JS- "Negotiations haven't started, but we want Daniel back"

who said that an agreement was close leading up the the Vikings playoff game?

So I'd take that as a true statement.

In comment 16022021 FranknWeezer said:

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So I'd take that as a true statement.

Right, but is JS making the true statement haha

In comment 16022020 Sean said:

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who said that an agreement was close leading up the the Vikings playoff game?

Yes, I remember the posters name and have been searching him a bit. Not sure how plugged he actually was...but we'll see how it plays out.

In comment 16022023 The Dude said:

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In comment 16022021 FranknWeezer said: Quote: So I'd take that as a true statement. Right, but is JS making the true statement haha

I'm sure the Jones haters will imagine some reason why Schoen is playing mind games with us.

In comment 16022024 The Dude said:

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In comment 16022020 Sean said: Quote: who said that an agreement was close leading up the the Vikings playoff game? Yes, I remember the posters name and have been searching him a bit. Not sure how plugged he actually was...but we'll see how it plays out.

Wasn't that something that Boomer Esiason was saying? See clip.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 16022037 FranknWeezer said:

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In comment 16022024 The Dude said: Quote: In comment 16022020 Sean said: Quote: who said that an agreement was close leading up the the Vikings playoff game? Yes, I remember the posters name and have been searching him a bit. Not sure how plugged he actually was...but we'll see how it plays out. Wasn't that something that Boomer Esiason was saying? See clip. Link - ( New Window )

Yeah, it was right around the same time (coincidence? idk)

But it's possible they exchanged numbers, and agent is testing waters at the senior bowl and the upcoming combine.

are probably 1 out of 50.

They likely sign Jones long term. They then either tag Barkley or sign him long term as well.

In comment 16022020 Sean said:

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who said that an agreement was close leading up the the Vikings playoff game?

yes, but i think it's probably safe to say there wasn't anything to that.

i think in general the fanfic expectation from the outside that player extensions are a constant daily dialogue ebb'ing and flowing game to game is wrong. i think (just a guess) in reality it's much more like any other business engagement where there are meetings and proposals exchanged with a lot of dark time in between where the teams are strategizing before going out the door with formal proposals. and once a player receives a formal proposal id imagine there's some time in between where they and their agent consider their appropriate counter and on and on it goes until some kind of real deadline hits and either they are close enough to get something done or they arent.

i think the amount they go in on jones is almost entirely a daboll decision but im sure he values the opinions of shea tierny and mike kafka, and also has a mind to their potential replacements if they get the jobs they are in play for elsewhere. so the giants may not have finalized their own initial offer yet preferring to wait until the staff is locked in so they can be all on the same page. obviously there are other times when teams make quick decisions but right now isn't one of those times, they have 5-6 weeks to figure this out and both sides have indicated there's mutual desire to do so.

is focusing on the Senior Bowl, and both sides have #s in mind, maybe even discussed, but actual pros/cons negotiating hasn’t begun in earnest.
Didn’t the Love negotiations go on during the bye, but broke down? Likely it was more as a negotiation starter but the terms were far apart, otherwise would have gotten done.
Our FO , with a cap amount now known , can set positional value ranges into place, do computer test runs on salaries, do some potential test cuts , and see who and how many re-signings and extensions they can fit in this year, or at least the re-signings, and FA budget.
Negotiations will get serious Monday, after they spend time with the initial evaluating and grading out the Senior Bowl players.

Schoen would lie about the extent (if any) to which he's had conversations with Jones's reps.

In comment 16022024 The Dude said:

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In comment 16022020 Sean said: Quote: who said that an agreement was close leading up the the Vikings playoff game? Yes, I remember the posters name and have been searching him a bit. Not sure how plugged he actually was...but we'll see how it plays out.

DJ shot that down.

Of course, that he developed is a big reason for the success the team had. But, looking back at the offseason and what the prospects and predictions, all of this could not have worked out better. The possible downside we were facing were abysmal. Maybe 6 wins, no QB, very few standouts on the roster. But, now things look a lot brighter. A bunch of players have stepped up. Our coach has proven himself to be a great hire along with the OC and DC. I'm as optimistic as most. Never saw this coming.

they've had preliminary discussions like duration of contract and approximately average annual value and he wouldn't consider that "negotiating". From Shoen's point of view he'd want to get this contract done in time to use the franchise tag in negotiations with Barkely, so does that mean ?end of February?.

to establish a framework as to where each side stands.
As to actual negotiations where sides are sitting across a table hammering out the details, apparently not yet.
That will come shortly.

.

In comment 16022090 BillT said:

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Of course, that he developed is a big reason for the success the team had. But, looking back at the offseason and what the prospects and predictions, all of this could not have worked out better. The possible downside we were facing were abysmal. Maybe 6 wins, no QB, very few standouts on the roster. But, now things look a lot brighter.

