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Early Look at 2023 53 Man Cap Situation

christian : 2/1/2023 3:25 pm
This is fast-forward view, adding in 52/53 roster spots and some opex buffer.

- Based on the current snap shot from OTC
- Assuming the Giants keep all their picks
- Assuming they cut Kenny Golladay

The Giants 53 man salary cap situation as of today:

Giants 2023 Cap | $226,048,355
Dead Money | -$22,613,912
Live Money | -$156,558,801
Free Cap Space | $46,875,642

Assume the Giants earmark 10M to operate.

The big thing that jumps out is if the Giants and Jones cannot reach an agreement and he's franchised (32.4M), it greatly alters the Giants flexibility. Their real cap space would be < 5M.

This isn't a panic scenario. They have levers to pull:

- Restructure or cut/trade Williams
- Restructure Jackson
- Extend Lawrence
- Extend Thomas

But it puts them in an immediate-term tough spot if he's franchised.



Cap Minus Dead Equals Live?  
Trainmaster : 2/1/2023 3:31 pm : link
Not sure how you get to your live money number.

Not being snarky; maybe more details?
Oh Live Is Existing Contracts?  
Trainmaster : 2/1/2023 3:32 pm : link
I think I see now.
 
christian : 2/1/2023 3:32 pm : link
Dead money is cap hits for players not on the roster, live money is cap hits for players on the roster.
RE: Oh Live Is Existing Contracts?  
christian : 2/1/2023 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16022161 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
I think I see now.


That’s a better way to describe it, yup.
Around $53.5 with the Golladay release  
BillT : 2/1/2023 3:34 pm : link
Correct?
RE: Around $53.5 with the Golladay release  
christian : 2/1/2023 3:35 pm : link
In comment 16022166 BillT said:
Quote:
Correct?


No, that includes Golladay. That’s dead money for Golladay, Toney, and Shepard.
this assumes Golladay as  
bigbluehoya : 2/1/2023 3:37 pm : link
a pre-6/1 cut, right?

If they do end up having to live with the big tag number on Jones, probably makes sense to make KG a post-7/1.

...  
christian : 2/1/2023 3:38 pm : link
They have as much cap space as they want  
mfjmfj : 2/1/2023 3:39 pm : link
this year, since they have almost no cap hit in 2024. Might not be wise to push money forward, but they can if they think it is right. And it is probably the right strategy if DJ is on the tag, since he implicitly has no cap hit in 2024.
RE: They have as much cap space as they want  
christian : 2/1/2023 3:43 pm : link
In comment 16022173 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
this year, since they have almost no cap hit in 2024. Might not be wise to push money forward, but they can if they think it is right. And it is probably the right strategy if DJ is on the tag, since he implicitly has no cap hit in 2024.


That's not exactly true. They have a limited number of contracts that are big enough to extract savings from to create 2023 cap space.

The material levers are what I posted above: Williams, Jackson, Lawrence, Thomas.
Didn’t Thomas just finish his 3rd season? Won’t he be playing on his  
Ivan15 : 2/1/2023 3:55 pm : link
Rookie contract in 2023 and his 5th year option in 2024? Can’t we not worry about Thomas until next year?
I feel like there's basically zero chance  
BlackLight : 2/1/2023 3:59 pm : link
that the Giants and DJ won't come to an agreement. Even if it's an overpay in the neighborhood of $40 million AAV, the Year 1 cap hit will still be lower than the cap hit sustained by franchising him.
RE: Didn’t Thomas just finish his 3rd season? Won’t he be playing on his  
christian : 2/1/2023 4:01 pm : link
In comment 16022186 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Rookie contract in 2023 and his 5th year option in 2024? Can’t we not worry about Thomas until next year?


Sure, but he's a player you can extend and lower his cap hit on 2023. He's eligible for extension starting this offseason.
RE: I feel like there's basically zero chance  
BillT : 2/1/2023 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16022187 BlackLight said:
Quote:
that the Giants and DJ won't come to an agreement. Even if it's an overpay in the neighborhood of $40 million AAV, the Year 1 cap hit will still be lower than the cap hit sustained by franchising him.

