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Dov Kleinman- Tee Higgins could be traded if no extension

The Dude : 2/3/2023 1:11 pm
@NFL_DovKleiman
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8m
Report: Bengals WR Tee Higgins "could be traded" for a top draft pick if the team can't reach an extension with him and the money he's asking for is "outrageous", per
@TheAtlantic
Higgins is entering the final year of his rookie contract, and went over 1,000 back to back seasons


Guess where theres smoke theres fire with twitter rumors...

HOWEVER, I just can't see Schoen giving up a 1 or 2 for the right to overpay a WR. This team isn't at that point yet.

Also- BBI X and Os guys would know better, but is Higgins good for Daboll? Separation, route running etc.
Dov Kleiman on twitter - ( New Window )
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Tag Saquon and include him in a trade?  
The Dude : 2/3/2023 1:12 pm : link
Mixon looks to be in a bit of trouble.

Should i try that in Madden first? lol.
BBI = we want top receivers  
islander1 : 2/3/2023 1:13 pm : link
ALSO bbi: On rookie contracts
Possibly.  
Joe Beckwith : 2/3/2023 1:14 pm : link
But unlikely to us.

There’s going to be as much ‘ground up’ as possibly, and particularly via homegrowns.
RE: BBI = we want top receivers  
The Dude : 2/3/2023 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16023842 islander1 said:
Quote:
ALSO bbi: On rookie contracts


I dont think this is a crazy take lol.

KG although an absolute bust here, was once a 4th round rookie and good on 4th round rookie money.

Higgins was a 2nd round pick.

I think BBI's point you allude to is, lets get OUR own stud WR on a rookie deal instead of overpaying one. That being said, there is a time and place to overpay for one, and i dont think the roster is there yet.
Hmm I think Higgins  
jvm52106 : 2/3/2023 1:16 pm : link
would be an absolute monster here. Speed, size and good hands. You get him and give him a new deal. Not saying we will but anyone thinking we would not want Higgins does not know quality at the position.
if they were to do this type of  
Enzo : 2/3/2023 1:17 pm : link
trade, a 24-year-old with several prime years ahead of him is the type of guy they should be pursuing.
I love Higgins. He's really good.  
Heisenberg : 2/3/2023 1:19 pm : link
They certainly might trade him because they probably can't pay him and Chase and Chase is better.
If we don't get Higgins  
Spiciest Memelord : 2/3/2023 1:22 pm : link
Schoen is an abject failure as a GM.
RE: BBI = we want top receivers  
rsjem1979 : 2/3/2023 1:22 pm : link
In comment 16023842 islander1 said:
Quote:
ALSO bbi: On rookie contracts


Yes, the idea is to draft players who are very good, yet relatively inexpensive for 4-5 years, as opposed to trading draft picks for expensive players.

This is especially true for thin rosters with lots of needs.
RE: BBI = we want top receivers  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 1:23 pm : link
In comment 16023842 islander1 said:
Quote:
ALSO bbi: On rookie contracts


Yeah, that’s exactly what we should want. Other teams have them, and that’s why they are set up for success.

I’m out on Higgins due to his price tag and inability to dominate. Doesn’t mean he can’t but it’s certainly something I’m cautious of.
RE: If we don't get Higgins  
Ben in Tampa : 2/3/2023 1:33 pm : link
In comment 16023856 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
Schoen is an abject failure as a GM.


Higgins  
Toth029 : 2/3/2023 1:33 pm : link
Was producing big when Chase was oout.

I'd love to get him, but not sure Schoen will recreate the Beane move for Diggs.

Giants may elect to go with re-signing their own long term and using the draft to acquire more WRs and depth.
RE: If we don't get Higgins  
HMunster : 2/3/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16023856 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
Schoen is an abject failure as a GM.

Did you not read the part where he's asking for "outrageous" money? Pay a fortune and give up a #1 pick?

