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NFT: Knicks vs Lakers 730 tonight TNT game

AG5686 : 1/31/2023 6:49 pm
LEBRON and AD both supposedly playing tonight
Should be a good game
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I still think Knicks end up with OG  
nygiants16 : 2/1/2023 9:32 pm : link
..
Beasley’s been my white whale.  
bceagle05 : 2/1/2023 9:38 pm : link
And I readily admit he’s a solid bench scorer at best, but I have a feeling he’d be a good Knick. He’s just crazy enough to flourish in this environment.
RE: I still think Knicks end up with OG  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/1/2023 10:16 pm : link
In comment 16022420 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


Why? Just a hunch? How many guys it seemed we were the fronteunner and then....nothing.
RE: RE: I still think Knicks end up with OG  
nygiants16 : 2/1/2023 10:32 pm : link
In comment 16022437 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16022420 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



Why? Just a hunch? How many guys it seemed we were the fronteunner and then....nothing.


just a hunch/wishful thinking
RE: RE: RE: I still think Knicks end up with OG  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/1/2023 10:37 pm : link
In comment 16022440 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16022437 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16022420 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



Why? Just a hunch? How many guys it seemed we were the fronteunner and then....nothing.



just a hunch/wishful thinking


So hope your hunch proves right! Then hopefully trade RJ for that elusive Superstar.
I think I'll be dead before the Knicks win a game in overtime.  
GeofromNJ : 2/1/2023 11:26 pm : link
Irritating as hell!
Toronto loses again (to Utah).  
bceagle05 : 2/1/2023 11:36 pm : link
23-30 on the year.
RE: I think I'll be dead before the Knicks win a game in overtime.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/2/2023 6:27 am : link
In comment 16022458 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
Irritating as hell!


The Knicks just recently beat Boston in OT.
RE: I still think Knicks end up with OG  
Carl in CT : 2/2/2023 8:01 am : link
In comment 16022420 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..



16 (here we go) Dolan wants a shake up. Getting involved again. Was too good to be true. I hope we don’t get suckered in again. Knicks been quiet too long. Mgmt exploring more now than ever. Nothing imminent. Some proud people in front office wanting to stay course. In other wards a complete fucking circus once again.
RE: RE: I still think Knicks end up with OG  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 8:18 am : link
In comment 16022499 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 16022420 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..




16 (here we go) Dolan wants a shake up. Getting involved again. Was too good to be true. I hope we don’t get suckered in again. Knicks been quiet too long. Mgmt exploring more now than ever. Nothing imminent. Some proud people in front office wanting to stay course. In other wards a complete fucking circus once again.


Kind of agree with Dolan, not necassarily a shake up, but the team needs a trade, can not jist sit on your hands every deadline, when the team needs a move..

My guess Aller and maybe Perrin are against making a trade..

Wes and Thibs are pushing for one
You absolutely can sit on your hands and pass on bad deals  
Heisenberg : 2/2/2023 8:35 am : link
Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.
RE: You absolutely can sit on your hands and pass on bad deals  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 8:36 am : link
In comment 16022510 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.


Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year
RE: RE: You absolutely can sit on your hands and pass on bad deals  
Heisenberg : 2/2/2023 8:46 am : link
In comment 16022511 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16022510 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.



Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year


That's undoubtedtly true. We can't pick players with all these picks. But, I'd guess that Leon is patient enough to keep kicking the can down the road, turn current picks into future picks and wait. That can be frustrating, but I also kind of respect it. It seems that Jimmy isn't as patient.
You don't have to do something.  
Kmed6000 : 2/2/2023 8:48 am : link
You have to make smart decisions for the future(we aren't winning anything in the present). That should be the only thing they are focused on.

