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Dov Kleinman- Tee Higgins could be traded if no extension

The Dude : 2/3/2023 1:11 pm
@NFL_DovKleiman
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8m
Report: Bengals WR Tee Higgins "could be traded" for a top draft pick if the team can't reach an extension with him and the money he's asking for is "outrageous", per
@TheAtlantic
Higgins is entering the final year of his rookie contract, and went over 1,000 back to back seasons


Guess where theres smoke theres fire with twitter rumors...

HOWEVER, I just can't see Schoen giving up a 1 or 2 for the right to overpay a WR. This team isn't at that point yet.

Also- BBI X and Os guys would know better, but is Higgins good for Daboll? Separation, route running etc.
Dov Kleiman on twitter - ( New Window )
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Again, it may not make a difference  
BlackLight : 2/3/2023 3:34 pm : link
but if you designate Golladay as a post-6/1 cut, half of his cap savings won't become available until after June 1st. We don't get the benefit of the full $13 million or whatever right away.
Mixon has played his last game. He is Ray Rice Personna non Gratis  
Rich_Houston_1971 : 2/3/2023 3:45 pm : link
No way he plays another game.
Watch the Eagles get him for a third and fifth. LOL  
GiantBlue : 2/3/2023 3:51 pm : link
Kidding.

But for a first....I would love him in a Giants UNI as our #1.
The latest Mixon case is so weird  
BlackLight : 2/3/2023 3:52 pm : link
The prosecutor asked that the charges be dropped for now, pending further investigation. Like, further investigation that might commence a week from Monday?
RE: RE: Higgins  
Toth029 : 2/3/2023 3:53 pm : link
In comment 16023920 k2tampa said:
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In comment 16023872 Toth029 said:


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Was producing big when Chase was oout.

I'd love to get him, but not sure Schoen will recreate the Beane move for Diggs.

Giants may elect to go with re-signing their own long term and using the draft to acquire more WRs and depth.



Apples and oranges. Diggs had, what, three years left on his contract when he was traded? Higgins wants "outrageous money".

Not to mention, the pick Buffalo traded for Diggs turned into Jefferson. Think Buffalo would reverse that trade now? Two more years of Jefferson on a rookie deal versus what they have paid Diggs the last three years and what they will pay him over the next two before Jefferson gets a new deal?


Is there a Justin Jefferson in this draft?

And don't you think he's an outlier at this point? Teams draft bad receivers high all the time. Very few are as explosive and dynamic as Jefferson has been. I do agree paying a WR high isn't on my check list but the Giants might view it differently.
RE: RE: RE: RE: if they were to do this type of  
k2tampa : 2/3/2023 3:54 pm : link
In comment 16024001 GiantGrit said:
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In comment 16023987 k2tampa said:


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In comment 16023933 GiantGrit said:


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In comment 16023847 Enzo said:


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trade, a 24-year-old with several prime years ahead of him is the type of guy they should be pursuing.



Yeah I was saying this yesterday. Based on the Jeudy & Moore noise the Giants aren't opposed to dealing but will only do so for younger studs. Higgins does fit in that category.



And hey backed off their pursuit of Moore and Juedy because of the price in draft. Do you think Schoen is NOW willing to part with his first for a receiver who wants to renegotiate for crazy money?



Was Schoen unwilling to part with a first or was Schoen unwilling to part with a first for Jeudy?

Does Schoen see Higgins as a legit #1 whose only 24 years old? How much $$ does he believe should be tied into the WR position?

Schoen also didn't know where that pick was going end up being....and while the Giants weren't willing to trade a first for Jeudy they were very close to pulling the trigger with strong draft capital going the other way. So again, Schoen isn't unwilling to trade but he would want very good - elite young talent and Higgins fits that category.

I lean to standing pat or trading back btw.


And they would have had 2.5 years of Jeudy on his rookie contract. With Higgins they would get one, but with a contract renegotiation needed. Higgins has also never had to be the No. 1 who gets doubled.
Don’t get “Goli-Dazed”….  
morrison40 : 2/3/2023 3:57 pm : link
By overpaying for a WR, draft one and spread out the available FA $,after Jones and Barkley ? ,to incrementally improve multiple positions.
RE: If we don't get Higgins  
Rory : 2/3/2023 4:00 pm : link
In comment 16023856 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
Schoen is an abject failure as a GM.


