In the spirit of the 2007 trade Eli thread. What QB would you trade DJ for. For the purposes of this analysis, assume DJ is signed for 4/$110MM $75 guaranteed - don't want to argue if that is the right contract, just want to hear thought about who you would take on their current contract if those were DJ's numbers.
Some obvious yeses - Burrows, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert
Some obvious nos - Wilson, Murray, Rodgers, Ryan, Wentz
Feel free to disagree on the obvious.
So who else. Watson, Prescott, definite nos for me. No to Stafford at his cap hit ($150/3) and age. Goff probably not (2/$60). Lawrence a definite yes. Tannehill no based on age and only 1 year on contract. Carr? maybe the toughest call. 3/$120/$40 guaranteed. Better contract than DJ if you want to get out after 1 year. Worse if you are thinking long term hold.
So what do you think. Anyone you drool over that is not mentioned? Anyone of my obviouses that you have different answer? Jump in!
There are not a lot of good options since the Giants can sign DJ and work the cap to push the money in the future. I think cap wise he makes the most sense if wecan get a long term deal. The Giants know the player, they dont know the guy they are getting.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
There are not a lot of good options since the Giants can sign DJ and work the cap to push the money in the future. I think cap wise he makes the most sense if wecan get a long term deal. The Giants know the player, they dont know the guy they are getting.
Even a trade would require a lot of resources. Trading for a top QB from 25 will take an additional 2 first round picks at a minimum. Factor in a fully guard rookie deal of around $8m AAV, and it’s not exactly a cheap proposition.
I think it’s fair to both sides.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
I would agree on all of this.
My way of thinking about it is that there are 3 can't miss, great QBs in the NFL right now: Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes, in some order. They are the triumvirate. *Everyone* else is significantly below them in some sort of undifferentiated mass. Jones is in the undifferentiated mass, where the difference between 4 and 15 is probably less than the difference between 4 and 3.
This might be overstating the case, and I think by next year some of this will shake out a little more. (Lawrence, Hurts, and Herbert might ascend more. Heck, Jones might too.)
If Jones were entering Year 3 off of this season as Year 2, I think people would be much, much more optimistic about his future. But the contract is the thing, and they've squandered his rookie deal.
I think it’s fair to both sides.
Months ago I said 3 for $100M. Yearly amount probably still in the ballpark but you're probably right with the 4 year length of the deal, possibly even 5.
The first DIFFERENTIATION is whether you have a Guy who can play the position At All!...Jones Can! They could pass on hom and maybe plug Garropolo or Carr...I'm not sure I see another passable baseline guy...and I'm not able to know whether they would be heavier or lighter financial cost than Jones. Also, I think they might have a good amount of untapped upside with Jones, versus Carr or Jimmy G. I think you sign hoim AND Build out...and Draft QB's at opportunity slots going forward.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
Herbert is better but he went about half of his games or more throwing 1 td or less on a team with Mike Williams, Kennan Allen and Austin Eckler and ended his season with 25 tds and 10 picks. Lets not act like he lit the league on fire.
Moving forward I think Lawrence will be the better qb. I also thought both Goff and Allen outplayed Herbert this year.
I agree with people not putting him in the top 3 right now.
There are not a lot of good options since the Giants can sign DJ and work the cap to push the money in the future. I think cap wise he makes the most sense if we can get a long term deal. The Giants know the player, they dont know the guy they are getting.
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
Was the question "What QB was on the wrong side of a 4 touchdown playoff comeback?", on that test?
If you polled every football person, players, coaches, front office, etc., 99.9% would take Herbert. Maybe 100%.
You're just a homer. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Williams and Maye have much better physical skills than Jones.
Hell, I think it's worth moving Jones now to have a crack at Stroud or Young.
Existing QBs? Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, LJax, Lawrence.
If Watson didn't have his luggage, he's a great talent.
I'd love to see how Daboll would craft and develop Justin Fields because he's got such a great basket of skills.
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
No, not yet. Jones and Herbert are not far apart. I like Herbert, but he isn't up there with Burrow, Mahomes and Allen.
