The Knicks and Jazz have had exploratory conversations surrounding Obi Toppin, Evan Fournier, and draft pick compensation for Malik Beasley and Jarred Vanderbilt, per
@MikeAScotto
scared to hear what the draft pick compensation is because Beasley/Vanderbilt are both good players.... Obi and Fournier (a guy they want to move)..and Ainge involved...
Tell him to go pound sand. I have no appetite to do business with that guy. He had his chance at Knicks players and picks. He can shove Beasley up his ass
Utah is seeking the equivalent of a first-round pick to acquire each player. In these particular trade talks, Toppin would potentially be that equivalent for Vanderbilt with Utah seeking a potential first-round pick for taking on Fournier’s salary ($18.86 million next season and $19 million team option for 2024-25) and parting with Beasley, who has a $16.5 million team option for next season. Thus far, New York has been reluctant to attach a first-round pick to move off Fournier’s salary.
Knicks senior basketball advisor Gersson Rosas has been a staunch supporter of Beasley and Vanderbilt since he traded for both players in the same four-team deal and eventually signed Beasley to a four-year, $60 million deal and Vanderbilt to a three-year, $13.8 million contract with the Timberwolves. Ironically, while Beasley was meeting with the Timberwolves and on the verge of agreeing to his contract, the current Knicks regime led by Leon Rose called to express interest in signing him, league sources told HoopsHype.
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
Because of capital not because of Rose.
Rose is hibernation like every February.
I feel like if they don't make the actual playoffs and have a decent show, Dolan is done and we will see a regime change
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Why would we want those two players? Yuck. Maybe we
want another chance to give Ainge 5 fucking picks?
First, we should not be making any trades with Thibs as the coach in mind. He should've been gone by now.
Second, what's the point of doing something for the sake of change? Does going from 41 wins to 43 do anything for you?
You have to trade Randle and maybe RJ if no viable trades present themselves. Thank god Turner is off the table. OG is a meh. I already watch little Knicks as it is, getting those 2 scrubs from Utah would end it for me.
Grimes has more game than Thibs is bringing out of him. And I refuse to believe the Toppin at the end of last season was a fluke. Thibs absolutely needs to go.
RE: Why would we want those two players? Yuck. Maybe we
want another chance to give Ainge 5 fucking picks?
First, we should not be making any trades with Thibs as the coach in mind. He should've been gone by now.
Second, what's the point of doing something for the sake of change? Does going from 41 wins to 43 do anything for you?
You have to trade Randle and maybe RJ if no viable trades present themselves. Thank god Turner is off the table. OG is a meh. I already watch little Knicks as it is, getting those 2 scrubs from Utah would end it for me.
Grimes has more game than Thibs is bringing out of him. And I refuse to believe the Toppin at the end of last season was a fluke. Thibs absolutely needs to go.
If they are 'only' giving up 1 first round pick and they are sending back players who arent good rotational fits in Thibs system for players that are better fits ....it might not be that bad a trade
no matter who the coach is, he is the 4th option on this team, so ye she may have more to his game but his role on this team is 3 and d, attack closeouts, which he has been very good at..
They arent going to run plays for him, they arent going to let him go 1 on 1...
Knicks are pushing the limit with 3 scorers in the starting lineup, you dont need to add another scorer, if you bring in a star they are replacing Rj or Randle
F that little prick. Find me another GM in the league that thinks Vanderbilt is as valuable and has the upside of Obi. The guy has finally been bounced from the starting lineup the past few weeks. Beasily is a perennial "per 48" guy that everyone thinks is gonna break out any day now but he's a nice little bench piece and that's it. I wouldn't put Obi in that deal. I'd trade him as part of getting a stud like OG or just hold on to him till you finally maybe fire Thibs this summer and find a coach that will finally figure out how to use him correctly to take advantage of his upside.
F that little prick. Find me another GM in the league that thinks Vanderbilt is as valuable and has the upside of Obi. The guy has finally been bounced from the starting lineup the past few weeks. Beasily is a perennial "per 48" guy that everyone thinks is gonna break out any day now but he's a nice little bench piece and that's it. I wouldn't put Obi in that deal. I'd trade him as part of getting a stud like OG or just hold on to him till you finally maybe fire Thibs this summer and find a coach that will finally figure out how to use him correctly to take advantage of his upside.
