I remember thinking that could be a problem when we were looking at signing him...he dribbles alot and shoots alot fpr a PG
Don't get me wrong I love him but...its am issue
In comment 16021253 nygiants16 said:
[quote] expect Lebron to shoot a ton of free throws [/quote
How Scott Foster still is an NBA official is one of life's greatest mysteries, up there with 'Is there an afterlife?' & 'What wouldn't Meat Loaf do for love?'
have to force the shot when the Big is right there? if its not there pull it out or kick it, you force it up, miss and then the other team is out in transition..
New big contract and wants to prove himself an All Star, he has stated.
I really root for RJB (I rooted for his father on St John's) but right now he's somewhat of a head case IMO. It would be best for him to go with the second team and work his way back up. Probably won't happen - absent a trade - for PR reasons but that's my basketball analysis FWIW.
LOL, I haven't watched an NBA game since the Knicks
New big contract and wants to prove himself an All Star, he has stated.
I really root for RJB (I rooted for his father on St John's) but right now he's somewhat of a head case IMO. It would be best for him to go with the second team and work his way back up. Probably won't happen - absent a trade - for PR reasons but that's my basketball analysis FWIW.
I think you hit it on the head...he is putting to much pressure on himself
Can’t be bothered to contest Lebron with a minute left in a three-point game. Game was lost on the previous possession anyway - can anyone ever step up and make a fucking shot?
Can’t be bothered to contest Lebron with a minute left in a three-point game. Game was lost on the previous possession anyway - can anyone ever step up and make a fucking shot?
.. I’d list them all but it’s everyone and everything. First and foremost please have Reggie miller fired into the sun.
I’m just so happy to know that every team and player saves their very best for msg and the Knicks. For some reason, every player embarks on a personal crusade the second they walk into that place.
I give up. Now go rest another week Davis and Lebron you fucking cunts.
How the fuck can Randal be so great game in game out and yet be so fucking lost in the last seconds of a game. Why no Brunson there? Are we just not allowed to ever have a buzzer fucking beater ever???? Ever????? No I guess not because fuck off. Just stupid.
How the fuck can Randal be so great game in game out and yet be so fucking lost in the last seconds of a game. Why no Brunson there? Are we just not allowed to ever have a buzzer fucking beater ever???? Ever????? No I guess not because fuck off. Just stupid.
Its why they are not a better team, you have 2 all star caliber players, you should be better than 2 games over 500..
Coaching and Randle not being a clutch player, hurts this team
RE: Randle having the ball on the final possession of regulation
The defense leaves a wide open three point shooter seemingly every play.
There are 5 teams that are 10 games under .500 or worse. Those are the only teams with worse home records than the Knicks. Shit is ridiculous.
I think certain players do in certain situations, Randles brain shuts off during crunch time, Rj has terrible IQ
I think Quickley, Brunson, Grimes are very smart players..
Giving up the 3, is Thibs scheme, he wants to protect the paint first and then run out to shooters, its why he never goes small, which is ridiculous in todays NBA
Grateful for that at this point, as I’ve seen all I really need to see. Brunson is excellent, Grimes and Quickley are solid players worth keeping, Randle can’t be trusted despite his numbers, and RJ isn’t gonna live up to his draft status.
Hopefully Leon earns some of that fat contract he never deserved to begin with.
Grateful for that at this point, as I’ve seen all I really need to see. Brunson is excellent, Grimes and Quickley are solid players worth keeping, Randle can’t be trusted despite his numbers, and RJ isn’t gonna live up to his draft status.
Hopefully Leon earns some of that fat contract he never deserved to begin with.
Leon better do something at the deadline, he cant just sit on his hands over and over again, i know a star is not available but do something, team clearly needs another wing
But the offense as constructed revolving around him is not going to cut it. His skill set should allow him to be good with less on-balll duties, that’s what we need to see. Ball movement needs to be emphasized.
I noticed he was visibly angry when he got pulled in the fourth.
I think if they can pull off a trade for OG, it would be best for him to come off the bench, its clear he doesnt fit with the starters and off the bench, him and IQ can just go out and score..
I noticed he was visibly angry when he got pulled in the fourth.
I think if they can pull off a trade for OG, it would be best for him to come off the bench, its clear he doesnt fit with the starters and off the bench, him and IQ can just go out and score..
To get them over the hump.
They are only 3 games away from not making the playoffs.
Our unprotected this year could easily be a lottery pick. I hate to say it but trade Rose, Fournier, and Cam and hold tight.
OG doesn't make them a guaranteed playoff team and giving away assets for a role player doesn't do it for me.
To get them over the hump.
They are only 3 games away from not making the playoffs.
Our unprotected this year could easily be a lottery pick. I hate to say it but trade Rose, Fournier, and Cam and hold tight.
OG doesn't make them a guaranteed playoff team and giving away assets for a role player doesn't do it for me.
OG would 100% help this team, fills a huge need..
There is nothing that will amke them a contender that i agree with
I noticed he was visibly angry when he got pulled in the fourth.
I wouldn't say ducked. He told them directly: "I got nothing to say." I'd call that a wise choice.
Thibs has been pulling RJ around the six minute mark of the fourth for a while now. Usually puts him back with less than two minutes; tonight he didn't.
RJ was 4-5 from the field in the second half; 3-3 in the first five minutes of the 4Q before he was pulled.
RJ has the contract. I suspect he will outlast Thibs.
But this is multiple times now that he just doesn't play defense in the 4th quarter leading to losses on top of the careless ball handling in the 4th as well. This is just unacceptable. I would trade him. Yes, people will say I am crazy but we've done this before. The year we made the playoffs Insaid we should trade him. Then he went on to have a horrible year and people wanted him gone. I don't believe in trading peoppe when their value is low so I always seem to be against the grain when it comes to keeping or trading him. His value is pretty much at his highest value.
RE: We all know that Randle has had a fantastic year
But this is multiple times now that he just doesn't play defense in the 4th quarter leading to losses on top of the careless ball handling in the 4th as well. This is just unacceptable. I would trade him. Yes, people will say I am crazy but we've done this before. The year we made the playoffs Insaid we should trade him. Then he went on to have a horrible year and people wanted him gone. I don't believe in trading peoppe when their value is low so I always seem to be against the grain when it comes to keeping or trading him. His value is pretty much at his highest value.
I dont think the Knicks will because they want to make the playoffs, but cant say you are wrong, you are most likely right.
Injust dont know what team out there would be willing to trade 2 1sts for him
if somwthing makes sense. And I am done with Thibs. I am not down on the front office like you. I don't want them forcing a move just to make a move. But they can't watch the same product for 3 years and think this is going to get better. We deserve to see what another coach can do with these players. We shouldn't be making a trade to appease Thibs.
if somwthing makes sense. And I am done with Thibs. I am not down on the front office like you. I don't want them forcing a move just to make a move. But they can't watch the same product for 3 years and think this is going to get better. We deserve to see what another coach can do with these players. We shouldn't be making a trade to appease Thibs.
I am not down on the front office, i just think the time for sitting on their hands is over.
They have built a good team but now is the time to capitilize, you add a piece at the deadline and then you cna go star hunting and be a contender next year
Either Randle didn’t see him or he wanted to play hero ball.
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
I’m glad I don’t watch this team every game. They just stand around playing iso ball. I guess that is the NBA these days.
Not a fan of Thibs…
Hi hum Knicks lose a close home game to a below .500 team
Either Randle didn’t see him or he wanted to play hero ball.
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
I’m glad I don’t watch this team every game. They just stand around playing iso ball. I guess that is the NBA these days.
Not a fan of Thibs…
Either Randle didn’t see him or he wanted to play hero ball.
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
I’m glad I don’t watch this team every game. They just stand around playing iso ball. I guess that is the NBA these days.
Not a fan of Thibs…
Rick, the sad thing is the ball movement was actually really good last night so you don't want to see more games. Lol.
I was laughing hysterically after the TO. I thought to myself, "Thibs must know by now not to give Randle the ball in the clutch." Nope.
Timeout play: "Randle Iso. So what's everyone doing after the game?"
Not sure if you saw my post but I texted it before it happened. Like clockwork with this asshole.
This team is not winning a damn thing with Thibs at the helm. And this is Brunson's team, not Randle's. If Randle has a problem with that, he can fuck off. Trade his ass. Randle would actually net a nice haul given his season, but I doubt Lil' Jimmy would give the FO the green light to trade him. It's a shame. They put such a premium on making the playoffs, but we simply don't have the guns or the coach to make a long run. I'd rather trade Randle by the Deadline and build around Brunson than make the Playoffs as the sixth seed or lower and get eliminated in the first round. Then again, I don't trust Leon Rose on trades.
And speaking of which, they need to move on from Leon, WWW, and the rest of the charlatans. Go all in on trying to pry Masai Ujiri away from Toronto.
After two trade deadlines with this group, I've got no reason to buy
where I fault Thibs is how he enabled Randle's selfish and lazy play last season. While we are seeing an improved Randle this season, a lot of those bad habits still seep their way into his game.
RE: We all know that Randle has had a fantastic year
But this is multiple times now that he just doesn't play defense in the 4th quarter leading to losses on top of the careless ball handling in the 4th as well. This is just unacceptable. I would trade him. Yes, people will say I am crazy but we've done this before. The year we made the playoffs Insaid we should trade him. Then he went on to have a horrible year and people wanted him gone. I don't believe in trading peoppe when their value is low so I always seem to be against the grain when it comes to keeping or trading him. His value is pretty much at his highest value.
I agree with you, and I hate to say it. Randle is a low IQ player that's gaining a losing reputation. I would sell high on him if I could.
First of all, why was Brunson inbounding the ball there? You want the ball in his hands there, and if they surround him, youve got Randle or Quickley who could have at leat jad a better final shot than Randle tried there. he had no chance. Once it went to OT, the end was inevitable
First of all, why was Brunson inbounding the ball there? You want the ball in his hands there, and if they surround him, youve got Randle or Quickley who could have at leat jad a better final shot than Randle tried there.
Haven't you heard the saying that the guy who in-bounds is the most dangerous?
The idea of the play is that the defenders surround the guy Brunson in-bounds it to, and then that guy throws it back to Brunson, who is wide open.
And, as Rick in Dallas points out is his post above, that is exactly what happened. Except Randle dribbled into the trap instead of passing it back to Brunson.
He built his value back from negative equity to positive equity. In this market, I'd guess you can get multiple picks for Randle right now. They won't, making the playoffs is too important to them. Randle will get abused under the spotlight again and he will have negative equity again in the offseason.
that Randle didn't fuck up. How you don't even bother to get a shot up before the end of regulation is absurd. But that's the play that they drew up? Come on.
Also, I wonder if our players were tired. Wonder if anything could have been done to mitigate those tired legs at the end of regulation where IQ had played 21 straight minutes. Probably not.
Rj like Randle was the one player who never truly gets punished.
If you are willing to yank rj for being bad. Thibs has to now hold Randle accountable.
There is plenty of times he’s as bad as rj but thibs is scared of upsetting Randle
I understand it was drawn up to have multiple options and Randle screwed it up.
But still that ball needs to be in Brunson's hands from the start and let him take the last shot. You can't trust Randle there. IQ or someone else could have easily inbounded.
Bad look for RJ last night. Don't go pouting on the bench when you can't cover Russell Westbook.
Bad outcome but overall a really fun entertaining game. Has Lebron ever had a bad game at MSG?
He has an incredibly low bball IQ. He quits on plays too often, chokes down the stretch(whats his FT% in close games?) and has a terrible "feel" for the game.
How the fuck can Randal be so great game in game out and yet be so fucking lost in the last seconds of a game. Why no Brunson there? Are we just not allowed to ever have a buzzer fucking beater ever???? Ever????? No I guess not because fuck off. Just stupid.
Its why they are not a better team, you have 2 all star caliber players, you should be better than 2 games over 500..
Coaching and Randle not being a clutch player, hurts this team
Brandon Tierney
@BrandonTierney
The Knicks are competitive. They play hard. Have some real nice pieces. But where is the bridge to becoming championship viable? Simply do not see one.
Especially since Barrett remains so inconsistent. A treadmill to nowhere, seemingly.
Brandon Tierney
@BrandonTierney
The Knicks are competitive. They play hard. Have some real nice pieces. But where is the bridge to becoming championship viable? Simply do not see one.
Especially since Barrett remains so inconsistent. A treadmill to nowhere, seemingly.
If he doesnt see the bridge than he is a moron, they have a ton of draft capital to make a trade for a star...
is getting extremely lucky in the draft(little chance) or a mega star demands NY(also little chance). For that reason, they'd be best suited to SELL. Trade Randle, trade RJ, trade Mitch. Trade anyone with value except Brunson, Grimes, Obi and quickley. That's what they should do, but making the playoffs is too important to them.