I'm not sure if you're 11 years old but you need to keep your stream of conscious thinking to yourself or just read the room better.

This is a totally stupid comment to post.
RE: RE: If we don't get Higgins  
Payasdaddy : 2/3/2023 4:24 pm : link
In comment 16024094 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 16023856 Spiciest Memelord said:


Quote:


Schoen is an abject failure as a GM.



I'm not sure if you're 11 years old but you need to keep your stream of conscious thinking to yourself or just read the room better.

This is a totally stupid comment to post.


Agreed. Are we allowed to use the word retarded anymore?
RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
NYG07 : 2/3/2023 4:58 pm : link
In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:

The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.


The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.
Eagles also had a complete OL  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 5:07 pm : link
timing worked out perfectly for them, unfortunately.
RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 6:25 pm : link
In comment 16024136 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:



The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.



The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.


You are correct this is also about the 2024 cap and beyond in which they so happen to have 179M available.

Approx Guesses at cap hit vs 2024

Jones 40M
Barkley 12M
Lawrence 20M
Thomas 20M
Leo 20M
FA WR 25M

Thats 137M ...42M left. Obviously a generalization but a baseline showing it might not be impossible to do if they wanted to.

Only 9 of 32 NFL teams have 15M or more in capspace this offseason which shows how teams are aggressively spending vs the cap space nowadays. 16 of 32 teams have 5million or less to spend with 12 teams in the negative currently. This is the trend... to spend right up to the cap and then manuever stuff around each year.

RE: Don’t get “Goli-Dazed”….  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 6:28 pm : link
In comment 16024089 morrison40 said:
Quote:
By overpaying for a WR, draft one and spread out the available FA $,after Jones and Barkley ? ,to incrementally improve multiple positions.


For each horror story there have been tremendous successes for a WR trade as well. Diggs, Hopkins, Hill, AJ Brown, etc.
RE: RE: Don’t get “Goli-Dazed”….  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 6:39 pm : link
In comment 16024189 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024089 morrison40 said:


Quote:


By overpaying for a WR, draft one and spread out the available FA $,after Jones and Barkley ? ,to incrementally improve multiple positions.



For each horror story there have been tremendous successes for a WR trade as well. Diggs, Hopkins, Hill, AJ Brown, etc.


All those QB were on rookie deals, which also lessens the blow if the player doesn’t work out. In general I think WR trades tend to workout though (Golladay was just dumb and isn’t in the equation for me, it was stupid then and now and done by a bad GM) but the issue here is timing. Unless we sign Jones long term and don’t understand why we’d be in the market for giving up major assets for a WR. If Jones is tagged then fortify the lines, make a couple solid lower end WR signings, draft a WR and go from there.
RE: RE: RE: Don’t get “Goli-Dazed”….  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 6:48 pm : link
In comment 16024191 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024189 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024089 morrison40 said:


Quote:


By overpaying for a WR, draft one and spread out the available FA $,after Jones and Barkley ? ,to incrementally improve multiple positions.



For each horror story there have been tremendous successes for a WR trade as well. Diggs, Hopkins, Hill, AJ Brown, etc.



All those QB were on rookie deals, which also lessens the blow if the player doesn’t work out. In general I think WR trades tend to workout though (Golladay was just dumb and isn’t in the equation for me, it was stupid then and now and done by a bad GM) but the issue here is timing. Unless we sign Jones long term and don’t understand why we’d be in the market for giving up major assets for a WR. If Jones is tagged then fortify the lines, make a couple solid lower end WR signings, draft a WR and go from there.


A GM would be signing the vet because he is an NFL proven commidity that would come with a minimal learning curve and could be a #1 essentially from day 1 in the offense. The draft is a lot of inknown . First can the WR stay healthy and consistently withstand the rigors of NFL punishment, second did the GM guess right on the talent translating to the pros, third how long is his learning curve going to be?
We wouldnt be signing a vet though  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 7:02 pm : link
this is a major trade + signing scenario. I realize the benefits, I’m talking about the costs and the timing.
RE: RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
k2tampa : 2/3/2023 7:27 pm : link
In comment 16024188 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024136 NYG07 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:



The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.



The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.



You are correct this is also about the 2024 cap and beyond in which they so happen to have 179M available.