$40 million AAV isn't an overpay. It's market value.
RE: RE: They have as much cap space as they want  
mfjmfj : 2/1/2023 4:07 pm : link
In comment 16022180 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16022173 mfjmfj said:


Quote:


this year, since they have almost no cap hit in 2024. Might not be wise to push money forward, but they can if they think it is right. And it is probably the right strategy if DJ is on the tag, since he implicitly has no cap hit in 2024.



That's not exactly true. They have a limited number of contracts that are big enough to extract savings from to create 2023 cap space.

The material levers are what I posted above: Williams, Jackson, Lawrence, Thomas.


Well of course, but any new contract can be structured with lots of forward money and little current cap hit. May not be wise, but it is definitely doable. They have space. I would prefer them to keep structural long term cost down for at least one more year. But winning strategy in the NFL seems to be to mortgage the future when your team is ready and make your run. Sometimes it works (Eagles). Sometimes it doesn't (Broncos). And even when you mortgage the future, good drafting can get you out of the hole (again, unfortunately, see Eagles post Wentz). I hope we might be ready next year. I don't see it this year.
 
christian : 2/1/2023 4:17 pm : link
I guess the nuance I’m pointing out is some teams are in a tight cap spot, but have a bunch contracts due new cash that can restructured. The Giants don’t have a bunch of those.
Leonard Williams  
Dang Man : 2/1/2023 4:22 pm : link
What are the implications if he’s cut? How much is dead money?
I’d be pissed, but if he doesn’t agree to a restructuring the Giants over the years have done a good job of replacing talent on the DL (guys like Linval Joseph and Jonathan Hankins, etc) through the draft.
A couple of things they can do that will create room and won't hurt...  
hyadoin : 2/1/2023 4:39 pm : link
-Can't cut Glowinski this year, but with his 5.6 guaranteed this year and no dollars guaranteed next year, they can restructure him to lower his cap number from 8+ this year to make it team friendly for next year IF he makes the team. Vet presence on the inside is valuable as he will no doubt have rookie understudies this year.

-A similar restructure can be done with Adoree Jackson, who doesn't have a significant cap number next year but will obviously warrant a new deal if he performs as well as he did before he got hurt. He stands to make more money as the cap inflates in the years ahead.

These two moves, coupled with a Leo restructure and cutting Golladay, put us around 68M in cap space... Which is a very different scenario than JS had last year.

Barkley will likely sign a team-friendly deal that looks big due to an added year...with 30M guaranteed. Jones will sign for six years 241M in the Kyler Murray neighborhood. They will have cap numbers to the tune of 5M & 19M, respectively... Leaving us with 34Mish for Free Agency (-10M for draft class).


RE: They have as much cap space as they want  
Payasdaddy : 2/1/2023 4:54 pm : link
In comment 16022173 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
this year, since they have almost no cap hit in 2024. Might not be wise to push money forward, but they can if they think it is right. And it is probably the right strategy if DJ is on the tag, since he implicitly has no cap hit in 2024.

JS can push a decent amount into 2024 without going wild
Enough to have us sign our own in 2023, extend Dex and maybe X and leave some room for a decent couple of signings this yr
Even if jones, saquon , DT and X are signed long term and eat 1/2 the 170 million 2024 xtra space. 2024. Still enough to extend AT and maybe ojulari ( if he
Has a more injury free yr in 24). Also would leave room to sign a FA or two also.
RE: RE: They have as much cap space as they want  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/1/2023 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16022180 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16022173 mfjmfj said:


Quote:


this year, since they have almost no cap hit in 2024. Might not be wise to push money forward, but they can if they think it is right. And it is probably the right strategy if DJ is on the tag, since he implicitly has no cap hit in 2024.



That's not exactly true. They have a limited number of contracts that are big enough to extract savings from to create 2023 cap space.

The material levers are what I posted above: Williams, Jackson, Lawrence, Thomas.


Tremendous cap flexibility all depending on how much space they want to free up amd what level of backloading of contracts they want to do

-179 Million in 2024 to structure contracts against to a certain degree within reason.

