NHL at 29.4 years old.
This reeks of desperation, never mind Horvat's completely unsustainable 21.7% shooting percentage on a career year.
RE: RE: RE: Risky move trading that package for a rental
In a way I can kind of see it - given where they competed so well for 2-3 yr stretch until last season and generally have a fully veteran core (bunch of forwards now still signed for some term over 30 - Palmieri, Cizikas, Nelson, Pageau, Lee).
I can see bringing in Horvat and maybe using Barzal more on wing. We'll see if Lou locks in Horvat. If he does, Isles should still compete next couple seasons.
The floor will collapse probably in a couple years with painful and probably several years (ie, 4-5, not 1-2, worth of rebuild in store, but Lou won't be around to deal with it.
Expect there to be a bit of arms race in East given so many teams close together for the final spots. Pens seem to think they can follow Isles lead and get a last desperate gasp out of their Crosby led core (doubtful) and Caps seem intent on trying.
Fully expect Rangers and Devils to make moves too of some note rather than just depth additions.
RE: RE: Risky move trading that package for a rental
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
I'm not sure the coaching is the issue. Lambert was a huge part of everything that Trotz did. Last year's team played 9-seed level hockey for 82 games. This year's team is playing 9-seed hockey for 50 games. The performance seems similar with different coaches.
The floor will collapse probably in a couple years with painful and probably several years (ie, 4-5, not 1-2, worth of rebuild in store, but Lou won't be around to deal with it.
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
Isles cannot afford it. One they don't have the cap space (Meier is not a rental to boot, he's RFA with a 10m qualifying offer due or extension required). Two they don't have any assets left whatsoever to trade so it's kind of moot.
Meier is likely headed to Canes, Sabres or Devils (rumor is he wants to go to NJ to play with his Swiss pals Hischier and Siegenthaler) but Devils might not want to swing big just yet or commit with Bratt's extension looming.
RE: RE: RE: Risky move trading that package for a rental
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
I'm not sure the coaching is the issue. Lambert was a huge part of everything that Trotz did. Last year's team played 9-seed level hockey for 82 games. This year's team is playing 9-seed hockey for 50 games. The performance seems similar with different coaches.
a huge part of everything trotz did except the whole structure and defense thing they were one of the best at the league at for 3 years running with all the same players (and worse goalies).
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
Isles cannot afford it. One they don't have the cap space (Meier is not a rental to boot, he's RFA with a 10m qualifying offer due or extension required). Two they don't have any assets left whatsoever to trade so it's kind of moot.
Meier is likely headed to Canes, Sabres or Devils (rumor is he wants to go to NJ to play with his Swiss pals Hischier and Siegenthaler) but Devils might not want to swing big just yet or commit with Bratt's extension looming.
they still have $11.31M in projected deadline cap space for any rentals.
RE: RE: RE: Risky move trading that package for a rental
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
Also one of the oldest teams in the NHL at 29.4 years old.
This reeks of desperation, never mind Horvat's completely unsustainable 21.7% shooting percentage on a career year.
the age is distorted by the bottom 6.
sorokin is 27.
pelech/pulock are 28.
barzal is 25.
dobson/romanov are 23.
horvat is 27.
pageau is 30 and nelson is 31. palmieri is 31. lee is 32. those guys are all probably more supporting players than core players going forward but they are producing.
nelson had the exact same shooting% last year and while none of us expected that he'd repeat a 40g year he's still a good player even back at his normal shooting% isn't he? he and horvat not only had the exact same career high shooting%'s but they have the exact same career shooting%'s at 14%. a better 4 years younger version of nelson sounds pretty good even if the 50g pace is an aberration (which i expect it is).
and by the time we replace/overhaul the rest of the roster
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
They absolutely can make this happen. First step is to trade Varly and Mayfield preferably to the same team and get a 1st round pick. Use the assets and flip them with some prospects to get a winger.
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
They absolutely can make this happen. First step is to trade Varly and Mayfield preferably to the same team and get a 1st round pick. Use the assets and flip them with some prospects to get a winger.
they have 11.5m of space for the deadline (projected) so im not sure they need much more room. if they are going for it i dont see them moving mayfield or varly.
my guess is the mostly outcome is getting a tier 2 winger like jvr or nyquist or someone like that who can help the PP. or maybe try to swap bailey and a pick for someone like henrique with a similar contract.
lou is 80. he's all in on this group so if there's a tarasenko (or who knows maybe even kane) rental available i think he'd give up another conditional first round pick or another young guy (dufour, holmstrom, bolduc, etc).
the big question to me is lambert. he's sucked. how much rope is left if he just cant do the job and what's the backup plan?
But with multiple teams in on Meier it's hard to believe the Isles can come up with a package to top the others now that they traded their #1 this year, and tied up next year's because this year's has protection on it. A rental would be more realistic.