Approx Guesses at cap hit vs 2024

Jones 40M
Barkley 12M
Lawrence 20M
Thomas 20M
Leo 20M
FA WR 25M

Thats 137M ...42M left. Obviously a generalization but a baseline showing it might not be impossible to do if they wanted to.

Only 9 of 32 NFL teams have 15M or more in capspace this offseason which shows how teams are aggressively spending vs the cap space nowadays. 16 of 32 teams have 5million or less to spend with 12 teams in the negative currently. This is the trend... to spend right up to the cap and then manuever stuff around each year.


Or many of those teams with little cap space have most of their players already under contract.
RE: We wouldnt be signing a vet though  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 7:28 pm : link
In comment 16024200 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
this is a major trade + signing scenario. I realize the benefits, I’m talking about the costs and the timing.


We have enough flexibility between this year's cap and beyond to make the move if we believe its incremental impact on the team would be big enough
RE: RE: We wouldnt be signing a vet though  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 7:34 pm : link
In comment 16024212 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024200 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


this is a major trade + signing scenario. I realize the benefits, I’m talking about the costs and the timing.



We have enough flexibility between this year's cap and beyond to make the move if we believe its incremental impact on the team would be big enough


We can afford any player we want, that’s not the question. The question is the draft compensation on top of it and whether that makes sense to do given the rest of our roster.
RE: Higgins will cost a First and likely another day 2 pick  
mfjmfj : 2/3/2023 7:54 pm : link
In comment 16023954 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
possibly more, plus $30m per year. Can’t believe people think this is just some easy decision that Schoen has to do.


If that is the cost I would hope he is a hard no. Maybe there is a manager stupid enough to make that deal, but not many. Tee has one more year on his rookie deal and is not the best receiver on his own team. I would think about giving up our 2nd round pick and doing a 4/$70MM. Then, still only maybe depending on how my coaches feel about him.
RE: RE: RE: We wouldnt be signing a vet though  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 8:01 pm : link
In comment 16024214 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024212 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024200 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


this is a major trade + signing scenario. I realize the benefits, I’m talking about the costs and the timing.



We have enough flexibility between this year's cap and beyond to make the move if we believe its incremental impact on the team would be big enough



We can afford any player we want, that’s not the question. The question is the draft compensation on top of it and whether that makes sense to do given the rest of our roster.


Uconn it is the right question to ask for which I believe the answer is its absolutely worth it. Here's why:

Considering the impact a #1 WR would make in this offense relative to the dearth of talent we have there it would be worth it even if we had to sacrifice somewhere else potentially. WR in todays NFL is a premium position and by far its our weakest unit overall on the team. Therefore a top WR would quite possibly have a similar impact to the offense that AJ Brown had for the Eagles.
You aren’t wrong  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2023 8:32 pm : link
but that isn’t the only way. We can very well see a much better passing attack with a better OL and a couple mid tier FA WRs and a pick. And theirs virtually no risk with this strategy because we have to get the OL better anyway, Higgins or not.
RE: RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
NYG07 : 2/3/2023 8:34 pm : link
In comment 16024188 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024136 NYG07 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:



The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.



The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.



You are correct this is also about the 2024 cap and beyond in which they so happen to have 179M available.

Approx Guesses at cap hit vs 2024

Jones 40M
Barkley 12M
Lawrence 20M
Thomas 20M
Leo 20M
FA WR 25M

Thats 137M ...42M left. Obviously a generalization but a baseline showing it might not be impossible to do if they wanted to.

Only 9 of 32 NFL teams have 15M or more in capspace this offseason which shows how teams are aggressively spending vs the cap space nowadays. 16 of 32 teams have 5million or less to spend with 12 teams in the negative currently. This is the trend... to spend right up to the cap and then manuever stuff around each year.


I hope this is a joke. You think leaving 20% of the cap space for 47 players is a solid team building strategy? I am also assuming in this scenario you are letting McKinney and Adoree walk? The Giants will be a terrible team with no depth if this happens.
RE: RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
speedywheels : 2/3/2023 8:40 pm : link
In comment 16024188 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024136 NYG07 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:



The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.



The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.



You are correct this is also about the 2024 cap and beyond in which they so happen to have 179M available.

Approx Guesses at cap hit vs 2024

Jones 40M
Barkley 12M
Lawrence 20M
Thomas 20M
Leo 20M
FA WR 25M

Thats 137M ...42M left. Obviously a generalization but a baseline showing it might not be impossible to do if they wanted to.

