Appears to be the strength of the class, alongside CB. Daniel Jeremiah has 6 in his top 50 - including Kincaid at 9, and Mayer/Washington in his top 25
A very common trend among playoff teams this year is having good TE’s that are reliable targets over the middle.
I like Kincaid and Mayer alot. Good chance 1 makes it to 25 and would be BPA.
Bellinger showed flashes, but IMO I don’t see a guy who will ever be an elite receiving option. He’s very limited in the routes he can run.
Adding a top TE would not only upgrade the weapons, it would also give DJ a potential go-to guy. The value at TE looks much better than WR in this draft class.
Then Bellinger can play more of a TE2/H-back role, where I believe he’s better suited. The 2 things he does best are blocking and catching passes in the flat. A guy like Mayer/Kincaid who can better attack the middle of the field and seam would complement Bellinger well.
Add more speed to the WR group (day 2 pick, low cost FA like Chark) and the offense would look much better.
- Kelce (3rd round)
- Kittle (5th round)
- Andrews (3rd round)
- Waller (6th round)
- Schultz (4th round)
Also has an innate feel for finding soft spots I. The zone.
He didn’t run many routes in college but that’s just experience
- Kelce (3rd round)
- Kittle (5th round)
- Andrews (3rd round)
- Waller (6th round)
- Schultz (4th round)
100% agree. I have posted this for years. The other thing is to go back like 10-12 years to look at who was drafted in the first. It's ugly.
Also has an innate feel for finding soft spots I. The zone.
He didn’t run many routes in college but that’s just experience
TEs really take years to hit their upside. It's rare for a rookie to come in and produce at a high level. I like Bellinger and where he is headed.
Also has an innate feel for finding soft spots I. The zone.
He didn’t run many routes in college but that’s just experience
I have no issue playing two TEs quiet a bit
so i can see a fit for sure especially if one is a plus blocker
Also has an innate feel for finding soft spots I. The zone.
He didn’t run many routes in college but that’s just experience
I agree with these points on Bellinger + looking at the serious needs at lb, wr and cb, I don't see drafting a te that early.
The LB from Clemson Trenton Simpson would be a great pick at 25.. he likely will be there and will help right away.
Bellinger was a top rated pff TE before the injury.No reason to think he cannot be there again soon...
u need to balance a bit of both
Mayer from ND looks like a better pick than what you see mocked at WR in that area of the draft.
Brenton Strange Penn State
https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/brenton-strange-695319d8-2c77-471e-af20-af282b37944f/ - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Mayer from ND looks like a better pick than what you see mocked at WR in that area of the draft.
No offense but I hate takes like this. Who cares if the 3rd or 4th WR was taken over the top TE. Seriously, go back and look at all the TEs drafted in the first iver the last 10 years or so. Also, how do you know that TE is a big part of our offense? Teams are always in 3 WR sets nowadays. You don't draft positions. You draft players. If the 7th best WR is a better fit than the top TE available then you take the WR.
We need bridge TE to hold us over.
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I'd rather Schoen take the top 1 or 2 TE available at 25 than the 3rd or 4th best WR. This team needs offensive weapons and TE's are a big part of that.
Mayer from ND looks like a better pick than what you see mocked at WR in that area of the draft.
No offense but I hate takes like this. Who cares if the 3rd or 4th WR was taken over the top TE. Seriously, go back and look at all the TEs drafted in the first iver the last 10 years or so. Also, how do you know that TE is a big part of our offense? Teams are always in 3 WR sets nowadays. You don't draft positions. You draft players. If the 7th best WR is a better fit than the top TE available then you take the WR.
Why would I take offense. Its an opinion, just like your comment is just that as well. My point was TE's are typically good weapons to have. I do not claim to know Daboll's specific system by any means. Lastly, your opinion regarding taking a far lesser WR over a top TE is a joke and makes zero sense.
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
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In comment 16021195 dannyman3131 said:
Quote:
I'd rather Schoen take the top 1 or 2 TE available at 25 than the 3rd or 4th best WR. This team needs offensive weapons and TE's are a big part of that.
Mayer from ND looks like a better pick than what you see mocked at WR in that area of the draft.
No offense but I hate takes like this. Who cares if the 3rd or 4th WR was taken over the top TE. Seriously, go back and look at all the TEs drafted in the first iver the last 10 years or so. Also, how do you know that TE is a big part of our offense? Teams are always in 3 WR sets nowadays. You don't draft positions. You draft players. If the 7th best WR is a better fit than the top TE available then you take the WR.