Agree because of the assets. Leon Rose needs to be aggressive though. He’s had reluctance in making that big splash. Brunson was fantastic but was easy since he wanted to be here.
How the fuck can Randal be so great game in game out and yet be so fucking lost in the last seconds of a game. Why no Brunson there? Are we just not allowed to ever have a buzzer fucking beater ever???? Ever????? No I guess not because fuck off. Just stupid.
Coaching and Randle not being a clutch player, hurts this team
This x 1000. Randle is simply not clutch and we already know he's a headcase. Trade him now while you can get great value for him.
And Thibs is just awful. Rides his starters players into the ground while alienating others, doesn't adjust, no creativity, worst of all, he can't close. He's basically the coach version of Randle.
is getting extremely lucky in the draft(little chance) or a mega star demands NY(also little chance). For that reason, they'd be best suited to SELL. Trade Randle, trade RJ, trade Mitch. Trade anyone with value except Brunson, Grimes, Obi and quickley. That's what they should do, but making the playoffs is too important to them.
There is value to making the playoffs. Stars don’t demand to come to shitty teams. Brunson didn’t sign here to bottom out.
is getting extremely lucky in the draft(little chance) or a mega star demands NY(also little chance). For that reason, they'd be best suited to SELL. Trade Randle, trade RJ, trade Mitch. Trade anyone with value except Brunson, Grimes, Obi and quickley. That's what they should do, but making the playoffs is too important to them.
They are also one of the youngest teams in the NBA
and becoming a desirable location. I understand that, but I fear that both Randle and RJ will lose value as time goes on. Randle will probably fold in the playoffs again and we will be stuck with him. I just feel like there is MORE value to trading these guys for combinations of young players and picks.
Agree because of the assets. Leon Rose needs to be aggressive though. He’s had reluctance in making that big splash. Brunson was fantastic but was easy since he wanted to be here.
That i agree with 100%, Rose has to shit or move out of the way for someone that will
the ball does not move. it makes it worse for the defense on low ball movement misses.
Brunson looks to be a great signing but he is a #2- Randle is fine if you have a better center. they need high IQ shooters on the wing- they lack that-
but the biggest problem is the ball doesnt move.
the biggest positive is brunson is young and excellent. I dont really value IQ. I value grimes though not in untouchable zone. Obi has now been wasted.
Randle hating is a function of bad roster construction and offensive scheme as a result-
and becoming a desirable location. I understand that, but I fear that both Randle and RJ will lose value as time goes on. Randle will probably fold in the playoffs again and we will be stuck with him. I just feel like there is MORE value to trading these guys for combinations of young players and picks.
But Randle was bad defensively in the 4th and completely ball dominant in OT, with bad shot selection and turnovers.
Randle needs to go while he is on the up swing
Funny part is Lebron gave up the ball to Davis at the end of the game for the last second shot Randle should pay attention.
It's not low IQ Randle suffers from it's stats over wins and being the hero.
It's all about Randle.
Knicks will never be a good "team" with Randle
Actually, come to think of it, I'd rather keep Randle and Ujiri trade
is Thibs, this roster is clearly better than 2 games over 500, is it clunky in spots? yes, is there a need for another wing or 2? yes but this team should be better than 2 games over..
The biggest problem is Thibs and his stibborness. You cant always coach exactly your way, you have to adjust to your roster..
Thibs would rather lose his way than win another way, there is to much evidence of this to say otherwise
But Randle was bad defensively in the 4th and completely ball dominant in OT, with bad shot selection and turnovers.
Randle needs to go while he is on the up swing
Funny part is Lebron gave up the ball to Davis at the end of the game for the last second shot Randle should pay attention.
It's not low IQ Randle suffers from it's stats over wins and being the hero.
It's all about Randle.
Knicks will never be a good "team" with Randle
Didnt he give up the ball numerous times against Brooklyn and Grimes missed the shot?
He did it against the Celtics as well, finding the open man..
Funny his pass out against Boston led to Rj's wide open 3..
You want to call him unclutch, dumb in the final moments of games? fine, but syaing he doesnt want to win is not really fair, dude plays his ass off
If you can get some depth help and move off Rose, Fournier and Cam that's good enough.
Get through the year with assets intack and evaluate in the summer hopefully at that point we will have a little shake up in the front office and coaching.
This team is not going anywhere this year just let it play out.
But Randle was bad defensively in the 4th and completely ball dominant in OT, with bad shot selection and turnovers.
Randle needs to go while he is on the up swing
Funny part is Lebron gave up the ball to Davis at the end of the game for the last second shot Randle should pay attention.
It's not low IQ Randle suffers from it's stats over wins and being the hero.
It's all about Randle.
Knicks will never be a good "team" with Randle
Didnt he give up the ball numerous times against Brooklyn and Grimes missed the shot?
He did it against the Celtics as well, finding the open man..
Funny his pass out against Boston led to Rj's wide open 3..
You want to call him unclutch, dumb in the final moments of games? fine, but syaing he doesnt want to win is not really fair, dude plays his ass off
Really like closing out on Lebron's 3 last night?
Come on we watched a whole season of him being disinterest in playing, great players don't act that way. He played horrible against Brooklyn and acted like he didn't want to be there. He even said he played with no effort.
He does whatever he wants, when he wants.
Thibs refuses to go away from his guys, no matter what sort of night they are having. Randle was making some pretty questionable decisions down the stretch (again, I think a lot of that is because he had so many minutes) and Thibs refuses to play with the lineup.
Obi with 10 minutes, RJ sat down the stretch after not missing a shot in the 4th quarter.
Not to mention our sophisticated offense where we run a give and go for Brunson or throw it to Randle at the high post and let them be ball dominant for 20 seconds of a shot clock.
Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
he had at least two lousy possessions on offense. One was a turnover where he decided to try and dribble through 3 defenders. The other was when he took his time backing into his crappy fadeaway - only AD came over so he tried a difficult pass along the baseline that was deflected out of bounds giving them little time to shoot.
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
he had at least two lousy possessions on offense. One was a turnover where he decided to try and dribble through 3 defenders. The other was when he took his time backing into his crappy fadeaway - only AD came over so he tried a difficult pass along the baseline that was deflected out of bounds giving them little time to shoot.
so 2 bad possessions= him dominating the entire 4th?
and you have seen him make that pass all the time to the corner
Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
2 turnovers in 5 minutes fouled on a turnaround and went full iso on every other possession.
NY16 you can live and die with Randle he is trash.
Who said i want to live and die with him? i just said before if someone came with a good offer id trade him, but i am not going to blame him for everything wrong with this team..
and yes full iso, yet somehow only took 1 shot(which he was foiled) turned it over once on offense and the other was a travel after he got a rebound defensively..
i am sorry not everything wrong with this team is Randle
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
He did not guard Lebron all night probably not even close to half the possessions
Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
he had at least two lousy possessions on offense. One was a turnover where he decided to try and dribble through 3 defenders. The other was when he took his time backing into his crappy fadeaway - only AD came over so he tried a difficult pass along the baseline that was deflected out of bounds giving them little time to shoot.
so 2 bad possessions= him dominating the entire 4th?
and you have seen him make that pass all the time to the corner
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
He did not guard Lebron all night probably not even close to half the possessions
Who else guarded Lebron? Randle literally was subbed in and out when Lebron was to keep the matchup
but he also has a tendency to quit on plays. He does it often and it's usually at key moments in games. He gets frustrated and he gets lazy. Winners don't do that...ever.
Other than the PG position (including IQ at the backup 6th man), there isn’t one other position that we couldn’t use an upgrade at. Keep those two and build baby build.
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
He did not guard Lebron all night probably not even close to half the possessions
did you watch the game?
I can't believe you guys are killing Randle today. Barrett is the far bigger problem on this time...
Other than the PG position (including IQ at the backup 6th man), there isn’t one other position that we couldn’t use an upgrade at. Keep those two and build baby build.
Ehh i disagree, Grimes is fine at the 2, unless you are upgrading the 2 spot with a star, Grimes is fine at the 2, fits perfect next Brunson and another star..
I wouldnt give Randle away, if you get 2 first for him, sure but i wouldnt gice him away..
Quickley is obviously a keeper..
I think Mitch is with the right personnel around him..
people call Randle a loser but how many games where Rj puts up big scoring numbers do the Knicks win or the players around him play well? not very often..
But the excuse is he is only 22..
Sure he has hit big shots and i gvie him credit for that
people call Randle a loser but how many games where Rj puts up big scoring numbers do the Knicks win or the players around him play well? not very often..
But the excuse is he is only 22..
Sure he has hit big shots and i gvie him credit for that
It's not one or the other here. It's about Randle and his shitty play late in games.
Aren’t going anywhere with Thibs as HC. Just the facts
That’s been obvious for so long. The real issue is that he’s simply a poor fit for the roster as presently constructed. The Knicks young roster needs to be developed. He was able to do that in Chicago, but that was a different era of the sport. You can’t guarantee shots go in, but the offense should look more cohesive than this. They don’t have superstars, but they’ve got enough talent look better than this, especially late in games.
It’s odd that the same owner’s other team in the building was recently ONE GAME from firing a coach that led the team to the conference finals and was a Jack Adams Award finalist the prior season. (I know the teams have different expectations.) Where’s the urgency with this team? Leon Rose doesn’t talk, so what is the vision here?
From Fred Katz and also he was on Marci podcast this week which was a good listen.
Quickley should be starting over Grimes and I will keep beating that horse to death. Fred Katz in the athlete. Paid site - ( New Window )
onto bbi. I don't see people endlessly defending RJ on here. Seems like it rotates from game to game. Randle and RJ.
They should be taking calls on both, but I don't think they have the balls.
RJ has a couple of fanboys here but for the most part it seems like most of us realize he still has some major issues with his game. I'm sorta shocked Thibs may finally be coming around on noticing what the rest of us have been pointing out for months/years.
So what you don't like RJ and no matter what game it is any little mistake he makes you jump on .
So be it.
You have been trading him for 3+ years.
You have your right to hate on him and I don't mind discussing it.
From Fred Katz and also he was on Marci podcast this week which was a good listen.
Quickley should be starting over RJ and I will keep beating that horse to death.
Ny Giants - You have always been a Randle apologist, while I enjoy your thoughts, I think you overrate Randle.
He is a good player, but usually when a superstar is on the other side of the court, he plays small, because he tries too hard and hurts the team. Yesterday, was a great example. On the rare occassions, he gets hot, like the Boston game, it is like fools gold.
The team is poorly constructed with Randle/Barrett in the starting lineup, one of these has to accept a 6th man role or be traded.
Also, while Mitch is a good player, we need a better offensive threat to play with Barrett/Randle. It is why as much I hate to admit it, Porzingis is the perfect fit.
Tibs has to go, he has taken this team as far as he can, another voice needs to come in and tweak things in the rotation, playing small at times and with the offensive sets. The limited offensive center kills us at the end of games.
Obi Toppin has to play more, he has completely regressed and knows he will be pulled the minute he makes a mistake.
RE: RE: Don't bring the cesspool that is social media
onto bbi. I don't see people endlessly defending RJ on here. Seems like it rotates from game to game. Randle and RJ.
They should be taking calls on both, but I don't think they have the balls.
RJ has a couple of fanboys here but for the most part it seems like most of us realize he still has some major issues with his game. I'm sorta shocked Thibs may finally be coming around on noticing what the rest of us have been pointing out for months/years.
I have noticed Thibs seemingly trusts Quickley over Rj..
I think Rj would not be hapoy based one what hapoened last night, but i would like to see them Bring Rj off the bench and start Quick next to Brunson
I asked this earlier: Doesn't RJ have the poison pill?
Randle was terrible yesterday and choked the game away late. Turnovers, lazy defense, bad shots. You can't believe people killing Randle???
He had a bad game no doubt. But aside from one possession where he gave Lebron too much space, where was the lazy defense? He actually came up big on defense at the very end of the 4th on a great contest on a lebron 3. He also guarded Lebron the entire game... something RJ simply can't do ( he couldn't even stop Westbrook).
Randle is far from perfect but he has been very very good this season. On game ( where he wasn't even that bad) shouldn't change that. He helps the Knicks win games night in and night out. Does Barrett do that? I don't think so... I'm not sure he's even a top 5 player on the Knicks anymore.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I asked this earlier: Doesn't RJ have the poison pill?
Randle was featured down the stretch when Brunson and Quickley were so hot. It shows you how awful Thibs is IMO. He seems to have no feel for the game.
Randle was terrible yesterday and choked the game away late. Turnovers, lazy defense, bad shots. You can't believe people killing Randle???
He had a bad game no doubt. But aside from one possession where he gave Lebron too much space, where was the lazy defense? He actually came up big on defense at the very end of the 4th on a great contest on a lebron 3. He also guarded Lebron the entire game... something RJ simply can't do ( he couldn't even stop Westbrook).