If Schoen makes that deal then he's an abject failure as a GM.
If there was a WR to give up a premium pick for  
lax counsel : 2/3/2023 1:35 pm : link
This is the one. Can't say Jones needs weapons and when the opportunity arises to get one, pass it up. Its unlikely the Giants are going to get anyone in Round 1 or Round 2 at their current draft position that will have the impact of Higgins over the next couple of seasons.
Diggs was traded for when Allen  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 1:36 pm : link
was on his rookie deal so it’s definitely not apples to apples. This would be a lot more clear if Schoen had 2 years of working with this group but just 1 makes it very tricky.

But either way the assets we will have to give up are likely huge, on top of a market rate contract. I just don’t see it.
I think I’d pass  
eric2425ny : 2/3/2023 1:38 pm : link
he is kind of an inconsistent receiver. He has huge games and then he’ll have 1 catch for 7 yards the following week. That kind of roller coaster ride production is not something you typically pay top dollar for. Especially when you are trading high picks as well.

He’s also always nicked up. He plays through a lot of the injuries, but they could also be contributing to his inconsistency. In terms of actual games missed there were 3 in 2021 and 2 in 2022.
RE: BBI = we want top receivers  
BillT : 2/3/2023 1:39 pm : link
In comment 16023842 islander1 said:
Quote:
ALSO bbi: On rookie contracts

This. However, this idea seems lost to many. They must long for the days of the cap master Dave Gettleman.
...  
ryanmkeane : 2/3/2023 1:45 pm : link
Schoen is going to prefer the draft/value signings route. Reasonable to expect that we can find our own Tee Higgins, perhaps as early as the 2023 draft.
RE: ...  
eric2425ny : 2/3/2023 1:49 pm : link
In comment 16023891 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Schoen is going to prefer the draft/value signings route. Reasonable to expect that we can find our own Tee Higgins, perhaps as early as the 2023 draft.


Exactly, I know the cap is rising, but we don’t have the luxury of a rookie QB salary anymore. Handing away top draft choices for a 1B level receiver and then paying him a crazy salary is not going to help this team.
RE: I think I’d pass  
Heisenberg : 2/3/2023 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16023885 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
he is kind of an inconsistent receiver. He has huge games and then he’ll have 1 catch for 7 yards the following week. That kind of roller coaster ride production is not something you typically pay top dollar for. Especially when you are trading high picks as well.

He’s also always nicked up. He plays through a lot of the injuries, but they could also be contributing to his inconsistency. In terms of actual games missed there were 3 in 2021 and 2 in 2022.


Not sure that inconsistent is a fair criticism, aside from a fantasy football side of things. He's actually been pretty consistent overall during his career. The game to game fluctuation isn't that high but it's mainly because he's never led the team in targets. His rookie year he was just behind Tyler Boyd and then the last two years he's behind Chase - who is maybe the best WR in football. His catch rate is actually pretty consistent.

On the Giants, he'd lead the team in targets. If Schoen found a value that made sense, he'd be a great addition. Big and really outstanding on 50-50 balls. Exactly what the Giants need to stretch the field.
RE: if they were to do this type of  
sb from NYT Forum : 2/3/2023 2:03 pm : link
In comment 16023847 Enzo said:
Quote:
trade, a 24-year-old with several prime years ahead of him is the type of guy they should be pursuing.


RE: Higgins  
k2tampa : 2/3/2023 2:10 pm : link
In comment 16023872 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Was producing big when Chase was oout.

I'd love to get him, but not sure Schoen will recreate the Beane move for Diggs.

Giants may elect to go with re-signing their own long term and using the draft to acquire more WRs and depth.


Apples and oranges. Diggs had, what, three years left on his contract when he was traded? Higgins wants "outrageous money".

Not to mention, the pick Buffalo traded for Diggs turned into Jefferson. Think Buffalo would reverse that trade now? Two more years of Jefferson on a rookie deal versus what they have paid Diggs the last three years and what they will pay him over the next two before Jefferson gets a new deal?
RE: if they were to do this type of  
GiantGrit : 2/3/2023 2:13 pm : link
In comment 16023847 Enzo said:
Quote:
trade, a 24-year-old with several prime years ahead of him is the type of guy they should be pursuing.


