coming out about how he was not well received back in New England. Dabbs changed the culture which I am hoping will lure quality FAs to want to sign with the team
“teammates didn't care who Judge's successor would be. They were determined to change the team's narrative.
‘We had already built that mindset of, “All right, we're about to change this, and we don't care what coaches come in the building, we’ve got to change this s--- now.”’
I'm sure he meant well, and he may learn over time, but Shoen and Daboll just seem to more naturally be able to put together a winning culture and winning atmosphere. The same issues happen in corporate culture all the time. But its not easy, so credit Daboll/Shoen with doing that.
“ Under Judge, McKinney said players resented showing up early and were only interested in going to the facility if they had to.”
You know what makes highly competitive people resent showing up? When it involves wasting their time.
Suggests there was precious little coaching going on under Judge, consistent with other reports.
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All those assistants who were successful college coaches thought they would be able to join the Giants and retire from coaching and Judge let them do it.
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the good culture with the coaching staff contributing to a much better season. In hindsight, remarkable how badly the Giants whiffed on this with prior regimes of recent memory
I'm glad these details are coming out. I hate to admit it, but I was still on his bandwagon until the day he was fired (what do I know...)
I try to give the benefit of the doubt typically, he had me hook, line and sinker initially. I tried to see the positive in him until about 3/4 of the way through his last season, then I started waffling. After the QB sneaks I completely lost most respect I had for him. And after the "clown show" press conference it was pretty clear he needed to go.
...get the top job and fall on their ass. Spectacularly.
Judge, on the other hand, is still searching for the key to unlock the freezer where the stolen strawberries were. Dude needs PTSD counseling following his time in East Rutherford.
Say less and smile more. Bad mouthing your previous coach is not smart, productive or justified. Some things need to be said and some don’t. I hope these guys pipe down, worried about Thibs, he is a social media person.
if the reason Belichik endorsed him so strongly is that he has the same demeanor as Bill. Belichik could get away with it because of his history of success, but Judge couldn't because there was no history to rely on.
if the reason Belichik endorsed him so strongly is that he has the same demeanor as Bill. Belichik could get away with it because of his history of success, but Judge couldn't because there was no history to rely on.
Belichick isn't like that with players, just the media. Many former players, both from his time with the Giants as well as the Patriots, have said so.
Also, I hardly think Belichick "screwed" the Giants. If he didn't actually think highly of Judge, why did he immediately take him back? It seems more likely that he simply misjudged him, the way George Young misjudged Ray Handley.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
Say less and smile more. Bad mouthing your previous coach is not smart, productive or justified. Some things need to be said and some don’t. I hope these guys pipe down, worried about Thibs, he is a social media person.
joe really lost me for not pulling Daniel out against the rams, week after he had what looked to be a concussion when he was slammed at goal line by cowboys. the following week and throwing INTs. he was still feeling it it looked to me
if the reason Belichik endorsed him so strongly is that he has the same demeanor as Bill. Belichik could get away with it because of his history of success, but Judge couldn't because there was no history to rely on.
Belichick isn't like that with players, just the media. Many former players, both from his time with the Giants as well as the Patriots, have said so.
Also, I hardly think Belichick "screwed" the Giants. If he didn't actually think highly of Judge, why did he immediately take him back? It seems more likely that he simply misjudged him, the way George Young misjudged Ray Handley.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
had several conversations with BB regarding Judge.
I turned on him after the second game last season against WFT on Thursday night but I really didn't like what I was hearing that offseason.
Too much passing league talk and I believe he had a lot of say in personnel his second season with Dave on his way out. Giants issues were mostly rooted on fronts and had been for years. Then the overemphasis of getting special team players and that unit not being so special.
Sometime you just never know. High pressure situations can impact people differently and I think he was just overwhelmed as it played out. This would also impact his relationships with players and coaches imv.
coach prospect along with Shurmur and Mcadoo. I did warm up to him a bit after his first "successful" season, and was of the belief he should get a 3rd well into his second season, as switching a head coach every two years is problematic.