Only 9 of 32 NFL teams have 15M or more in capspace this offseason which shows how teams are aggressively spending vs the cap space nowadays. 16 of 32 teams have 5million or less to spend with 12 teams in the negative currently. This is the trend... to spend right up to the cap and then manuever stuff around each year.


Jones isn't going to have a 40 million cap hit in 2023. Either he gets franchised (I believe it's around 32 million) or they sign him to a long term deal, which means the first year (if not years 2 and 3) will have a much smaller cap hit.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 8:42 pm : link
In comment 16024224 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024188 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024136 NYG07 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:



The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.



The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.



You are correct this is also about the 2024 cap and beyond in which they so happen to have 179M available.

Approx Guesses at cap hit vs 2024

Jones 40M
Barkley 12M
Lawrence 20M
Thomas 20M
Leo 20M
FA WR 25M

Thats 137M ...42M left. Obviously a generalization but a baseline showing it might not be impossible to do if they wanted to.

Only 9 of 32 NFL teams have 15M or more in capspace this offseason which shows how teams are aggressively spending vs the cap space nowadays. 16 of 32 teams have 5million or less to spend with 12 teams in the negative currently. This is the trend... to spend right up to the cap and then manuever stuff around each year.




I hope this is a joke. You think leaving 20% of the cap space for 47 players is a solid team building strategy? I am also assuming in this scenario you are letting McKinney and Adoree walk? The Giants will be a terrible team with no depth if this happens.


Yet a fairly high percentage of NFL teams are doing it because there are ways to clear space and rearrange and reload. NFL cap is not like balancing our own bank accounts its quite different. Go look at NFL rosters the top 5-10 players often account for a very large portion of the cap.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 8:45 pm : link
In comment 16024228 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 16024188 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024136 NYG07 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024028 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:



The AJ Brown trade is the template. Designate KG as a post June 1st cute. Save 13M on the cap. Put it towards Higgins.

Draft another WR in rounds 2-3. Get Wandale healthy, extend Hodgins. Can turn WR from a weakness into a strength.



The AJ Brown trade only works for the Eagles because Hurts is making peanuts.

This is not happening. The Giants cannot afford to Pay Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinnie, and give a WR $25M a year. This is not just about the 2023 cap.



You are correct this is also about the 2024 cap and beyond in which they so happen to have 179M available.

Approx Guesses at cap hit vs 2024

Jones 40M
Barkley 12M
Lawrence 20M
Thomas 20M
Leo 20M
FA WR 25M

Thats 137M ...42M left. Obviously a generalization but a baseline showing it might not be impossible to do if they wanted to.

Only 9 of 32 NFL teams have 15M or more in capspace this offseason which shows how teams are aggressively spending vs the cap space nowadays. 16 of 32 teams have 5million or less to spend with 12 teams in the negative currently. This is the trend... to spend right up to the cap and then manuever stuff around each year.




Jones isn't going to have a 40 million cap hit in 2023. Either he gets franchised (I believe it's around 32 million) or they sign him to a long term deal, which means the first year (if not years 2 and 3) will have a much smaller cap hit.


Those were approximations for 2024. You are correct for 2023 it will probably be quite a bit less. 2024 even if he signs long term may be a bit less than 40M too depending on contract structure.
RE: You aren’t wrong  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/3/2023 8:49 pm : link
In comment 16024223 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but that isn’t the only way. We can very well see a much better passing attack with a better OL and a couple mid tier FA WRs and a pick. And theirs virtually no risk with this strategy because we have to get the OL better anyway, Higgins or not.


The strategy you suggest is certainly another option. I prefer the elite WR route though and then surround him with lower salary guys like Hodgins, WanDale Robinson, maybe James and a high draft pick. I see the impact that a Diggs, Hill, Adams etc have for a team with the modern NFL rules. I think the impact is greater than having a few mid tier talents.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m all in on this trade.  
speedywheels : 2/3/2023 9:02 pm : link
In comment 16024232 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:




Those were approximations for 2024. You are correct for 2023 it will probably be quite a bit less. 2024 even if he signs long term may be a bit less than 40M too depending on contract structure.


My bad, I missed your comment was about 2024. But - as you pointed out - the 2024 hit should also be smaller (2025+ is where it would balloon. But if he's not performing they will cut him; if he is performing, by then a 40+ cap hit will be a "bargain", relatively speaking)
3 scenarios I see driving a trade  
Rory : 2/3/2023 9:20 pm : link
1. Jones is signed and he who I will imagine will be a big part of rebuilding this WR core agrees.