Options to create more room in 2023 (approx. numbers):
- Golladay Post June 1 Cut +13.5M
- Williams extension +14M.
- Extend/restructure Jackson +9M
- Extend Lawrence +8M
- Extend Thomas +7M

If they want to have an Eagles-like 2021 offseason they absolutely can.

High needs:
-Trade for a vet #1 WR
-Add a high level M2M CB

1 or more of these depending on cost :

-Add a OG/OT that can play at either spot depending on if Neal works out at RT
-Add a cover LB
- Add a bigger bodied Edge Pass Rusher
- Add DL depth

Good Post  
DavidinBMNY : 2/1/2023 5:05 pm : link
Data driven is always helpful. If the Giants are franchise Building then they are extending Dex and signing Jones to a Multi-Year deal. If so I think things start to take care of themselves.

Also with 11 projected draft picks, I see them much more likely to focus on the draft with maybe 1 key FA signing.
I am much more comfortable with  
section125 : 2/1/2023 7:43 pm : link
Schoen creating deals that will not handcuff them then DG... He and the Assist GM will probably more like The Eagles structuring deals. Lots more flexibility.
We only have 6 players making over $7 mil  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 2/1/2023 8:33 pm : link
Per Christian’s spreadsheet above, and three of them are high first rounders on their rookie deals. Among the next 3 highest salaries are Glowinski and Taylor who are probably gone after 2023 and Neal another expensive high first round draft pick.

Almost everyone else, rookies and vets are under $2 mil. Plus if we can keep filling our roster with inexpensive draft picks (later first rounders are much lower salaries than top 10) and vet minimum guys we will have enough to extend whichever players JS wants.

Aside from the dead cap from cutting Golladay and the Toney trade, the bad contracts have all been trimmed.

They can really do almost anything they want in FA and the draft, but my guess is they invest in top free agents at the less expensive positions like ILB, TE and RB and draft the expensive ones like WR, CB, Edge and DL. And keep adding depth to the OL with mid to late round picks and udfas to develop.

I also think we will approach free agency cautiously with an eye toward gaining comp picks. Not sure who we have that may draw FA interest but in a week class maybe Slayton, James, Love, Ward or Breida could earn us a pick or two?
Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson are the sore thumb cap #s  
Eric on Li : 2/1/2023 8:59 pm : link
this is the year to decide on each of them. they both battled injuries but both are good players. if they want to keep them, try to extend them now. if their eyes are bigger then let their agents look for trades elsewhere. if there's another team that's willing to pay the freight then you pick up an extra draft pick and save money. if they cant find other teams will to pay them they have to contemplate the bradberry scenario. jackson is young enough he'd probably bet on himself but i dont think williams would.

it's possible they designate golladay post-6/1 depending on how their extension talks go.

if they extend thomas, lawrence, and jones i wouldnt manipulate the year 1 cap hits too much. id rather pay more in gtd year 1 base than signing bonus.
RE: We only have 6 players making over $7 mil  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/1/2023 9:23 pm : link
In comment 16022390 HopePhil and Optimistic said:
Quote:
Per Christian’s spreadsheet above, and three of them are high first rounders on their rookie deals. Among the next 3 highest salaries are Glowinski and Taylor who are probably gone after 2023 and Neal another expensive high first round draft pick.

Almost everyone else, rookies and vets are under $2 mil. Plus if we can keep filling our roster with inexpensive draft picks (later first rounders are much lower salaries than top 10) and vet minimum guys we will have enough to extend whichever players JS wants.

Aside from the dead cap from cutting Golladay and the Toney trade, the bad contracts have all been trimmed.

They can really do almost anything they want in FA and the draft, but my guess is they invest in top free agents at the less expensive positions like ILB, TE and RB and draft the expensive ones like WR, CB, Edge and DL. And keep adding depth to the OL with mid to late round picks and udfas to develop.

I also think we will approach free agency cautiously with an eye toward gaining comp picks. Not sure who we have that may draw FA interest but in a week class maybe Slayton, James, Love, Ward or Breida could earn us a pick or two?


HopePhil what you suggest is certainly a sound strategy. However I think because WR and CB are such critical need positions for them and that I believe they want to seriously compete next year, I think they will get a high quality veteran for each of these positions either via FA or trade.

