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NFT: Mets: Welp.... Matt Allan "UCL revision surgery"

DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 1:09 pm
in January. Sad
It's  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 1:11 pm : link
believed he will miss the 2023 season. Very well may be career ending at this point.
Need  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 1:12 pm : link
some more confirmation but I was told this is basically a second TJ with the same time frame (12-18 months). Meaning mid-season 2024...
Wow  
Payasdaddy : 2/4/2023 1:16 pm : link
No wonder we haven’t heard anything
Seriously, how did that get screwed up so bad
Poor surgery or too aggressive rehab.
Mets need to draft 5 pitchers this yr
RE: Wow  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 1:18 pm : link
In comment 16024502 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
No wonder we haven’t heard anything
Seriously, how did that get screwed up so bad
Poor surgery or too aggressive rehab.
Mets need to draft 5 pitchers this yr


Sure does explain why they were so hush-hush on him.
Poor Guy  
Dennis : 2/4/2023 1:20 pm : link
Imagine how he must feel? I feel bad for him.
damn  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 1:23 pm : link
pitchers break is the truest thing in sports. this is why i couldnt fault them over the rocker thing.

i know the mets are doing the $$$$ on pitching while using all their high picks on position players more out of necessity right now than strategy, but long term it's hard for me to think that's not a great strategy.

if you draft a pitcher you not only need them to stay healthy in the big leagues, but also 3-4 years before that when they are in the minors. a lot to ask.
RE: Poor Guy  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16024508 Dennis said:
Quote:
Imagine how he must feel? I feel bad for him.


Pretty crappy to have 3 surgeries (2 major) + no 2020 season (because COVID canceled the 2020 season) sitting here in 2023. Drafted in 2019. Very sad for him
well here's the one positive for him - he got a 2.5m signing bonus  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 1:26 pm : link
if all this crap happened to him at UF he'd have gotten a very small fraction of that as a late round pick if at all.
You just have to  
pjcas18 : 2/4/2023 1:50 pm : link
one up the Yankees, don't you?

lol (joking obviously). Sucks for Allan, but kind of figured this was the case.
Sucks man  
JB_in_DC : 2/4/2023 2:00 pm : link
Can’t imagine the frustration
Mets pitching prospects  
Vanzetti : 2/4/2023 2:50 pm : link
Tidwell has a shoulder problem and Ziegler twice had to be shut down. Very likely he needs surgery at some point

Mets really need Vasil or some of the other mid tier guys to develop.
at this point  
Rory : 2/4/2023 3:30 pm : link
you have to very likely consider one of the top 5 in the system will be moved at some point to obtain some prospect pitching.

Especially if they extend Alonso.
RE: at this point  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16024589 Rory said:
Quote:
you have to very likely consider one of the top 5 in the system will be moved at some point to obtain some prospect pitching.

Especially if they extend Alonso.


why trade for a pitching prospect when you can just trade for a healthy MLB SP?

just have to keep producing enough top 100 ish prospects to be able to trade for a new chris bassitt mid rotation type when necessary.

and continue spending 100m+ on an aces every few years.
It depends on the prospect  
pjcas18 : 2/4/2023 3:48 pm : link
I'd trade one of the Mets top 5 in a package for Grayson Rodriguez but even he's had injury issues creep up already or a Gavin Williams or Hunter Brown level prospect.

I'd definitely include one or more in a package for Ohtani if we could extend him as a condition.

No guarantee a healthy SP doesn't get hurt after a trade to the Mets (or anywhere).
RE: It depends on the prospect  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 3:57 pm : link
In comment 16024601 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


No guarantee a healthy SP doesn't get hurt after a trade to the Mets (or anywhere).


i would think the odds are lesser though just because the day you trade for an MLB pitcher they are healthy and can start the next day. a prospect at A ball you need to stay healthy for 2 years and few hundred innings as they develop, and then who knows how many additional innings as they figure things out at the mlb level.

time is the enemy with pitchers, they all break. more time to break more chances they break.

but yes 100% on ohtani. id imagine the 500m check is already waiting for him.

and if not him then maybe a big offer on corbin burnes. or the next big pitcher from japan.

and if not him then trade another JT Ginn for Bassitt.

i think that's a better recipe for finding quality pitching then spending 40-50% of the draft bonus pools on 1 pitcher like they almost did with rocker (even if his MRI was clean).
RE: RE: It depends on the prospect  
pjcas18 : 2/4/2023 4:05 pm : link
In comment 16024609 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16024601 pjcas18 said:


Quote:




No guarantee a healthy SP doesn't get hurt after a trade to the Mets (or anywhere).



i would think the odds are lesser though just because the day you trade for an MLB pitcher they are healthy and can start the next day. a prospect at A ball you need to stay healthy for 2 years and few hundred innings as they develop, and then who knows how many additional innings as they figure things out at the mlb level.

time is the enemy with pitchers, they all break. more time to break more chances they break.

but yes 100% on ohtani. id imagine the 500m check is already waiting for him.

and if not him then maybe a big offer on corbin burnes. or the next big pitcher from japan.

and if not him then trade another JT Ginn for Bassitt.

i think that's a better recipe for finding quality pitching then spending 40-50% of the draft bonus pools on 1 pitcher like they almost did with rocker (even if his MRI was clean).