2. NY Giants feel they can re-sign him

3. Giants have some capability to recoup dollars from KG deal.

We have alot of in house FA's coming up the next 2 years, A Thomas, Dexter Lawrence, Xman, Love who I honestly value more and it seems there's 4-5 break out rookie WR's every year.
The bengals are notoriously cheap  
djm : 2/3/2023 9:25 pm : link
Or at least were notoriously cheap. One can dream.
Sure I Would Love To Have Higgins  
Bernie : 2/4/2023 9:22 am : link
But not at the price he is looking for. Continue to build both lines, get an ILB that can go sideline to sideline, and continue to pick WR’s in the draft. If the Giants ever get to the point where WR is truly the last piece of the puzzle, then maybe overspend; but they are a long way from there.
RE: Sure I Would Love To Have Higgins  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/4/2023 9:48 am : link
In comment 16024351 Bernie said:
Quote:
But not at the price he is looking for. Continue to build both lines, get an ILB that can go sideline to sideline, and continue to pick WR’s in the draft. If the Giants ever get to the point where WR is truly the last piece of the puzzle, then maybe overspend; but they are a long way from there.


What are the highest impact positions normally in todays NFL:

1. QB
2. A shutdown LT
3. An elite WR -today's passing rules make a guy like this almost impossible to contain
4. A shutdown CB - in Winks D having two high level M2M Corners on the boundaries
5. An elite pass rushing DT that can destroy the middle of the pocket - less common but super impactful
6. An elite Edge rusher

What are we missing out of these most impactful spots? The elite WR and for Winks D the 2nd high level M2M CB

Does this mean Higgins? There will be other options if his demands are too high but some estblished vet WR is the safer bet over the draft. Though we could also double dip with a high draft pick there too.
RE: If there was a WR to give up a premium pick for  
allstarjim : 2/4/2023 9:52 am : link
In comment 16023880 lax counsel said:
Quote:
This is the one. Can't say Jones needs weapons and when the opportunity arises to get one, pass it up. Its unlikely the Giants are going to get anyone in Round 1 or Round 2 at their current draft position that will have the impact of Higgins over the next couple of seasons.


It's actually fairly likely. Higgins himself was a 2nd rounder. Justin Jefferson was picked 22nd overall, close to where the Giants are picking. Cooper Kupp was a third rounder, Stefon Diggs was a 5th rounder. WRs with the most yards the last 5 years: Davante Adams (2nd round pick), Tyreek Hill (5th round pick), Diggs, Evans (7th overall), Kupp.

Only one guy on that list taken before 25 overall.

Sign DJ Chark and invest in draft.  
dannyduffle : 2/4/2023 10:11 am : link
We aren’t one WR away from a serious Run.
Put me in the “no” column  
gersh : 2/4/2023 10:31 am : link
Let’s keep building. Maybe next year to pay any FA that much (other than our QB)
I don’t think he’s in AJ Brown’s class  
giantBCP : 2/4/2023 10:53 am : link
It’s a definite no if that’s his cost.
RE: Sign DJ Chark and invest in draft.  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/4/2023 11:11 am : link
In comment 16024375 dannyduffle said:
Quote:
We aren’t one WR away from a serious Run.


Neither were the 2021 Eagles yet they traded for the elite WR giving up a 1st and more, they signed another high level M2M CB and fortified depth on the team. If the Giants have a similar offseason which is doable given the cap space in 2023 and beyond, Giants can make the jump to a top Super Bowl contender too.
RE: RE: If there was a WR to give up a premium pick for  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/4/2023 11:23 am : link
In comment 16024369 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 16023880 lax counsel said:


Quote:


This is the one. Can't say Jones needs weapons and when the opportunity arises to get one, pass it up. Its unlikely the Giants are going to get anyone in Round 1 or Round 2 at their current draft position that will have the impact of Higgins over the next couple of seasons.



It's actually fairly likely. Higgins himself was a 2nd rounder. Justin Jefferson was picked 22nd overall, close to where the Giants are picking. Cooper Kupp was a third rounder, Stefon Diggs was a 5th rounder. WRs with the most yards the last 5 years: Davante Adams (2nd round pick), Tyreek Hill (5th round pick), Diggs, Evans (7th overall), Kupp.