As valuable as? I’d argue pretty easily Vanderbilt is as/more valuable than Obi. Higher upside, Obi takes it. If the Knicks swapped them one for one, nobody would be saying “wow the Knicks got fleeced”.
Thibs system shouldn't be a thing. It's Rose or Randle and everybody
Grimes and Toppin needed to take big steps this season to transform the outlook of this roster, of course that's not happening. To trade for similar role players with lesser upside, and giving away draft picks (not that they want to use them anyway) in the process, just makes no sense.
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
I know you hate Grimes, but come on. He had been in a slump from three point range in general for the past couple of weeks - he wasn't just missing them late in games. He's hit plenty of big shots this season (as has RJ).
F that little prick. Find me another GM in the league that thinks Vanderbilt is as valuable and has the upside of Obi. The guy has finally been bounced from the starting lineup the past few weeks. Beasily is a perennial "per 48" guy that everyone thinks is gonna break out any day now but he's a nice little bench piece and that's it. I wouldn't put Obi in that deal. I'd trade him as part of getting a stud like OG or just hold on to him till you finally maybe fire Thibs this summer and find a coach that will finally figure out how to use him correctly to take advantage of his upside.
As valuable as? I’d argue pretty easily Vanderbilt is as/more valuable than Obi. Higher upside, Obi takes it. If the Knicks swapped them one for one, nobody would be saying “wow the Knicks got fleeced”.
Vanderbilt and Toppin are 2 different players.
Toppings ceiling is higher on the offensive side but Vanderbilt is what this team needs when Randle goes out.
He defends and rebounds he is never going to be a highlight reel player like Obi.
He is an old school grinder/dirty work player. I can see why the Knicks want him he works better on this current team
F that little prick. Find me another GM in the league that thinks Vanderbilt is as valuable and has the upside of Obi. The guy has finally been bounced from the starting lineup the past few weeks. Beasily is a perennial "per 48" guy that everyone thinks is gonna break out any day now but he's a nice little bench piece and that's it. I wouldn't put Obi in that deal. I'd trade him as part of getting a stud like OG or just hold on to him till you finally maybe fire Thibs this summer and find a coach that will finally figure out how to use him correctly to take advantage of his upside.
As valuable as? I’d argue pretty easily Vanderbilt is as/more valuable than Obi. Higher upside, Obi takes it. If the Knicks swapped them one for one, nobody would be saying “wow the Knicks got fleeced”.
Dan if Obi was gifted the minutes Vanderbilt has this season you'd see the difference.
Is no arguing against the fact Obi has been jerked around but Vanderbilt is averaging 8 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists on 56% shooting , 24 minutes per game and won’t be 24 until April. Obi obviously has more offensive upside but one for one, it’s not clear to me at all that the Jazz win that swap unless we are talking about highlight reels.
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
Larry right now until he proves otherwise RJ is an pretty inefficient ball dominant volume scorer with an inconsistent 3 ball and of late inconsistent defense as well.
With 2 ball dominant but more efficient players already on the team in Randle and Brunson , RJ is ticketed as the odd man out if they get another potentially ball dominant Superstar. Hes already being subbed out late in games as he is not.proving reliable and Brunson and Randle are clearly favored by Thibs.
OG is also a bit of a scorer but more off ball and a little more within the flow of the offense. Also he is the ultimate defensive chess peice who can gaurd all 5 positions and back up Randle at PF with meaningful minutes.
If they got OG and then also went for the hopefully clinching superstar final piece, RJ definitely seems like the guy they would most likely move in that trade. However a trade is a 2 way street and if the other teams insists on Randle maybe it turns out differently. However right now I think if the Knicks had their choice it'd be RJ that goes in a deal for the Superstar just like it sounded like for Donovan Mitchell.
Is no arguing against the fact Obi has been jerked around but Vanderbilt is averaging 8 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists on 56% shooting , 24 minutes per game and won’t be 24 until April. Obi obviously has more offensive upside but one for one, it’s not clear to me at all that the Jazz win that swap unless we are talking about highlight reels.