Agree, that's why I purposely listed prospects who could realistically debut in 2023. I think all 3 of them will be in the majors in 2023 if they don't start there.

I'd trade Vientos or Mauricio (or maybe both if I had to) in a package for any of those three younger prospects I listed (Grayson Rodriguez, Gavin Williams and Hunter Brown), would you? especially if the Mets intend to extend Alonso.

Vientos MLB options on the Mets are limited.

Mauricio has to move off SS.

Those two won't get it done probably. I'd pivot to a Baty plus package if needed.

I'd try not to trade Alvarez, Parada, Ramirez, or Williams.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 4:06 pm : link
don't see why Colorado would be eager to move him but I'd make a call about Justin Lawrence. The results haven't been incredible but he's up to 98 MPH from a SIDEARM slot, with a nasty slider. Reminds me a bit of Jeff Nelson. #1 rated slider in baseball by stuff+
Link - ( New Window )
Parada  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2023 4:10 pm : link
expected to open the season A+ (BK)
vientos id consider moving at the deadline but probably not before  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 4:36 pm : link
for 2 reasons.

1 we don't know what we need most yet.
2 he may provide exactly what's needed more than a pitcher.

his agent is BVW and ironically enough he posted a comp to alonso that got roasted on twitter but i do think people dismiss needlessly whatever the fringe possibility of that working out is (let's say 10%) or any slightly lesser but still very good outcome at 75% of alonso. you'd think so soon after gimenez fringe outcomes wouldnt be written off so quickly.

obviously if the angels called about ohtani id consider anything (vientos and beyond).

but since the mets specifically lack a middle order power bat right now i'd be hesitant to trade any of their big 4 power bats at AAA unless it was part of a package returning a middle order bat.
Well we discuss this often  
pjcas18 : 2/4/2023 4:41 pm : link
my team is less reliant on a big bat more on a consistent bat and emphasizes defense, so a team with Alonso, Baty, and Vientos is not my ideal. one or two probably need to go.

And no one wants to do it, but Alonso may be the best to go if $$$ ever does matter.

And he would also (today) get the most back.
and to clarify vientos is a lot more tradable than baty/alvarez  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 4:42 pm : link
because they may play premium positions. if vientos hits like 80-90% of alonso that's premium even if he's DH'ing but that's a high bar. it's basically "better than lucas duda", which i think is very much a reasonable outcome for vientos, but also an acceptable one to trade for a potential impact player at the deadline.
RE: Well we discuss this often  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 4:48 pm : link
In comment 16024635 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
my team is less reliant on a big bat more on a consistent bat and emphasizes defense, so a team with Alonso, Baty, and Vientos is not my ideal. one or two probably need to go.

And no one wants to do it, but Alonso may be the best to go if $$$ ever does matter.

And he would also (today) get the most back.


baty could end up being a LF and Alonso has been better than expected (average) at 1b but i dont totally disagree - i just dont think it's nearly the scale of a problem like flores at ss or something like that.

as much as ive compared vientos/alonso bats, i actually think austin riley is the closer similarity. and his glove is cautionary for baty bc i didnt think he was going to stick at 3b but last year he looked pretty good even though the metrics were mixed.
Alonso's  
pjcas18 : 2/4/2023 4:56 pm : link
defensive "woes" were greatly overestimated. Some scouts claimed his glove was "unplayable" at 1B at the major league level.

He's been ok, definitely not as bad as advertised, but certainly room for improvement (defensively).
RE: RE: Well we discuss this often  
Rory : 2/4/2023 5:04 pm : link
In comment 16024640 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16024635 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


my team is less reliant on a big bat more on a consistent bat and emphasizes defense, so a team with Alonso, Baty, and Vientos is not my ideal. one or two probably need to go.

And no one wants to do it, but Alonso may be the best to go if $$$ ever does matter.

And he would also (today) get the most back.



baty could end up being a LF and Alonso has been better than expected (average) at 1b but i dont totally disagree - i just dont think it's nearly the scale of a problem like flores at ss or something like that.

as much as ive compared vientos/alonso bats, i actually think austin riley is the closer similarity. and his glove is cautionary for baty bc i didnt think he was going to stick at 3b but last year he looked pretty good even though the metrics were mixed.


It took a few years but Alonso, McNeil, and Nimmo all got much better defensively and before them was Rosario and Gimenez.

Mets player development department is becoming a well oiled machine.