I find it interesting that DG liked Herbert and would have taken him(if he made it to the Giants at #6). So my guess is that DG viewed Herbert and Jones as similar in make up/ability with Herbert slightly ahead.
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besides the obvious yesses you have listed. If you are moving on from DJ I think it would be a trade for the opportunity to draft one of the top QBs.
There are not a lot of good options since the Giants can sign DJ and work the cap to push the money in the future. I think cap wise he makes the most sense if we can get a long term deal. The Giants know the player, they dont know the guy they are getting.
Not one of the qb's in the up coming draft is as good as Daniel Jones, the Giants would be wise to retain hi.
At least 2 of these QBs are more valuable than Jones, and maybe up to 4. But you're a homer and entitled to your opinion
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In comment 16020608 Gogiantsgo said:
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
No, not yet. Jones and Herbert are not far apart. I like Herbert, but he isn't up there with Burrow, Mahomes and Allen.
I find it interesting that DG liked Herbert and would have taken him(if he made it to the Giants at #6). So my guess is that DG viewed Herbert and Jones as similar in make up/ability with Herbert slightly ahead.
They are quite far apart. The only people who would trade Herbert for Jones are on this board. That means they are far apart.
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Straight up. I take Jones.
If you polled every football person, players, coaches, front office, etc., 99.9% would take Herbert. Maybe 100%.
You're just a homer. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Since 99.9% of the posts you have made that contain the word Jones have been wrong (well maybe a 100%) I am going to assume you are wrong here. You're just a hater. You decide whether there is something wrong with that.
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In comment 16020759 JerseyCityJoe said:
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Straight up. I take Jones.
If you polled every football person, players, coaches, front office, etc., 99.9% would take Herbert. Maybe 100%.
You're just a homer. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Since 99.9% of the posts you have made that contain the word Jones have been wrong (well maybe a 100%) I am going to assume you are wrong here. You're just a hater. You decide whether there is something wrong with that.
I don't hate Jones. I'm in the land of reality. Find me any QB power ranking anywhere on the interwebs (and there are dozens) that place Jones ahead of Herbert. I bet I can find 6 that show Herbert>Jones in ten minutes.
5. Herbert
18. Jones
QB power rank - ( New Window )
Williams and Maye have much better physical skills than Jones.
Hell, I think it's worth moving Jones now to have a crack at Stroud or Young.
Existing QBs? Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, LJax, Lawrence.
If Watson didn't have his luggage, he's a great talent.
I'd love to see how Daboll would craft and develop Justin Fields because he's got such a great basket of skills.
I'd probably agree with you on all 6. HOWEVER, a part of me would almost never want Lamar Jackson because I simply don't trust him to get the ball where it needs to be in a tough spot or must have drive. His arm is just a little too wild for me. Great runner though.
I'd probably agree with you on all 6. HOWEVER, a part of me would almost never want Lamar Jackson because I simply don't trust him to get the ball where it needs to be in a tough spot or must have drive. His arm is just a little too wild for me. Great runner though.
I gave LJax the most thought for a different reason - durability.
If Daboll could re-wire Allen's football brain to make better decisions, I trust he could do similar work with LJax.
Still, when he's healthy, LJax is very productive and wins a lot of games. And he's been doing that with - mostly - an underwhelming supporting cast.
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
WTF does that mean? Power rating. On what planet is Herbert 5th in the NFL, never mind where Jones 18th.
Herbert is marginally better than Jones.
But we know, you accuse everyone of cherry picking stats and then you do it yourself. When it is pointed out you slink away.
Williams and Maye have much better physical skills than Jones.
Hell, I think it's worth moving Jones now to have a crack at Stroud or Young.
Existing QBs? Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, LJax, Lawrence.
If Watson didn't have his luggage, he's a great talent.
I'd love to see how Daboll would craft and develop Justin Fields because he's got such a great basket of skills.
I would not trade Jones for LJax now. Lamar is damaged goods and his running style will only get him hurt worse. Yes Jones runs too, but it is different.
Two years ago, that would be a no brainer.
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
👀
Funny shit. Jalen Hurts #2. Justin fields #13. Could not possibly LMAO any more. THat's a popularity poll apparently written by nitwits.