It'd be nice to make small moves here and there for guys that help us, but we don't HAVE to force a move that could hurt us in the future.
I would argue that almost any deal at this deadline  
Jan in DC : 2/2/2023 8:53 am : link
will probably be a bad deal. There's a bunch of teams that are in the middle of the pack and this offseason inflated trade values by a LOT. If that trend continues, then it's going to be prohibitively expensive for rotational players in the trade market.
RE: You don't have to do something.  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 8:58 am : link
In comment 16022518 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
You have to make smart decisions for the future(we aren't winning anything in the present). That should be the only thing they are focused on.

It'd be nice to make small moves here and there for guys that help us, but we don't HAVE to force a move that could hurt us in the future.


If this was Leon Rose's first or 2nd year, i would agree 100%, but it is his 3rd deadline, he has done nothing the past 2 years when there were clear moves the Knicks needed to make..

Eventually you got to make moves that can effect the future, it may not work, but at the same time sitting on your hands isnt working either..

Now i am not saying throw 3 unprotected to get OG, but at the same time, the clear upgrade needed is a backup wing..go get one, it doesnt have to be a huge move, it can be for Malik Beasley or Josh Richardson but at least your doing something to help improve
I don't understand why they don't move off Reddish.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/2/2023 9:10 am : link
Holding him and not playing him does nothing.
I don't agree deals need to be made  
larryflower37 : 2/2/2023 9:12 am : link
Outside of recovery some value for Cam.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player
RE: RE: RE: You absolutely can sit on your hands and pass on bad deals  
TyreeHelmet : 2/2/2023 9:22 am : link
In comment 16022515 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 16022511 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 16022510 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


Not doing that is how the Knicks have been the worst team in basketball for 20 years.



Sure pass on bad deals, but eventually you got to do something, you cant just sit on your hands and do nothing every single year



That's undoubtedtly true. We can't pick players with all these picks. But, I'd guess that Leon is patient enough to keep kicking the can down the road, turn current picks into future picks and wait. That can be frustrating, but I also kind of respect it. It seems that Jimmy isn't as patient.


But this is his 3rd trade deadline and will be his 4th offseason. You eventually have to be bold and make a move one way or the other. You can't just keep kicking the can down the road...

Even if it means taking a step back and trying to build up even more assets. He needs to pick a direction and start heading toward it. He just seems very scared to take a big swing.
RE: I don't agree deals need to be made  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 9:30 am : link
In comment 16022535 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Outside of recovery some value for Cam.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player


So sit on your hands and just kick the can down the road again? they are a 7th seed currently, can be the 5th or 6th seed, everyone is bunched up exceot for a couple of teams..

You got 2 potential all star players, doesnt seem right to me to at least try and improve the current roster, you never know what could happen
If you can make a deal on the margins...  
Jan in DC : 2/2/2023 9:34 am : link
ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.

The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.
RE: I don't agree deals need to be made  
TyreeHelmet : 2/2/2023 9:34 am : link
In comment 16022535 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Outside of recovery some value for Cam.
Fournier and Rose should be moved but are not critical.
Everyone wants a 3-D wing right not might not be the time to over pay for one.
I am not an OG fan especially at 2 firsts.
Beasley brings flat out 3pt shooting which this team needs but is another frustrating player


But trade values are going to continue to go up. Thats why I never understood the people balking at the Mitchell cost. If there is another guy like him that becomes available- its going to cost more not less.

More teams are contending for the playoffs now with the play in and free agency is becoming incredibly watered down with the new rules that allow teams to extend.

You have to pay up for quality players and honestly OG is going to cost a lot more than 2 1sts...
RE: If you can make a deal on the margins...  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 9:35 am : link
In comment 16022545 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.

The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.


I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..

How does that stop them for trading for a star?
If OG is definitely going to cost more than 2 1sts  
Jan in DC : 2/2/2023 9:37 am : link
than you don't do it. It's as easy as that.

Where are his minutes going to come from? We know he's not playing the 4 with this coach and Randle still on the team. You know he's not going to play the 5.

So his minutes are coming from RJ's minutes and Grimes. How many more wins will this team have they add him? He's a really nice role player, but that's not what the Knicks need. And we definitely don't need a player who's biggest asset is his position flexibility with this coach.
RE: RE: If you can make a deal on the margins...  
TyreeHelmet : 2/2/2023 9:41 am : link
In comment 16022548 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16022545 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.