But with multiple teams in on Meier it's hard to believe the Isles can come up with a package to top the others now that they traded their #1 this year, and tied up next year's because this year's has protection on it. A rental would be more realistic.
agreed. i doubt they can get meier.
a jvr/nyquist type to help PP seems most likely.
adam henrique for josh bailey and some picks makes sense and Lou loves his old devils but they need a winger more than another center.
kane is an interesting wild card bc he will basically choose his destination and i think once he does so the price will basically be a first round pick. is lou willing to give up whichever of the next 2 firsts vancouver doesn't get to go all in?
they wouldn't have the room to extend kane unless they somehow dumped bailey. tarasenko is similar and he has a partial ntc that i believe the isles aren't on.
...kane is an interesting wild card bc he will basically choose his destination and i think once he does so the price will basically be a first round pick. is lou willing to give up whichever of the next 2 firsts vancouver doesn't get to go all in?
they wouldn't have the room to extend kane unless they somehow dumped bailey. tarasenko is similar and he has a partial ntc that i believe the isles aren't on.
As long as you're throwing Kane's name out there, NYR twittersphere is aghast at the swap being bandied about: Either Lafrenière or Kakko + a first for Kane. That would be a horrid overpay, but I wouldn't put it past Drury, who has been pretty much a piker since Dolan put him in the saddle.
Kane decides where Kane goes. That limits the bidding.
The guy absolutely gushes about playing with Panarin to the point of weirdness. He said the most fun he had playing hockey was with Bread.
but the conditional pick protects them and horvat raises the ceiling on the team. also hopefully makes the roster more attractive in the offseason if they are looking for a proven coach. Barzal-Horvat-Nelson with Sorokin in goal is quality.
I have mixed feelings on giving up Raty, I had high hopes for him.
they exist and there are few who had horvat being traded soon but lamoriello doesn't leak anything early.
I have mixed feelings on giving up Raty, I had high hopes for him.
Not true. There is no extension and were no talks facilitated beforehand per Renaud Lavoie. Horvats agent intends to test FA and he won’t come cheap. Rumor is Red Wings plan to make a big swing at him and he’s from Ontario area not far from Detroit.
I don’t think Lou gave up much. But it’s a win now move and still leaves them kind of wanting another forward.
I have mixed feelings on giving up Raty, I had high hopes for him.
This is not true. There have been no contract talks. Lou better hope there will be and soon.
Quote:
But, do NHL Insiders exist? The Islanders break trade news?
they exist and there are few who had horvat being traded soon but lamoriello doesn't leak anything early.
on reddit a sens fan came on the isles sub and announced it 3 hours before the news. he took a lot of shit. He also updated saying the isles have offered 7 years for 8.5 per
If it had just been for Raty and Beau, I'd have been OK. I like Raty's development but again, the Islanders and centers.
This doesn't do anything for our hot garbage defensive efforts. Horvat, like Pageau a few years ago, was coming off of a career offensive year that he never replicated.
At least the first is protected, but I'm not a fan of giving it up at all. This team's old.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
Quote:
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
... And a gm.
This is Vanek, Smyth vibes. Burning assets and cap space to get a wild card.
The organizational strategy is hope Sorokin goes late 9%s Hasek. This is not a contender.
Quote:
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
Also one of the oldest teams in the NHL at 29.4 years old.
This reeks of desperation, never mind Horvat's completely unsustainable 21.7% shooting percentage on a career year.
Quote:
In comment 16020445 Metnut said:
Quote:
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
... And a gm.
This is Vanek, Smyth vibes. Burning assets and cap space to get a wild card.
The organizational strategy is hope Sorokin goes late 9%s Hasek. This is not a contender.
If we defended worth a shit, we might be able to actually pull that off. but we don't do either.
I can see bringing in Horvat and maybe using Barzal more on wing. We'll see if Lou locks in Horvat. If he does, Isles should still compete next couple seasons.
The floor will collapse probably in a couple years with painful and probably several years (ie, 4-5, not 1-2, worth of rebuild in store, but Lou won't be around to deal with it.
Expect there to be a bit of arms race in East given so many teams close together for the final spots. Pens seem to think they can follow Isles lead and get a last desperate gasp out of their Crosby led core (doubtful) and Caps seem intent on trying.
Fully expect Rangers and Devils to make moves too of some note rather than just depth additions.
Quote:
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
I'm not sure the coaching is the issue. Lambert was a huge part of everything that Trotz did. Last year's team played 9-seed level hockey for 82 games. This year's team is playing 9-seed hockey for 50 games. The performance seems similar with different coaches.
The floor will collapse probably in a couple years with painful and probably several years (ie, 4-5, not 1-2, worth of rebuild in store, but Lou won't be around to deal with it.
This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of.
Isles cannot afford it. One they don't have the cap space (Meier is not a rental to boot, he's RFA with a 10m qualifying offer due or extension required). Two they don't have any assets left whatsoever to trade so it's kind of moot.
Meier is likely headed to Canes, Sabres or Devils (rumor is he wants to go to NJ to play with his Swiss pals Hischier and Siegenthaler) but Devils might not want to swing big just yet or commit with Bratt's extension looming.