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Oh look here's a qb power ranking from 2 weeks ago:
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
WTF does that mean? Power rating. On what planet is Herbert 5th in the NFL, never mind where Jones 18th.
Herbert is marginally better than Jones.
But we know, you accuse everyone of cherry picking stats and then you do it yourself. When it is pointed out you slink away.
If you think Herbert is marginally better than Jones the problem here is your judgement about the matter. You're a homer who can't be objective. When everyone outside of your Giants bubble takes player A over player B, every single observer, that's not marginal. That's absolute.
But you're entitled to be a non-objective homer. There's nothing wrong with that.
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
We've been waiting to find out who Marc Sessler thought threw one of the prettiest balls in all the land. Thanks for this.
I would not trade Jones for LJax now. Lamar is damaged goods and his running style will only get him hurt worse. Yes Jones runs too, but it is different.
Two years ago, that would be a no brainer.
Ironically, LJax has sustained his injuries in the pocket, not getting loose downfield.
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I would not trade Jones for LJax now. Lamar is damaged goods and his running style will only get him hurt worse. Yes Jones runs too, but it is different.
Two years ago, that would be a no brainer.
Ironically, LJax has sustained his injuries in the pocket, not getting loose downfield.
Even worse....
When do I get to take my victory lap for the 4y/$135M (against a $225M cap) that I've been predicting for months? Can any victory lap experts chime in here? Ryan, any advice on when to take my victory lap? Do I have to wait for my prediction to come true, or can I start now for already having the correct framework in place?
I'm never 100% sure how the victory laps work since "victory" or even "correctness" is rarely a requirement.
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In comment 16020819 Producer said:
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Oh look here's a qb power ranking from 2 weeks ago:
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
WTF does that mean? Power rating. On what planet is Herbert 5th in the NFL, never mind where Jones 18th.
Herbert is marginally better than Jones.
But we know, you accuse everyone of cherry picking stats and then you do it yourself. When it is pointed out you slink away.
If you think Herbert is marginally better than Jones the problem here is your judgement about the matter. You're a homer who can't be objective. When everyone outside of your Giants bubble takes player A over player B, every single observer, that's not marginal. That's absolute.
But you're entitled to be a non-objective homer. There's nothing wrong with that.
Don't be a condescending a$$hole. I wasn't even on the Jones bandwagon until recently and begrudgingly returned and I still have some lingering reservations. But Herbert is NOT that much better than Jones. He is NOT near Burrow, Mahomes or Allen. With all the tools he has, Herbert is not getting the job done as well as he should be if he is so wonderful.
Is he better, yes, a little bit. Would I trade for him? Not sure.
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
Welp that settles it. NFL com loves HErbert from 2 weeks ago. EOT.
DJ has a playoff win. Herbert doesn't. Both teams scored about the same pts this season, Chargers edging NYG by about 14 pts. And then the Giants outscored them in the WC game thanks to an elite game from Jones.
HErbert ball washers lost ground this year. Suck it up.
Williams and Maye have much better physical skills than Jones.
Hell, I think it's worth moving Jones now to have a crack at Stroud or Young.
Existing QBs? Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, LJax, Lawrence.
If Watson didn't have his luggage, he's a great talent.
I'd love to see how Daboll would craft and develop Justin Fields because he's got such a great basket of skills.
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In comment 16020833 section125 said:
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In comment 16020819 Producer said:
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Oh look here's a qb power ranking from 2 weeks ago:
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
WTF does that mean? Power rating. On what planet is Herbert 5th in the NFL, never mind where Jones 18th.
Herbert is marginally better than Jones.
But we know, you accuse everyone of cherry picking stats and then you do it yourself. When it is pointed out you slink away.
If you think Herbert is marginally better than Jones the problem here is your judgement about the matter. You're a homer who can't be objective. When everyone outside of your Giants bubble takes player A over player B, every single observer, that's not marginal. That's absolute.
But you're entitled to be a non-objective homer. There's nothing wrong with that.