The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.



I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..

How does that stop them for trading for a star?


It doesn't stop them, but it certainly depletes some of their assets. Masai isn't going to accept the worst of the protected picks from the Knicks for OG...

It also depends what the true value of Barrett is when the poison pill runs out.

But who is a likely star that will become available in the next year that's a fit for the Knicks? Things always change but its hard to identify that player right now.
RE: RE: RE: If you can make a deal on the margins...  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 9:44 am : link
In comment 16022554 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 16022548 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 16022545 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


ok, but they definitely should not be trading draft capital for someone who isn't moving the needle.

The only move that truly matters is one for a star and you can't do anything to jeopardize that.



I get what your saying, but lets say they trade Obi and Rose with 1 unprotected and 2 protected picks for OG..

How does that stop them for trading for a star?



It doesn't stop them, but it certainly depletes some of their assets. Masai isn't going to accept the worst of the protected picks from the Knicks for OG...

It also depends what the true value of Barrett is when the poison pill runs out.

But who is a likely star that will become available in the next year that's a fit for the Knicks? Things always change but its hard to identify that player right now.


Booker, i have heard through the grapevine that the new owner may want to start over with that team, james jones is pushing back on that and wants to make 1 more run at it but the new ownwer is supposedly going to be hands on..

I would really like to see how a starting lineup of Mitch, Randle, OG, Grimes, Brunson plays together with Iq and Rj off the bench...
16  
Carl in CT : 2/2/2023 10:16 am : link
Also as I’ve proven to some here , my connections are on the agency side. So I don’t get a lot of non CAA stuff or mgt stuff (not connected enough). I would think AJR has some connections on mgt side (not agency) he/she hasn’t said but our total disagreement on DJ (agency client) who he hates with a passion makes me think that. He has been silent so I would think he hasn’t heard anything that’s not already in papers or on internet.
Booker or SGA  
Carl in CT : 2/2/2023 10:18 am : link
Are the only two that come to mind that I could get over the Mitchell mess over. We can only dream a backcourt with one of them and Brunson.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/2/2023 10:31 am : link
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
2m
The Raptors are looking for young players in trade talks centered around OG Anunoby and Fred VanVleet, per ESPN’s Brian Windhorst

“Guys in the league to put around the core that they have around Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes.”
No one rumored to be available  
larryflower37 : 2/2/2023 10:43 am : link
Makes this Knicks team much better.
OG is a role player and I can only see the frustration Knicks fans will have watching him offensively.
If you replace RJ with OG, it will be nothing but the Randle and Brunson show. OG is not a shot creator and will collect dust on the wing as Brunson and Randle play with their food.
The bench will once again be more fun to watch with Quickley, RJ and crew playing ball movement up tempo basketball.
NY16 you put Grimes, OG, Robinson, Randle and Brunson on the court together and you are playing Thibs slow archaic ISO ball a losing formula
RE: No one rumored to be available  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 10:55 am : link
In comment 16022641 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Makes this Knicks team much better.
OG is a role player and I can only see the frustration Knicks fans will have watching him offensively.
If you replace RJ with OG, it will be nothing but the Randle and Brunson show. OG is not a shot creator and will collect dust on the wing as Brunson and Randle play with their food.
The bench will once again be more fun to watch with Quickley, RJ and crew playing ball movement up tempo basketball.
NY16 you put Grimes, OG, Robinson, Randle and Brunson on the court together and you are playing Thibs slow archaic ISO ball a losing formula


You realize every single team plays iso right? the reason it looks better with other teams, is because they have superstars doing it..

and again Rj cant be the 3rd guy, it doesnt fit, him off the bench allows him to at least play his game..

the 3rd player on any good team is not a scorer, they are a shooter, defender, rebounder, move the ball type of player, not a pound the ball wing who has no midrange and an iffy 3 point shot..