Yeah I was saying this yesterday. Based on the Jeudy & Moore noise the Giants aren't opposed to dealing but will only do so for younger studs. Higgins does fit in that category.
Higgins is better than any FA WR this offseason  
Heisenberg : 2/3/2023 2:14 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Higgins  
joeinpa : 2/3/2023 2:17 pm : link
In comment 16023920 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16023872 Toth029 said:


Quote:


Was producing big when Chase was oout.

I'd love to get him, but not sure Schoen will recreate the Beane move for Diggs.

Giants may elect to go with re-signing their own long term and using the draft to acquire more WRs and depth.



Apples and oranges. Diggs had, what, three years left on his contract when he was traded? Higgins wants "outrageous money".

Not to mention, the pick Buffalo traded for Diggs turned into Jefferson. Think Buffalo would reverse that trade now? Two more years of Jefferson on a rookie deal versus what they have paid Diggs the last three years and what they will pay him over the next two before Jefferson gets a new deal?


You just won the point!
we only want  
bigbluehoya : 2/3/2023 2:18 pm : link
players who are already proven, on rookie contract and under control for term, but who also don't cost anything more than late picks to acquire.

And unicorn rides also.
Higgins will cost a First and likely another day 2 pick  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 2:20 pm : link
possibly more, plus $30m per year. Can’t believe people think this is just some easy decision that Schoen has to do.
RE: we only want  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 2:20 pm : link
In comment 16023951 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
players who are already proven, on rookie contract and under control for term, but who also don't cost anything more than late picks to acquire.

And unicorn rides also.


Again, yes. In other words, stay the course. What’s so hard to understand?
Higgins is worth going after.  
Gruber : 2/3/2023 2:30 pm : link
As I've pointed out on another thread, my guess is that the Bengals can't keep Higgins as well as paying Burrow and Chase.
He's a legit #1 receiver.
It's up to Joe Schoen to decide if the price is too high.
Higgens is proven  
RollBlue : 2/3/2023 2:35 pm : link
not a certainty picking one at 25 works out. May turn out like Jefferson, but also may turn out to be like Reagor... If a number one this year is the asking price, I think it's worth it.
RE: RE: if they were to do this type of  
k2tampa : 2/3/2023 2:37 pm : link
In comment 16023933 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 16023847 Enzo said:


Quote:


trade, a 24-year-old with several prime years ahead of him is the type of guy they should be pursuing.



Yeah I was saying this yesterday. Based on the Jeudy & Moore noise the Giants aren't opposed to dealing but will only do so for younger studs. Higgins does fit in that category.


And hey backed off their pursuit of Moore and Juedy because of the price in draft. Do you think Schoen is NOW willing to part with his first for a receiver who wants to renegotiate for crazy money?
RE: Higgens is proven  
Payasdaddy : 2/3/2023 2:40 pm : link
In comment 16023984 RollBlue said:
Quote:
not a certainty picking one at 25 works out. May turn out like Jefferson, but also may turn out to be like Reagor... If a number one this year is the asking price, I think it's worth it.

Higgins has proven he is nothing like reagor
The guy is legit. Not JJ, who is?
I just don’t think we are there yet
I rather maneuver in the draft, maybe even trade out of first if it gets us 3 picks in 150. Maybe trade a 6 and 7th for another 5th and really try to solidify team with 9 picks between picks 40-150. Can solidify D on all level, oline and pick a couple wrs
Next yr go for the next wr who wants a big contract and mortgage some future then.
2 yrs sustainable level of performance plan.
if the price is essentially  
Dave on the UWS : 2/3/2023 2:47 pm : link
a number 1 (and the 25th pick works for Cinn), then you RUN TO THE PHONE. A thousand yard #1 receiver for the 25th pick, who is 6-4 over 200 lbs and is only 24 years old? Common, no brainer!
I'd be all for Higgins in exchange for the 1st round pick  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/3/2023 2:48 pm : link
doubt the Giants will do it though.
RE: RE: RE: if they were to do this type of  
GiantGrit : 2/3/2023 2:49 pm : link
In comment 16023987 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16023933 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


In comment 16023847 Enzo said:


Quote:


trade, a 24-year-old with several prime years ahead of him is the type of guy they should be pursuing.