I know some disagree, but I am very happy we're not one of the multiple teams that have to try to find a legit starting QB this offseason. Much easier to find a WR than a QB.

I really look forward to us drafting a big time WR and hopefully seeing Jones and the O take another jump next year.

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Schoen: We’re going to get into all that. Again, it takes two. Both sides have got to have those conversations. We haven’t crossed that bridge yet. There’s tools at our disposal. Again, we’ll go through several scenarios. It’s kind of like I mentioned it last year, maybe it was at the combine, with the ‘if, then’ scenarios. You got to go through all those because you don’t know how things are going to fall because it’s negotiating. This is why you love the draft – you turn in the card, and they’re yours. You know what the contract structure is; you know the years. This is where there’s two parties involved, and it’s going to be time consuming. We’ll get together as a staff. We’ll talk through the different options and have those discussions when it’s appropriate.

Bold is added. There is no reason to think that this will quick; a ton of work that the FO and coaching staff have to address.

he has no reason to talk to the media about that so he’s just saying that. I would guess the majority of us on here are employed. If we have the time to discuss Jones at length on here on a daily basis I’m pretty sure the man in charge of the organization who is literally hired to do this for a living is talking to Jones’ and his reps.

There is no way he is going to hit Free Agency. The Giants will tag him and trade him if they don’t want him back. There are too many teams right now that are QB needy teams and not enough QBs. They will get draft picks.

He’s going to be a Giant next year if for no other reason than a lack of options.

is to not believe a single thing anyone says, especially in the weeks and months leading up to the draft and free agency...

Negotiations haven’t started”

As he says - it will be a long process.
Maybe Jones rep floated $40-45 mil per
Maybe Schoen said we’d love to him back for a contract like…

Who the fuck knows
It’s a negotiation. There will be posturing

PYT is a strange autocorrect for out

Is any factor for Schoen, Daboll and Jones in the negotiations.

My guess is the negotiations will come down to the wire, with brinkmanship being the ultimate motivation to get a deal done.

Recall:

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“When they say it's not about money,” GM George Young of the Giants once said, “that means it's all about money.” The first rule is this: When someone says it isn't about the money, it's about the money.

words are easily evasive.

The closer Jones gets to free agency, the more leverage he has. And, the market will evolve. Case in point: Tom Brady retired, taking one QB off the market and reducing the number of available QBs. So time is probably on the agents' side.

In comment 16022150 JonC said:

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words are easily evasive.

Truth. Ignore what they say focus on what they actually do.

Contract length is more important. The Giants don’t want an Alex Smith deal.

it's the FA version of the draft (minus the 'tools'): as decision time nears, the jockeying for the top QBs in the draft gets more intense and the consideration offered tends to rise. Not an exact analogy, but prolly reflects general mindset.

as 81GD alluded to agent leverage, and I suspect the Giants aren't looking to go 4-5 years of 40M AAV right now.

I'm 100% convinced DJ is our QB in some form, be it a long term deal, franchise tag, transition tag, whatever.

I'm much less confident about Saquon.

Which leads me to believe they’d like to lock up Barkley on a team friendly deal while preserving the tag for Jones.

The fact that Schoen hasn’t talked to Jones is encouraging to me. Give it time and remove the emotion.

good, bad, or indifferent. They will say the same things if they love Jones or if they want to move on from Jones, and everything in between. Actions are all that matters.

I am certain they intend to bring him back, the question is in the details of the deal. And I am sure they will have a tough negotiation over that.

In comment 16022289 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I'm 100% convinced DJ is our QB in some form, be it a long term deal, franchise tag, transition tag, whatever. I'm much less confident about Saquon.

Yep. More that Jones Contract gets closer to $35+ mill, the less likely Saquon returns.

In comment 16022190 81_Great_Dane said:

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The closer Jones gets to free agency, the more leverage he has. And, the market will evolve. Case in point: Tom Brady retired, taking one QB off the market and reducing the number of available QBs. So time is probably on the agents' side.

If I'm Team Jones, unless I get a multi-year deal = or > than the NEFT (plus a substantial amount of guaranteed $) from Jints Central before free agency starts, I have no interest in any discussion.

On the other hand, Schoen has two levers at his disposal if these early talks are non-productive: the Transition Tag ($29M+) and the Non-Ex Franchise Tag ($32M+).

I'm probably the only one on the board who prefers the Transition Tag approach. You dare Team Jones to hit the market to find his true market value - instead of guessing - with the ability to match with last look.

If Team Jones gets an offer that is way too expensive, too much guaranteed money, too many years, etc, you wish him well and move on. Sure, you get no compensation like the NEFT, but you also don't overpay, either.