Only one guy on that list taken before 25 overall.



If it were that easy to get an elite WR in the 1st or 2nd round then why have so many teams that have found their QB went out and traded a 1st or 2nd round pick plus often times more than that to secure the established veteran?

I think the answer lies in probability and timing. The established vet is proven and has little learning curve especially if the offense is not overly difficult to grasp. If the probabilities or timing were closer in comparison then many more teams looking to compete right away would simply hold on to their first or 2nd round pick and select a WR that way.

However the team first has to hit on the WR selection and then if they are looking to compete right away have to also hope he can play like an elite WR year 1 which unfortunately is often not the case.
I keep saying it  
djm : 2/4/2023 11:46 am : link
Look at the 2010 giants or last year‘s Niners or many many other teams over the last 20 years. Even just doing a drive-by glance at the player salaries on those teams will tell you that when teams are good and virtually all in, they are going to pay upwards of 12-15 big time salaries. Granted there’s nuance, there are some players that are going to be coming to an end and some players that are just entering their big earning years while some money is getting pushed and some money is getting absorbed that very year.

The key thing is these teams spread the money around. But make no mistake these teams pay a lot of players a lot of money the Giants did it in 2008-2013 and they’re going to do it now.

And with that said take a look at how many big time salaries the giants are paying right now.

Get ready for the giants to pay money to a lot of players. Prepare for the sticker shock. Some this offseason. Some more next offseason.
RE: I keep saying it  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/4/2023 12:20 pm : link
In comment 16024439 djm said:
Quote:
Look at the 2010 giants or last year‘s Niners or many many other teams over the last 20 years. Even just doing a drive-by glance at the player salaries on those teams will tell you that when teams are good and virtually all in, they are going to pay upwards of 12-15 big time salaries. Granted there’s nuance, there are some players that are going to be coming to an end and some players that are just entering their big earning years while some money is getting pushed and some money is getting absorbed that very year.

The key thing is these teams spread the money around. But make no mistake these teams pay a lot of players a lot of money the Giants did it in 2008-2013 and they’re going to do it now.

And with that said take a look at how many big time salaries the giants are paying right now.

Get ready for the giants to pay money to a lot of players. Prepare for the sticker shock. Some this offseason. Some more next offseason.


I think you nailed it. This happens quite often with the top contending teams. If fans do enough research for themselves they'll see it too.

This season showed that we have a strong foundation here between coaching and high level players at important positions. Once DJ is secured, I see them aggressively fortifying this team in FA and via a trade or two.
RE: The latest Mixon case is so weird  
RobThailand : 2/4/2023 2:40 pm : link
In comment 16024080 BlackLight said:
Quote:
The prosecutor asked that the charges be dropped for now, pending further investigation. Like, further investigation that might commence a week from Monday?

Of course the State AG got a call from a donor and magically it’s pushed
Eagles will get him  
Darth Paul : 2/5/2023 12:30 am : link
for a 4th and a 6th.
I’d love Higgins in Blue  
Eman11 : 2/5/2023 8:39 am : link
I think he’s a #1, big hand catching, clutch WR who would be perfect for the Giants and be huge for this O and Jones.

That said I think this isn’t the year to trade for him. We’re still quite a few pieces away from where the Eagles were last year when they gave up a #1 for Brown.

As much as I’d love Higgins on this team, I want to see what Shoen can do with the early pics this year. If we can get two starters at either CB,IOL,ILB and WR in the first two rds, sign a needed piece or two, we’d fill some of those holes, and be in good position to go after a top WR like Higgins for 24.

I think getting a WR like Tillman in rd 2 could possibly end up being our Higgins type guy. I think he’s terrific and could possibly be there for us in rd 2.
Higgins, beside the pick(s)  
section125 : 2/5/2023 8:47 am : link
needed for a trade is going to cost a ton of money in an extension. While it is nice to fantasize about him on the Giants, the reality is Schoen will not be spending big $$ on WRs at this point on the re-construction of the Giants. They survived with the WRs they had last year. They can draft WRs and pick up UDFAs and lower WRs in FA.
Until they get Jones, Barkley. Love and other of their own players re-signed, they will not be getting high priced FAs.

IMV, ILB is probably the only place they could spend money or a CB. Even then it is likely to be mid-level - guys in the $4-$6 mill AAV range.