Don't be a condescending a$$hole. I wasn't even on the Jones bandwagon until recently and begrudgingly returned and I still have some lingering reservations. But Herbert is NOT that much better than Jones. He is NOT near Burrow, Mahomes or Allen. With all the tools he has, Herbert is not getting the job done as well as he should be if he is so wonderful.
Is he better, yes, a little bit. Would I trade for him? Not sure.
I really enjoy chatting with you. But only on BBI do folks get called names for espousing uncontroversial positions.
By the way, i didn't cherry pick NFL.com ranks, they were literally the first one I looked at. I'm out and about but later on I'll post here another 6. They will be the first 6 I click on, i promise. What will it mean? Simply it will tell us something about the perception of the two players. I think Herbert will be well ahead of Jones on every list. Perception. That's all I'm talking about.
Have a good day section125. I'll post my list later
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In comment 16020608 Gogiantsgo said:
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
Herbert is better but he went about half of his games or more throwing 1 td or less on a team with Mike Williams, Kennan Allen and Austin Eckler and ended his season with 25 tds and 10 picks. Lets not act like he lit the league on fire.
Moving forward I think Lawrence will be the better qb. I also thought both Goff and Allen outplayed Herbert this year.
I agree with people not putting him in the top 3 right now.
For all the people who responded to me that disagree with my above post. I'm going to respond to you first and then to everyone.
Going off of memory, I think Herbert played 5 games total this year with both Williams and Allen in the lineup. He also lost his LT and best OL I think week 1 or 2, in Rashawn Slater.
I know, I know, now you're going to tell me about DJ's lack of weapons and OL. I've never said that doesn't matter. It does. But by some metrics, his OL was worse than the Giants this year. They were both relatively bad, but Herbert's was bad all year. Jones was really bad for a 4-6 week stretch in the middle of the season, then, IMO, ascended back to mediocre once Neal and Bredeson came back. Yes, even with Neal's struggles, he's better than Phillips and Peart. I realize OL comparisons have a level of subjectivity to it, but even if I concede that they were equally bad, it doesn't matter to the thesis, that Herbert is far and away a better QB than Jones.
But there is further context on Herbert. He fractured rib cartilage in week 2, which is a 4 to 6 week injury that he played through, that's a significant portion of the games.
And, despite all these setbacks, he threw for over 4700 yards, 25-10 TD-INT, and over 68% pass completion.
Taking both players rushing production together, Herbert accounted for about a 1,000 more yards of offense and 3 more TDs.
But finally, and MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, is my final point. BBI has a problem with making broad conclusions based on one season, the most recent season, rather than the larger body of work. This is not good reasoning or logic.
People talk about players regressing. Often times, particularly players that are still young and in their athletic primes, there are on-field reasons for statistical regression that have little to nothing to do with the player's ability or talent. As was the case with Herbert for the reasons stated above. But if you look at the careers comparatively, not just the most recent season (in which Herbert was undoubtedly more productive than Jones), Herbert has already shown he is capable of MVP-level type of production, and he's done so for much of the time having a below-average OL, mind you.
Herbert is a QB that just concluded his 3rd professional season. In his FIRST two seasons, Herbert amassed over 9,300 passing yards and 69 passing TDs. Taken with rushing totals, Herbert has accounted for 9,886 yards and 77 TDs in his FIRST TWO SEASONS. In 2021, Herbert passed for more than 5,000 yards and 38 TDs, running for 300 yards and 3 TDs more.
So yes, Herbert is a BBI IQ test, and if you think DJ is at all close to Herbert, you DID fail. The next time that DJ accounts for 75% of the TDs that Herbert did in 2021, that will be his first.
If Jones duplicated what Herbert did AS A ROOKIE, it would be a career year for him.
So please, compare DJ's best season in 4 years to Herbert's worst season in 3, a season in which Herbert was the more productive player, and tell me how DJ should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Justin Herbert. Do better, be better than this. Just try to be a little objective and think before you post. FFS.
I really enjoy chatting with you. But only on BBI do folks get called names for espousing uncontroversial positions.