And, let's be honest, we wouldn't be losing elite skills like Pat Mahomes. So, would the loss of Jones really be that punitive? I think not...

On the other hand, if Team Jones gets a deal much more team friendly, you match it and welcome Team Jones back with open arms.

In comment 16022368 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16022190 81_Great_Dane said: Quote: The closer Jones gets to free agency, the more leverage he has. And, the market will evolve. Case in point: Tom Brady retired, taking one QB off the market and reducing the number of available QBs. So time is probably on the agents' side. If I'm Team Jones, unless I get a multi-year deal = or > than the NEFT (plus a substantial amount of guaranteed $) from Jints Central before free agency starts, I have no interest in any discussion. On the other hand, Schoen has two levers at his disposal if these early talks are non-productive: the Transition Tag ($29M+) and the Non-Ex Franchise Tag ($32M+). I'm probably the only one on the board who prefers the Transition Tag approach. You dare Team Jones to hit the market to find his true market value - instead of guessing - with the ability to match with last look. If Team Jones gets an offer that is way too expensive, too much guaranteed money, too many years, etc, you wish him well and move on. Sure, you get no compensation like the NEFT, but you also don't overpay, either. And, let's be honest, we wouldn't be losing elite skills like Pat Mahomes. So, would the loss of Jones really be that punitive? I think not... On the other hand, if Team Jones gets a deal much more team friendly, you match it and welcome Team Jones back with open arms.

Aren't the only differences between the transition tag and non-exclusive franchise tag, $3M in salary plus you get two first rounders if someone offers a deal you don't want to match? Why wouldn't you do that instead of the transition tag?

$3M isn't all that much, and the chance to get two first rounders is enticing. What am I missing here?

Plus, I think there has only been one QB in history on transition tag. Am I remembering correctly? Was it Cousins?

...so, now we let the QB walk because he's no Mahomes?
BRILLIANT!!

I for one am glad that team bw is nowhere near jints central!

Yes, the TT is cheaper by $3M.

IMV, the TT will invite more teams to negotiate with the player because they don't have to pay the steep price of two first rounders. And I don't think any team is going to put that compensation at risk for Jones.

So, I'd be willing to risk losing Jones without comp because I think there is a better chance any deal Jones gets could be much cheaper than any of us imagine. And we could match that deal in our favor.

More unconventional for sure, but, again, I think it's a better tool to gauge the real market value.

In comment 16022397 Bill E said:

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...so, now we let the QB walk because he's no Mahomes? BRILLIANT!! I for one am glad that team bw is nowhere near jints central!

You can’t make that shit up 😂

In comment 16022399 bw in dc said:

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Yes, the TT is cheaper by $3M. IMV, the TT will invite more teams to negotiate with the player because they don't have to pay the steep price of two first rounders. And I don't think any team is going to put that compensation at risk for Jones. So, I'd be willing to risk losing Jones without comp because I think there is a better chance any deal Jones gets could be much cheaper than any of us imagine. And we could match that deal in our favor. More unconventional for sure, but, again, I think it's a better tool to gauge the real market value.

I get your logic. Many here are convinced there is a team that will definitely give to picks. It would be notable if no team had an offer for Jones on the NEFT, and it would give a lot of leverage to Schoen.

In comment 16022411 No1MDGiantsFan said:

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In comment 16022397 Bill E said: Quote: ...so, now we let the QB walk because he's no Mahomes? BRILLIANT!! I for one am glad that team bw is nowhere near jints central! You can’t make that shit up 😂

I know. It's hilarious. Why would someone get rid of a QB they were convinced couldn't win a championship so they could search for an elite QB? Har har, they must be rubes.

In comment 16022418 Producer said:

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In comment 16022411 No1MDGiantsFan said: Quote: In comment 16022397 Bill E said: Quote: ...so, now we let the QB walk because he's no Mahomes? BRILLIANT!! I for one am glad that team bw is nowhere near jints central! You can’t make that shit up 😂 I know. It's hilarious. Why would someone get rid of a QB they were convinced couldn't win a championship so they could search for an elite QB? Har har, they must be rubes.

Well, if they were convinced he couldn't win a championship, why would they even bother to negotiate. Let him go and get the 3rd rnd comp pick next year.

But, if you take Schoen at his word, they are going to negotiate which means (drum roll) they think he can win a championship.

You are right, why waste time negotiating with someone you don't want. Har, har

The gift that keeps giving.

..a Mahomes clone was available, I'd say by all means, let DJ walk and sign him.
But a Mahomes clone is not walking through that door anytime soon.
So it's a dumb take.

In comment 16022449 Bill E said:

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..a Mahomes clone was available, I'd say by all means, let DJ walk and sign him. But a Mahomes clone is not walking through that door anytime soon. So it's a dumb take.

you're being too kind