Randle is far from perfect but he has been very very good this season. On game ( where he wasn't even that bad) shouldn't change that. He helps the Knicks win games night in and night out. Does Barrett do that? I don't think so... I'm not sure he's even a top 5 player on the Knicks anymore.
We does this have to be a RJ vs. Randle conversation?
We are discussing how bad Randle was last night in the 4th quarter and overtime and how he is inconsistent, whining, selfish player.
That should be traded.
If you want to discuss RJ we can it not a RJ vs. Randle thing
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
Trent is a grest fit, arguably a better fit than OG
GTJ just turned 24 years old and is averaging 19 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 steals on 44/37/83% shooting. If he can really be had for 2 *second round* picks or a protected #1 he's a no-brainer for multiple teams. I'd run to complete that.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
It might be because he's a FA next year and will be looking for a pay day as he's currently underpaid?
I don't want OG. I've said it before, I don't trust Thibs to use him as a 4, to be creative with the lineup, so what point is a rangy switchable guy with such an inflexible coach. He'll just take minutes from RJ and Grimes because god knows he wouldn't take them from Randle.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
Trent is a grest fit, arguably a better fit than OG
I said this yesterday I'd be way more in on him than OG. When he was traded before he resigned with Toronto so he's not adverse to doing that. I agree he's a great fit and he'll be cheaper than OG. I'd roll the dice we can resign him if he's a fit the rest of the season
RE: RE: Knicks are willing to send 3- 1st to Toronto
For OG.
Please no!!!
Waste 3 first for a role player shooting 36% in uncontested 3's typical Knicks move.
They offered the Dallas, Washington and Detroit picks per that report. I'm sure it was already declined.
Was declined weeks ago
AJ are you hearing anything else on Knicks front with trades?
If they are trying to win this year, I don't think they continue to play Mcbride while not using Rose, Fournier or Reddish. Really doesn't make any sense...
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
It might be because he's a FA next year and will be looking for a pay day as he's currently underpaid?
I don't want OG. I've said it before, I don't trust Thibs to use him as a 4, to be creative with the lineup, so what point is a rangy switchable guy with such an inflexible coach. He'll just take minutes from RJ and Grimes because god knows he wouldn't take them from Randle.
Of course he's looking to get paid. What FA isn't? That's still an unbelievably low ask for a player with an extremely high floor who just turned 24 years old.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
It might be because he's a FA next year and will be looking for a pay day as he's currently underpaid?
I don't want OG. I've said it before, I don't trust Thibs to use him as a 4, to be creative with the lineup, so what point is a rangy switchable guy with such an inflexible coach. He'll just take minutes from RJ and Grimes because god knows he wouldn't take them from Randle.
Of course he's looking to get paid. What FA isn't? That's still an unbelievably low ask for a player with an extremely high floor who just turned 24 years old.
Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that the Knicks shouldn't do it. If they like him and think he could contribute (I think his 3 point shooting alone could be a huge asset), they should pursue a deal.
I just was mentioning he's a FA next year because it might be the reason that Toronto's asking price is low.
drives me fucking bonkers when I read the Knicks considering making moves for players that "fit Thibs system" or "what Thibs likes to do". He's 6 games under .500 as Knicks coach over the past 2 seasons and 65 years old. His system and "wants" should no longer be considered.
Untradable right now...
he has done things lately that a high schooler wouldn't do,last night he basically lost his dribble,on his own accord, which lead to a fast break the other direction.
Yet,he stayed with it and righted the ship in the 4th Q.
we have seen him score 30 plus,and crap out the next game...
Either way,I do believe we are "stuck" with him due to his new contract,so hopefully Thibbs and the coaches can iron out the wrinkles and get him back his confidence
2 2nds for him or even 1 protected 1st is a no brainer. I think the Knicks blew it this summer with Mitchell at their shot for a true star so now I would pivot and continue to acquire good young players like Trent. I don't care that he's a free agent. He hits a need now and going forward.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
To me he is 100% an upgrade over Grimes who is inconsistent.
Grateful for that at this point, as I’ve seen all I really need to see. Brunson is excellent, Grimes and Quickley are solid players worth keeping, Randle can’t be trusted despite his numbers, and RJ isn’t gonna live up to his draft status.
Hopefully Leon earns some of that fat contract he never deserved to begin with.
Randle can be trusted he just can't be the best player or finisher on this kind of team.
He's a rock at PF. Literally one of the very best PFs in the game.
We need to be logical and smart with Randle. Just because he isn't Karl Malone with 20 seconds left doesn't mean he can't be part of a championship core. The guy is an all star caliber player. And we know this.
Just because he isn't Karl Malone with 20 seconds left.'...
I sure AF hope he wouldn't be Malone with 20 seconds left. Mail Fraud sucked in the clutch. Have we forgotten him missing two FGS in the closing seconds of Game 1 of the '97 Finals? Then MJ wins the game with a buzzer beat. And this is after Malone somehow won MVP over MJ that season.
Brunson has been better than I could have even hoped for. It'd be a fucking travesty if he isn't named an All Star reserve.
Not a good look for RJ ducking the media post game. I'm starting to worry about him a little.
I don't see this as a new trend for RJ. He was chasing points and talking about focusing on his offensive game last year.
His defense has gotten worse the more he's been in the league, and he no longer draws the toughest defensive assignments. They gave that to Grimes to take pressure off RJ and he's responded by getting lazy at it.
He wants to be an all star so bad that he chased a pretty PPG. The offense is better. The defense is becoming an issue.
Great twitter thread with video on his defense last night,
Brunson has been better than I could have even hoped for. It'd be a fucking travesty if he isn't named an All Star reserve.
Not a good look for RJ ducking the media post game. I'm starting to worry about him a little.
I don't see this as a new trend for RJ. He was chasing points and talking about focusing on his offensive game last year.
His defense has gotten worse the more he's been in the league, and he no longer draws the toughest defensive assignments. They gave that to Grimes to take pressure off RJ and he's responded by getting lazy at it.
He wants to be an all star so bad that he chased a pretty PPG. The offense is better. The defense is becoming an issue.
I agree that his defense has fallen off. In terms of offense, I'm not sure I totally agree. Every year he has been im the league he has shown strady progress ... until this year. We know he starts off the season slow every year but his 3 point show last year for the majority of the year was really good. He has always been underwhelming when he drives to the basket. For a guy that doesn't get muscled around at the rim for a young player, he sure misses a lot close range shots or just gets blocked. I was hoping he would learn from past mistakes and take another step this year but he hasn't. It sucks. I wasn't as down on him as most. I felt there were a lot of things to build off of but his game has not progressed this year at all. His 3 point shot isn't good. He still makes up his mind too early if he is going to drive or not no matter what. When you watch Brunson, we all see him improvise on instinct what he is going to do. The way he can pump fake and make guys miss him while getting in a better position to take a shot is awesome. I am not saying RJ needs to be at that level. What I am saying is that he should be more natural with the ball. A mid range game would do him wonders.
RE: Great twitter thread with video on his defense last night,
If he was 26 we would be in trouble. Question is do the Knicks have the patience to wait it out same with Quickley who I don't think has reached his potential, I think he could be an cusp all-star 2 guard by time he hits 26 .
Brooklyn vs Boston game.
It's a clinic on ball movement and spacing.
It's the reason the Knicks could never hang in a 7 game series
Knicks cant compete in a 7 game series with Boston because they have 2 star players..
Tatum and Brown are both iso players, they have 10 assists on 22 shots..
The reason the Celtics have taken their team to another level is because 1) they have shooters all of the court and 2) Tatum and Brown became much better passers offense runs through them..
And I readily admit he’s a solid bench scorer at best, but I have a feeling he’d be a good Knick. He’s just crazy enough to flourish in this environment.
16 (here we go) Dolan wants a shake up. Getting involved again. Was too good to be true. I hope we don’t get suckered in again. Knicks been quiet too long. Mgmt exploring more now than ever. Nothing imminent. Some proud people in front office wanting to stay course. In other wards a complete fucking circus once again.
16 (here we go) Dolan wants a shake up. Getting involved again. Was too good to be true. I hope we don’t get suckered in again. Knicks been quiet too long. Mgmt exploring more now than ever. Nothing imminent. Some proud people in front office wanting to stay course. In other wards a complete fucking circus once again.
Kind of agree with Dolan, not necassarily a shake up, but the team needs a trade, can not jist sit on your hands every deadline, when the team needs a move..
My guess Aller and maybe Perrin are against making a trade..
Wes and Thibs are pushing for one
You absolutely can sit on your hands and pass on bad deals
Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.
Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year
That's undoubtedtly true. We can't pick players with all these picks. But, I'd guess that Leon is patient enough to keep kicking the can down the road, turn current picks into future picks and wait. That can be frustrating, but I also kind of respect it. It seems that Jimmy isn't as patient.
will probably be a bad deal. There's a bunch of teams that are in the middle of the pack and this offseason inflated trade values by a LOT. If that trend continues, then it's going to be prohibitively expensive for rotational players in the trade market.
You have to make smart decisions for the future(we aren't winning anything in the present). That should be the only thing they are focused on.
It'd be nice to make small moves here and there for guys that help us, but we don't HAVE to force a move that could hurt us in the future.
If this was Leon Rose's first or 2nd year, i would agree 100%, but it is his 3rd deadline, he has done nothing the past 2 years when there were clear moves the Knicks needed to make..
Eventually you got to make moves that can effect the future, it may not work, but at the same time sitting on your hands isnt working either..
Now i am not saying throw 3 unprotected to get OG, but at the same time, the clear upgrade needed is a backup wing..go get one, it doesnt have to be a huge move, it can be for Malik Beasley or Josh Richardson but at least your doing something to help improve
I don't understand why they don't move off Reddish.
Outside of recovery some value for Cam.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
RE: RE: RE: You absolutely can sit on your hands and pass on bad deals
Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.
Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year
That's undoubtedtly true. We can't pick players with all these picks. But, I'd guess that Leon is patient enough to keep kicking the can down the road, turn current picks into future picks and wait. That can be frustrating, but I also kind of respect it. It seems that Jimmy isn't as patient.
But this is his 3rd trade deadline and will be his 4th offseason. You eventually have to be bold and make a move one way or the other. You can't just keep kicking the can down the road...
Even if it means taking a step back and trying to build up even more assets. He needs to pick a direction and start heading toward it. He just seems very scared to take a big swing.
Outside of recovery some value for Cam.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
So sit on your hands and just kick the can down the road again? they are a 7th seed currently, can be the 5th or 6th seed, everyone is bunched up exceot for a couple of teams..
You got 2 potential all star players, doesnt seem right to me to at least try and improve the current roster, you never know what could happen
Outside of recovery some value for Cam.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
But trade values are going to continue to go up. Thats why I never understood the people balking at the Mitchell cost. If there is another guy like him that becomes available- its going to cost more not less.
More teams are contending for the playoffs now with the play in and free agency is becoming incredibly watered down with the new rules that allow teams to extend.
You have to pay up for quality players and honestly OG is going to cost a lot more than 2 1sts...
Where are his minutes going to come from? We know he's not playing the 4 with this coach and Randle still on the team. You know he's not going to play the 5.
So his minutes are coming from RJ's minutes and Grimes. How many more wins will this team have they add him? He's a really nice role player, but that's not what the Knicks need. And we definitely don't need a player who's biggest asset is his position flexibility with this coach.
ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.
The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..
How does that stop them for trading for a star?
It doesn't stop them, but it certainly depletes some of their assets. Masai isn't going to accept the worst of the protected picks from the Knicks for OG...
It also depends what the true value of Barrett is when the poison pill runs out.
But who is a likely star that will become available in the next year that's a fit for the Knicks? Things always change but its hard to identify that player right now.
RE: RE: RE: If you can make a deal on the margins...
ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.
The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..
How does that stop them for trading for a star?
It doesn't stop them, but it certainly depletes some of their assets. Masai isn't going to accept the worst of the protected picks from the Knicks for OG...
It also depends what the true value of Barrett is when the poison pill runs out.
But who is a likely star that will become available in the next year that's a fit for the Knicks? Things always change but its hard to identify that player right now.
Booker, i have heard through the grapevine that the new owner may want to start over with that team, james jones is pushing back on that and wants to make 1 more run at it but the new ownwer is supposedly going to be hands on..
I would really like to see how a starting lineup of Mitch, Randle, OG, Grimes, Brunson plays together with Iq and Rj off the bench...
Also as I’ve proven to some here , my connections are on the agency side. So I don’t get a lot of non CAA stuff or mgt stuff (not connected enough). I would think AJR has some connections on mgt side (not agency) he/she hasn’t said but our total disagreement on DJ (agency client) who he hates with a passion makes me think that. He has been silent so I would think he hasn’t heard anything that’s not already in papers or on internet.
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
2m
The Raptors are looking for young players in trade talks centered around OG Anunoby and Fred VanVleet, per ESPN’s Brian Windhorst
“Guys in the league to put around the core that they have around Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes.”
