In the spirit of the 2007 trade Eli thread. What QB would you trade DJ for. For the purposes of this analysis, assume DJ is signed for 4/$110MM $75 guaranteed - don't want to argue if that is the right contract, just want to hear thought about who you would take on their current contract if those were DJ's numbers.
Some obvious yeses - Burrows, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert
Some obvious nos - Wilson, Murray, Rodgers, Ryan, Wentz
Feel free to disagree on the obvious.
So who else. Watson, Prescott, definite nos for me. No to Stafford at his cap hit ($150/3) and age. Goff probably not (2/$60). Lawrence a definite yes. Tannehill no based on age and only 1 year on contract. Carr? maybe the toughest call. 3/$120/$40 guaranteed. Better contract than DJ if you want to get out after 1 year. Worse if you are thinking long term hold.
So what do you think. Anyone you drool over that is not mentioned? Anyone of my obviouses that you have different answer? Jump in!
I would say that when you "take away the turnovers," DJ's scoring production is cut almost in half. I think it's misleading to present this past season as the outcome of "what if you took DJ's rookie year but just deleted the turnovers?"
There are obviously other factors, but we have no evidence that DJ would be able to replicate the scoring output of his rookie year while also replicating the turnover suppression of this past year, because it hasn't happened over any length of time.
If Justin Herbert didn’t play a down next year, Jones would need to throw 39 touchdown passes to pass Herbert’s total in three years even with a down year last year. Jones 17 game average is 19, so it’s entirely possibly it would take Jones more than two years to pass him.
Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, LJax, Hurts, Herbert, & Trevor.
RN='right now'. I'm obviously not saying DJ is going down as a better QB than TB12, Rodgers, Russ, etc.
I'd lump DJ in with the Dak's, Kirk's, Kyler's of the NFL. For example, I don't think DJ is as athletically gifted as say Kyler Murray, but I think he's better suited for success with Dabs & seems like a harder worker/more committed to the game than Kyler. I doubt there's a study clause in Jones' next contract.
Megalomaniac is a novel one. For literally writing a mainstream opinion. Do we all know what megalomaniac means? I'd love to know who you voted for Walker -- if you think my behavior here looks like megalomania to you.
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I really enjoy chatting with you. But only on BBI do folks get called names for espousing uncontroversial positions.
By the way, i didn't cherry pick NFL.com ranks, they were literally the first one I looked at. I'm out and about but later on I'll post here another 6. They will be the first 6 I click on, i promise. What will it mean? Simply it will tell us something about the perception of the two players. I think Herbert will be well ahead of Jones on every list. Perception. That's all I'm talking about.
Have a good day section125. I'll post my list later
You are what I said your are. You post crap, when called out on it you either slink away or you deflect to another topic and drop a condescending line to be annoying.
Perception - there you go - a term for opinion based on belief. Deflect and slink away. You are very good at it.
Save your perceptions as if they hold water.
It turns out you are a nasty piece of work who is mean to people you are engaging with. Do you do this irl, or just on the internet where somebody can't retaliate to your face. From your reasoning, to lack of self-control, it is clear you can't hold my jockstrap and you are frankly not worth the time or effort.
How about this. Herbert was in a dysfunctional offense. Herbert was basically the OC. Jones had an offensive guru who had to convert the offense to run-first and scheme around his QBs limitations. If Daboll had Herbert, we wouldn't have a 1975 offense. Daboll got Jones from garbage to passable. That's what we have, a passable QB, and man y of you just don't want to face the reality.
And now you want to overpay him. If Schoen gives Jones $40M/yr, unless there is an out clause in the near term, I'll be close to done with him. You can't give decent players, elite dollars, and hope to compete for championships.
Imagine if Daboll had Herbert. What would the offense look like?
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It appears, that beside his own limitations, Jones was absolutely a victim of poor coaching. Take away the turnovers, and Jones 1st year was very good. What happened between year 1 and year 4?
I would say that when you "take away the turnovers," DJ's scoring production is cut almost in half. I think it's misleading to present this past season as the outcome of "what if you took DJ's rookie year but just deleted the turnovers?"
There are obviously other factors, but we have no evidence that DJ would be able to replicate the scoring output of his rookie year while also replicating the turnover suppression of this past year, because it hasn't happened over any length of time.
