Not a good trade for the Mavs. Knowing Irving, he'll get distracted the first time he passes Dealey Plaza & quits basketball to become the Jim Garrison of the 21st century.
Not a good trade for the Mavs. Knowing Irving, he'll get distracted the first time he passes Dealey Plaza & quits basketball to become the Jim Garrison of the 21st century.
Not a good trade for the Mavs. Knowing Irving, he'll get distracted the first time he passes Dealey Plaza & quits basketball to become the Jim Garrison of the 21st century.
It's little to no risk. They're not giving up anything with much value
Strahan/Mook...post was tongue in cheek. Yeah...not a bad deal for the Mavs. But I totally expect him to eventually go off the deep end there. He does everywhere. He is loco.
But apparently the Knicks can’t even think of getting kyrie.
I mean there was the whole anti semitic angle, which I nearly forgot about until this very moment, so I guess it was never realistic here. Dallas doesn’t care.
Oh well, there goes a legit super star that can close games and win playoff games. On to the next pipe dream.
RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
But apparently the Knicks can’t even think of getting kyrie.
I mean there was the whole anti semitic angle, which I nearly forgot about until this very moment, so I guess it was never realistic here. Dallas doesn’t care.
Oh well, there goes a legit super star that can close games and win playoff games. On to the next pipe dream.
Harden forced his way out because of Kyrie, saddling the Nets with Ben Simmons. Durant will probably do the same this summer.
Not a single informed Knicks fan had any interest in Kyrie.
RE: RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
A big toe away from going to the ECF and eventually the Finals 3 years ago. They would have beaten the Bucks if Kyrie doesn’t get injured.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
RE: RE: RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
How does the East look now in terms of favorites after this deal?
don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
.
As a Celts fan, I tried to warn Nets fans about this narcissistic player they were getting...I really did, LOL.
If you can remove this guy from your premises, hell you did a good job IMV. This is regardless of how talented he can be.
You think the Celts aren't glad he's gone??
RE: How does the East look now in terms of favorites after this deal?
Ben Collins
@oneunderscore__
Huge trade for the Mavs. Luka is only 23. He’s going to learn so much from Kyrie on and off the court, like how to attack a hedged pick and roll and that the United States government killed Amy Winehouse.
preferred fvv to dinwiddie for nets, but they get a 1st out of this to make a follow-up move and dfs is a good add for them.
this deadline can go a lot of different directions for them but i hope they hang on to kd and give it 1 more run with vaughn. they now have a lot of defense and shooting around him. if they dont win trade him at draft.
unless phoenix is willing to really go all in on an offer with all of their future picks plus bridges/cam and everything else not nailed down. but that offer is probably still there in june.
and the nyk dont have most of what the nets were looking for. if there's a kd deal ahead of the deadline it's probably phoenix around bridges or boston around brown.
the nets have a lot more leverage now than over the summer though bc kd is playing at an mvp level and probably close to coming back healthy for the stretch run. so whatever anyone thought about him last summer he'd definitely make either of those teams the favorite going forward almost regardless of how much they give up since it wont include booker or tatum.
and the nyk dont have most of what the nets were looking for. if there's a kd deal ahead of the deadline it's probably phoenix around bridges or boston around brown.
the nets have a lot more leverage now than over the summer though bc kd is playing at an mvp level and probably close to coming back healthy for the stretch run. so whatever anyone thought about him last summer he'd definitely make either of those teams the favorite going forward almost regardless of how much they give up since it wont include booker or tatum.
Those are good points. Going to have to hope for OG and then some other star to surprisingly pry loose I guess.
He’s been a cancer everywhere he’s been. But i know there is always someone who thinks they can make it work.
he did the nets 2 tremendous favors.
1. he got them kd.
2. he demanded this trade at the 1 time he had value bc his deal has no bad money on it, he's healthy, and playing his best ball.
i think the entire organization (kd included) is probably thrilled he's gone. 3 months ago i was fine with them simply waiving him for nothing and today they added a 3/d wing they really needed, a first, and brought back dinwiddie.
what kd decides to do is anyone's guess but they have some ammo to continue upgrading the roster in the next few days and im sure both sides would be willing to revisit a trade at the draft if they dont play like a legitimate contender.
Has to be the worst teammate in all of sports history
Guy play only when he wants, pouts like a baby when things aren't 100%, demands trades, etc. You cannot count on him for anything...ever.
Just a complete nut job. How do you not want to play with Lebron?
he's definitely got to be in the running for worst teammate ever. he is a chaos agent. as much as people bagged on him after boston in brooklyn he was worse than the worst case scenario.
Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets i dont think can trade a 1st until 2028 or 29
Strahan/Mook...post was tongue in cheek. Yeah...not a bad deal for the Mavs. But I totally expect him to eventually go off the deep end there. He does everywhere. He is loco.
SFGF I thought it was funny, maybe the references to old for some.
As to Irving, NBA, hell, is there a more dislikable turd in all of sport?
Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets i dont think can trade a 1st until 2028 or 29
believe firsts they can trade are:
2027 philly
2028 or 2029 own
2029 dallas
RE: RE: RE: RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
Ok fine. It wasn’t worth the risk then? The harden move was the bad one, in retrospect. Kyrie cost the nets nothing. Or maybe he cost some but I don’t even care about the nets. All I know is they got Durant and kyrie — it was a worthy risk. No guts no glory.
I care about the Knicks. Mavs just got one of the best guards in the nba for very little. We’ll see how kyrie does there but I don’t think he destroys anything.
No title means it was a massive failure? I disagree there too.
Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets i dont think can trade a 1st until 2028 or 29
believe firsts they can trade are:
2027 philly
2028 or 2029 own
2029 dallas
I dont know these picks have so many protections and right to choose and swaps, hard to tell which ones can be traded
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
Ok fine. It wasn’t worth the risk then? The harden move was the bad one, in retrospect. Kyrie cost the nets nothing. Or maybe he cost some but I don’t even care about the nets. All I know is they got Durant and kyrie — it was a worthy risk. No guts no glory.
I care about the Knicks. Mavs just got one of the best guards in the nba for very little. We’ll see how kyrie does there but I don’t think he destroys anything.
No title means it was a massive failure? I disagree there too.
First of all I didn’t say it wasn’t worth the risk. Secondly, YES not winning a title with KD and Kyrie is an absolute failure. The Nets brass would probably agree with that. I have no idea how you think otherwise. I get it. You want to add a star at all costs. But when you add multiple top 5 to 10 players in the NBA the goal is to win championships. Not only did that not happen, it was mostly a drama filled shit show off the court. It literally couldn’t have gone worse. That’s not a failure in your eyes? Lol. Come on now.
no title is a failure but it's failure with an asterisk
in kd year 1 with kyrie and harden on 1 leg they were on their way to going up 3-0 on the eventual champion. they lost kyrie/harden and kd was still 1 shoe size from beating them in game 7.
it is what it is and they didn't win, but the biggest reasons why were either out of anyone's control (injuries) or kyrie, but he's why they even had a shot in the first place bc he helped get kd.
and in terms of it being a massive failure or setback, that's also doubtful. whatever they get for KD will probably be more than they gave up for Harden (if that's how things go). they already got 3 firsts back for kyrie and harden (plus simmons, curry, drummond, dinwiddie, finney smith). they took a shot, it might not work out, and if it doesn't they move on probably better off than they started.
and there's still a chance it works out. the orgs biggest mistake was nash and under vaughn they've turned a corner defensively which should only improve further without kyrie.
Nets added kyrie and lived to tell about it. I know he’s a weirdo who burns bridges. Nets STILL had a shot thx to these moves and once kyrie got weird (he wants money happens all the time) they traded him for assets. My point is they are more or less fine. And now Dallas will probably be much better.
Knicks might have been wise not to go after him, who knows, but keep waiting for the perfect player see how that works out.
Dallas doesn’t give a fuck. Watch them win more games than the Knicks, WITH Kyrie.
You telling me if the Knicks traded grimes, an open ended first and some seconds we aren’t a scary dangerous team with kyrie and brunson in the backcourt? Cmon already. It’s not even allowed to be discussed??? Why?? Fuck the Celtics I don’t care if he didn’t work up there.
Whatever I’ll wait for moby dick. Maybe one day….
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
Ok fine. It wasn’t worth the risk then? The harden move was the bad one, in retrospect. Kyrie cost the nets nothing. Or maybe he cost some but I don’t even care about the nets. All I know is they got Durant and kyrie — it was a worthy risk. No guts no glory.
I care about the Knicks. Mavs just got one of the best guards in the nba for very little. We’ll see how kyrie does there but I don’t think he destroys anything.
No title means it was a massive failure? I disagree there too.
Not just no title. A grand total of 1 playoff series won. With all they gave up to put the team together it’s unquestionably a massive failure.
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: if theres one guy who can piss off luka and tear that lockerroom
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
You are such a damn drama queen. No wonder you’d like to have Kyrie. Two peas in a pod. Nobody is ripping your head off for wanting Kyrie. But if you are screaming to be able to discuss it, shouldn’t others also be able to discuss why they think it would be a bad idea? Apparently not, otherwise you just cry about somehow getting your head ripped off or something. Also, the Nets were NEVER fucking trading Kyrie to the Knicks. NEVER. But why let that get in the way of another djm rant, lol
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Totally agreed. Also I think its one of the main reasons they didn’t get Don Mitchell. They could have easily topped the Cavs deal without breaking the bank. Now RJs value keeps plummeting ...should have dealt him for DM.