But then kneeling and press conference meltdowns pretty much sealed it and told you all you needed to know about him.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
Completely agree. I was cautiously optimistic simply because it was a change of direction, but I had big questions about his resume. There was a lot of squinting to make him look like the next John Harbaugh just because of the special teams coach angle.
including Bill Belichick. If the genius coach who originally hired him and then re-hired him to help run his offense into the ground thought he was a good coach, I'm not going to slam Giants fans who hoped he might be the real deal.
including Bill Belichick. If the genius coach who originally hired him and then re-hired him to help run his offense into the ground thought he was a good coach, I'm not going to slam Giants fans who hoped he might be the real deal.
A lot of coaches need a Brady/Burrow type co-offensive coordinator.
if the reason Belichik endorsed him so strongly is that he has the same demeanor as Bill. Belichik could get away with it because of his history of success, but Judge couldn't because there was no history to rely on.
Belichick isn't like that with players, just the media. Many former players, both from his time with the Giants as well as the Patriots, have said so.
Also, I hardly think Belichick "screwed" the Giants. If he didn't actually think highly of Judge, why did he immediately take him back? It seems more likely that he simply misjudged him, the way George Young misjudged Ray Handley.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
And many former players have complained about his heavy-handed approach after they left, including Brady. Many others have stated how "demanding" Belichik and his staff are, after leaving.
I think history has shown players are more willing to accept such an approach if there is a track record behind it. When a coach tries to be a disciplinarian and has no record of success to support the approach, many players won't feel it's justified, especially today's pampered athletes who call their head coach by their first name and don't think they need to be told how to act. Remember the revolt over Coughlin's be 5-minute early rule?
One of the other differences is that it would appear Daboll really knows football. Judge likes to think he does, but most of his "football talk" BS is all about catch phrases instead of actual football. Daboll doesn't really have any catch phrases, he just talks ball.
I mean that in a good way. I hoped 2022 would have a 1997 feel to it and luckily it did, with the added bonus of the playoff win, against the Vikings no less.
Reeves was obviously a better HC than Judge but the Giants were listing and struggling heading into 97 much like this 2021-2022 team was. Fassel breathed life in to the franchise and a big reason why was he brought out the best in the stars. HE let them rise to the top thanks to good communications.
would do with this group of players on the Giants? or maybe the NFL in general now.
I know Tom changed over time with the Giants and success certainly makes it easier. But, I don't know if a Patton style approach (for lack of a better term) works with current players.
RE: How do you think Tom Coughlin's coaching approach
would do with this group of players on the Giants? or maybe the NFL in general now.
I know Tom changed over time with the Giants and success certainly makes it easier. But, I don't know if a Patton style approach (for lack of a better term) works with current players.
I think his second go-round with Jax as VP of football ops after he left the Giants tell us how he would have done: not too well. That team was on the verge of mutiny when he was canned.
really makes me think that Jason Garrett got a bum rap among fans and Giants management. He may not have been an outstanding offensive mind, but he wasn't as bad as many of us thought a year ago...
Playing a superior Steelers team we got a decent drive going with a few Saquon runs but Judge punts on 4th and short from the PIT 40ish then gets a gift muff, plays it conservative then is content with a 21 yd FG and a 3-0 lead. Not a formula for beating a better team. Those kind of decisions became a feature of his tenure.
really makes me think that Jason Garrett got a bum rap among fans and Giants management. He may not have been an outstanding offensive mind, but he wasn't as bad as many of us thought a year ago...
No, he was bad. There was no such thing as a route concept. There is a reason people were all over Jones last year saying he can't go through his progressions. There were no progression. All hitches doesn't allow you to go from one read to the next and how many times did we see all hitches?
Judge was a bad HC with bad results or is he angry because Judge was bad at handling people? On paper the assistant coaches he brought in should have done well, but they did not. Of course one of the weird things he did was bring in special team players to fill in roles as position players. When signing a backup his priority was that they be a special teamer.