By the way, i didn't cherry pick NFL.com ranks, they were literally the first one I looked at. I'm out and about but later on I'll post here another 6. They will be the first 6 I click on, i promise. What will it mean? Simply it will tell us something about the perception of the two players. I think Herbert will be well ahead of Jones on every list. Perception. That's all I'm talking about.
Have a good day section125. I'll post my list later
You are what I said your are. You post crap, when called out on it you either slink away or you deflect to another topic and drop a condescending line to be annoying.
Perception - there you go - a term for opinion based on belief. Deflect and slink away. You are very good at it.
Save your perceptions as if they hold water.
When do I get to take my victory lap for the 4y/$135M (against a $225M cap) that I've been predicting for months? Can any victory lap experts chime in here? Ryan, any advice on when to take my victory lap? Do I have to wait for my prediction to come true, or can I start now for already having the correct framework in place?
I'm never 100% sure how the victory laps work since "victory" or even "correctness" is rarely a requirement.
Put your swimmies on and take that victory lap.
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In comment 16020842 Producer said:
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In comment 16020833 section125 said:
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In comment 16020819 Producer said:
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Oh look here's a qb power ranking from 2 weeks ago:
5. Herbert
18. Jones QB power rank - ( New Window )
WTF does that mean? Power rating. On what planet is Herbert 5th in the NFL, never mind where Jones 18th.
Herbert is marginally better than Jones.
But we know, you accuse everyone of cherry picking stats and then you do it yourself. When it is pointed out you slink away.
If you think Herbert is marginally better than Jones the problem here is your judgement about the matter. You're a homer who can't be objective. When everyone outside of your Giants bubble takes player A over player B, every single observer, that's not marginal. That's absolute.
But you're entitled to be a non-objective homer. There's nothing wrong with that.
Don't be a condescending a$$hole. I wasn't even on the Jones bandwagon until recently and begrudgingly returned and I still have some lingering reservations. But Herbert is NOT that much better than Jones. He is NOT near Burrow, Mahomes or Allen. With all the tools he has, Herbert is not getting the job done as well as he should be if he is so wonderful.
Is he better, yes, a little bit. Would I trade for him? Not sure.
I really enjoy chatting with you. But only on BBI do folks get called names for espousing uncontroversial positions.
By the way, i didn't cherry pick NFL.com ranks, they were literally the first one I looked at. I'm out and about but later on I'll post here another 6. They will be the first 6 I click on, i promise. What will it mean? Simply it will tell us something about the perception of the two players. I think Herbert will be well ahead of Jones on every list. Perception. That's all I'm talking about.
Have a good day section125. I'll post my list later
That's not true. I'm sure you get called names in a lot of places.
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In comment 16020728 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16020608 Gogiantsgo said:
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
Herbert is better but he went about half of his games or more throwing 1 td or less on a team with Mike Williams, Kennan Allen and Austin Eckler and ended his season with 25 tds and 10 picks. Lets not act like he lit the league on fire.
Moving forward I think Lawrence will be the better qb. I also thought both Goff and Allen outplayed Herbert this year.
I agree with people not putting him in the top 3 right now.
For all the people who responded to me that disagree with my above post. I'm going to respond to you first and then to everyone.
Going off of memory, I think Herbert played 5 games total this year with both Williams and Allen in the lineup. He also lost his LT and best OL I think week 1 or 2, in Rashawn Slater.
I know, I know, now you're going to tell me about DJ's lack of weapons and OL. I've never said that doesn't matter. It does. But by some metrics, his OL was worse than the Giants this year. They were both relatively bad, but Herbert's was bad all year. Jones was really bad for a 4-6 week stretch in the middle of the season, then, IMO, ascended back to mediocre once Neal and Bredeson came back. Yes, even with Neal's struggles, he's better than Phillips and Peart. I realize OL comparisons have a level of subjectivity to it, but even if I concede that they were equally bad, it doesn't matter to the thesis, that Herbert is far and away a better QB than Jones.
But there is further context on Herbert. He fractured rib cartilage in week 2, which is a 4 to 6 week injury that he played through, that's a significant portion of the games.
And, despite all these setbacks, he threw for over 4700 yards, 25-10 TD-INT, and over 68% pass completion.