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
They keep treating every ok player or young guy as untouchable until they have no value left.
Brunson is the only untouchable guy on the roster
Totally agreed. Also I think its one of the main reasons they didn’t get Don Mitchell. They could have easily topped the Cavs deal without breaking the bank. Now RJs value keeps plummeting ...should have dealt him for DM.
You may as well say they should have traded RJ for Giannis. Ainge didn’t want him.
Totally agreed. Also I think its one of the main reasons they didn’t get Don Mitchell. They could have easily topped the Cavs deal without breaking the bank. Now RJs value keeps plummeting ...should have dealt him for DM.
You may as well say they should have traded RJ for Giannis. Ainge didn’t want him.
He wanted him but he also wanted a few picks. Apparently we didnt want to give them up.
That is so desperate. Didn’t we all just watch this play out with the Nets? Unloading a shit ton of assets for an increasingly injury prone Durant on the wrong side of 30 is awful business.
Keep building and the right star will eventually come. It isn’t Durant.
He wanted him but he also wanted a few picks. Apparently we didnt want to give them up.
Numerous sources said he specifically did not want RJ. He wanted to rebuild and did not want to get tied down to the long-term contract he would have to be signed to.
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
They keep treating every ok player or young guy as untouchable until they have no value left.
Brunson is the only untouchable guy on the roster
What are you talking about? When have the Knicks ever deemed any young player as untouchable in the last 20 years?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Knicks fans want to win 55 games
He wanted him but he also wanted a few picks. Apparently we didnt want to give them up.
Numerous sources said he specifically did not want RJ. He wanted to rebuild and did not want to get tied down to the long-term contract he would have to be signed to.
That’s bs. RJ was part of all of the discussions that came close to getting done. It was a question of the mix of picks and other players. This has been reported ad nauseam after RJ was extended and the Cle deal got done.
That’s bs. RJ was part of all of the discussions that came close to getting done. It was a question of the mix of picks and other players. This has been reported ad nauseam after RJ was extended and the Cle deal got done.
Suns offer Chris Paul, Jae crowder snd draft picks
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
the laker offer is kind of a non-starter for nets without a 3rd team taking russ, which is at least 1 of those picks out the door right away. otherwise they are stuck with russ and it costs them some crazy amount of extra $ on the lux tax.
the suns offer is close depending on the picks involved. dinwiddie obviously has the longer shelf life. i think dfs is the better player by a good margin over crowder so i think id still take the mavs deal.
so for me phoenix would have had to do 2 frps or cam johnson instead of crowder. id have probably done cam johnson + paul without any picks.
That’s bs. RJ was part of all of the discussions that came close to getting done. It was a question of the mix of picks and other players. This has been reported ad nauseam after RJ was extended and the Cle deal got done.
Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Knicks fans want to win 55 games
Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
Suns offer Chris Paul, Jae crowder snd draft picks
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
the laker offer is kind of a non-starter for nets without a 3rd team taking russ, which is at least 1 of those picks out the door right away. otherwise they are stuck with russ and it costs them some crazy amount of extra $ on the lux tax.
the suns offer is close depending on the picks involved. dinwiddie obviously has the longer shelf life. i think dfs is the better player by a good margin over crowder so i think id still take the mavs deal.
so for me phoenix would have had to do 2 frps or cam johnson instead of crowder. id have probably done cam johnson + paul without any picks.
Phoenix offer was apparently just 1 frp per Shams.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Knicks fans want to win 55 games
Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
Not here to debate what would have “gotten it done” as it’s been discussed plenty already. Merely responding to your post that Utah didn’t want Barrett which was unquestionably untrue. Even if you don’t want to believe the reporting, it’s common sense given the timing of his extension and Cavs deal that followed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Knicks fans want to win 55 games
Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
Not here to debate what would have “gotten it done” as it’s been discussed plenty already. Merely responding to your post that Utah didn’t want Barrett which was unquestionably untrue. Even if you don’t want to believe the reporting, it’s common sense given the timing of his extension and Cavs deal that followed.
They wanted him and before this season his value was likely higher than either Sexton or Markennen. Pretty sure they preffered our two of Rj and Grimes or Quick which is why they got more picks attached to the Cavs deal.
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
They keep treating every ok player or young guy as untouchable until they have no value left.