You keep wanting to take Grimes out of the starting lineup, the player that needs to be taken out is Rj because he doesnt fit, not because he is a bad plauer bit because he doesnt fit at as a 3rd option..

OG is a better fit..
The ball doesnt move better with the bench unit  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 10:56 am : link
its the same offense, rj and Quick have the ball and they create..The reason you like it is because its Rj and Quick and not randle..

They are running the same offense..
RE: RE: No one rumored to be available  
Stu11 : 2/2/2023 11:21 am : link
In comment 16022659 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

You realize every single team plays iso right? the reason it looks better with other teams, is because they have superstars doing it..

this x1000
all the old timers in here yearn to see DeBuschere zipping the ball to Bradley to Clyde and everybody touching the ball every possesion...
It ain't gonna happen. watching the Celtic game last week everyone said the Knicks stopped moving the ball down the stretch and everything became stagnant. The Celtics did the same thing! the last 6 or 7 possessions were completely Tatum isos. The difference is they had Jason Tatum. Mitchell could have been that type of impact player for us, especially combined with Brunson but alas.. Rose chickened out.
To the guys that want this front office to make a move...  
Kmed6000 : 2/2/2023 11:24 am : link
Lets say Toronto comes back and says...we want Obi, McBride, 2 unprotected 1sts and Dallas' 1st. We have to do that?
I don't believe  
Jan in DC : 2/2/2023 11:25 am : link
that other teams are running ISO as much as we do. Even if they do, we're in the bottom of the league in assisted buckets, so we're not spraying the ball out from these ISO opportunities.

Even if you don't have a problem with this stagnant ass offense, we can acknowledge that the ball is way too sticky with the players running the ISOs right?
RE: To the guys that want this front office to make a move...  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 11:26 am : link
In comment 16022719 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
Lets say Toronto comes back and says...we want Obi, McBride, 2 unprotected 1sts and Dallas' 1st. We have to do that?


When are the unprotected picks?
RE: I don't believe  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 11:29 am : link
In comment 16022724 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
that other teams are running ISO as much as we do. Even if they do, we're in the bottom of the league in assisted buckets, so we're not spraying the ball out from these ISO opportunities.

Even if you don't have a problem with this stagnant ass offense, we can acknowledge that the ball is way too sticky with the players running the ISOs right?


Yes, the problem isnt iso, the problem is who is running iso..

also the assist numbers would probably look better if there were better shooters on this team..

The low assists are a combination of sticky fingers at times and bad shooting from the perimiter..

The difference between a great team, a good team and an awful team in the NBA is not the offense they run, its the 2 top players and who can close out a game..

Knicks have 2 very good top players, ita why they are a good team, they are not a great team because they cant close out games..they will here and there but the great teams close out a majority of their games
Lets say  
Kmed6000 : 2/2/2023 11:30 am : link
2023 and 2025. You'd do that huh?
Perfect example was the recent Milwaukee vs Knicks game  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 11:34 am : link
Down the stretch both teams were running the exact same play, Holiday hit clutch 3s and the Knicks did not, Milwaukee made the right read, the Knicks did not..

People complained Knicks ran to much iso, it was the exact same offense but because the Knicks struggled people blamed iso for the issue
RE: Lets say  
nygiants16 : 2/2/2023 11:35 am : link
In comment 16022733 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
2023 and 2025. You'd do that huh?


no id do 2026 instead of 25..

Because in the offseason after the draft you can then trade 24, 25 top 5 protected Milwaukee pick, 28 and 30 and you still have a couple of the ither protected picks sprinkled in
Iso  
TyreeHelmet : 2/2/2023 11:42 am : link
The iso talk is ridiculous. Watch around the league- do you think the best teams are running some princeton based motion offense? Come on.

They run screen and roll, iso with their best scorers and have good shooting. Thats a good NBA offense.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any scenario where the new Phoenix owner comes in and deals Devin Booker? Why would he do that? Don't see any way OKC deals SGA either...