Taking both players rushing production together, Herbert accounted for about a 1,000 more yards of offense and 3 more TDs.
But finally, and MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, is my final point. BBI has a problem with making broad conclusions based on one season, the most recent season, rather than the larger body of work. This is not good reasoning or logic.
People talk about players regressing. Often times, particularly players that are still young and in their athletic primes, there are on-field reasons for statistical regression that have little to nothing to do with the player's ability or talent. As was the case with Herbert for the reasons stated above. But if you look at the careers comparatively, not just the most recent season (in which Herbert was undoubtedly more productive than Jones), Herbert has already shown he is capable of MVP-level type of production, and he's done so for much of the time having a below-average OL, mind you.
Herbert is a QB that just concluded his 3rd professional season. In his FIRST two seasons, Herbert amassed over 9,300 passing yards and 69 passing TDs. Taken with rushing totals, Herbert has accounted for 9,886 yards and 77 TDs in his FIRST TWO SEASONS. In 2021, Herbert passed for more than 5,000 yards and 38 TDs, running for 300 yards and 3 TDs more.
So yes, Herbert is a BBI IQ test, and if you think DJ is at all close to Herbert, you DID fail. The next time that DJ accounts for 75% of the TDs that Herbert did in 2021, that will be his first.
If Jones duplicated what Herbert did AS A ROOKIE, it would be a career year for him.
So please, compare DJ's best season in 4 years to Herbert's worst season in 3, a season in which Herbert was the more productive player, and tell me how DJ should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Justin Herbert. Do better, be better than this. Just try to be a little objective and think before you post. FFS.
Fact.
You cannot make this stuff up.
Dan Marino or Joe Montana?
Jones was better than Herbrt this year. He took a less talented to the playoffs. When he got there, he put the team on his back. Herbert folded in the second half.
Couldn't hold a 27 point lead.
Clearly greatness.
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In comment 16020747 OBJ_AllDay said:
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In comment 16020728 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16020608 Gogiantsgo said:
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When the contract numbers aren't going to materialize as you think, that is a factor in assessing your evaluation. There is no way he is taking ANYTHING below the franchise tag. So the floor is 32.4. And it will likely be a lot higher because the giants REALLY don't want to franchise tag him. That would all count toward this year's cap. They would much rather pay more and backload when cap numbers increase in the future. So your premise here is flawed.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Herbert is not a surefire yes. He gets way too much credit on here. He might have really good arm strength, but there are other factors to being a good qb. He didn't have a great year this past year. Anybody who considers him elite is just swallowing the media hype.
Herbert is a BBI football IQ test. You failed.
Herbert is better but he went about half of his games or more throwing 1 td or less on a team with Mike Williams, Kennan Allen and Austin Eckler and ended his season with 25 tds and 10 picks. Lets not act like he lit the league on fire.
Moving forward I think Lawrence will be the better qb. I also thought both Goff and Allen outplayed Herbert this year.
I agree with people not putting him in the top 3 right now.
For all the people who responded to me that disagree with my above post. I'm going to respond to you first and then to everyone.
Going off of memory, I think Herbert played 5 games total this year with both Williams and Allen in the lineup. He also lost his LT and best OL I think week 1 or 2, in Rashawn Slater.
I know, I know, now you're going to tell me about DJ's lack of weapons and OL. I've never said that doesn't matter. It does. But by some metrics, his OL was worse than the Giants this year. They were both relatively bad, but Herbert's was bad all year. Jones was really bad for a 4-6 week stretch in the middle of the season, then, IMO, ascended back to mediocre once Neal and Bredeson came back. Yes, even with Neal's struggles, he's better than Phillips and Peart. I realize OL comparisons have a level of subjectivity to it, but even if I concede that they were equally bad, it doesn't matter to the thesis, that Herbert is far and away a better QB than Jones.
But there is further context on Herbert. He fractured rib cartilage in week 2, which is a 4 to 6 week injury that he played through, that's a significant portion of the games.
And, despite all these setbacks, he threw for over 4700 yards, 25-10 TD-INT, and over 68% pass completion.