Why would I take offense. Its an opinion, just like your comment is just that as well. My point was TE's are typically good weapons to have. I do not claim to know Daboll's specific system by any means. Lastly, your opinion regarding taking a far lesser WR over a top TE is a joke and makes zero sense.
I never said lesser WRs over a better TE. Where a player ranks in their group is irrelevant to where they rank overall.
Correct. Him and Hernandez were in the same draft.
He may be better than Mayer imv
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
There are actually a lot of really good tight ends on this list.
Quote:
Did these guys really help their teams win?
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
There are actually a lot of really good tight ends on this list.
Who are these really good TEs?
Pitts was a disappointment this year. Fant is okay at best and was a throw in for Wilson. Hockenson is good but Detroit unloaded him. Hurst was a huge disappointment. Njoku hasn't been good. He has shown glimpses but that is it. Engram was a fuckin bum here but had a resurgence this year although he still had his issues. Howard was a huge bust. Ebron was brutal and if you look at the people drafted after him you will throw up. Eifert was okay but suffered a bad injury. Gresham was basically a number 2 TE. Pettigrew was okay. Keller sucked. Olsen was a very good TE but how many years ago was that? Chicago drafted him and traded him when Martz was there. It is kind of pointless going back further as the game is so different.
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In comment 16021230 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Did these guys really help their teams win?
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
There are actually a lot of really good tight ends on this list.
Who are these really good TEs?
Pitts was a disappointment this year. Fant is okay at best and was a throw in for Wilson. Hockenson is good but Detroit unloaded him. Hurst was a huge disappointment. Njoku hasn't been good. He has shown glimpses but that is it. Engram was a fuckin bum here but had a resurgence this year although he still had his issues. Howard was a huge bust. Ebron was brutal and if you look at the people drafted after him you will throw up. Eifert was okay but suffered a bad injury. Gresham was basically a number 2 TE. Pettigrew was okay. Keller sucked. Olsen was a very good TE but how many years ago was that? Chicago drafted him and traded him when Martz was there. It is kind of pointless going back further as the game is so different.
Kelce, Kittle, Andrews, etc aren't 1st round picks and are really talented, but a lot of their success can be attributed to the offenses they are in. In the same way, you can say a lack of success of these 1st rounders can be attributed to the offenses they are in. Pitts was fantastic his rookie season and is now in QB hell, so his stats were down this year. Much in the same way, Engram was great his rookie season and then dealt with a train wreck of this team for years. Njoku had a pretty solid year this year, but has spent a career with Mayfield at QB.
Hockenson is a total stud. You can't dismiss him because he was traded.
Fant is questionable, and Howard and Ebron are busts.
Almost all of these picks are having long careers as starters. Thats what I'd call a good tight end. Look at how much better they are than Bellinger and how much potential they had immediately after being drafted. I'm not saying you have to spend a 1st on a TE, but theres a clear difference between these guys getting selected in the 1st compared to later rounds.
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
You can make the same list for Corners (especially outside of the top 10) and it would be just as bad.
Mayer might actually be one of the safest picks in the draft - a guy who will start for a decade. Whether he is a more athletic Heath Miller or the next George Kittle is TBD, but I know for a fact he WOULD make this team better in 2023 and beyond.
Quote:
In comment 16021336 monstercoo said:
Quote:
In comment 16021230 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Did these guys really help their teams win?
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
There are actually a lot of really good tight ends on this list.
Who are these really good TEs?
Pitts was a disappointment this year. Fant is okay at best and was a throw in for Wilson. Hockenson is good but Detroit unloaded him. Hurst was a huge disappointment. Njoku hasn't been good. He has shown glimpses but that is it. Engram was a fuckin bum here but had a resurgence this year although he still had his issues. Howard was a huge bust. Ebron was brutal and if you look at the people drafted after him you will throw up. Eifert was okay but suffered a bad injury. Gresham was basically a number 2 TE. Pettigrew was okay. Keller sucked. Olsen was a very good TE but how many years ago was that? Chicago drafted him and traded him when Martz was there. It is kind of pointless going back further as the game is so different.
Kelce, Kittle, Andrews, etc aren't 1st round picks and are really talented, but a lot of their success can be attributed to the offenses they are in. In the same way, you can say a lack of success of these 1st rounders can be attributed to the offenses they are in. Pitts was fantastic his rookie season and is now in QB hell, so his stats were down this year. Much in the same way, Engram was great his rookie season and then dealt with a train wreck of this team for years. Njoku had a pretty solid year this year, but has spent a career with Mayfield at QB.
Hockenson is a total stud. You can't dismiss him because he was traded.
Fant is questionable, and Howard and Ebron are busts.