In the 7 games since January 18 when he was yanked from the starting lineup he's averaging about 19mpg 6 points 6 rebs. As previously stated in the thread they're different types of players and I didn't mean to come across that Obi is way better. I'm just saying if you polled the GMs I suspect most would value Obi more especially because in a trade upside has to be factored in. Any way this trade does nothing for me. And for those clamoring that Vanderbilt fits better, after watching his nothing offensive game you'd get sick of him just like you do Deuce the more you see him every night...
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
Exactly. OG , Grimes and Quickley are off ball and trading RJ out for the Superstar would keep the 'balance' of not having too many ball dominant scorers.
RE: Why would we want those two players? Yuck. Maybe we
want another chance to give Ainge 5 fucking picks?
First, we should not be making any trades with Thibs as the coach in mind. He should've been gone by now.
Second, what's the point of doing something for the sake of change? Does going from 41 wins to 43 do anything for you?
You have to trade Randle and maybe RJ if no viable trades present themselves. Thank god Turner is off the table. OG is a meh. I already watch little Knicks as it is, getting those 2 scrubs from Utah would end it for me.
Grimes has more game than Thibs is bringing out of him. And I refuse to believe the Toppin at the end of last season was a fluke. Thibs absolutely needs to go.
You don’t watch them but you’re certain of a lot of things that mostly involve trading their best player away and firing the HC. And grimes is being held back despite playing a lot of minutes.
Ok. So we blow it all up. Fire the HC. Bring in some new HC and suck balls for the next few seasons. And then what.
But I know the guy can develop and nurture NBA talent. He’s only done this for 20 years now. He’s not an idiot even if his down the stretch of games offenses can be messy.
Obi can’t really defend on a good level. Isn’t a good rebounder. Can’t really get his own shot. Can’t shoot off the dribble.
He Can shoot the spot up 3 and can finish in the open floor.
He can do two things. He’s a limited PF until proven otherwise. Watch these games and tell me I’m wrong. He’s Kenny Walker with a corner 3 shot. Sorry, he just is.
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
Exactly. OG , Grimes and Quickley are off ball and trading RJ out for the Superstar would keep the 'balance' of not having too many ball dominant scorers.
They are not trading for a star!!
That's the point RJ and OG work better together
Than Grimes and OG.
Stop with the dream of a star bullshit it's been 12 years of it, can we just stop already.
How many swing and misses to we have to have before reality sets in.
I listen to you guys make up scenarios all day long SGA, Booker, Etc it dreams and nonsense.
But I do take offense when folks criticize Thibs.
He is a great coach who has developed multiple guys over the years who weren't top draft picks....
The very fact that Derrick Rose and the other ex-Bulls Taj Gibson wanted to come here to play speaks volumes....
Do I agree he is stubborn as a mule,yes,is here perfect?NO
But I am happy he is our coach,and if we fired him,he would have a job in a matter of days
But I know the guy can develop and nurture NBA talent. He’s only done this for 20 years now. He’s not an idiot even if his down the stretch of games offenses can be messy.
Obi can’t really defend on a good level. Isn’t a good rebounder. Can’t really get his own shot. Can’t shoot off the dribble.
He Can shoot the spot up 3 and can finish in the open floor.
He can do two things. He’s a limited PF until proven otherwise. Watch these games and tell me I’m wrong. He’s Kenny Walker with a corner 3 shot. Sorry, he just is.
But we are not trading with Ainge (maybe ever). Trust me unless it’s so slanted towards us. Front office hates this guy and as far as I know won’t even talk to him. Maybe lower executives but not the boys making the decisions.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m all for trading RJ
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
Exactly. OG , Grimes and Quickley are off ball and trading RJ out for the Superstar would keep the 'balance' of not having too many ball dominant scorers.
They are not trading for a star!!
That's the point RJ and OG work better together
Than Grimes and OG.
Stop with the dream of a star bullshit it's been 12 years of it, can we just stop already.
How many swing and misses to we have to have before reality sets in.
I listen to you guys make up scenarios all day long SGA, Booker, Etc it dreams and nonsense.
What do you think all the accumulation of assets has been for? I get the waiting and waiting sucks but their full intention is to get a superstar here. That is clear as day.