Taking both players rushing production together, Herbert accounted for about a 1,000 more yards of offense and 3 more TDs.
But finally, and MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, is my final point. BBI has a problem with making broad conclusions based on one season, the most recent season, rather than the larger body of work. This is not good reasoning or logic.
People talk about players regressing. Often times, particularly players that are still young and in their athletic primes, there are on-field reasons for statistical regression that have little to nothing to do with the player's ability or talent. As was the case with Herbert for the reasons stated above. But if you look at the careers comparatively, not just the most recent season (in which Herbert was undoubtedly more productive than Jones), Herbert has already shown he is capable of MVP-level type of production, and he's done so for much of the time having a below-average OL, mind you.
Herbert is a QB that just concluded his 3rd professional season. In his FIRST two seasons, Herbert amassed over 9,300 passing yards and 69 passing TDs. Taken with rushing totals, Herbert has accounted for 9,886 yards and 77 TDs in his FIRST TWO SEASONS. In 2021, Herbert passed for more than 5,000 yards and 38 TDs, running for 300 yards and 3 TDs more.
So yes, Herbert is a BBI IQ test, and if you think DJ is at all close to Herbert, you DID fail. The next time that DJ accounts for 75% of the TDs that Herbert did in 2021, that will be his first.
If Jones duplicated what Herbert did AS A ROOKIE, it would be a career year for him.
So please, compare DJ's best season in 4 years to Herbert's worst season in 3, a season in which Herbert was the more productive player, and tell me how DJ should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Justin Herbert. Do better, be better than this. Just try to be a little objective and think before you post. FFS.
It isn't an IQ test. It is subjective. Whoever thinks this in an IQ test just proclaimed their own ignorance to BBI.
Fact.
You cannot make this stuff up.
Dan Marino or Joe Montana?
Jones was better than Herbrt this year. He took a less talented to the playoffs. When he got there, he put the team on his back. Herbert folded in the second half.
Couldn't hold a 27 point lead.
Clearly greatness.
Wow, when you distill it down to one game, you're on shaky footing. We're not going to talk about the Eagles' game I guess.
Back to the Chargers-Jaguars game, they put up 30 points. They lost, but consider that in the opening stanza of the 4th quarter, the Chargers went on a 7-minute drive, and Dicker missed a 40-yard FG attempt when they had a 10-point lead. Staley played for the FG there, too. Then Lawrence had to get a score, a 2-point conversion, and then the game-winning FG.
In the totality of their careers, it is not a subjective argument. Herbert passed for the 2nd most yards in the NFL this year, and didn't even mention he played some part of the season on a torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder, too, which he just underwent surgery for to repair.
We're talking about Jones' 4th year, he won a playoff game. Herbert hasn't even played his 4th year yet. Big deal. They are objectively not close, this playoff game argument against a bottom-5 defense is a flimsy counter.
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And the cap is going to be $224.8M.
When do I get to take my victory lap for the 4y/$135M (against a $225M cap) that I've been predicting for months? Can any victory lap experts chime in here? Ryan, any advice on when to take my victory lap? Do I have to wait for my prediction to come true, or can I start now for already having the correct framework in place?
I'm never 100% sure how the victory laps work since "victory" or even "correctness" is rarely a requirement.
Put your swimmies on and take that victory lap.
Oh, come on - I can swim just fine without swimmies!
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In comment 16020795 Producer said:
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In comment 16020759 JerseyCityJoe said:
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Straight up. I take Jones.
If you polled every football person, players, coaches, front office, etc., 99.9% would take Herbert. Maybe 100%.
You're just a homer. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Since 99.9% of the posts you have made that contain the word Jones have been wrong (well maybe a 100%) I am going to assume you are wrong here. You're just a hater. You decide whether there is something wrong with that.
I don't hate Jones. I'm in the land of reality. Find me any QB power ranking anywhere on the interwebs (and there are dozens) that place Jones ahead of Herbert. I bet I can find 6 that show Herbert>Jones in ten minutes.
Producer if you don't hate Jones (as a player) I fear you suffer from meglomania.