It is a simple post that Jones had a good rookie year aside from the turnovers and even then it was more his fumbles that were the worst part, INTs happen. They did happen, but you missed the point that he was making big plays before Schurmur was fired. It was clearly obvious that he could throw the football as he lead the league in deep throw accuracy. He didn't get the moniker Danny Dimes because of his salary.
Why would you say here is no evidence that he could replicate his scoring? The logical conclusion would be that a rookie would get better in subsequent seasons all things being equal. Yes injury to himself or WRs could derail it. But given the SAME coaching it is logical to conclude he would cut down on TOs and his throwing would also improve with natural progression in technique and awareness - experience. Yes there are QBs that start strong and flame out or do not improve.
Obviously the hiring of Judge and Garrett derailed his improvement. They restricted his growth, put in a set of simple to cover pass routes and did nothing to create an offense that was complex enough to confuse the defense. If you are told to not take chances on deep throws(and basically not even run them any) and to protect the ball at all costs - what do you think will happen? And it did - nothing or even regression. He sucked as did the offense.
Now, Daboll comes in, evaluates what Jones was capable of. Steadily increases the complexity as he finds WRs that can read defenses, run proper routes and both WRs and QB are on the same page. And you get the last 3/4 games of the year, sans The Eagles debacle. Next step is to get WRs that put some fear in the DBs and an oline that is capable of blocking.
Could this be as far as Jones gets in development? Yes, it is possible. I doubt it and obviously Schoen and Daboll think he has more in there. He will never be Burrow or Mahomes - they are unicorns. I doubt he becomes Allen(size and arm strength). Lawrence may get in there with Mahomes and Burrow. He doesn't have Lamar's running ability. Maybe he never gets to be as good as Herbert(can be close). But he can run, he has more than sufficient arm and is uber bright. Can he overcome some possible slowness in reads - this is his bugaboo. I thought he was massively better getting the ball out on time by year's end. I never thought he would do that.
Nothing is ever definite, but after what I saw Daboll, Kafka and Tierney did this year I would say that years two and three were lost years in his development. If you don't know what you don't know and nobody shows you, how can you learn and improve?
Remember - I wanted them to draft a new QB this off season or replace him. Based on last year, and half way through this year, I wanted someone else. I was all for not taking the 5th year option. I still have some reservations because bad Daniel still exists in there. Can Daboll exorcise that part? I am not certain but I sure as hell want to see if Daboll can finish what he started.
PHI: Hurts - yes
DAL: Dak - no (not a big enough upgrade)
WSH: no
NFC North:
GB: Rodgers - no (age)
MIN: Cousins - no
CHI: Fields - no (need to see more)
DET: Goff - yes
NFC South:
ATL: no
NO: no
CAR: no
TB: Brady - no (age)
NFC West:
SF: no
ARI: Murray - no (he’s talented, but don’t trust him)
SEA: no
LAR: Stafford - yes (health a concern though)
AFC East:
BUF: Allen - yes
MIA: Tua - no (injuries and not enough of an upgrade)
NE: no
NYJ: no
AFC North:
PIT: Pickett - no (still an unknown, high floor guy though it seems)
BAL: Jackson - yes
CLE: Watson - no (too much baggage)
CIN: Burrow - yes
AFC South:
JAX: Lawrence: yes
TEN: no
IND: no
HOU: no
AFC West:
KC: Mahomes - yes
LAC: Herbert - yes
LAV: no
DEN: Wilson - no
Derek Carr & Jimmy Garoppolo are not a big enough upgrade for me to move off Jones.
Greg Cosell made a good point to Cowherd last month. It is a lot to bring in a new QB and teach him a system, that doesn’t happen overnight. So, Jones is going to get the nod imo unless the upgrade is significant.
So, I would trade Jones straight up for 9 QB’s. Some are debatable. You could counter Goff & Stafford. You could argue Dak & Carr. This exercise puts Jones in a conversation for top 12ish QB. With that said, I’m still wary of giving him $40M AAV.