They have succeeded in accumulating the assets but have to finally close out a deal. If they don't it won't be because they don't have the assets nor aren't trying to it'll be because they couldn't come to agreement on price or simply weren't good enough negotiating. It that an indictment on Rose ? Possibly. Guess we'll see.
But we are not trading with Ainge (maybe ever). Trust me unless it’s so slanted towards us. Front office hates this guy and as far as I know won’t even talk to him. Maybe lower executives but not the boys making the decisions.
Yeah I could see that. After the debacle of this summer I'm sure Rose & co have no desire to engage that little prick Ainge.
Wonder if he is like plan c
Knicks senior basketball advisor Gersson Rosas has been a staunch supporter of Beasley and Vanderbilt since he traded for both players in the same four-team deal and eventually signed Beasley to a four-year, $60 million deal and Vanderbilt to a three-year, $13.8 million contract with the Timberwolves. Ironically, while Beasley was meeting with the Timberwolves and on the verge of agreeing to his contract, the current Knicks regime led by Leon Rose called to express interest in signing him, league sources told HoopsHype.
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
If I'm reading it right, Obi would satisfy instead of a first. So it would be Obi, Fournier and a 1st. Hopefully its the right first.
Quote:
They can have the protected 1sts..
If I'm reading it right, Obi would satisfy instead of a first. So it would be Obi, Fournier and a 1st. Hopefully its the right first.
They want a 1st for Beasley and want a 1st to take on Fournier
That's not bad. He's looking at what's out there and talking, but holding out for a deal that works for his team.
Quote:
In comment 16024405 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
They can have the protected 1sts..
If I'm reading it right, Obi would satisfy instead of a first. So it would be Obi, Fournier and a 1st. Hopefully its the right first.
They want a 1st for Beasley and want a 1st to take on Fournier
why not just trade Rose (who's expiring) instead of Fournier?
A PF who can’t shoot threes
A SG who would be 4th on the depth chart
A PF who can’t shoot threes
A SG who would be 4th on the depth chart
He would replace Mcbride and lower minutes for Brunson and Rj
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
Rose is hibernation like every February.
I feel like if they don't make the actual playoffs and have a decent show, Dolan is done and we will see a regime change
Quote:
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
First, we should not be making any trades with Thibs as the coach in mind. He should've been gone by now.
Second, what's the point of doing something for the sake of change? Does going from 41 wins to 43 do anything for you?
You have to trade Randle and maybe RJ if no viable trades present themselves. Thank god Turner is off the table. OG is a meh. I already watch little Knicks as it is, getting those 2 scrubs from Utah would end it for me.
Grimes has more game than Thibs is bringing out of him. And I refuse to believe the Toppin at the end of last season was a fluke. Thibs absolutely needs to go.
First, we should not be making any trades with Thibs as the coach in mind. He should've been gone by now.
Second, what's the point of doing something for the sake of change? Does going from 41 wins to 43 do anything for you?
You have to trade Randle and maybe RJ if no viable trades present themselves. Thank god Turner is off the table. OG is a meh. I already watch little Knicks as it is, getting those 2 scrubs from Utah would end it for me.
Grimes has more game than Thibs is bringing out of him. And I refuse to believe the Toppin at the end of last season was a fluke. Thibs absolutely needs to go.
If they are 'only' giving up 1 first round pick and they are sending back players who arent good rotational fits in Thibs system for players that are better fits ....it might not be that bad a trade
They arent going to run plays for him, they arent going to let him go 1 on 1...
Knicks are pushing the limit with 3 scorers in the starting lineup, you dont need to add another scorer, if you bring in a star they are replacing Rj or Randle
As valuable as? I’d argue pretty easily Vanderbilt is as/more valuable than Obi. Higher upside, Obi takes it. If the Knicks swapped them one for one, nobody would be saying “wow the Knicks got fleeced”.
Grimes and Toppin needed to take big steps this season to transform the outlook of this roster, of course that's not happening. To trade for similar role players with lesser upside, and giving away draft picks (not that they want to use them anyway) in the process, just makes no sense.