Yeah I was saying this yesterday. Based on the Jeudy & Moore noise the Giants aren't opposed to dealing but will only do so for younger studs. Higgins does fit in that category.



And hey backed off their pursuit of Moore and Juedy because of the price in draft. Do you think Schoen is NOW willing to part with his first for a receiver who wants to renegotiate for crazy money?


Was Schoen unwilling to part with a first or was Schoen unwilling to part with a first for Jeudy?

Does Schoen see Higgins as a legit #1 whose only 24 years old? How much $$ does he believe should be tied into the WR position?

Schoen also didn't know where that pick was going end up being....and while the Giants weren't willing to trade a first for Jeudy they were very close to pulling the trigger with strong draft capital going the other way. So again, Schoen isn't unwilling to trade but he would want very good - elite young talent and Higgins fits that category.

I lean to standing pat or trading back btw.
The question we're not really asking here is  
BlackLight : 2/3/2023 2:51 pm : link
How do we prioritize our upgrades? Yes, we need better WRs. We also need better interior OLs, LBs, and CBs (and that's just starters).

Trading for a legit #1 WR like Higgins is exactly the kind of splash move that casual fans love, but it can also we something that's done at the expense of filling other needs.
RE: BBI = we want top receivers  
Tom from LI : 2/3/2023 2:55 pm : link
In comment 16023842 islander1 said:
Quote:
ALSO bbi: On rookie contracts



for a conditional 7th round pick
RE: The question we're not really asking here is  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/3/2023 2:57 pm : link
In comment 16024003 BlackLight said:
Quote:
How do we prioritize our upgrades? Yes, we need better WRs. We also need better interior OLs, LBs, and CBs (and that's just starters).

Trading for a legit #1 WR like Higgins is exactly the kind of splash move that casual fans love, but it can also we something that's done at the expense of filling other needs.


I think they prefer a corner at their pick. The problem is I think there's going to be a run on corners prior to where the Giants are drafting. If thats the case I'm all for Higgins.
BBI  
BleedBlue : 2/3/2023 2:59 pm : link
the place where stupidity is often accompanied by embarrassment


GUYS WE WANT A FUCKING WR. we have all complained for how bad ours are but then one comes along and its nah he too expensive. okay so play with the shit we have?

THIS is a great opportunity. #25 + a 3rd is comparable to what eagles gave for brown and its a NO BRAINER.

I mean RIGHT now which team in NFL WOULD NOT trade treylon burks and a 3rd rounder for AJ brown?

The giants have a lot of young talent including a qb and plenty of money. make the trade extend him and use the rest of draft and a couple of mid level FAs to round out the roster. you guys act like we won 2 games this season. the giants were competitive and have a fantastic coaching staff.

This is a VERY good move and one shcoen should make as long as the picks needed arent insane like 2 firsts
RE: BBI  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/3/2023 3:05 pm : link
In comment 16024013 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
the place where stupidity is often accompanied by embarrassment


GUYS WE WANT A FUCKING WR. we have all complained for how bad ours are but then one comes along and its nah he too expensive. okay so play with the shit we have?

THIS is a great opportunity. #25 + a 3rd is comparable to what eagles gave for brown and its a NO BRAINER.

I mean RIGHT now which team in NFL WOULD NOT trade treylon burks and a 3rd rounder for AJ brown?

The giants have a lot of young talent including a qb and plenty of money. make the trade extend him and use the rest of draft and a couple of mid level FAs to round out the roster. you guys act like we won 2 games this season. the giants were competitive and have a fantastic coaching staff.

This is a VERY good move and one shcoen should make as long as the picks needed arent insane like 2 firsts


Getting Higgins would be exciting. It would feel like how it was when we got Plax. A young player entering his prime.
RE: RE: BBI  
BleedBlue : 2/3/2023 3:08 pm : link
In comment 16024025 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
In comment 16024013 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


the place where stupidity is often accompanied by embarrassment


GUYS WE WANT A FUCKING WR. we have all complained for how bad ours are but then one comes along and its nah he too expensive. okay so play with the shit we have?