Winks defense relies on an emphasis on heavy M2M coverage on the back end especially the boundaries. What Wink did this year with essentially no real upper echelon M2M Corner after Adoree is miraculous. Now this draft is so rich at CB that maybe I could see them try for the CB at 25 but there is still a learning curve. I still think they get these guys on the market and then double dip high in the draft at those positions. A CB or WR or Edge could easily be BPA at 25. All the other positions they could go after in FA could be the less premium positions and smaller overall contracts: IOL, Run stopping DT, RB depth, TE.
 
christian : 2/1/2023 9:37 pm : link
If they don’t need the money to maneuver the early offseason, a 6/1 cut for Golladay could make sense. That 13M could be the opex piggy bank for camp/season +.

And why not enjoy the ghost of Golladay’s contract for two more years.

I typically think the player will always choose the route for max money potential, but Williams inching towards 100M in career earnings and just played his first tournament games. He’s the rare player who might choose stability and a chance at winning, and sacrifice some potential dollars.
RE: …  
Eric on Li : 2/1/2023 10:06 pm : link
In comment 16022422 christian said:
Quote:
If they don’t need the money to maneuver the early offseason, a 6/1 cut for Golladay could make sense. That 13M could be the opex piggy bank for camp/season +.

And why not enjoy the ghost of Golladay’s contract for two more years.

I typically think the player will always choose the route for max money potential, but Williams inching towards 100M in career earnings and just played his first tournament games. He’s the rare player who might choose stability and a chance at winning, and sacrifice some potential dollars.


they can designate golladay 6/1 and just consider his $ paying the rookie pool (or the in-season $).

if their plan with a jones extension is to lower his year 1 below the aav to save money off the 32m tag, then june 1'ing golladay and punting some $ next year is the same thing as a balloon year in the future. in any jones extension i dont think id take the year 1 too far under the 32m.
Must be a few $M savings  
Joe Beckwith : 2/1/2023 10:59 pm : link
In cutting Peart, E.Smith,Brown, Coughlin, Crowder; I would think.
RE: Must be a few $M savings  
Pepe LePugh : 2/1/2023 11:42 pm : link
In comment 16022446 Joe Beckwith said:
Quote:
In cutting Peart, E.Smith,Brown, Coughlin, Crowder; I would think.

Not really. There’s some savings, but somebody else gets bumped into the top 51. Minimum rookie salary is $750. I think most of those guys you mention have salaries around $1.1M. But after another player’s salary gets promoted to top 51, the cap savings is at best $350K. They may not make it past training camp, but there’s no urgency to do it for cap space.
RE: RE: Must be a few $M savings  
Eric on Li : 2/2/2023 12:14 am : link
In comment 16022466 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
In comment 16022446 Joe Beckwith said:


Quote:


In cutting Peart, E.Smith,Brown, Coughlin, Crowder; I would think.


Not really. There’s some savings, but somebody else gets bumped into the top 51. Minimum rookie salary is $750. I think most of those guys you mention have salaries around $1.1M. But after another player’s salary gets promoted to top 51, the cap savings is at best $350K. They may not make it past training camp, but there’s no urgency to do it for cap space.


since this is a 53 man projection there would be some savings. Peart out for a league minimum udfa would save like 500k. elerson and crowder combined would save about the same. so it adds up a little bit.

this projection slants a little overly conservative vs. the top 51 because against the top 51 the rookie class "counts" about 7m less, and on top of that christian pulled out the 10m for in-season moves. those are real costs that need to be planned for but you don't need to square them away until after cut down day. on day 1 of free agency it's another 17m of cap space (that's going to be deployed probably by resigning barkley and love, or something like that).
The Giants on paper look like they have a ton of money  
BH28 : 2/2/2023 12:55 am : link
But as you mention when you factor in Jones contract and dead money, this is another restricted year.

This is the last year hopefully of paying the piper for bad past contracts and 2024 looks to be a clean slate.

I don't expect the Giants to be very active in high priced FAs, so this roster may look pretty similar to last year. There will be churn, but i anticipate upgrades to LB and WR to be middle tier type guys.
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