Makes this Knicks team much better.
OG is a role player and I can only see the frustration Knicks fans will have watching him offensively.
If you replace RJ with OG, it will be nothing but the Randle and Brunson show. OG is not a shot creator and will collect dust on the wing as Brunson and Randle play with their food.
The bench will once again be more fun to watch with Quickley, RJ and crew playing ball movement up tempo basketball.
NY16 you put Grimes, OG, Robinson, Randle and Brunson on the court together and you are playing Thibs slow archaic ISO ball a losing formula
Makes this Knicks team much better.
OG is a role player and I can only see the frustration Knicks fans will have watching him offensively.
If you replace RJ with OG, it will be nothing but the Randle and Brunson show. OG is not a shot creator and will collect dust on the wing as Brunson and Randle play with their food.
The bench will once again be more fun to watch with Quickley, RJ and crew playing ball movement up tempo basketball.
NY16 you put Grimes, OG, Robinson, Randle and Brunson on the court together and you are playing Thibs slow archaic ISO ball a losing formula
You realize every single team plays iso right? the reason it looks better with other teams, is because they have superstars doing it..
and again Rj cant be the 3rd guy, it doesnt fit, him off the bench allows him to at least play his game..
the 3rd player on any good team is not a scorer, they are a shooter, defender, rebounder, move the ball type of player, not a pound the ball wing who has no midrange and an iffy 3 point shot..
You keep wanting to take Grimes out of the starting lineup, the player that needs to be taken out is Rj because he doesnt fit, not because he is a bad plauer bit because he doesnt fit at as a 3rd option..
You realize every single team plays iso right? the reason it looks better with other teams, is because they have superstars doing it..
this x1000
all the old timers in here yearn to see DeBuschere zipping the ball to Bradley to Clyde and everybody touching the ball every possesion...
It ain't gonna happen. watching the Celtic game last week everyone said the Knicks stopped moving the ball down the stretch and everything became stagnant. The Celtics did the same thing! the last 6 or 7 possessions were completely Tatum isos. The difference is they had Jason Tatum. Mitchell could have been that type of impact player for us, especially combined with Brunson but alas.. Rose chickened out.
To the guys that want this front office to make a move...
that other teams are running ISO as much as we do. Even if they do, we're in the bottom of the league in assisted buckets, so we're not spraying the ball out from these ISO opportunities.
Even if you don't have a problem with this stagnant ass offense, we can acknowledge that the ball is way too sticky with the players running the ISOs right?
RE: To the guys that want this front office to make a move...
that other teams are running ISO as much as we do. Even if they do, we're in the bottom of the league in assisted buckets, so we're not spraying the ball out from these ISO opportunities.
Even if you don't have a problem with this stagnant ass offense, we can acknowledge that the ball is way too sticky with the players running the ISOs right?
Yes, the problem isnt iso, the problem is who is running iso..
also the assist numbers would probably look better if there were better shooters on this team..
The low assists are a combination of sticky fingers at times and bad shooting from the perimiter..
The difference between a great team, a good team and an awful team in the NBA is not the offense they run, its the 2 top players and who can close out a game..
Knicks have 2 very good top players, ita why they are a good team, they are not a great team because they cant close out games..they will here and there but the great teams close out a majority of their games
Down the stretch both teams were running the exact same play, Holiday hit clutch 3s and the Knicks did not, Milwaukee made the right read, the Knicks did not..
People complained Knicks ran to much iso, it was the exact same offense but because the Knicks struggled people blamed iso for the issue
Because in the offseason after the draft you can then trade 24, 25 top 5 protected Milwaukee pick, 28 and 30 and you still have a couple of the ither protected picks sprinkled in
The iso talk is ridiculous. Watch around the league- do you think the best teams are running some princeton based motion offense? Come on.
They run screen and roll, iso with their best scorers and have good shooting. Thats a good NBA offense.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any scenario where the new Phoenix owner comes in and deals Devin Booker? Why would he do that? Don't see any way OKC deals SGA either...
Is there any way with his contract to deal RJ to Toronto?
That a big leap.
Not every team runs ISO like we do and they all don't run the same offense. It's like saying everyone's runs shotgun.
Your sets and movements dictate ball movement.
This is not a free flow cutting offense it's a iso, penetrate and distribute offense which is poorly run. On top of it they do not push the ball up court so there tempo is constantly in the bottom of the league.
The 2nd unit might run the same offense but it is predicated on tempo and getting the ball up quickly that's why it is a better looking offense.(because of Quickley and young guys)
They are moving to the open look and getting quicker shots.
It's more like the offense Thibs ran in Chicago with Rose.
Push, penetration and quick shots.
I am surprised that people can defend this offense it's horrible.
RE: To the guys that want this front office to make a move...
Lets say Toronto comes back and says...we want Obi, McBride, 2 unprotected 1sts and Dallas' 1st. We have to do that?
No way. 2 unprotected picks would be malpractice. At most one unprotected, 1 lightly protected (preferably this year) and another team's first we own.
This is my point. There is a limit for everyone. There are people urging this FO to make a deal. We can't force a team to accept what we are offering. At some point, you have to walk away and say it's too much.
RE: I don't understand why they don't move off Reddish.
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any scenario where the new Phoenix owner comes in and deals Devin Booker? Why would he do that? Don't see any way OKC deals SGA either...
I doubt it either, the frustrating thing is the Knicks could have taken him instead of Knox, or for that matter D. Mitchell instead of Frank.
That’s why I hate to see them trade away assets for essentially role players when they need so much more than that. They are better off using the picks themselves and try to find their own star if they can’t trade for one, but don’t empty the arsenal on role players even if they are decent players,it’s simply not worth it in the long run. Either get those guys on the cheap, trade for a genuine star, or keep building from within and hope one of your picks turns into your own Mitchell
The knicks have no motion. They do the same dribble
Hand off at the top of the key over and over that’s it. Grimes and rj are constantly spaced on the 3pt line and don’t ever cut. They are designated to the corners. Schematically the offense is very poorly put together
It is not just iso at the end of games. It’s constant my turn your turn from those starting 5 throughout the game
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
There isn't much wrong with how the Knicks run their offense.
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
That's the point it's a 2 man offense that is predicated on Randall and Bronson creating and making tough shots.
That's why when they play a tough defense that you can take away one or two they're done.
It's hero ball at its finest and it's not sustainable and will get destroyed in the playoffs
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
That's the point it's a 2 man offense that is predicated on Randall and Bronson creating and making tough shots.
That's why when they play a tough defense that you can take away one or two they're done.
It's hero ball at its finest and it's not sustainable and will get destroyed in the playoffs
Every team is a 2 man offense, and then 3 through 10 are complimentary pieces. You habe a scorer off the bench to mix in with your top 2 guys and then everyone aorund them is complimentsry..
Its why Rj doesnt fit with this team..
You look at any great team in this league, their 3rd best player is a shooter, great defender, rebounder and ball mover..
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
That's the point it's a 2 man offense that is predicated on Randall and Bronson creating and making tough shots.
That's why when they play a tough defense that you can take away one or two they're done.
It's hero ball at its finest and it's not sustainable and will get destroyed in the playoffs
Every team is a 2 man offense, and then 3 through 10 are complimentary pieces. You habe a scorer off the bench to mix in with your top 2 guys and then everyone aorund them is complimentsry..
Its why Rj doesnt fit with this team..
You look at any great team in this league, their 3rd best player is a shooter, great defender, rebounder and ball mover..
What seperates teams is their top 2 guys..
You're not getting this it's not about you talent it's about utilization and in the moments being able to use the rest of the players around you they don't.
Great players make average players better around them by distributing and moving the ball it's do or die with these two guys.
Players are stagnant throughout the whole game. This offense is my turn your turn my turn your turn.
Tell me how often 4 people touch the ball on a possession on this team.
I mean last year how many times did we see Evan and Randle 2 man game as everyone else stood in the corner . Randle dribble it up.
Don’t get me wrong. The Knicks pieces do not mesh at all. Rj Brunson Randle all want to live in the paint. And grimes is not the knock down spacer some believed him to be. But if you think this is an offense that shares the ball and is “like most other teams” you are out of your mind
Randle with Tatum and Brunson with Ja Morant and they played the exact same offense, they wouldnt be better?
Of course it would be better and you are talking about 2 top 3 players in the league that are unselfish ball players that would make the extra pass.
Would this be a good offense for them absolutely not.
Tatum strive in a high assist, wide spacing, move the ball offense currently.
Ja is in a fast pace, heavy drive and kick offense built around what he does well.
Both of these players put their teams in position to be successful to open up space for them to operate.
Which Randle has never done and I have hope for Brunson because right now he is trying to carry the team every night and do too much to validate his contract and put the weight of the city on his shoulders.
Players are stagnant throughout the whole game. This offense is my turn your turn my turn your turn.
Tell me how often 4 people touch the ball on a possession on this team.
I mean last year how many times did we see Evan and Randle 2 man game as everyone else stood in the corner . Randle dribble it up.
Don’t get me wrong. The Knicks pieces do not mesh at all. Rj Brunson Randle all want to live in the paint. And grimes is not the knock down spacer some believed him to be. But if you think this is an offense that shares the ball and is “like most other teams” you are out of your mind
They are 28th in assists for 2 reasons, they do not habe knock down shooters and there are times Randle and Brunson shoot to much..
You put a knock down shooter in Rj's spot and guarantee the assists go up..
You should watch other teams offense and see how they get those open 3s and how the ball movement starts, 9 times out of 10 its off their star being doubled or creating and kickong out..
and the DHO that zrandle ran with fournier is a staple in most NBA offenses, you see it all the time run with Golden State
Randle with Tatum and Brunson with Ja Morant and they played the exact same offense, they wouldnt be better?
Of course it would be better and you are talking about 2 top 3 players in the league that are unselfish ball players that would make the extra pass.
Would this be a good offense for them absolutely not.
Tatum strive in a high assist, wide spacing, move the ball offense currently.
Ja is in a fast pace, heavy drive and kick offense built around what he does well.
Both of these players put their teams in position to be successful to open up space for them to operate.
Which Randle has never done and I have hope for Brunson because right now he is trying to carry the team every night and do too much to validate his contract and put the weight of the city on his shoulders.
wait you think Tatum scores off assists? seriously? Tatum is one of the more iso heavy players in the league the Celtics run iso for much of the game..
Ja Morant would thrive in Thibs offense just like derrick Rose did..
Randle and Tatum have the same assist numbers..Tatum blows him away scoring wise, its not even a debate but saying Tatum thrives in a ball movement offrnse is laughably wrong
I have seen countless times where other players get wide open looks of Brunsor Randle iso and they miss the shot.
They take 50% of the shots currently and I bet if you looked at what they take by possession that they are on the floor it probably pushes to 70%.
When they pass it out of necessity not to move the ball or get players involved.
BTW I hate adding Brunson to this because I think this offense forces him to play this way instead having other options .
Randle with Tatum and Brunson with Ja Morant and they played the exact same offense, they wouldnt be better?
Of course it would be better and you are talking about 2 top 3 players in the league that are unselfish ball players that would make the extra pass.
Would this be a good offense for them absolutely not.
Tatum strive in a high assist, wide spacing, move the ball offense currently.
Ja is in a fast pace, heavy drive and kick offense built around what he does well.
Both of these players put their teams in position to be successful to open up space for them to operate.
Which Randle has never done and I have hope for Brunson because right now he is trying to carry the team every night and do too much to validate his contract and put the weight of the city on his shoulders.
wait you think Tatum scores off assists? seriously? Tatum is one of the more iso heavy players in the league the Celtics run iso for much of the game..
Ja Morant would thrive in Thibs offense just like derrick Rose did..
Randle and Tatum have the same assist numbers..Tatum blows him away scoring wise, its not even a debate but saying Tatum thrives in a ball movement offrnse is laughably wrong
The offense Tatum is in is a high assist move the ball offense where everyone on the floor is involved it gives him the spacing to operate and Tatum is not using 20 seconds of the shot clock to score.
One for the ages, he is a genius.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
One for the ages, he is a genius.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
Yup because thats what i said..
Just admit you hate Randle and no matter ehat he does, you are going to shit on it..
If it was Rj playing Randles role you wouldnt be bitching..
Thibs offense isnt perfect but if you had 2 star players the offense would be fine..
is not a thibs issue, its a randle issue..he folds, thats why they need a star..if Randle didnt fold in the 4th quarter, this team wouldnt need a star player
One for the ages, he is a genius.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
Yup because thats what i said..
Just admit you hate Randle and no matter ehat he does, you are going to shit on it..
If it was Rj playing Randles role you wouldnt be bitching..
Thibs offense isnt perfect but if you had 2 star players the offense would be fine..
No hate Thibs and I like Randle if he was used properly and had a coach that didn't let Randle run the team same with Brunson he is being miss used.