THIS is a great opportunity. #25 + a 3rd is comparable to what eagles gave for brown and its a NO BRAINER.

I mean RIGHT now which team in NFL WOULD NOT trade treylon burks and a 3rd rounder for AJ brown?

The giants have a lot of young talent including a qb and plenty of money. make the trade extend him and use the rest of draft and a couple of mid level FAs to round out the roster. you guys act like we won 2 games this season. the giants were competitive and have a fantastic coaching staff.

This is a VERY good move and one shcoen should make as long as the picks needed arent insane like 2 firsts



Getting Higgins would be exciting. It would feel like how it was when we got Plax. A young player entering his prime.


100%.

It would give seriuous life to the offense. I mean guys like bellinger, wandale, etc would all benefit greatly from a guy who defenses have to fear. its legit opens your entire offense if you have a big time weapon that people fear in passing game.
I’m all in on this trade.  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 2/3/2023 3:10 pm : link

The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.
This isn't happening and Giants aren't doing it  
Sammo85 : 2/3/2023 3:17 pm : link
so folks are getting lathered up over nothing.
For those who follow college ball more...  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/3/2023 3:17 pm : link
Any idea why some mocks have Jaxon Smith-Njigba going to the Giants? Isn't he going to be strictly a slot wr in the league? Seems a little redundant with the Wandale pick last year.
RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
BleedBlue : 2/3/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:

The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.


im with you.

Higgins
Hodgins
Robinson

Maybe bring back richie james or slayton for depth? I think that top 3 is solid and would really do huge things for the offense
Opportunity and Replacement Cost  
Sammo85 : 2/3/2023 3:22 pm : link
Adding Higgins would cost at least ONE pick plus a conditional, plus you would have to pay him 20m per season guaranteed for up to 3 years. It would cost you Barkley right off the top if Jones is assumed as either franchised or signed. Who is your RB? It may even cost you adding to the OL this season and one of our defensive players.

Also - Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow aren't coming with Higgins. Just so folks think and remember about that.
RE: Higgins will cost a First and likely another day 2 pick  
eric2425ny : 2/3/2023 3:24 pm : link
In comment 16023954 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
possibly more, plus $30m per year. Can’t believe people think this is just some easy decision that Schoen has to do.


Exactly. I think he’s a good player, but he’s likely not worth what he wants. And the Plax comparisons from a team building perspective are not the same at all. The Giants didn’t give up any picks, they signed Plax as a FA. He also didn’t command a huge contract, the numbers were pretty reasonable.
You can't trade for him if you intend  
Tom from LI : 2/3/2023 3:29 pm : link
to Tag DJ. You will burn right through the cap. You need to sign DJ to a 5 year deal to stagger the hit.

I am a big fan of Higgins. No way am I paying him 30 million a year.

DJ has shown with the level of receiver he has here in 2022 he can be somewhat productive. Draft him a receiver that fits the Daboll mold and save the draft capital and cap space for Thomas, Lawrence, McKinney and the rest of our in house talent.

I expect a slight step back next year. We are more than a 30 million dollar WR away.
RE: RE: Higgins will cost a First and likely another day 2 pick  
BleedBlue : 2/3/2023 3:29 pm : link
In comment 16024043 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 16023954 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


possibly more, plus $30m per year. Can’t believe people think this is just some easy decision that Schoen has to do.



Exactly. I think he’s a good player, but he’s likely not worth what he wants. And the Plax comparisons from a team building perspective are not the same at all. The Giants didn’t give up any picks, they signed Plax as a FA. He also didn’t command a huge contract, the numbers were pretty reasonable.


that was over a decade ago. His cost would be the same today....

also, its just a comparison as to what it did for our offense/team

The giants offense in 08 was average with plax. with plax they were very tough.

as for replacement cost, I think barkley and higgins can fit under but if not, make him part of the package and sign mostert since BBI says RBs are easily replaceable and WR is a harder position to find. NO WRs of higgins ability is hitting FA market...
I don’t think we’d be signing Higgins as a FA either  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 3:31 pm : link
this seems like the wrong year for us, and my guess is they will go all in on improving the trenches.
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