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In comment 16024410 Earl the goat said:
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RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
I know you hate Grimes, but come on. He had been in a slump from three point range in general for the past couple of weeks - he wasn't just missing them late in games. He's hit plenty of big shots this season (as has RJ).
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F that little prick. Find me another GM in the league that thinks Vanderbilt is as valuable and has the upside of Obi. The guy has finally been bounced from the starting lineup the past few weeks. Beasily is a perennial "per 48" guy that everyone thinks is gonna break out any day now but he's a nice little bench piece and that's it. I wouldn't put Obi in that deal. I'd trade him as part of getting a stud like OG or just hold on to him till you finally maybe fire Thibs this summer and find a coach that will finally figure out how to use him correctly to take advantage of his upside.
As valuable as? I’d argue pretty easily Vanderbilt is as/more valuable than Obi. Higher upside, Obi takes it. If the Knicks swapped them one for one, nobody would be saying “wow the Knicks got fleeced”.
Vanderbilt and Toppin are 2 different players.
Toppings ceiling is higher on the offensive side but Vanderbilt is what this team needs when Randle goes out.
He defends and rebounds he is never going to be a highlight reel player like Obi.
He is an old school grinder/dirty work player. I can see why the Knicks want him he works better on this current team
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F that little prick. Find me another GM in the league that thinks Vanderbilt is as valuable and has the upside of Obi. The guy has finally been bounced from the starting lineup the past few weeks. Beasily is a perennial "per 48" guy that everyone thinks is gonna break out any day now but he's a nice little bench piece and that's it. I wouldn't put Obi in that deal. I'd trade him as part of getting a stud like OG or just hold on to him till you finally maybe fire Thibs this summer and find a coach that will finally figure out how to use him correctly to take advantage of his upside.
As valuable as? I’d argue pretty easily Vanderbilt is as/more valuable than Obi. Higher upside, Obi takes it. If the Knicks swapped them one for one, nobody would be saying “wow the Knicks got fleeced”.
Dan if Obi was gifted the minutes Vanderbilt has this season you'd see the difference.
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In comment 16024462 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16024410 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
Larry right now until he proves otherwise RJ is an pretty inefficient ball dominant volume scorer with an inconsistent 3 ball and of late inconsistent defense as well.
With 2 ball dominant but more efficient players already on the team in Randle and Brunson , RJ is ticketed as the odd man out if they get another potentially ball dominant Superstar. Hes already being subbed out late in games as he is not.proving reliable and Brunson and Randle are clearly favored by Thibs.
OG is also a bit of a scorer but more off ball and a little more within the flow of the offense. Also he is the ultimate defensive chess peice who can gaurd all 5 positions and back up Randle at PF with meaningful minutes.
If they got OG and then also went for the hopefully clinching superstar final piece, RJ definitely seems like the guy they would most likely move in that trade. However a trade is a 2 way street and if the other teams insists on Randle maybe it turns out differently. However right now I think if the Knicks had their choice it'd be RJ that goes in a deal for the Superstar just like it sounded like for Donovan Mitchell.
In the 7 games since January 18 when he was yanked from the starting lineup he's averaging about 19mpg 6 points 6 rebs. As previously stated in the thread they're different types of players and I didn't mean to come across that Obi is way better. I'm just saying if you polled the GMs I suspect most would value Obi more especially because in a trade upside has to be factored in. Any way this trade does nothing for me. And for those clamoring that Vanderbilt fits better, after watching his nothing offensive game you'd get sick of him just like you do Deuce the more you see him every night...
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In comment 16024462 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024410 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
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In comment 16024470 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024462 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024410 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
Exactly. OG , Grimes and Quickley are off ball and trading RJ out for the Superstar would keep the 'balance' of not having too many ball dominant scorers.
First, we should not be making any trades with Thibs as the coach in mind. He should've been gone by now.
Second, what's the point of doing something for the sake of change? Does going from 41 wins to 43 do anything for you?
You have to trade Randle and maybe RJ if no viable trades present themselves. Thank god Turner is off the table. OG is a meh. I already watch little Knicks as it is, getting those 2 scrubs from Utah would end it for me.
Grimes has more game than Thibs is bringing out of him. And I refuse to believe the Toppin at the end of last season was a fluke. Thibs absolutely needs to go.