He sure had me fooled, like the rest of youse guys/gals. Steve Tisch may not know football, but he would know managing people. He probably recognized Judge was bad at managing people and finally had had enough when he stepped in to end it - thank heavens
more talented really OL of Skura, Slder, Price & Hernandez and Thomas struggling rookie year?
not to mention the players lost to injuries
Solder, for all of his faults, was better than what we saw from Evan Neal as a rookie. Will Hernandez graded out higher than Glowinski this season. Thomas 2022 performance was definitely a big upgrade, but I’m not really sure about the rest of the line. They were terrible then, and they’re still terrible now.
“ Under Judge, McKinney said players resented showing up early and were only interested in going to the facility if they had to.”
You know what makes highly competitive people resent showing up? When it involves wasting their time.
Suggests there was precious little coaching going on under Judge, consistent with other reports.
Based on this past season's bye week incident, I'm not quite ready to just take this as a positive or evidence of leadership from McKinney. I think it's also possible that McKinney doesn't particularly like having the team suggest how he spends his time beyond what is mandatory, regardless of who the head coach is.
‘We had already built that mindset of, “All right, we're about to change this, and we don't care what coaches come in the building, we’ve got to change this s--- now.”’
Love this team
You know what makes highly competitive people resent showing up? When it involves wasting their time.
Suggests there was precious little coaching going on under Judge, consistent with other reports.
McKinney def is a piece going forward. If it means we have to let love go to resign him, then we should do it. He's a leader and this team needs it.
You know what makes highly competitive people resent showing up? When it involves wasting their time.
Suggests there was precious little coaching going on under Judge, consistent with other reports.
All those assistants who were successful college coaches thought they would be able to join the Giants and retire from coaching and Judge let them do it.
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I try to give the benefit of the doubt typically, he had me hook, line and sinker initially. I tried to see the positive in him until about 3/4 of the way through his last season, then I started waffling. After the QB sneaks I completely lost most respect I had for him. And after the "clown show" press conference it was pretty clear he needed to go.
Judge, on the other hand, is still searching for the key to unlock the freezer where the stolen strawberries were. Dude needs PTSD counseling following his time in East Rutherford.
no, HC is going to say nice things about his assistants. Pro-forma. BB was probably as shocked as anyone when Mara hired him.
Belichick isn't like that with players, just the media. Many former players, both from his time with the Giants as well as the Patriots, have said so.
Also, I hardly think Belichick "screwed" the Giants. If he didn't actually think highly of Judge, why did he immediately take him back? It seems more likely that he simply misjudged him, the way George Young misjudged Ray Handley.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
Oh no! A player had an opinion. The horror!
Relax lol.
Quote:
if the reason Belichik endorsed him so strongly is that he has the same demeanor as Bill. Belichik could get away with it because of his history of success, but Judge couldn't because there was no history to rely on.
Belichick isn't like that with players, just the media. Many former players, both from his time with the Giants as well as the Patriots, have said so.
Also, I hardly think Belichick "screwed" the Giants. If he didn't actually think highly of Judge, why did he immediately take him back? It seems more likely that he simply misjudged him, the way George Young misjudged Ray Handley.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
This place was in full bloom love with Judge.
I turned on him after the second game last season against WFT on Thursday night but I really didn't like what I was hearing that offseason.
Too much passing league talk and I believe he had a lot of say in personnel his second season with Dave on his way out. Giants issues were mostly rooted on fronts and had been for years. Then the overemphasis of getting special team players and that unit not being so special.
Sometime you just never know. High pressure situations can impact people differently and I think he was just overwhelmed as it played out. This would also impact his relationships with players and coaches imv.
But then kneeling and press conference meltdowns pretty much sealed it and told you all you needed to know about him.
Completely agree. I was cautiously optimistic simply because it was a change of direction, but I had big questions about his resume. There was a lot of squinting to make him look like the next John Harbaugh just because of the special teams coach angle.