Ill also add the Dom Smith saga is so weird.

but yea lets see how this new crop stacks up.
RE: Alonso's  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 5:22 pm : link
In comment 16024642 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
defensive "woes" were greatly overestimated. Some scouts claimed his glove was "unplayable" at 1B at the major league level.

He's been ok, definitely not as bad as advertised, but certainly room for improvement (defensively).


no disagreement but competent defensive 1b on the bench are dime a dozen if there's ever a need to move pete to dh late game.

in the last 7 or 8 years we've seen a lot of evidence that glove is correctly the tool considered to be the most improvable (conforto, nimmo, alonso) so i'd be pretty slow moving off any young corner as long as there's any glimmer of hope (and especially if they are working hard on their d like alonso/baty appear to be). even flores did a lot better at SS than all the dire warnings.
RE: RE: RE: Well we discuss this often  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 5:24 pm : link
In comment 16024646 Rory said:
Quote:


It took a few years but Alonso, McNeil, and Nimmo all got much better defensively and before them was Rosario and Gimenez.

Mets player development department is becoming a well oiled machine.

Ill also add the Dom Smith saga is so weird.

but yea lets see how this new crop stacks up.


dom in LF is another one where he was a lot more playable there than originally expected. i dont think anyone expected the glove to be less of a problem than his bat.
RE: Well we discuss this often  
Vanzetti : 2/4/2023 5:35 pm : link
In comment 16024635 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
my team is less reliant on a big bat more on a consistent bat and emphasizes defense, so a team with Alonso, Baty, and Vientos is not my ideal. one or two probably need to go.

And no one wants to do it, but Alonso may be the best to go if $$$ ever does matter.

And he would also (today) get the most back.


From a pure baseball perspective, it makes sense to trade Alonso and play Vientos or Brady there. But Allonzo is the heart and soul of the team. I don’t think you can trade him
alonso gets headlines for power but as a contact hitter hes underrated  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 5:45 pm : link
mcneil is obviously one of the best hitters in baseball and marte over his career has been on that list as well.

after that i think alonso's the best contact hitter on the team. he and lindor are close but alonso takes more consistent at bats. nimmo also very close.

but that's kind of my point - pete is as good of a contact hitter as most of the other good hitters on the team - and he hits for power like only a few others in the sport.
What a bummer...  
moze1021 : 2/4/2023 6:02 pm : link
Very unlikely he ever throws a pitch in MLB at this point. Another example of how you just never know with aptly named "prospects"
sad career  
KDavies : 2/4/2023 6:50 pm : link
this is why I favor going hitting in the 1st round. Pitchers are too vulnerable to injury. No problem investing a 2nd in the upside.

Mets do need a young pitching infusion. 7 out of the first 150 picks I think it was. I’d make 5 of them pitchers
RE: sad career  
moze1021 : 2/4/2023 7:26 pm : link
In comment 16024694 KDavies said:
Quote:
this is why I favor going hitting in the 1st round. Pitchers are too vulnerable to injury. No problem investing a 2nd in the upside.

Mets do need a young pitching infusion. 7 out of the first 150 picks I think it was. I’d make 5 of them pitchers


Funny my perspective would be to always go pitcher in 1st round because having a cost controlled ace is so rare and valuable and filling positional holes is easier
RE: RE: sad career  
KDavies : 2/4/2023 7:31 pm : link
In comment 16024713 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 16024694 KDavies said:


Quote:


this is why I favor going hitting in the 1st round. Pitchers are too vulnerable to injury. No problem investing a 2nd in the upside.

Mets do need a young pitching infusion. 7 out of the first 150 picks I think it was. I’d make 5 of them pitchers



Funny my perspective would be to always go pitcher in 1st round because having a cost controlled ace is so rare and valuable and filling positional holes is easier


Agreed, if you can get a Verlander. Too many injuries though. Mets may go that direction this year since they are picking so late and they are so loaded in young position players.
Reminiscent  
Maximus, Esq. : 2/4/2023 9:55 pm : link
Of former Rays top pitching prospect Brent Honeywell.

I think Vasil makes a big step forward this year for Mets.
taking pitchers first rd every year sounds like a disaster to me  
Eric on Li : 2/4/2023 10:14 pm : link
first contracts are 6 years. 3x minimum salary, 3x arb. even with guys who worked out like harvey and wheeler, did it really work out? each of them missed 2 or more full years of their first contracts. in 3 years bartolo colon started the same number of games as a met as harvey. soroka was a great first round pick by atlanta. almost won ROY in 2019. he's in his 2nd to last arb year and he's only made 37 starts for atlanta.

position players in the first round all day for me unless it's a phenom you can't pass up. they play every day and the chances of injury are a fraction of pitchers. the most important ability is availability.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/5/2023 5:19 pm : link
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
10m
BREAKING: According to @JonHeyman
, Carlos Beltran is leaving @YESNetwork
for a job in the #Mets front office. #LGM
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