You don’t watch them but you’re certain of a lot of things that mostly involve trading their best player away and firing the HC. And grimes is being held back despite playing a lot of minutes.
Ok. So we blow it all up. Fire the HC. Bring in some new HC and suck balls for the next few seasons. And then what.
Obi can’t really defend on a good level. Isn’t a good rebounder. Can’t really get his own shot. Can’t shoot off the dribble.
He Can shoot the spot up 3 and can finish in the open floor.
He can do two things. He’s a limited PF until proven otherwise. Watch these games and tell me I’m wrong. He’s Kenny Walker with a corner 3 shot. Sorry, he just is.
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In comment 16024528 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024470 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024462 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024410 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
Exactly. OG , Grimes and Quickley are off ball and trading RJ out for the Superstar would keep the 'balance' of not having too many ball dominant scorers.
They are not trading for a star!!
That's the point RJ and OG work better together
Than Grimes and OG.
Stop with the dream of a star bullshit it's been 12 years of it, can we just stop already.
How many swing and misses to we have to have before reality sets in.
I listen to you guys make up scenarios all day long SGA, Booker, Etc it dreams and nonsense.
He is a great coach who has developed multiple guys over the years who weren't top draft picks....
The very fact that Derrick Rose and the other ex-Bulls Taj Gibson wanted to come here to play speaks volumes....
Do I agree he is stubborn as a mule,yes,is here perfect?NO
But I am happy he is our coach,and if we fired him,he would have a job in a matter of days
Obi can’t really defend on a good level. Isn’t a good rebounder. Can’t really get his own shot. Can’t shoot off the dribble.
He Can shoot the spot up 3 and can finish in the open floor.
He can do two things. He’s a limited PF until proven otherwise. Watch these games and tell me I’m wrong. He’s Kenny Walker with a corner 3 shot. Sorry, he just is.
Not quite. Walker was a good defender.
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In comment 16024559 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024528 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024470 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024462 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024410 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
RJ and Fournier
For OG and a salary filler (porter) along with a pick or two
Why am I all for trading RJ
1. Him and grimes seem to play same position and I’d rather have Grimes
2. OG bigger and stronger and much better defender than RJ
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Then. Reddish. Rose. Hart and OBI Draft compensation for Demar Derozan and Patrick Williams Bulls just might be going into rebuild. Don’t want or need Lavine
Gives us a Bench of Simms. IQ. Williams and Derozan Lots of scoring coming off bench
Grimes' offensive game is weak and they are the same age.
OG and Grimes play the same role limited offensive game and OG is a better on ball defender and has better size.
OG is what Grimes wants to grow up to be.
If they trade for OG he helps RJ and Grimes goes to the bench.
If they trade for OG, RJ is likely next to go for the elusive Star/ Super-star.
Pure speculation on your part more than likely it frees you up to move Grimes.
They are the same player except OG is taller and is a better defender.
Can switch and guard all 5 positions.
OG makes them better because he is a veteran player that has been through the grind. Grimes has played a total of 85 games and struggles in big moments now.
If you know and watch Thibs this is his wheel house.
You arent adding a star to Brunson, Rj, Randle, it makes no sense and wouodnt work..
You cant have that many scorers in one lineup...
Exactly. OG , Grimes and Quickley are off ball and trading RJ out for the Superstar would keep the 'balance' of not having too many ball dominant scorers.
They are not trading for a star!!
That's the point RJ and OG work better together
Than Grimes and OG.
Stop with the dream of a star bullshit it's been 12 years of it, can we just stop already.
How many swing and misses to we have to have before reality sets in.
I listen to you guys make up scenarios all day long SGA, Booker, Etc it dreams and nonsense.
What do you think all the accumulation of assets has been for? I get the waiting and waiting sucks but their full intention is to get a superstar here. That is clear as day.
They have succeeded in accumulating the assets but have to finally close out a deal. If they don't it won't be because they don't have the assets nor aren't trying to it'll be because they couldn't come to agreement on price or simply weren't good enough negotiating. It that an indictment on Rose ? Possibly. Guess we'll see.
Yeah I could see that. After the debacle of this summer I'm sure Rose & co have no desire to engage that little prick Ainge.