PHI: Hurts - yes
DAL: Dak - no (not a big enough upgrade)
WSH: no
NFC North:
GB: Rodgers - no (age)
MIN: Cousins - no
CHI: Fields - no (need to see more)
DET: Goff - yes
NFC South:
ATL: no
NO: no
CAR: no
TB: Brady - no (age)
NFC West:
SF: no
ARI: Murray - no (he’s talented, but don’t trust him)
SEA: no
LAR: Stafford - yes (health a concern though)
AFC East:
BUF: Allen - yes
MIA: Tua - no (injuries and not enough of an upgrade)
NE: no
NYJ: no
AFC North:
PIT: Pickett - no (still an unknown, high floor guy though it seems)
BAL: Jackson - yes
CLE: Watson - no (too much baggage)
CIN: Burrow - yes
AFC South:
JAX: Lawrence: yes
TEN: no
IND: no
HOU: no
AFC West:
KC: Mahomes - yes
LAC: Herbert - yes
LAV: no
DEN: Wilson - no
Derek Carr & Jimmy Garoppolo are not a big enough upgrade for me to move off Jones.
Greg Cosell made a good point to Cowherd last month. It is a lot to bring in a new QB and teach him a system, that doesn’t happen overnight. So, Jones is going to get the nod imo unless the upgrade is significant.
So, I would trade Jones straight up for 9 QB’s. Some are debatable. You could counter Goff & Stafford. You could argue Dak & Carr. This exercise puts Jones in a conversation for top 12ish QB. With that said, I’m still wary of giving him $40M AAV.
With respect I say, I think you are asking the wrong question.
It shouldn't be about who is better than who, which will reshuffle every year anyway. Maybe this year you like Jones better than Carr, JimmyG and Wilson, but maybe next year you don't.
The question we should all be asking, imo, is Jones good enough to win a championship, especially at a high salary. That's more of a binary. What good is the 9th, 12th or 15th best QB is you still can't win trophies with him. Or is it good enough to be a mediocre team that qualifies for the playoffs half the time and gets bounced in the divisional or wild card round, as an expected outcome?
But, Jones is good enough to get in the playoffs and has won a road playoff game. Would I rather that than the Jets, Falcons or Saints? I’d rather have Jones than have no one.
It’s hard to find that guy. So hopefully the contract is reasonable and then Schoen can pounce when the time is right to upgrade.
But, Jones is good enough to get in the playoffs and has won a road playoff game. Would I rather that than the Jets, Falcons or Saints? I’d rather have Jones than have no one.
It’s hard to find that guy. So hopefully the contract is reasonable and then Schoen can pounce when the time is right to upgrade.
That's probably where we part ways, and I usually agree with your takes.
I think you have to be bold enough to "not have a guy" when you are looking for THE GUY. There are always ways to get a QB. The draft, trades, free agency. The 49ers got Purdy in the last round, we can do things like that too. Daboll and Schoen seem smart enough.
I'm not someone who loves half measures. I know they won't do this, but I would look to trade Jones now, at his peak value. I would tag and trade if I had to. Look at Philly, they haven't been scared to make dramatic shifts. It's working for them and they are kicking our asses. Schoen and Daboll need to be unafraid. If they don't think they will win a championship with Jones they need to move on. Philly moved on from a QB who played at an MVP level their championship year. That was only 6 years ago. They moved on from the coach. Now they have a new coach and QB. People here think Roseman is going to struggle with the cap next season. Maybe, but so far he is a step ahead of the league.
Signing Daniel Jones to elite dollars will be the most Giants thing ever. Let's hope we don't make that mistake, if Schoen and Daboll are unconvinced about his quality.
What I really like is that he has had a really challenging environment his first four years and he didn't break in a very tough market and his 5th year was not guaranteed. This is very meaningful to me and a good indicator for handling big moments that hopefully happen more often in the playoffs. Getting a playoff win was huge and the late season games to get into the playoffs.
I don't like expensive QB's but its where they are now.
Now he has to take the next step and show more in the passing game and Schoen needs to get the pieces. You need a good OL in this division as this season showed the pesky LOS situation still exists. Then WR help and I be all for another TE.
I think Herbert is a bit over rated and he also plays in the AFC. Historically they have been the more high flying offenses over decades often stomped when they meet those physical NFC teams or AFC teams who are built like NFC teams. LAC would be better served building a better D and getting a run game if they want to win a SB. Less passer yardage but a better team.
This year LAC was trounced by San Fran and Herbert had a rough day. Last year the Ravens did the same thing. When the Giants played Dallas, Philly and WFT you could make a case all of those D's were top 5.
The NFC has one more SB than the AFC. NE, Baltimore, Steelers and Raiders won 17 of those. Good OL's with pretty balanced offenses who play D. I am curious to see the trend moving forward.