Quote:
In comment 16020445 Metnut said:
Quote:
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
I'm not sure the coaching is the issue. Lambert was a huge part of everything that Trotz did. Last year's team played 9-seed level hockey for 82 games. This year's team is playing 9-seed hockey for 50 games. The performance seems similar with different coaches.
a huge part of everything trotz did except the whole structure and defense thing they were one of the best at the league at for 3 years running with all the same players (and worse goalies).
Quote:
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
Isles cannot afford it. One they don't have the cap space (Meier is not a rental to boot, he's RFA with a 10m qualifying offer due or extension required). Two they don't have any assets left whatsoever to trade so it's kind of moot.
Meier is likely headed to Canes, Sabres or Devils (rumor is he wants to go to NJ to play with his Swiss pals Hischier and Siegenthaler) but Devils might not want to swing big just yet or commit with Bratt's extension looming.
they still have $11.31M in projected deadline cap space for any rentals.
Quote:
In comment 16020445 Metnut said:
Quote:
Pick is protected this year but unprotected next year so there’s some risk involved here for sure.
Hope they extend him and go on a run this year and prove me wrong, but I’m not sure this team is one player away.
they aren't a player away, they are a coach away.
Also one of the oldest teams in the NHL at 29.4 years old.
This reeks of desperation, never mind Horvat's completely unsustainable 21.7% shooting percentage on a career year.
the age is distorted by the bottom 6.
sorokin is 27.
pelech/pulock are 28.
barzal is 25.
dobson/romanov are 23.
horvat is 27.
pageau is 30 and nelson is 31. palmieri is 31. lee is 32. those guys are all probably more supporting players than core players going forward but they are producing.
nelson had the exact same shooting% last year and while none of us expected that he'd repeat a 40g year he's still a good player even back at his normal shooting% isn't he? he and horvat not only had the exact same career high shooting%'s but they have the exact same career shooting%'s at 14%. a better 4 years younger version of nelson sounds pretty good even if the 50g pace is an aberration (which i expect it is).
Lou made these mistakes years ago. They are all going to come to roost here in about 2-3 years, I believe, and I'm not happy about it.
Lou made these mistakes years ago. They are all going to come to roost here in about 2-3 years, I believe, and I'm not happy about it.
lee is 32, nelson is 31, palmieri is 31, mayfield/pageau are 30. those guys are mostly producing and none of them are ancient.
the age is on the 4th line and parise (who is 38 and making the minimum but also producing). the bailey contract sucks but lou inherited him.
id imagine the goal is that dufour, holmstrom, wahlstrom phase in to take on more minutes the forwards above when they fall off.
They absolutely can make this happen. First step is to trade Varly and Mayfield preferably to the same team and get a 1st round pick. Use the assets and flip them with some prospects to get a winger.
Quote:
if Lou goes out and gets a winger as well. If I'm him I would give up whatever SJ would want for Timo Meier with the fallback plan of Tarasanko. I've been saying for a few weeks that this team is multiple scorers away from competing. 1 down, 1 to go. You can still trade off some valuable pieces to accumulate assets for a winger. Specifically Varlamov and Mayfield. Meier and Horvat are long term solutions to this teams scoring issues.
They absolutely can make this happen. First step is to trade Varly and Mayfield preferably to the same team and get a 1st round pick. Use the assets and flip them with some prospects to get a winger.
they have 11.5m of space for the deadline (projected) so im not sure they need much more room. if they are going for it i dont see them moving mayfield or varly.
my guess is the mostly outcome is getting a tier 2 winger like jvr or nyquist or someone like that who can help the PP. or maybe try to swap bailey and a pick for someone like henrique with a similar contract.
lou is 80. he's all in on this group so if there's a tarasenko (or who knows maybe even kane) rental available i think he'd give up another conditional first round pick or another young guy (dufour, holmstrom, bolduc, etc).
the big question to me is lambert. he's sucked. how much rope is left if he just cant do the job and what's the backup plan?
agreed. i doubt they can get meier.
a jvr/nyquist type to help PP seems most likely.
adam henrique for josh bailey and some picks makes sense and Lou loves his old devils but they need a winger more than another center.
kane is an interesting wild card bc he will basically choose his destination and i think once he does so the price will basically be a first round pick. is lou willing to give up whichever of the next 2 firsts vancouver doesn't get to go all in?
they wouldn't have the room to extend kane unless they somehow dumped bailey. tarasenko is similar and he has a partial ntc that i believe the isles aren't on.
they wouldn't have the room to extend kane unless they somehow dumped bailey. tarasenko is similar and he has a partial ntc that i believe the isles aren't on.
As long as you're throwing Kane's name out there, NYR twittersphere is aghast at the swap being bandied about: Either Lafrenière or Kakko + a first for Kane. That would be a horrid overpay, but I wouldn't put it past Drury, who has been pretty much a piker since Dolan put him in the saddle.
The guy absolutely gushes about playing with Panarin to the point of weirdness. He said the most fun he had playing hockey was with Bread.