Is there any way with his contract to deal RJ to Toronto?
We go from ISO to the Princeton offense  
larryflower37 : 2/2/2023 12:07 pm : link
That a big leap.
Not every team runs ISO like we do and they all don't run the same offense. It's like saying everyone's runs shotgun.
Your sets and movements dictate ball movement.
This is not a free flow cutting offense it's a iso, penetrate and distribute offense which is poorly run. On top of it they do not push the ball up court so there tempo is constantly in the bottom of the league.
The 2nd unit might run the same offense but it is predicated on tempo and getting the ball up quickly that's why it is a better looking offense.(because of Quickley and young guys)
They are moving to the open look and getting quicker shots.
It's more like the offense Thibs ran in Chicago with Rose.
Push, penetration and quick shots.

I am surprised that people can defend this offense it's horrible.
RE: To the guys that want this front office to make a move...  
Strahan91 : 2/2/2023 12:09 pm : link
In comment 16022719 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
Lets say Toronto comes back and says...we want Obi, McBride, 2 unprotected 1sts and Dallas' 1st. We have to do that?

No way. 2 unprotected picks would be malpractice. At most one unprotected, 1 lightly protected (preferably this year) and another team's first we own.
RE: RE: To the guys that want this front office to make a move...  
Kmed6000 : 2/2/2023 12:17 pm : link
In comment 16022787 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16022719 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


Lets say Toronto comes back and says...we want Obi, McBride, 2 unprotected 1sts and Dallas' 1st. We have to do that?


No way. 2 unprotected picks would be malpractice. At most one unprotected, 1 lightly protected (preferably this year) and another team's first we own.


This is my point. There is a limit for everyone. There are people urging this FO to make a deal. We can't force a team to accept what we are offering. At some point, you have to walk away and say it's too much.
RE: I don't understand why they don't move off Reddish.  
Anakim : 2/2/2023 12:37 pm : link
In comment 16022534 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Holding him and not playing him does nothing.


Supposedly Cam voiced his displeasure about not playing a few weeks ago and hasn't seen the court since.
"I am surprised that people can defend this offense it's horrible."  
Enzo : 2/2/2023 12:39 pm : link
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.

However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.
Not for nothing, but as flawed as this roster is (thanks Leon),  
Anakim : 2/2/2023 12:41 pm : link
Could anyone see this team going on a Hawks-type of run if they can Thibs and replace him with, say Quin Snyder?
RE:  
Jan in DC : 2/2/2023 12:47 pm : link
In comment 16022836 Enzo said:
Quote:
given the fact they're currently ranked 6th in the league on offense, I'd say you're overstating things just a bit.

However, there are clearly some legit concerns about late game lineups and execution.


That ranking is inflated by the second chance points afforded to them by Mitch. We have a lot of inefficient scorers on this team and our offensive rebounding masks a lot of issues with the offensive system in general.
RE: Iso  
steve in ky : 2/2/2023 12:50 pm : link
In comment 16022746 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any scenario where the new Phoenix owner comes in and deals Devin Booker? Why would he do that? Don't see any way OKC deals SGA either...



I doubt it either, the frustrating thing is the Knicks could have taken him instead of Knox, or for that matter D. Mitchell instead of Frank.

That’s why I hate to see them trade away assets for essentially role players when they need so much more than that. They are better off using the picks themselves and try to find their own star if they can’t trade for one, but don’t empty the arsenal on role players even if they are decent players,it’s simply not worth it in the long run. Either get those guys on the cheap, trade for a genuine star, or keep building from within and hope one of your picks turns into your own Mitchell
The knicks have no motion. They do the same dribble  
Knickstape : 2/2/2023 12:50 pm : link
Hand off at the top of the key over and over that’s it. Grimes and rj are constantly spaced on the 3pt line and don’t ever cut. They are designated to the corners. Schematically the offense is very poorly put together

It is not just iso at the end of games. It’s constant my turn your turn from those starting 5 throughout the game
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