Almost all of these picks are having long careers as starters. Thats what I'd call a good tight end. Look at how much better they are than Bellinger and how much potential they had immediately after being drafted. I'm not saying you have to spend a 1st on a TE, but theres a clear difference between these guys getting selected in the 1st compared to later rounds.
You are looking at this all wrong. It isn't QB about guys staying in the NFL. Are these guys helping their teams win. The answer is no. It isn't a premium position. It is that simple. Go back and look at whonwas drafted when these players were drafted.
OJ Howard has one, humorously enough, in a season where he went on injured reserve early in the season.
It isn’t just that TE isn’t a premium position, it also seems to be one that’s difficult to scout, judging from where some of the best TEs are taken.
Quote:
Did these guys really help their teams win?
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
You can make the same list for Corners (especially outside of the top 10) and it would be just as bad.
Mayer might actually be one of the safest picks in the draft - a guy who will start for a decade. Whether he is a more athletic Heath Miller or the next George Kittle is TBD, but I know for a fact he WOULD make this team better in 2023 and beyond.
Not really. This isn't about busts. This is about impact players. Corners have 100% helped their teams win. There is a reason corners get paid more than TEs.
This is supposedly a deep draft at the position, so the best way to take advantage of that is to hit the sweet spot in Rounds 3-5. No issue with the Giants creating competition or depth for Bellinger in a deep TE draft but seems foolish to hit it early when there will assuredly be higher upside bets with less positional variance early.
Sounds like a good plan. Just need to find a replacement for Neal.
Quote:
In comment 16021356 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 16021336 monstercoo said:
Quote:
In comment 16021230 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Did these guys really help their teams win?
2021: Pitts (4)
2019: Fant (20)
2019: Hockenson (8)
2018: Hurst (25)
2017: Njoku (29)
2017: Engram (23)
2017: Howard (19)
2014: Ebron (14)
2013: Eifert (21)
2010: Gresham (21)
2009: Pettigrew (20)
2008: Keller (30)
2007: Olsen (31)
2006: Lewis (28)
2006: Davis (6)
2005: Miller (30)
2004: Watson (32)
2004: Winslow (6)
2003: Clark (24)
This is 20 years worth of premium picks spent on a non-premium position. When Schoen talks about positional value, this is what he is talking about. TEs are just not good investments in the first. There are a couple of names on the list like Hockenson who have been good but it just isn't a premium position that leads to wins. Even Olsen seemed to have more of an impact in Carolina than Chicago. There are some solid players there but nobody can convince me all these teams wouldn't have picked someone else had they had the chance at a redo.
There are actually a lot of really good tight ends on this list.
Who are these really good TEs?
Pitts was a disappointment this year. Fant is okay at best and was a throw in for Wilson. Hockenson is good but Detroit unloaded him. Hurst was a huge disappointment. Njoku hasn't been good. He has shown glimpses but that is it. Engram was a fuckin bum here but had a resurgence this year although he still had his issues. Howard was a huge bust. Ebron was brutal and if you look at the people drafted after him you will throw up. Eifert was okay but suffered a bad injury. Gresham was basically a number 2 TE. Pettigrew was okay. Keller sucked. Olsen was a very good TE but how many years ago was that? Chicago drafted him and traded him when Martz was there. It is kind of pointless going back further as the game is so different.
Kelce, Kittle, Andrews, etc aren't 1st round picks and are really talented, but a lot of their success can be attributed to the offenses they are in. In the same way, you can say a lack of success of these 1st rounders can be attributed to the offenses they are in. Pitts was fantastic his rookie season and is now in QB hell, so his stats were down this year. Much in the same way, Engram was great his rookie season and then dealt with a train wreck of this team for years. Njoku had a pretty solid year this year, but has spent a career with Mayfield at QB.
Hockenson is a total stud. You can't dismiss him because he was traded.
Fant is questionable, and Howard and Ebron are busts.
Almost all of these picks are having long careers as starters. Thats what I'd call a good tight end. Look at how much better they are than Bellinger and how much potential they had immediately after being drafted. I'm not saying you have to spend a 1st on a TE, but theres a clear difference between these guys getting selected in the 1st compared to later rounds.
You are looking at this all wrong. It isn't QB about guys staying in the NFL. Are these guys helping their teams win. The answer is no. It isn't a premium position. It is that simple. Go back and look at whonwas drafted when these players were drafted.
I agree with your point - TEs aren't as valuable other positions.
All I'm saying is that if you need to draft a TE (you don't have to draft BPA), the ones being drafted in the 1st round have almost been guaranteed to have a good/productive/long career.