When I look at QB's I consider this as part of the evaluation.
More important than Jones I hope JS/BD go the right way in continuing to build this team. I don't see the NFCE softening in the next couple years. Giants need to be ready to give Jones the best chance imv.
I still hope this contract is either something they can get out of after a couple years.
If anything, the Niners have proved to be aggressive at QB always. Like the Niners and Eagles, I think the Giants should draft a QB every year. That infuriates fans, but always need a pipeline at the position. Look at SF, they trade up for Lance, and still draft Purdy the next year in the 7th round. It paid off.
If anything, the Niners have proved to be aggressive at QB always. Like the Niners and Eagles, I think the Giants should draft a QB every year. That infuriates fans, but always need a pipeline at the position. Look at SF, they trade up for Lance, and still draft Purdy the next year in the 7th round. It paid off.
100%
Herbert’s QB rating against some of the best teams in football over his three years:
Chiefs: 107.3
Cincinnati: 118
Buffalo: 75
Dallas: 87
Pittsburgh: 116 (top 10 pass defense last year, even if they were only 9-7-1)
Tampa: 138
Slightly overrated huh?
Herbert’s QB rating against some of the best teams in football over his three years:
Chiefs: 107.3
Cincinnati: 118
Buffalo: 75
Dallas: 87
Pittsburgh: 116 (top 10 pass defense last year, even if they were only 9-7-1)
Tampa: 138
Slightly overrated huh?
Yes for me. I'll just point out a few game but I am not going to deep on all these games. KC had a very young D and they played them game 2 and midseason. Dallas they scored 17 points. Steelers were not in the playoffs so I would not be touting them and part of why they had that pass ranking is because teams were running for about 150 yards/game against them.
Correct did not have two WR's for SF but he did for Baltimore. Tougher when you don't have pieces right?
How many WR's have shuffled through in Jones time and this year?
Little defensive for saying a little over rated huh?
The Steelers team that Herbert faced did make the playoffs. Google is free.
The greatest QB in the history of our franchise was never able to accomplish the numbers that Herbert put up in his second year. Producer is right, any objective football fan knows that Herbert is a lot better than Jones.
I guarantee you that if Jones were on the Falcons everyone on this board would acknowledge that Herbert is far better.
I didn't make a comparison. I talked about Jones and what I saw. I just said I think he is a little over rated. I never have called Jones a elite QB or even a franchise one. I also said if Young dropped in the draft I would want JS to go and get him.
You posted QBR's. That's not my style. The point I made is some teams in the AFC build to be a passing team and often the tough D's cause these teams problems. This is not just a Herbert issue.
In you list you provided two of those games they scored 17 points (Buffalo another) and one twenty. I provided two teams who had good D's to make the broader point about style of football. So while he got his yards in some it did not result in points. WFT is another game same deal.
You did catch that part I said about the NFC and NFCE I am sure and the relevance to Jones.
Spare me your NFC East ground and pound fan porn. A QB that can go toe to toe with the best in the league isn’t overrated. His first two years were historic in terms of first two years in the league.
Can you imagine any of them blowing the jags game? It just wouldn’t happen. Those guys start the season as division champs. Anything less is disappointing.
He has elite tools and certainly can get into that class but to say he is there now cheapens the term.
I’m not sure why ppl are so invested in this. Go to a chargers board if you need a rub and tug
But, Jones is good enough to get in the playoffs and has won a road playoff game. Would I rather that than the Jets, Falcons or Saints? I’d rather have Jones than have no one.
It’s hard to find that guy. So hopefully the contract is reasonable and then Schoen can pounce when the time is right to upgrade.
This is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen that keeps coming up...
DJ has 60 passing TDs in 4 years...Herbert has 94 in THREE.
In Herbert's worst year he threw for 25 TDs...in 2019, DJs best year, he threw for 24.
I Herbert's best year, he threw for 38 TDs...DJ has 37 passing TDs in the last THREE YEARS COMBINED.
Herbert had torn cartilage in his ribs this year, DJ was healthy. Herbert still threw for 10 more TDs.
Those saying they wouldn't trade for Herbert are morons. You know who would trade for Herbert...Schoen...and he'd do it in a second. Stop the stupidity! Get back to comparing DJ to Tanbehill...even though Tannehill has better career numbers.