Schoen has just gotten over being cash strapped, he is not going back.
RE: I’d love Higgins in Blue  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/5/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16024976 Eman11 said:
Quote:
I think he’s a #1, big hand catching, clutch WR

That said I think this isn’t the year to trade for him. We’re still quite a few pieces away from where the Eagles were last year when they gave up a #1 for Brown.



Are we though? That 2021 Eagles team barely made the playoffs and were trounced by a clearly superior team.

They traded for the #1 WR , got the 2nd M2M CB and added depth in a number of places.

The situations are not that too dissimilar from what I see.

-Giants have a QB that can make a similar jump that Hurts did.

-They have a promising TE in Bellinger

-They have pieces on the OL (though we can obviously add here too)

-The defense has a lot of pieces already in place to be elite: it just needs health, a 2nd M2M boundary corner, DL depth and a steady ILB.
RE: RE: I’d love Higgins in Blue  
Eman11 : 2/5/2023 12:07 pm : link
In comment 16025061 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024976 Eman11 said:


Quote:


I think he’s a #1, big hand catching, clutch WR

That said I think this isn’t the year to trade for him. We’re still quite a few pieces away from where the Eagles were last year when they gave up a #1 for Brown.





Are we though? That 2021 Eagles team barely made the playoffs and were trounced by a clearly superior team.

They traded for the #1 WR , got the 2nd M2M CB and added depth in a number of places.

The situations are not that too dissimilar from what I see.

-Giants have a QB that can make a similar jump that Hurts did.

-They have a promising TE in Bellinger

-They have pieces on the OL (though we can obviously add here too)

-The defense has a lot of pieces already in place to be elite: it just needs health, a 2nd M2M boundary corner, DL depth and a steady ILB.


I think your last sentence answers your first. Throw in cementing the interior OL and I don’t think we can afford to give up a 1st this year as much as I love Higgins and want him in blue.

If we can fill those holes and pick up a guy like Tillman in the draft we’d close the gap considerably and then pounce on 1-2 quality free agents for 24.

Now if we could get Higgins for a future #1 or not give up this years then count me in. I just want to try and fill as many holes as we can with draft picks this year.
RE: RE: RE: I’d love Higgins in Blue  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/5/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16025077 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 16025061 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024976 Eman11 said:


Quote:


I think he’s a #1, big hand catching, clutch WR

That said I think this isn’t the year to trade for him. We’re still quite a few pieces away from where the Eagles were last year when they gave up a #1 for Brown.





Are we though? That 2021 Eagles team barely made the playoffs and were trounced by a clearly superior team.

They traded for the #1 WR , got the 2nd M2M CB and added depth in a number of places.

The situations are not that too dissimilar from what I see.

-Giants have a QB that can make a similar jump that Hurts did.

-They have a promising TE in Bellinger

-They have pieces on the OL (though we can obviously add here too)

-The defense has a lot of pieces already in place to be elite: it just needs health, a 2nd M2M boundary corner, DL depth and a steady ILB.



I think your last sentence answers your first. Throw in cementing the interior OL and I don’t think we can afford to give up a 1st this year as much as I love Higgins and want him in blue.

If we can fill those holes and pick up a guy like Tillman in the draft we’d close the gap considerably and then pounce on 1-2 quality free agents for 24.

Now if we could get Higgins for a future #1 or not give up this years then count me in. I just want to try and fill as many holes as we can with draft picks this year.


Not unreasonable but I think there is enough cap flexibility between this year and beyond (179M in 2024) that NYG can compete for a championship as soon as next year just like the Eagles did.

The Eagles have guys like Bradberry, Reddick AJ Brown etc who were recent 'big' FA additions and major contributors to the team.

Would you be on board for Hopkins since he likely would not cost a 1st round pick?

Granted higher risk due to age and recent injury but last year he was on pace for a 1400yd season extrapolated over 17games and clearly still has it. He has been pretty dutable most of his career otherwise.

Hopkins
Hodgins -1 year older and have him for a full year
Addison (or other 1st rd WR pick)
James
Wan Dale

Thats a transformed WR room right there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’d love Higgins in Blue  
allstarjim : 2/6/2023 4:03 am : link
In comment 16025082 CornerStone246+17 said:
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In comment 16025077 Eman11 said:


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In comment 16025061 CornerStone246+17 said:


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In comment 16024976 Eman11 said:


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The Eagles have guys like Bradberry, Reddick AJ Brown etc who were recent 'big' FA additions and major contributors to the team.