RJ get too much of a leash and is not being developed and when he is finally held accountable he has no clue what to do.
It's a coaching issue 100%
I own a F'ing Randle jersey I would love for him to be a great all around player but without accountability. He does what he did on the last play of the game vs.the Lakers.
Whatever the fuck he wants to do.
One for the ages, he is a genius.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
Yup because thats what i said..
Just admit you hate Randle and no matter ehat he does, you are going to shit on it..
If it was Rj playing Randles role you wouldnt be bitching..
Thibs offense isnt perfect but if you had 2 star players the offense would be fine..
No hate Thibs and I like Randle if he was used properly and had a coach that didn't let Randle run the team same with Brunson he is being miss used.
RJ get too much of a leash and is not being developed and when he is finally held accountable he has no clue what to do.
It's a coaching issue 100%
I own a F'ing Randle jersey I would love for him to be a great all around player but without accountability. He does what he did on the last play of the game vs.the Lakers.
Whatever the fuck he wants to do.
playing their A game tonight. Because why wouldn't they. Word is Alonzo Mourning is coming out of retirement to play this one game then he will go back to losing fights with smaller people wallowing in obscurity.
I wonder if Kristaps Porzingis can be had in a trade
Hahhahahha
George Mikan lives
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?dir=D&sort=TIME_OF_POSS
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?dir=D&sort=TIME_OF_POSS
I remember thinking that could be a problem when we were looking at signing him...he dribbles alot and shoots alot fpr a PG
Don't get me wrong I love him but...its am issue
[quote] expect Lebron to shoot a ton of free throws [/quote
How Scott Foster still is an NBA official is one of life's greatest mysteries, up there with 'Is there an afterlife?' & 'What wouldn't Meat Loaf do for love?'
Wtf??
Wtf??
Crawford predicts Lebron gets 40.
The lady (not sure of her name) predicts that, with Mitch out, AD gets 16-17 rebounds and 30-35 points.
The Knicks sure get a lot of respect! Mitch being out was the only mention of a Knick.
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And they have not even mentioned the Knicks are playing tonight
Wtf??
Crawford predicts Lebron gets 40.
The lady (not sure of her name) predicts that, with Mitch out, AD gets 16-17 rebounds and 30-35 points.
The Knicks sure get a lot of respect! Mitch being out was the only mention of a Knick.
I sneezed and missed the Mitch comment
(Obviously I meant the color commentator.)
Hey Thibs you know you can sub early? i dont know maybe bring in Quick gice the team a little spark?
and of course phantom call from Scott Foster
this is unreal
Nice defense. Not.
Hey Thibs you know you can sub early? i dont know maybe bring in Quick give the team a little spark?
That's what I was thinking too. I'm starting to agree with those on here saying RJ would be better on the second team.
Former Mav Jim Jackson.
Le Queef
Right Now Hartenstein is backpedaling into the first row guarding no one
Excellent question
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.
Excellent question
New big contract and wants to prove himself an All Star, he has stated.
I really root for RJB (I rooted for his father on St John's) but right now he's somewhat of a head case IMO. It would be best for him to go with the second team and work his way back up. Probably won't happen - absent a trade - for PR reasons but that's my basketball analysis FWIW.
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In comment 16021379 Ira said:
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.
Excellent question
New big contract and wants to prove himself an All Star, he has stated.
I really root for RJB (I rooted for his father on St John's) but right now he's somewhat of a head case IMO. It would be best for him to go with the second team and work his way back up. Probably won't happen - absent a trade - for PR reasons but that's my basketball analysis FWIW.
I think you hit it on the head...he is putting to much pressure on himself
Grimes has to be 1 for his last 10 in the clutch and the shots are WIDE open.
Can't win a game shooting as poorly as the Knicks are especially from 3
That was terrible terrible defense.
Shocked they didnt just have Lebron drive, he had to know he would get the call regardless
Go easy on him - his Cowboys lost last week too.
Can’t lie… I wasn’t confident.
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take that finger and stick it up your ass
Go easy on him - his Cowboys lost last week too.
true
with Scott Foster i wouldnt have been shocked
Maybe not.
WTF.
Randle ISO on a double team
Randle's dick is so far up Thibs' ass that he controls his brain.
He is so bad in the clutch
yup, he has played well this season and is an all star but at the end of games he should not have the ball
I’m just so happy to know that every team and player saves their very best for msg and the Knicks. For some reason, every player embarks on a personal crusade the second they walk into that place.
I give up. Now go rest another week Davis and Lebron you fucking cunts.
If he played defense and started to move the ball, it would of been fine, but when his shot is off, his entire game is off
Its why they are not a better team, you have 2 all star caliber players, you should be better than 2 games over 500..
Coaching and Randle not being a clutch player, hurts this team
Ball should of went right back to Brunson, inexcusable that Thibs draws up a play for Randle
The defense leaves a wide open three point shooter seemingly every play.
There are 5 teams that are 10 games under .500 or worse. Those are the only teams with worse home records than the Knicks. Shit is ridiculous.
Lol
The defense leaves a wide open three point shooter seemingly every play.
There are 5 teams that are 10 games under .500 or worse. Those are the only teams with worse home records than the Knicks. Shit is ridiculous.
I think certain players do in certain situations, Randles brain shuts off during crunch time, Rj has terrible IQ
I think Quickley, Brunson, Grimes are very smart players..
Giving up the 3, is Thibs scheme, he wants to protect the paint first and then run out to shooters, its why he never goes small, which is ridiculous in todays NBA
Hopefully Leon earns some of that fat contract he never deserved to begin with.
Hopefully Leon earns some of that fat contract he never deserved to begin with.
Leon better do something at the deadline, he cant just sit on his hands over and over again, i know a star is not available but do something, team clearly needs another wing
They are missing a finisher and a wing off the bench, knicks really arent far off
Yeah the team really lacks athleticism. IQ isn’t a great athlete but he looks like Ja Morant out there compared to his teammates.
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This sucks
Yeah the team really lacks athleticism. IQ isn’t a great athlete but he looks like Ja Morant out there compared to his teammates.
I think Thibs constantly having to play big kills any athleticism this team has..
I think if they can pull off a trade for OG, it would be best for him to come off the bench, its clear he doesnt fit with the starters and off the bench, him and IQ can just go out and score..
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I noticed he was visibly angry when he got pulled in the fourth.
I think if they can pull off a trade for OG, it would be best for him to come off the bench, its clear he doesnt fit with the starters and off the bench, him and IQ can just go out and score..
They are only 3 games away from not making the playoffs.
Our unprotected this year could easily be a lottery pick. I hate to say it but trade Rose, Fournier, and Cam and hold tight.
OG doesn't make them a guaranteed playoff team and giving away assets for a role player doesn't do it for me.
They are only 3 games away from not making the playoffs.
Our unprotected this year could easily be a lottery pick. I hate to say it but trade Rose, Fournier, and Cam and hold tight.
OG doesn't make them a guaranteed playoff team and giving away assets for a role player doesn't do it for me.
OG would 100% help this team, fills a huge need..
There is nothing that will amke them a contender that i agree with
I wouldn't say ducked. He told them directly: "I got nothing to say." I'd call that a wise choice.
Thibs has been pulling RJ around the six minute mark of the fourth for a while now. Usually puts him back with less than two minutes; tonight he didn't.
RJ was 4-5 from the field in the second half; 3-3 in the first five minutes of the 4Q before he was pulled.
RJ has the contract. I suspect he will outlast Thibs.
I dont think the Knicks will because they want to make the playoffs, but cant say you are wrong, you are most likely right.
Injust dont know what team out there would be willing to trade 2 1sts for him
I was laughing hysterically after the TO. I thought to myself, "Thibs must know by now not to give Randle the ball in the clutch." Nope.
Timeout play: "Randle Iso. So what's everyone doing after the game?"
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how fucking stupid can you be?
I was laughing hysterically after the TO. I thought to myself, "Thibs must know by now not to give Randle the ball in the clutch." Nope.
Timeout play: "Randle Iso. So what's everyone doing after the game?"
Not sure if you saw my post but I texted it before it happened. Like clockwork with this asshole.
I am not down on the front office, i just think the time for sitting on their hands is over.
They have built a good team but now is the time to capitilize, you add a piece at the deadline and then you cna go star hunting and be a contender next year
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
I’m glad I don’t watch this team every game. They just stand around playing iso ball. I guess that is the NBA these days.
Not a fan of Thibs…
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
I’m glad I don’t watch this team every game. They just stand around playing iso ball. I guess that is the NBA these days.
Not a fan of Thibs…
its always been iso ball
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
I’m glad I don’t watch this team every game. They just stand around playing iso ball. I guess that is the NBA these days.
Not a fan of Thibs…
Rick, the sad thing is the ball movement was actually really good last night so you don't want to see more games. Lol.
Terrible play by Randle who was double teamed.
You're correct. Everybody killing Thibs for the play design but the ball was supposed to go back to Brunson after he in-bounded to Randle.
I guess you can fault Thibs for trusting Randle.
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In comment 16021428 nygiants16 said:
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how fucking stupid can you be?
I was laughing hysterically after the TO. I thought to myself, "Thibs must know by now not to give Randle the ball in the clutch." Nope.
Timeout play: "Randle Iso. So what's everyone doing after the game?"
Not sure if you saw my post but I texted it before it happened. Like clockwork with this asshole.
This team is not winning a damn thing with Thibs at the helm. And this is Brunson's team, not Randle's. If Randle has a problem with that, he can fuck off. Trade his ass. Randle would actually net a nice haul given his season, but I doubt Lil' Jimmy would give the FO the green light to trade him. It's a shame. They put such a premium on making the playoffs, but we simply don't have the guns or the coach to make a long run. I'd rather trade Randle by the Deadline and build around Brunson than make the Playoffs as the sixth seed or lower and get eliminated in the first round. Then again, I don't trust Leon Rose on trades.
And speaking of which, they need to move on from Leon, WWW, and the rest of the charlatans. Go all in on trying to pry Masai Ujiri away from Toronto.
I agree with you, and I hate to say it. Randle is a low IQ player that's gaining a losing reputation. I would sell high on him if I could.
Haven't you heard the saying that the guy who in-bounds is the most dangerous?
The idea of the play is that the defenders surround the guy Brunson in-bounds it to, and then that guy throws it back to Brunson, who is wide open.
And, as Rick in Dallas points out is his post above, that is exactly what happened. Except Randle dribbled into the trap instead of passing it back to Brunson.
Also, I wonder if our players were tired. Wonder if anything could have been done to mitigate those tired legs at the end of regulation where IQ had played 21 straight minutes. Probably not.
Rj like Randle was the one player who never truly gets punished.
If you are willing to yank rj for being bad. Thibs has to now hold Randle accountable.
There is plenty of times he’s as bad as rj but thibs is scared of upsetting Randle
But still that ball needs to be in Brunson's hands from the start and let him take the last shot. You can't trust Randle there. IQ or someone else could have easily inbounded.
Bad look for RJ last night. Don't go pouting on the bench when you can't cover Russell Westbook.
Bad outcome but overall a really fun entertaining game. Has Lebron ever had a bad game at MSG?
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How the fuck can Randal be so great game in game out and yet be so fucking lost in the last seconds of a game. Why no Brunson there? Are we just not allowed to ever have a buzzer fucking beater ever???? Ever????? No I guess not because fuck off. Just stupid.
Its why they are not a better team, you have 2 all star caliber players, you should be better than 2 games over 500..
Coaching and Randle not being a clutch player, hurts this team
Hard to argue with this.
@BrandonTierney
The Knicks are competitive. They play hard. Have some real nice pieces. But where is the bridge to becoming championship viable? Simply do not see one.
Especially since Barrett remains so inconsistent. A treadmill to nowhere, seemingly.
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Brandon Tierney
@BrandonTierney
The Knicks are competitive. They play hard. Have some real nice pieces. But where is the bridge to becoming championship viable? Simply do not see one.
Especially since Barrett remains so inconsistent. A treadmill to nowhere, seemingly.
If he doesnt see the bridge than he is a moron, they have a ton of draft capital to make a trade for a star...
Knicks arent stuck
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How the fuck can Randal be so great game in game out and yet be so fucking lost in the last seconds of a game. Why no Brunson there? Are we just not allowed to ever have a buzzer fucking beater ever???? Ever????? No I guess not because fuck off. Just stupid.
Coaching and Randle not being a clutch player, hurts this team
This x 1000. Randle is simply not clutch and we already know he's a headcase. Trade him now while you can get great value for him.
And Thibs is just awful. Rides his starters players into the ground while alienating others, doesn't adjust, no creativity, worst of all, he can't close. He's basically the coach version of Randle.
There is value to making the playoffs. Stars don’t demand to come to shitty teams. Brunson didn’t sign here to bottom out.