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That’s where I struggle. I don’t like Jones enough to give him a blank check, so I’m saying right there he’s limited. You can’t overpay QB’s like Mahomes, they talent is overwhelming.
But, Jones is good enough to get in the playoffs and has won a road playoff game. Would I rather that than the Jets, Falcons or Saints? I’d rather have Jones than have no one.
It’s hard to find that guy. So hopefully the contract is reasonable and then Schoen can pounce when the time is right to upgrade.
This is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen that keeps coming up...
DJ has 60 passing TDs in 4 years...Herbert has 94 in THREE.
In Herbert's worst year he threw for 25 TDs...in 2019, DJs best year, he threw for 24.
I Herbert's best year, he threw for 38 TDs...DJ has 37 passing TDs in the last THREE YEARS COMBINED.
Herbert had torn cartilage in his ribs this year, DJ was healthy. Herbert still threw for 10 more TDs.
Those saying they wouldn't trade for Herbert are morons. You know who would trade for Herbert...Schoen...and he'd do it in a second. Stop the stupidity! Get back to comparing DJ to Tanbehill...even though Tannehill has better career numbers.
What part of different offenses do you not understand? How hard is it to comprehend that one team is designed to throw the football all game and the other is designed to control the game through running the ball? What part of throwing the ball 1.5 times as many times per game produces 50% more yards through the air?
With all those yards that Herbert has, how many playoff wins do they have in those three years?
You are probably right that Schoen swaps Herbert for Jones because even marginal improvement is a step in the right direction. We even know that DG would have taken Herbert had he come out in 2019. Herbert has great numbers, how has that done for the Chargers?
It’s more than a marginal improvement.
What part of different offenses do you not get? The Chargers run a high powered pass oriented offense. The Giants virtually never have. They don't have the WRs to do that and have not since 2012 and even then were a ground game first team. Even with Nicks, VC and Manningham they ran Bradshaw and Jacobs as their primary offensive weapons.
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And if he threw 1966 passes total he’s still only at 82 touchdowns.
What part of different offenses do you not get? The Chargers run a high powered pass oriented offense. The Giants virtually never have. They don't have the WRs to do that and have not since 2012 and even then were a ground game first team. Even with Nicks, VC and Manningham they ran Bradshaw and Jacobs as their primary offensive weapons.
Lol.. the Chargers have a dysfunctional offense with no offensive brain (until K Moore). Herbert's "great weapons" were MIA most of the year. Keenan Allen is no longer a top 12 guy, he's a shadow of the player he was. Yet Herbert had a fine year.
Daniel Jones has an alleged offensive guru and QB whisperer who decided, based on Jones' skills, he would play like the '78 Bills.
If Herbert was with the Giants I assure you Daboll would do a lot more passing.
PHI: Hurts - yes
DAL: Dak - no (not a big enough upgrade)
WSH: no
NFC North:
GB: Rodgers - no (age)
MIN: Cousins - no
CHI: Fields - no (need to see more)
DET: Goff - yes
NFC South:
ATL: no
NO: no
CAR: no
TB: Brady - no (age)
NFC West:
SF: no
ARI: Murray - no (he’s talented, but don’t trust him)
SEA: no
LAR: Stafford - yes (health a concern though)
AFC East:
BUF: Allen - yes
MIA: Tua - no (injuries and not enough of an upgrade)
NE: no
NYJ: no
AFC North:
PIT: Pickett - no (still an unknown, high floor guy though it seems)
BAL: Jackson - yes
CLE: Watson - no (too much baggage)
CIN: Burrow - yes
AFC South:
JAX: Lawrence: yes
TEN: no
IND: no
HOU: no
AFC West:
KC: Mahomes - yes
LAC: Herbert - yes
LAV: no
DEN: Wilson - no
Derek Carr & Jimmy Garoppolo are not a big enough upgrade for me to move off Jones.
Greg Cosell made a good point to Cowherd last month. It is a lot to bring in a new QB and teach him a system, that doesn’t happen overnight. So, Jones is going to get the nod imo unless the upgrade is significant.
So, I would trade Jones straight up for 9 QB’s. Some are debatable. You could counter Goff & Stafford. You could argue Dak & Carr. This exercise puts Jones in a conversation for top 12ish QB. With that said, I’m still wary of giving him $40M AAV.