Would you be on board for Hopkins since he likely would not cost a 1st round pick?

Granted higher risk due to age and recent injury but last year he was on pace for a 1400yd season extrapolated over 17games and clearly still has it. He has been pretty dutable most of his career otherwise.

Hopkins
Hodgins -1 year older and have him for a full year
Addison (or other 1st rd WR pick)
James
Wan Dale

Thats a transformed WR room right there.


Old and expensive. Going to cost something in terms of draft capital, even if not a first, which I'm not so sure about...no way. It's terrible. You can sign OBJ for less than half of what Hopkins will cost, and no draft compensation. Still hopefully get Addison in the first. Arguably better as long as OBJ stays on the field. Yeah I get it. Injury risk, right? Hopkins isn't without risk himself. But acquisition cost is way cheaper with as much upside.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’d love Higgins in Blue  
section125 : 2/6/2023 5:56 am : link
In comment 16025503 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16025082 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16025077 Eman11 said:


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In comment 16025061 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024976 Eman11 said:


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The Eagles have guys like Bradberry, Reddick AJ Brown etc who were recent 'big' FA additions and major contributors to the team.

Would you be on board for Hopkins since he likely would not cost a 1st round pick?

Granted higher risk due to age and recent injury but last year he was on pace for a 1400yd season extrapolated over 17games and clearly still has it. He has been pretty dutable most of his career otherwise.

Hopkins
Hodgins -1 year older and have him for a full year
Addison (or other 1st rd WR pick)
James
Wan Dale

Thats a transformed WR room right there.



Old and expensive. Going to cost something in terms of draft capital, even if not a first, which I'm not so sure about...no way. It's terrible. You can sign OBJ for less than half of what Hopkins will cost, and no draft compensation. Still hopefully get Addison in the first. Arguably better as long as OBJ stays on the field. Yeah I get it. Injury risk, right? Hopkins isn't without risk himself. But acquisition cost is way cheaper with as much upside.


There will be better FAs than OBJ out there. Do you really want a 2 x ACL surgery WR on a 3 year contract, not to mention the broken ankle.

No, Schoen will continue to look for upgrades at WR without breaking the bank in the FA market. But, watching the Eagles manhandle the Giants along the line probably gave him a clear vision on what is most important. They definitely need an upgrade at WR, but they need to build a line.
FWIW, it was Chase that stood out vs the Chiefs in the AFCC game. Higgins was ok, but Chase was the guy that Burrow looked to when moving the ball.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’d love Higgins in Blue  
CornerStone246+17 : 2/6/2023 8:28 am : link
In comment 16025503 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16025082 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16025077 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 16025061 CornerStone246+17 said:


Quote:


In comment 16024976 Eman11 said:


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The Eagles have guys like Bradberry, Reddick AJ Brown etc who were recent 'big' FA additions and major contributors to the team.

Would you be on board for Hopkins since he likely would not cost a 1st round pick?

Granted higher risk due to age and recent injury but last year he was on pace for a 1400yd season extrapolated over 17games and clearly still has it. He has been pretty dutable most of his career otherwise.

Hopkins
Hodgins -1 year older and have him for a full year
Addison (or other 1st rd WR pick)
James
Wan Dale

Thats a transformed WR room right there.



Old and expensive. Going to cost something in terms of draft capital, even if not a first, which I'm not so sure about...no way. It's terrible. You can sign OBJ for less than half of what Hopkins will cost, and no draft compensation. Still hopefully get Addison in the first. Arguably better as long as OBJ stays on the field. Yeah I get it. Injury risk, right? Hopkins isn't without risk himself. But acquisition cost is way cheaper with as much upside.


The injury history of OBJ vs Hopkins is no comparison. OBJs injury history dwarfs Hopkins. Hopkins has been quite durable throughout his career. OBj is not the same player . Hopkins was trending towards 1400 yds last year. His couple recent injuries dont seem to have sapped him of his ability nearly as much as OBJ has.

He isn't going to cost a 1. They are a motivated seller and there will likely be other options out there that will be a bit less risky that will cost a 1. If the Giants value their 1 and therefore would take more a bridge WR rather than a long term building block, Hopkins could make sense for them.
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