A lot of coaches need a Brady/Burrow type co-offensive coordinator.
Quote:
if the reason Belichik endorsed him so strongly is that he has the same demeanor as Bill. Belichik could get away with it because of his history of success, but Judge couldn't because there was no history to rely on.
Belichick isn't like that with players, just the media. Many former players, both from his time with the Giants as well as the Patriots, have said so.
Also, I hardly think Belichick "screwed" the Giants. If he didn't actually think highly of Judge, why did he immediately take him back? It seems more likely that he simply misjudged him, the way George Young misjudged Ray Handley.
All that said, I think it just as hilarious today as I did at the time that a lot of people here swooned over him solely based on his press conferences. I will cop to being optimistic about his hiring and fairly pleased with his first season, but I've never understood why anyone places any importance on press conference dog and pony shows.
And many former players have complained about his heavy-handed approach after they left, including Brady. Many others have stated how "demanding" Belichik and his staff are, after leaving.
I think history has shown players are more willing to accept such an approach if there is a track record behind it. When a coach tries to be a disciplinarian and has no record of success to support the approach, many players won't feel it's justified, especially today's pampered athletes who call their head coach by their first name and don't think they need to be told how to act. Remember the revolt over Coughlin's be 5-minute early rule?
Reeves was obviously a better HC than Judge but the Giants were listing and struggling heading into 97 much like this 2021-2022 team was. Fassel breathed life in to the franchise and a big reason why was he brought out the best in the stars. HE let them rise to the top thanks to good communications.
I know Tom changed over time with the Giants and success certainly makes it easier. But, I don't know if a Patton style approach (for lack of a better term) works with current players.
I know Tom changed over time with the Giants and success certainly makes it easier. But, I don't know if a Patton style approach (for lack of a better term) works with current players.
I think his second go-round with Jax as VP of football ops after he left the Giants tell us how he would have done: not too well. That team was on the verge of mutiny when he was canned.
Friggin' Blake Bortles!
No, he was bad. There was no such thing as a route concept. There is a reason people were all over Jones last year saying he can't go through his progressions. There were no progression. All hitches doesn't allow you to go from one read to the next and how many times did we see all hitches?
He sure had me fooled, like the rest of youse guys/gals. Steve Tisch may not know football, but he would know managing people. He probably recognized Judge was bad at managing people and finally had had enough when he stepped in to end it - thank heavens
Judge also had an undertalented team and a ton of injuries.
I'm okay with players coming out about former coaches, but they tend to omit what things the players did wrong.
RE: Coughlin changing - he did but some of the players did too. It was not all on TC.
People tend to be more receptive to the things that confirm their opinions.
Judge also had an undertalented team and a ton of injuries.
I'm okay with players coming out about former coaches, but they tend to omit what things the players did wrong.
RE: Coughlin changing - he did but some of the players did too. It was not all on TC.
People tend to be more receptive to the things that confirm their opinions.
Judge had a more talented team than the one that got us 9.5 regular season wins and a playoff win this year.
link - ( New Window )
not to mention the players lost to injuries
not to mention the players lost to injuries
Solder, for all of his faults, was better than what we saw from Evan Neal as a rookie. Will Hernandez graded out higher than Glowinski this season. Thomas 2022 performance was definitely a big upgrade, but I’m not really sure about the rest of the line. They were terrible then, and they’re still terrible now.
You know what makes highly competitive people resent showing up? When it involves wasting their time.
Suggests there was precious little coaching going on under Judge, consistent with other reports.
Based on this past season's bye week incident, I'm not quite ready to just take this as a positive or evidence of leadership from McKinney. I think it's also possible that McKinney doesn't particularly like having the team suggest how he spends his time beyond what is mandatory, regardless of who the head coach is.
It's easy to get fooled when you repeatedly refuse to exhibit even the minimum level of skepticism about the Giants.