Sean, I agree on most every point, although I wouldn't take Watson or Jackson, due to character and cost issues respectively. I would take Jackson if the contract were the same. I am fine with $40 AAV as long as it is a team favorable structure (i.e. 5 years and big non guaranteed salaries in year 4 & 5).
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And if he threw 1966 passes total he’s still only at 82 touchdowns.
What part of different offenses do you not get? The Chargers run a high powered pass oriented offense. The Giants virtually never have. They don't have the WRs to do that and have not since 2012 and even then were a ground game first team. Even with Nicks, VC and Manningham they ran Bradshaw and Jacobs as their primary offensive weapons.
If Jones played in the Chargers offense is he throwing 94 touchdowns in 3 years?
If Jones played in the Chargers offense is he throwing 94 touchdowns in 3 years?
I don't know and neither do you. Nobody knows. Logic dictates that no, Jones does not have those numbers. He was incomplete when drafted. Of course the Chargers' OC and QB coach were likely much better than what Jones had his 1st three years. It is a different style of offense. But I just looked it up, for all the great stats Herbert has, the Chargers are 2 games over .500 since he was there.
I am really not here to talk up Jones. My only purpose was to refute Producer's asinine posts and then I got caught up in the silliness of idle speculation. It was worth the back and forth for a while, but I ended up losing sight of my purpose. In totality, Herbert has been the better QB, partly because of circumstance and partly because of talent. I just do not think there is a big difference in talent and what difference there is, is in mental acuity(?). Herbert reads and reacts faster than Jones, he also has the far superior WRs which do make it easier to read and react.
While Herbert maybe close to the 5th best QB in the NFL, I certainly do not believe that Jones is the 18th - 8-12 range is likely.
It’s more mutual than people want to believe. For the most part in the NFL WRs are open for a split second.
https://twitter.com/pfn365/status/1607558303042895879?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/robschiff316/status/1602124366657069057?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/justinbtw_/status/1604675379444256769?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
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Herbert reads and reacts faster than Jones, he also has the far superior WRs which do make it easier to read and react.
It’s more mutual than people want to believe. For the most part in the NFL WRs are open for a split second.
Yes our WR is top notch.
Who had a worse WR core than us this year? Or I guess you’re saying that doesn’t matter? Eye roll (and I love reading most of your posts, btw; you are super knowledgeable)
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Herbert reads and reacts faster than Jones, he also has the far superior WRs which do make it easier to read and react.
It’s more mutual than people want to believe. For the most part in the NFL WRs are open for a split second.
Yes our WR is top notch.
Who had a worse WR core than us this year? Or I guess you’re saying that doesn’t matter? Eye roll (and I love reading most of your posts, btw; you are super knowledgeable)
As bad as the Giants WRs were, Jones still completed 67% of his throws and the WRs actually caught most things they got their hands on - yes Slayton was not as good as Hodgins and James. So he pretty much got the ball into tight windows.
More likely the scheme causing coverage failures. You can only throw a guy open if there is a hole in the coverage that the WR can run into. Yes the ball has to be properly lead. If you have a Tyrek Hill, he just runs past people. If you have a Victor Cruz, he just spins then around.
https://twitter.com/pfn365/status/1607558303042895879?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/robschiff316/status/1602124366657069057?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/justinbtw_/status/1604675379444256769?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
I’m sure he’ll do well in the skills competition.
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Jones doesn’t have throws like these in his arsenal
https://twitter.com/pfn365/status/1607558303042895879?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/robschiff316/status/1602124366657069057?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/justinbtw_/status/1604675379444256769?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
I’m sure he’ll do well in the skills competition.
94 touchdowns in 3 years on the field with a down year.
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In comment 16021599 ajr2456 said:
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Jones doesn’t have throws like these in his arsenal
https://twitter.com/pfn365/status/1607558303042895879?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/robschiff316/status/1602124366657069057?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
https://twitter.com/justinbtw_/status/1604675379444256769?s=46&t=hf6alpV7mFSYWy3m0dfNfg
I’m sure he’ll do well in the skills competition.
94 touchdowns in 3 years on the field with a down year.
Kirk Cousins level. Actually 3 less than Kirk. You don’t think DJ can replicate the 2 TD per game rate we saw as a rookie if he had decent skill players and more passing volume?