They are also one of the youngest teams in the NBA
That i agree with 100%, Rose has to shit or move out of the way for someone that will
Brunson looks to be a great signing but he is a #2- Randle is fine if you have a better center. they need high IQ shooters on the wing- they lack that-
but the biggest problem is the ball doesnt move.
the biggest positive is brunson is young and excellent. I dont really value IQ. I value grimes though not in untouchable zone. Obi has now been wasted.
Randle hating is a function of bad roster construction and offensive scheme as a result-
I think trading 1 or the other would do the trick
Randle needs to go while he is on the up swing
Funny part is Lebron gave up the ball to Davis at the end of the game for the last second shot Randle should pay attention.
It's not low IQ Randle suffers from it's stats over wins and being the hero.
It's all about Randle.
Knicks will never be a good "team" with Randle
The biggest problem is Thibs and his stibborness. You cant always coach exactly your way, you have to adjust to your roster..
Thibs would rather lose his way than win another way, there is to much evidence of this to say otherwise
Randle needs to go while he is on the up swing
Funny part is Lebron gave up the ball to Davis at the end of the game for the last second shot Randle should pay attention.
It's not low IQ Randle suffers from it's stats over wins and being the hero.
It's all about Randle.
Knicks will never be a good "team" with Randle
Didnt he give up the ball numerous times against Brooklyn and Grimes missed the shot?
He did it against the Celtics as well, finding the open man..
Funny his pass out against Boston led to Rj's wide open 3..
You want to call him unclutch, dumb in the final moments of games? fine, but syaing he doesnt want to win is not really fair, dude plays his ass off
Get through the year with assets intack and evaluate in the summer hopefully at that point we will have a little shake up in the front office and coaching.
This team is not going anywhere this year just let it play out.
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But Randle was bad defensively in the 4th and completely ball dominant in OT, with bad shot selection and turnovers.
Randle needs to go while he is on the up swing
Funny part is Lebron gave up the ball to Davis at the end of the game for the last second shot Randle should pay attention.
It's not low IQ Randle suffers from it's stats over wins and being the hero.
It's all about Randle.
Knicks will never be a good "team" with Randle
Didnt he give up the ball numerous times against Brooklyn and Grimes missed the shot?
He did it against the Celtics as well, finding the open man..
Funny his pass out against Boston led to Rj's wide open 3..
You want to call him unclutch, dumb in the final moments of games? fine, but syaing he doesnt want to win is not really fair, dude plays his ass off
Really like closing out on Lebron's 3 last night?
Come on we watched a whole season of him being disinterest in playing, great players don't act that way. He played horrible against Brooklyn and acted like he didn't want to be there. He even said he played with no effort.
He does whatever he wants, when he wants.
Obi with 10 minutes, RJ sat down the stretch after not missing a shot in the 4th quarter.
Not to mention our sophisticated offense where we run a give and go for Brunson or throw it to Randle at the high post and let them be ball dominant for 20 seconds of a shot clock.
he had at least two lousy possessions on offense. One was a turnover where he decided to try and dribble through 3 defenders. The other was when he took his time backing into his crappy fadeaway - only AD came over so he tried a difficult pass along the baseline that was deflected out of bounds giving them little time to shoot.
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
2 turnovers in 5 minutes fouled on a turnaround and went full iso on every other possession.
NY16 you can live and die with Randle he is trash.
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Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
he had at least two lousy possessions on offense. One was a turnover where he decided to try and dribble through 3 defenders. The other was when he took his time backing into his crappy fadeaway - only AD came over so he tried a difficult pass along the baseline that was deflected out of bounds giving them little time to shoot.
so 2 bad possessions= him dominating the entire 4th?
and you have seen him make that pass all the time to the corner
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Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
2 turnovers in 5 minutes fouled on a turnaround and went full iso on every other possession.
NY16 you can live and die with Randle he is trash.
Who said i want to live and die with him? i just said before if someone came with a good offer id trade him, but i am not going to blame him for everything wrong with this team..
and yes full iso, yet somehow only took 1 shot(which he was foiled) turned it over once on offense and the other was a travel after he got a rebound defensively..
i am sorry not everything wrong with this team is Randle
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
He did not guard Lebron all night probably not even close to half the possessions
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In comment 16021737 nygiants16 said:
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Randle didnt take a single shot in overtime, so i dont know how he was so ball dominant
he had at least two lousy possessions on offense. One was a turnover where he decided to try and dribble through 3 defenders. The other was when he took his time backing into his crappy fadeaway - only AD came over so he tried a difficult pass along the baseline that was deflected out of bounds giving them little time to shoot.
so 2 bad possessions= him dominating the entire 4th?
and you have seen him make that pass all the time to the corner
you said overtime. He sucked in overtime. Period.
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and last season was absolutely awful..
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
He did not guard Lebron all night probably not even close to half the possessions
Who else guarded Lebron? Randle literally was subbed in and out when Lebron was to keep the matchup
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and last season was absolutely awful..
But come on he guarded Lebron all night, on that 3, he could of fought more but it was a pick and roll and he got caught up, the next time down he had a good contest and forced a miss
Do i think Randle is a superstar or anything like that? no, but its ok to let go of last year and actually appreciate what hr is doing this year..
Randle will carry you for 3 and a half quarters, he just cant close, but saying he doesnt play with effort is a little unfair
He did not guard Lebron all night probably not even close to half the possessions
did you watch the game?
I can't believe you guys are killing Randle today. Barrett is the far bigger problem on this time...
Ehh i disagree, Grimes is fine at the 2, unless you are upgrading the 2 spot with a star, Grimes is fine at the 2, fits perfect next Brunson and another star..
I wouldnt give Randle away, if you get 2 first for him, sure but i wouldnt gice him away..
Quickley is obviously a keeper..
I think Mitch is with the right personnel around him..
But the excuse is he is only 22..
Sure he has hit big shots and i gvie him credit for that
I get it fans are drawn to homegrown over drafted or signed players, its why so many want to tank and build through draft
You go on social media and you are killed if you bash rj
They should be taking calls on both, but I don't think they have the balls.
But the excuse is he is only 22..
Sure he has hit big shots and i gvie him credit for that
It's not one or the other here. It's about Randle and his shitty play late in games.
That’s been obvious for so long. The real issue is that he’s simply a poor fit for the roster as presently constructed. The Knicks young roster needs to be developed. He was able to do that in Chicago, but that was a different era of the sport. You can’t guarantee shots go in, but the offense should look more cohesive than this. They don’t have superstars, but they’ve got enough talent look better than this, especially late in games.
It’s odd that the same owner’s other team in the building was recently ONE GAME from firing a coach that led the team to the conference finals and was a Jack Adams Award finalist the prior season. (I know the teams have different expectations.) Where’s the urgency with this team? Leon Rose doesn’t talk, so what is the vision here?
Quickley should be starting over Grimes and I will keep beating that horse to death.
Fred Katz in the athlete. Paid site - ( New Window )
They should be taking calls on both, but I don't think they have the balls.
RJ has a couple of fanboys here but for the most part it seems like most of us realize he still has some major issues with his game. I'm sorta shocked Thibs may finally be coming around on noticing what the rest of us have been pointing out for months/years.
So what you don't like RJ and no matter what game it is any little mistake he makes you jump on .
So be it.
You have been trading him for 3+ years.
You have your right to hate on him and I don't mind discussing it.
Quickley should be starting over RJ and I will keep beating that horse to death.
fixed.
He is a good player, but usually when a superstar is on the other side of the court, he plays small, because he tries too hard and hurts the team. Yesterday, was a great example. On the rare occassions, he gets hot, like the Boston game, it is like fools gold.
The team is poorly constructed with Randle/Barrett in the starting lineup, one of these has to accept a 6th man role or be traded.
Also, while Mitch is a good player, we need a better offensive threat to play with Barrett/Randle. It is why as much I hate to admit it, Porzingis is the perfect fit.
Tibs has to go, he has taken this team as far as he can, another voice needs to come in and tweak things in the rotation, playing small at times and with the offensive sets. The limited offensive center kills us at the end of games.
Obi Toppin has to play more, he has completely regressed and knows he will be pulled the minute he makes a mistake.
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onto bbi. I don't see people endlessly defending RJ on here. Seems like it rotates from game to game. Randle and RJ.
They should be taking calls on both, but I don't think they have the balls.
RJ has a couple of fanboys here but for the most part it seems like most of us realize he still has some major issues with his game. I'm sorta shocked Thibs may finally be coming around on noticing what the rest of us have been pointing out for months/years.
I have noticed Thibs seemingly trusts Quickley over Rj..
I think Rj would not be hapoy based one what hapoened last night, but i would like to see them Bring Rj off the bench and start Quick next to Brunson
You basiclaly would have to bring the spurs into the deal to take on salary..
Basically its 10 going out for the Knicks but the team he is going to is taking on 27 i think
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If so, it'll be nearly impossible to trade him this season.
You basiclaly would have to bring the spurs into the deal to take on salary..
Basically its 10 going out for the Knicks but the team he is going to is taking on 27 i think
I actually could see Pop being interested in RJ, but yeah, that would be way too much to take on.
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In comment 16021809 Anakim said:
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If so, it'll be nearly impossible to trade him this season.
You basiclaly would have to bring the spurs into the deal to take on salary..
Basically its 10 going out for the Knicks but the team he is going to is taking on 27 i think
I actually could see Pop being interested in RJ, but yeah, that would be way too much to take on.
No the spurs would take on a player making 17 to make the deal work finacially, they wouldnt get Rj
its happened the past few games, BOS he came back with around a minute left..
OG to Knicks
Trent to Spurs
He had a bad game no doubt. But aside from one possession where he gave Lebron too much space, where was the lazy defense? He actually came up big on defense at the very end of the 4th on a great contest on a lebron 3. He also guarded Lebron the entire game... something RJ simply can't do ( he couldn't even stop Westbrook).
Randle is far from perfect but he has been very very good this season. On game ( where he wasn't even that bad) shouldn't change that. He helps the Knicks win games night in and night out. Does Barrett do that? I don't think so... I'm not sure he's even a top 5 player on the Knicks anymore.
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In comment 16021815 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16021809 Anakim said:
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If so, it'll be nearly impossible to trade him this season.
You basiclaly would have to bring the spurs into the deal to take on salary..
Basically its 10 going out for the Knicks but the team he is going to is taking on 27 i think
I actually could see Pop being interested in RJ, but yeah, that would be way too much to take on.
No the spurs would take on a player making 17 to make the deal work finacially, they wouldnt get Rj
Oh okay, but I could still see them being interested
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Randle was terrible yesterday and choked the game away late. Turnovers, lazy defense, bad shots. You can't believe people killing Randle???
He had a bad game no doubt. But aside from one possession where he gave Lebron too much space, where was the lazy defense? He actually came up big on defense at the very end of the 4th on a great contest on a lebron 3. He also guarded Lebron the entire game... something RJ simply can't do ( he couldn't even stop Westbrook).
Randle is far from perfect but he has been very very good this season. On game ( where he wasn't even that bad) shouldn't change that. He helps the Knicks win games night in and night out. Does Barrett do that? I don't think so... I'm not sure he's even a top 5 player on the Knicks anymore.
We does this have to be a RJ vs. Randle conversation?
We are discussing how bad Randle was last night in the 4th quarter and overtime and how he is inconsistent, whining, selfish player.
That should be traded.
If you want to discuss RJ we can it not a RJ vs. Randle thing
Please no!!!
Waste 3 first for a role player shooting 36% in uncontested 3's typical Knicks move.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
Trent is a grest fit, arguably a better fit than OG
Please no!!!
Waste 3 first for a role player shooting 36% in uncontested 3's typical Knicks move.
They offered the Dallas, Washington and Detroit picks per that report. I'm sure it was already declined.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
It might be because he's a FA next year and will be looking for a pay day as he's currently underpaid?
I don't want OG. I've said it before, I don't trust Thibs to use him as a 4, to be creative with the lineup, so what point is a rangy switchable guy with such an inflexible coach. He'll just take minutes from RJ and Grimes because god knows he wouldn't take them from Randle.
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Seriously? Without thinking twice
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
Trent is a grest fit, arguably a better fit than OG
I said this yesterday I'd be way more in on him than OG. When he was traded before he resigned with Toronto so he's not adverse to doing that. I agree he's a great fit and he'll be cheaper than OG. I'd roll the dice we can resign him if he's a fit the rest of the season
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For OG.
Please no!!!
Waste 3 first for a role player shooting 36% in uncontested 3's typical Knicks move.
They offered the Dallas, Washington and Detroit picks per that report. I'm sure it was already declined.
Was declined weeks ago
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In comment 16021881 larryflower37 said:
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For OG.
Please no!!!
Waste 3 first for a role player shooting 36% in uncontested 3's typical Knicks move.
They offered the Dallas, Washington and Detroit picks per that report. I'm sure it was already declined.
Was declined weeks ago
AJ are you hearing anything else on Knicks front with trades?
If they are trying to win this year, I don't think they continue to play Mcbride while not using Rose, Fournier or Reddish. Really doesn't make any sense...
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Seriously? Without thinking twice
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
It might be because he's a FA next year and will be looking for a pay day as he's currently underpaid?
I don't want OG. I've said it before, I don't trust Thibs to use him as a 4, to be creative with the lineup, so what point is a rangy switchable guy with such an inflexible coach. He'll just take minutes from RJ and Grimes because god knows he wouldn't take them from Randle.
Of course he's looking to get paid. What FA isn't? That's still an unbelievably low ask for a player with an extremely high floor who just turned 24 years old.
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In comment 16021886 DanMetroMan said:
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Seriously? Without thinking twice
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
It might be because he's a FA next year and will be looking for a pay day as he's currently underpaid?
I don't want OG. I've said it before, I don't trust Thibs to use him as a 4, to be creative with the lineup, so what point is a rangy switchable guy with such an inflexible coach. He'll just take minutes from RJ and Grimes because god knows he wouldn't take them from Randle.
Of course he's looking to get paid. What FA isn't? That's still an unbelievably low ask for a player with an extremely high floor who just turned 24 years old.
Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that the Knicks shouldn't do it. If they like him and think he could contribute (I think his 3 point shooting alone could be a huge asset), they should pursue a deal.
I just was mentioning he's a FA next year because it might be the reason that Toronto's asking price is low.
I think the only moves we probably see are moving Rose. They’re trying to move Fournier as well.
he has done things lately that a high schooler wouldn't do,last night he basically lost his dribble,on his own accord, which lead to a fast break the other direction.
Yet,he stayed with it and righted the ship in the 4th Q.
we have seen him score 30 plus,and crap out the next game...
Either way,I do believe we are "stuck" with him due to his new contract,so hopefully Thibbs and the coaches can iron out the wrinkles and get him back his confidence
I agree 100% with the comment. I also feel 100% the same way about RJB.
Unbiased NBA Fan
@nonbiasednbafan
League sources peg Gary Trent Jr.’s trade value at a protected first-round or two good second-round picks, along with a matching salary, per @michaelgrange
.
To me he is 100% an upgrade over Grimes who is inconsistent.
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because i dont like Rj or how he plays
I agree 100% with the comment. I also feel 100% the same way about RJB.
you hearing anything Carl?
That CAA cluster
Hopefully Leon earns some of that fat contract he never deserved to begin with.
Randle can be trusted he just can't be the best player or finisher on this kind of team.
He's a rock at PF. Literally one of the very best PFs in the game.
We need to be logical and smart with Randle. Just because he isn't Karl Malone with 20 seconds left doesn't mean he can't be part of a championship core. The guy is an all star caliber player. And we know this.
Not a good look for RJ ducking the media post game. I'm starting to worry about him a little.
I sure AF hope he wouldn't be Malone with 20 seconds left. Mail Fraud sucked in the clutch. Have we forgotten him missing two FGS in the closing seconds of Game 1 of the '97 Finals? Then MJ wins the game with a buzzer beat. And this is after Malone somehow won MVP over MJ that season.
Not a good look for RJ ducking the media post game. I'm starting to worry about him a little.
I don't see this as a new trend for RJ. He was chasing points and talking about focusing on his offensive game last year.
His defense has gotten worse the more he's been in the league, and he no longer draws the toughest defensive assignments. They gave that to Grimes to take pressure off RJ and he's responded by getting lazy at it.
He wants to be an all star so bad that he chased a pretty PPG. The offense is better. The defense is becoming an issue.
Since returning from injury against the Pacers (11 games), RJ Barrett has a defensive rating of 125.8 (This is not a good number at all)
https://twitter.com/JakeBrownNBA/status/1620844157047799808?s=20&t=uCNwHOS8ftWo1wWZ9xRVHw
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Brunson has been better than I could have even hoped for. It'd be a fucking travesty if he isn't named an All Star reserve.
Not a good look for RJ ducking the media post game. I'm starting to worry about him a little.
I don't see this as a new trend for RJ. He was chasing points and talking about focusing on his offensive game last year.
His defense has gotten worse the more he's been in the league, and he no longer draws the toughest defensive assignments. They gave that to Grimes to take pressure off RJ and he's responded by getting lazy at it.
He wants to be an all star so bad that he chased a pretty PPG. The offense is better. The defense is becoming an issue.
I agree that his defense has fallen off. In terms of offense, I'm not sure I totally agree. Every year he has been im the league he has shown strady progress ... until this year. We know he starts off the season slow every year but his 3 point show last year for the majority of the year was really good. He has always been underwhelming when he drives to the basket. For a guy that doesn't get muscled around at the rim for a young player, he sure misses a lot close range shots or just gets blocked. I was hoping he would learn from past mistakes and take another step this year but he hasn't. It sucks. I wasn't as down on him as most. I felt there were a lot of things to build off of but his game has not progressed this year at all. His 3 point shot isn't good. He still makes up his mind too early if he is going to drive or not no matter what. When you watch Brunson, we all see him improvise on instinct what he is going to do. The way he can pump fake and make guys miss him while getting in a better position to take a shot is awesome. I am not saying RJ needs to be at that level. What I am saying is that he should be more natural with the ball. A mid range game would do him wonders.
Since returning from injury against the Pacers (11 games), RJ Barrett has a defensive rating of 125.8 (This is not a good number at all)
https://twitter.com/JakeBrownNBA/status/1620844157047799808?s=20&t=uCNwHOS8ftWo1wWZ9xRVHw
I don't get why he has fallen off so much this year. I'd love to see one of these on Randle's defense lately because he's worse than Barrett.
It's a clinic on ball movement and spacing.
It's the reason the Knicks could never hang in a 7 game series
It's a clinic on ball movement and spacing.
It's the reason the Knicks could never hang in a 7 game series
Knicks cant compete in a 7 game series with Boston because they have 2 star players..
Tatum and Brown are both iso players, they have 10 assists on 22 shots..
The reason the Celtics have taken their team to another level is because 1) they have shooters all of the court and 2) Tatum and Brown became much better passers offense runs through them..
Link - ( New Window )
hahahaha
I wonder how much pressure Dolan is pushing down to make a move.
We heard the same at the deadline last year too
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Knicks also have shown interest in Malik Beasley and also said Knicks have their hands in a bunch of different cookie jars currently
I wonder how much pressure Dolan is pushing down to make a move.
We heard the same at the deadline last year too
Last year i heard specifically Knicks were the most active team on the market and they ended up doing nothing..
This year i am getting bits and pieces but nothing cloae to last year..
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In comment 16021794 nygiants16 said:
It’s quiet 16. All these rumors way to premature. They are trying though.
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because i dont like Rj or how he plays
I agree 100% with the comment. I also feel 100% the same way about RJB.
you hearing anything Carl?
They were very close to acquiring Beasley when Rose first got here fwiw
Why? Just a hunch? How many guys it seemed we were the fronteunner and then....nothing.
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..
Why? Just a hunch? How many guys it seemed we were the fronteunner and then....nothing.
just a hunch/wishful thinking
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In comment 16022420 nygiants16 said:
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..
Why? Just a hunch? How many guys it seemed we were the fronteunner and then....nothing.
just a hunch/wishful thinking
So hope your hunch proves right! Then hopefully trade RJ for that elusive Superstar.
The Knicks just recently beat Boston in OT.
16 (here we go) Dolan wants a shake up. Getting involved again. Was too good to be true. I hope we don’t get suckered in again. Knicks been quiet too long. Mgmt exploring more now than ever. Nothing imminent. Some proud people in front office wanting to stay course. In other wards a complete fucking circus once again.
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..
16 (here we go) Dolan wants a shake up. Getting involved again. Was too good to be true. I hope we don’t get suckered in again. Knicks been quiet too long. Mgmt exploring more now than ever. Nothing imminent. Some proud people in front office wanting to stay course. In other wards a complete fucking circus once again.
Kind of agree with Dolan, not necassarily a shake up, but the team needs a trade, can not jist sit on your hands every deadline, when the team needs a move..
My guess Aller and maybe Perrin are against making a trade..
Wes and Thibs are pushing for one
Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year
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Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.
Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year
That's undoubtedtly true. We can't pick players with all these picks. But, I'd guess that Leon is patient enough to keep kicking the can down the road, turn current picks into future picks and wait. That can be frustrating, but I also kind of respect it. It seems that Jimmy isn't as patient.
It'd be nice to make small moves here and there for guys that help us, but we don't HAVE to force a move that could hurt us in the future.
It'd be nice to make small moves here and there for guys that help us, but we don't HAVE to force a move that could hurt us in the future.
If this was Leon Rose's first or 2nd year, i would agree 100%, but it is his 3rd deadline, he has done nothing the past 2 years when there were clear moves the Knicks needed to make..
Eventually you got to make moves that can effect the future, it may not work, but at the same time sitting on your hands isnt working either..
Now i am not saying throw 3 unprotected to get OG, but at the same time, the clear upgrade needed is a backup wing..go get one, it doesnt have to be a huge move, it can be for Malik Beasley or Josh Richardson but at least your doing something to help improve
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
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In comment 16022510 Heisenberg said:
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Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.
Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year
That's undoubtedtly true. We can't pick players with all these picks. But, I'd guess that Leon is patient enough to keep kicking the can down the road, turn current picks into future picks and wait. That can be frustrating, but I also kind of respect it. It seems that Jimmy isn't as patient.
But this is his 3rd trade deadline and will be his 4th offseason. You eventually have to be bold and make a move one way or the other. You can't just keep kicking the can down the road...
Even if it means taking a step back and trying to build up even more assets. He needs to pick a direction and start heading toward it. He just seems very scared to take a big swing.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
So sit on your hands and just kick the can down the road again? they are a 7th seed currently, can be the 5th or 6th seed, everyone is bunched up exceot for a couple of teams..
You got 2 potential all star players, doesnt seem right to me to at least try and improve the current roster, you never know what could happen
The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
But trade values are going to continue to go up. Thats why I never understood the people balking at the Mitchell cost. If there is another guy like him that becomes available- its going to cost more not less.
More teams are contending for the playoffs now with the play in and free agency is becoming incredibly watered down with the new rules that allow teams to extend.
You have to pay up for quality players and honestly OG is going to cost a lot more than 2 1sts...
The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..
How does that stop them for trading for a star?
Where are his minutes going to come from? We know he's not playing the 4 with this coach and Randle still on the team. You know he's not going to play the 5.
So his minutes are coming from RJ's minutes and Grimes. How many more wins will this team have they add him? He's a really nice role player, but that's not what the Knicks need. And we definitely don't need a player who's biggest asset is his position flexibility with this coach.
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ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.
The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..
How does that stop them for trading for a star?
It doesn't stop them, but it certainly depletes some of their assets. Masai isn't going to accept the worst of the protected picks from the Knicks for OG...
It also depends what the true value of Barrett is when the poison pill runs out.
But who is a likely star that will become available in the next year that's a fit for the Knicks? Things always change but its hard to identify that player right now.
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In comment 16022545 Jan in DC said:
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ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.
The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..
How does that stop them for trading for a star?
It doesn't stop them, but it certainly depletes some of their assets. Masai isn't going to accept the worst of the protected picks from the Knicks for OG...
It also depends what the true value of Barrett is when the poison pill runs out.
But who is a likely star that will become available in the next year that's a fit for the Knicks? Things always change but its hard to identify that player right now.
Booker, i have heard through the grapevine that the new owner may want to start over with that team, james jones is pushing back on that and wants to make 1 more run at it but the new ownwer is supposedly going to be hands on..
I would really like to see how a starting lineup of Mitch, Randle, OG, Grimes, Brunson plays together with Iq and Rj off the bench...
@TheNBACentral
·
2m
The Raptors are looking for young players in trade talks centered around OG Anunoby and Fred VanVleet, per ESPN’s Brian Windhorst
“Guys in the league to put around the core that they have around Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes.”
OG is a role player and I can only see the frustration Knicks fans will have watching him offensively.
If you replace RJ with OG, it will be nothing but the Randle and Brunson show. OG is not a shot creator and will collect dust on the wing as Brunson and Randle play with their food.
The bench will once again be more fun to watch with Quickley, RJ and crew playing ball movement up tempo basketball.
NY16 you put Grimes, OG, Robinson, Randle and Brunson on the court together and you are playing Thibs slow archaic ISO ball a losing formula
OG is a role player and I can only see the frustration Knicks fans will have watching him offensively.
If you replace RJ with OG, it will be nothing but the Randle and Brunson show. OG is not a shot creator and will collect dust on the wing as Brunson and Randle play with their food.
The bench will once again be more fun to watch with Quickley, RJ and crew playing ball movement up tempo basketball.