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I don't know and neither do you. Nobody knows. Logic dictates that no, Jones does not have those numbers. He was incomplete when drafted.
What are you talking about? Jones was deemed the most pro ready QB in the 2019 draft as he played three years under Cutcliffe.
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In comment 16021352 Sean said:
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That’s where I struggle. I don’t like Jones enough to give him a blank check, so I’m saying right there he’s limited. You can’t overpay QB’s like Mahomes, they talent is overwhelming.
But, Jones is good enough to get in the playoffs and has won a road playoff game. Would I rather that than the Jets, Falcons or Saints? I’d rather have Jones than have no one.
It’s hard to find that guy. So hopefully the contract is reasonable and then Schoen can pounce when the time is right to upgrade.
This is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen that keeps coming up...
DJ has 60 passing TDs in 4 years...Herbert has 94 in THREE.
In Herbert's worst year he threw for 25 TDs...in 2019, DJs best year, he threw for 24.
I Herbert's best year, he threw for 38 TDs...DJ has 37 passing TDs in the last THREE YEARS COMBINED.
Herbert had torn cartilage in his ribs this year, DJ was healthy. Herbert still threw for 10 more TDs.
Those saying they wouldn't trade for Herbert are morons. You know who would trade for Herbert...Schoen...and he'd do it in a second. Stop the stupidity! Get back to comparing DJ to Tanbehill...even though Tannehill has better career numbers.
What part of different offenses do you not understand? How hard is it to comprehend that one team is designed to throw the football all game and the other is designed to control the game through running the ball? What part of throwing the ball 1.5 times as many times per game produces 50% more yards through the air?
With all those yards that Herbert has, how many playoff wins do they have in those three years?
You are probably right that Schoen swaps Herbert for Jones because even marginal improvement is a step in the right direction. We even know that DG would have taken Herbert had he come out in 2019. Herbert has great numbers, how has that done for the Chargers?
What part of better QB do you not understand? This originated with DJ fans upset the Herbert was ranked 5th and DJ 15th, in some talking head's list if the best NFL QBs. Then the DJ fans started cherry picking stats, from one year, to try to make an argument. When presented with career stats to backup the rankings, you resort back to hypotheticals, feelings, and hopes to make your case.
In ANY OFFENSE, Herbert is a better QB.
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In comment 16021115 section125 said:
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I didn't bring up stats. Re-read what I wrote. I simply said this was Herbert's poorest season of his career. And for Jones, this was the best year of his career. Can we agree on that?
If you are giving Jones mulligans for his second and third years, can I give Herbert a mulligan for this year? ;)
If you did not use stats, how did you come to your conclusion - how did you conclude that this was Herbert's worst season? (Your reply is approaching Producer level - ha ha j/k) You may not have stated stats, but your thought process certainly included them or else there is no comparison possible.
No, Herbert's "poor" year vs what Jones went through his previous two seasons are not comparable(and they are just different) - they are simply not by any logical conclusion. One had a smart, competent HC, OC and supporting players. The other had an incompetent HC and a overmatched and strangulated OC with a simplistic offensive plan with lack of direction and creativity, plus a lack of supporting players. I say this because look what the current coaching staff did vs the previous staff.
And, QBs(players) are allowed to have off years because injuries occur and they are not machines - so Herbert does have some excuse/allowance for being a bit off.
It appears, that beside his own limitations, Jones was absolutely a victim of poor coaching. Take away the turnovers, and Jones 1st year was very good. What happened between year 1 and year 4?
You don't like stats (I wouldn't either if I was a DJ fan), but then say, "take away the turnovers (a stat)"? DJ has "taken away the turnovers", since his rookie year, and it's resulted in 36 passing TDs in 41 games?
Do us all a favor...list all the QBs, making $30+ million per year, who haven't thrown for 1 TD per game in any of their last 3 seasons. Don't start making excuses, just list them.
1.
2.
3.
Good luck!
Megalomaniac is a novel one. For literally writing a mainstream opinion. Do we all know what megalomaniac means? I'd love to know who you voted for Walker -- if you think my behavior here looks like megalomania to you.
Mon ami, I know exacty what megalomania means, for the record I would say there is a about a .005% chance you are better educated than I so don't be a condescing jerk off. I will say that you are halway adept at the strawman game because I didn't say a word about Hebert but good try! And if you must know I usually vote Green as I have a complete disdain for both parties!