NY16 you put Grimes, OG, Robinson, Randle and Brunson on the court together and you are playing Thibs slow archaic ISO ball a losing formula
You realize every single team plays iso right? the reason it looks better with other teams, is because they have superstars doing it..
and again Rj cant be the 3rd guy, it doesnt fit, him off the bench allows him to at least play his game..
the 3rd player on any good team is not a scorer, they are a shooter, defender, rebounder, move the ball type of player, not a pound the ball wing who has no midrange and an iffy 3 point shot..
You keep wanting to take Grimes out of the starting lineup, the player that needs to be taken out is Rj because he doesnt fit, not because he is a bad plauer bit because he doesnt fit at as a 3rd option..
OG is a better fit..
They are running the same offense..
You realize every single team plays iso right? the reason it looks better with other teams, is because they have superstars doing it..
this x1000
all the old timers in here yearn to see DeBuschere zipping the ball to Bradley to Clyde and everybody touching the ball every possesion...
It ain't gonna happen. watching the Celtic game last week everyone said the Knicks stopped moving the ball down the stretch and everything became stagnant. The Celtics did the same thing! the last 6 or 7 possessions were completely Tatum isos. The difference is they had Jason Tatum. Mitchell could have been that type of impact player for us, especially combined with Brunson but alas.. Rose chickened out.
Even if you don't have a problem with this stagnant ass offense, we can acknowledge that the ball is way too sticky with the players running the ISOs right?
When are the unprotected picks?
Even if you don't have a problem with this stagnant ass offense, we can acknowledge that the ball is way too sticky with the players running the ISOs right?
Yes, the problem isnt iso, the problem is who is running iso..
also the assist numbers would probably look better if there were better shooters on this team..
The low assists are a combination of sticky fingers at times and bad shooting from the perimiter..
The difference between a great team, a good team and an awful team in the NBA is not the offense they run, its the 2 top players and who can close out a game..
Knicks have 2 very good top players, ita why they are a good team, they are not a great team because they cant close out games..they will here and there but the great teams close out a majority of their games
People complained Knicks ran to much iso, it was the exact same offense but because the Knicks struggled people blamed iso for the issue
no id do 2026 instead of 25..
Because in the offseason after the draft you can then trade 24, 25 top 5 protected Milwaukee pick, 28 and 30 and you still have a couple of the ither protected picks sprinkled in
They run screen and roll, iso with their best scorers and have good shooting. Thats a good NBA offense.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any scenario where the new Phoenix owner comes in and deals Devin Booker? Why would he do that? Don't see any way OKC deals SGA either...
Is there any way with his contract to deal RJ to Toronto?
Not every team runs ISO like we do and they all don't run the same offense. It's like saying everyone's runs shotgun.
Your sets and movements dictate ball movement.
This is not a free flow cutting offense it's a iso, penetrate and distribute offense which is poorly run. On top of it they do not push the ball up court so there tempo is constantly in the bottom of the league.
The 2nd unit might run the same offense but it is predicated on tempo and getting the ball up quickly that's why it is a better looking offense.(because of Quickley and young guys)
They are moving to the open look and getting quicker shots.
It's more like the offense Thibs ran in Chicago with Rose.
Push, penetration and quick shots.
I am surprised that people can defend this offense it's horrible.
No way. 2 unprotected picks would be malpractice. At most one unprotected, 1 lightly protected (preferably this year) and another team's first we own.
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Lets say Toronto comes back and says...we want Obi, McBride, 2 unprotected 1sts and Dallas' 1st. We have to do that?
No way. 2 unprotected picks would be malpractice. At most one unprotected, 1 lightly protected (preferably this year) and another team's first we own.
This is my point. There is a limit for everyone. There are people urging this FO to make a deal. We can't force a team to accept what we are offering. At some point, you have to walk away and say it's too much.
Supposedly Cam voiced his displeasure about not playing a few weeks ago and hasn't seen the court since.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any scenario where the new Phoenix owner comes in and deals Devin Booker? Why would he do that? Don't see any way OKC deals SGA either...
I doubt it either, the frustrating thing is the Knicks could have taken him instead of Knox, or for that matter D. Mitchell instead of Frank.
That’s why I hate to see them trade away assets for essentially role players when they need so much more than that. They are better off using the picks themselves and try to find their own star if they can’t trade for one, but don’t empty the arsenal on role players even if they are decent players,it’s simply not worth it in the long run. Either get those guys on the cheap, trade for a genuine star, or keep building from within and hope one of your picks turns into your own Mitchell
It is not just iso at the end of games. It’s constant my turn your turn from those starting 5 throughout the game
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given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
-Randle in crunchtime moments
-lack of 3 pt shooters around Brunson and randle
The knicks need more knockdown shooters
-Randle in crunchtime moments
-lack of 3 pt shooters around Brunson and randle
The knicks need more knockdown shooters
This^ all of this^
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In comment 16022836 Enzo said:
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given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
That's the point it's a 2 man offense that is predicated on Randall and Bronson creating and making tough shots.
That's why when they play a tough defense that you can take away one or two they're done.
It's hero ball at its finest and it's not sustainable and will get destroyed in the playoffs
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In comment 16022849 Jan in DC said:
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In comment 16022836 Enzo said:
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given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
That's the point it's a 2 man offense that is predicated on Randall and Bronson creating and making tough shots.
That's why when they play a tough defense that you can take away one or two they're done.
It's hero ball at its finest and it's not sustainable and will get destroyed in the playoffs
Every team is a 2 man offense, and then 3 through 10 are complimentary pieces. You habe a scorer off the bench to mix in with your top 2 guys and then everyone aorund them is complimentsry..
Its why Rj doesnt fit with this team..
You look at any great team in this league, their 3rd best player is a shooter, great defender, rebounder and ball mover..
What seperates teams is their top 2 guys..
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In comment 16022860 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16022849 Jan in DC said:
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In comment 16022836 Enzo said:
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given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.
However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
They have 1 ineffecient scorer..
Randle is at 46% an efg% of 53
Brunson is at 47% and an efg% of 51
Their 2 main scorers are effecient..
That's the point it's a 2 man offense that is predicated on Randall and Bronson creating and making tough shots.
That's why when they play a tough defense that you can take away one or two they're done.
It's hero ball at its finest and it's not sustainable and will get destroyed in the playoffs
Every team is a 2 man offense, and then 3 through 10 are complimentary pieces. You habe a scorer off the bench to mix in with your top 2 guys and then everyone aorund them is complimentsry..
Its why Rj doesnt fit with this team..
You look at any great team in this league, their 3rd best player is a shooter, great defender, rebounder and ball mover..
What seperates teams is their top 2 guys..
You're not getting this it's not about you talent it's about utilization and in the moments being able to use the rest of the players around you they don't.
Great players make average players better around them by distributing and moving the ball it's do or die with these two guys.
I have seen countless times where other players get wide open looks of Brunsor Randle iso and they miss the shot.
Players are stagnant throughout the whole game. This offense is my turn your turn my turn your turn.
Tell me how often 4 people touch the ball on a possession on this team.
I mean last year how many times did we see Evan and Randle 2 man game as everyone else stood in the corner . Randle dribble it up.
Don’t get me wrong. The Knicks pieces do not mesh at all. Rj Brunson Randle all want to live in the paint. And grimes is not the knock down spacer some believed him to be. But if you think this is an offense that shares the ball and is “like most other teams” you are out of your mind
Of course it would be better and you are talking about 2 top 3 players in the league that are unselfish ball players that would make the extra pass.
Would this be a good offense for them absolutely not.
Tatum strive in a high assist, wide spacing, move the ball offense currently.
Ja is in a fast pace, heavy drive and kick offense built around what he does well.
Both of these players put their teams in position to be successful to open up space for them to operate.
Which Randle has never done and I have hope for Brunson because right now he is trying to carry the team every night and do too much to validate his contract and put the weight of the city on his shoulders.
Players are stagnant throughout the whole game. This offense is my turn your turn my turn your turn.
Tell me how often 4 people touch the ball on a possession on this team.
I mean last year how many times did we see Evan and Randle 2 man game as everyone else stood in the corner . Randle dribble it up.
Don’t get me wrong. The Knicks pieces do not mesh at all. Rj Brunson Randle all want to live in the paint. And grimes is not the knock down spacer some believed him to be. But if you think this is an offense that shares the ball and is “like most other teams” you are out of your mind
They are 28th in assists for 2 reasons, they do not habe knock down shooters and there are times Randle and Brunson shoot to much..
You put a knock down shooter in Rj's spot and guarantee the assists go up..
You should watch other teams offense and see how they get those open 3s and how the ball movement starts, 9 times out of 10 its off their star being doubled or creating and kickong out..
and the DHO that zrandle ran with fournier is a staple in most NBA offenses, you see it all the time run with Golden State
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Randle with Tatum and Brunson with Ja Morant and they played the exact same offense, they wouldnt be better?
Of course it would be better and you are talking about 2 top 3 players in the league that are unselfish ball players that would make the extra pass.
Would this be a good offense for them absolutely not.
Tatum strive in a high assist, wide spacing, move the ball offense currently.
Ja is in a fast pace, heavy drive and kick offense built around what he does well.
Both of these players put their teams in position to be successful to open up space for them to operate.
Which Randle has never done and I have hope for Brunson because right now he is trying to carry the team every night and do too much to validate his contract and put the weight of the city on his shoulders.
wait you think Tatum scores off assists? seriously? Tatum is one of the more iso heavy players in the league the Celtics run iso for much of the game..
Ja Morant would thrive in Thibs offense just like derrick Rose did..
Randle and Tatum have the same assist numbers..Tatum blows him away scoring wise, its not even a debate but saying Tatum thrives in a ball movement offrnse is laughably wrong
I have seen countless times where other players get wide open looks of Brunsor Randle iso and they miss the shot.
They take 50% of the shots currently and I bet if you looked at what they take by possession that they are on the floor it probably pushes to 70%.
When they pass it out of necessity not to move the ball or get players involved.
BTW I hate adding Brunson to this because I think this offense forces him to play this way instead having other options .
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In comment 16022880 nygiants16 said:
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Randle with Tatum and Brunson with Ja Morant and they played the exact same offense, they wouldnt be better?
Of course it would be better and you are talking about 2 top 3 players in the league that are unselfish ball players that would make the extra pass.
Would this be a good offense for them absolutely not.
Tatum strive in a high assist, wide spacing, move the ball offense currently.
Ja is in a fast pace, heavy drive and kick offense built around what he does well.
Both of these players put their teams in position to be successful to open up space for them to operate.
Which Randle has never done and I have hope for Brunson because right now he is trying to carry the team every night and do too much to validate his contract and put the weight of the city on his shoulders.
wait you think Tatum scores off assists? seriously? Tatum is one of the more iso heavy players in the league the Celtics run iso for much of the game..
Ja Morant would thrive in Thibs offense just like derrick Rose did..
Randle and Tatum have the same assist numbers..Tatum blows him away scoring wise, its not even a debate but saying Tatum thrives in a ball movement offrnse is laughably wrong
The offense Tatum is in is a high assist move the ball offense where everyone on the floor is involved it gives him the spacing to operate and Tatum is not using 20 seconds of the shot clock to score.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
Yup because thats what i said..
Just admit you hate Randle and no matter ehat he does, you are going to shit on it..
If it was Rj playing Randles role you wouldnt be bitching..
Thibs offense isnt perfect but if you had 2 star players the offense would be fine..
But on my list of people that should go. It’s thibs number 1. Front office number 2
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One for the ages, he is a genius.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
Yup because thats what i said..
Just admit you hate Randle and no matter ehat he does, you are going to shit on it..
If it was Rj playing Randles role you wouldnt be bitching..
Thibs offense isnt perfect but if you had 2 star players the offense would be fine..
No hate Thibs and I like Randle if he was used properly and had a coach that didn't let Randle run the team same with Brunson he is being miss used.
RJ get too much of a leash and is not being developed and when he is finally held accountable he has no clue what to do.
It's a coaching issue 100%
I own a F'ing Randle jersey I would love for him to be a great all around player but without accountability. He does what he did on the last play of the game vs.the Lakers.
Whatever the fuck he wants to do.
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In comment 16022904 larryflower37 said:
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One for the ages, he is a genius.
The offense sucks and when teams tighten up on defense in the 4th in close games Randle folds like a cheap card table.
Just like when playoff defense starts.
Yup because thats what i said..
Just admit you hate Randle and no matter ehat he does, you are going to shit on it..
If it was Rj playing Randles role you wouldnt be bitching..
Thibs offense isnt perfect but if you had 2 star players the offense would be fine..
No hate Thibs and I like Randle if he was used properly and had a coach that didn't let Randle run the team same with Brunson he is being miss used.
RJ get too much of a leash and is not being developed and when he is finally held accountable he has no clue what to do.
It's a coaching issue 100%
I own a F'ing Randle jersey I would love for him to be a great all around player but without accountability. He does what he did on the last play of the game vs.the Lakers.
Whatever the fuck he wants to do.
Fair enough