Brunson is the only untouchable guy on the roster
What are you talking about? When have the Knicks ever deemed any young player as untouchable in the last 20 years?
the only time they traded players with high spot value (before they showed their clear warts) was when they got melo. and that is the last time the team was relevant. trading barrett now is a "well he is not who we thought he could be so now lets trade him"- which means value drops.... currently "we cant trade grimes"--- "i wouldnt trade IQ"-- by the time anyone will want to trade them for a star they will obviously start playing poorly. if a team wants a return they have to trade players when they are actually playing well or lots of picks. and as djm said you have to take a risk.
they have some picks, and a few young players. they will not deem cam thomas as untouchable-- which if you want a good player you need to trade someone like that
the only time they traded players with high spot value (before they showed their clear warts) was when they got melo. and that is the last time the team was relevant. trading barrett now is a "well he is not who we thought he could be so now lets trade him"- which means value drops.... currently "we cant trade grimes"--- "i wouldnt trade IQ"-- by the time anyone will want to trade them for a star they will obviously start playing poorly. if a team wants a return they have to trade players when they are actually playing well or lots of picks. and as djm said you have to take a risk.
You're conflating fan sentiment and what the team actually believes. The Knicks haven't had high value young players until recently. All of the guys you mentioned were made available in Mitchell talks in various combinations so none of them were or are untouchable. Quickley is actually a bad example given the fact that his value has never been higher.
Even with a limited market, they couldn’t do better than that?
.
His contract is up, free agent at season's end.
I get that, but it was reported that 5 teams were interested. I’d rather have the Lakers’ unprotected first rather than the Mavs’. Unless Luka jumps ship…
Reportedly Tsai nixed the Lakers because that's where Kyrie wanted
westbrook's salary being +10m would have cost the nets a a multiple of that amount in extra luxury tax and moving his contract anywhere else would have cost them at least 1 of the picks they gained.
the phoenix trade was only slightly better. crowder is a 32 year old expiring role player who hasn't played this year. paul is a soon to be 38 year old with 90m left (not all gtd).
dinwiddie and dfs are both 29 and signed reasonably for more this year, could possibly both start, and they got an unprotected future pick plus a bunch of seconds and a 5m trade exception. for an expiring kyrie that's a good return considering where his value was a couple months ago when some thought he might literally be done.
with 3 future firsts to deal it will be interesting to see who they go after in the next few days.
Reading Shams’ write-up in the Athletic, I don’t think LAL’s offer was strong enough. Apparently, LA wasn’t willing to add any of their young players to the Russ and 2 1st’s package. I do wonder if taking Russ would have hastened KD’s exit.
people all make a big deal on the lakers trade because its the lakers---
the nets want to keep KD and compete. they also need assets. Mavs trade got both and they can look at another trade.
chris paul? gross.
clippers trade? mehhhhhh
current squad as constructed if healthy can win and they may not be done delaing
im not sure i buy that mann was on the table but if he was that would have been interesting not so much for nets but for 3 team possibilities. mann and picks may have gotten then FVV instead of dinwiddie (i think fvv is better by a worthwhile margin).
i dont think they are done dealing and im really intrigued to see if they decide to move simmons to get rid of anyone unreliable. even something like simmons for poetl would be interesting in combination with another trade that consolidates some of the other contracts/picks into another guard who can handle the ball and score.
RE: they nixed the lakers trade because it was a bad trade
westbrook's salary being +10m would have cost the nets a a multiple of that amount in extra luxury tax and moving his contract anywhere else would have cost them at least 1 of the picks they gained.
the phoenix trade was only slightly better. crowder is a 32 year old expiring role player who hasn't played this year. paul is a soon to be 38 year old with 90m left (not all gtd).
dinwiddie and dfs are both 29 and signed reasonably for more this year, could possibly both start, and they got an unprotected future pick plus a bunch of seconds and a 5m trade exception. for an expiring kyrie that's a good return considering where his value was a couple months ago when some thought he might literally be done.
with 3 future firsts to deal it will be interesting to see who they go after in the next few days.
I agree that the LA offer wasn’t very strong, but I’m not sure how much cap tax implications played into it. With half a season of Russ, the additional salary is “only” $5M. I think bringing Russ in would have pissed off KD.
RE: RE: they nixed the lakers trade because it was a bad trade
westbrook's salary being +10m would have cost the nets a a multiple of that amount in extra luxury tax and moving his contract anywhere else would have cost them at least 1 of the picks they gained.
the phoenix trade was only slightly better. crowder is a 32 year old expiring role player who hasn't played this year. paul is a soon to be 38 year old with 90m left (not all gtd).
dinwiddie and dfs are both 29 and signed reasonably for more this year, could possibly both start, and they got an unprotected future pick plus a bunch of seconds and a 5m trade exception. for an expiring kyrie that's a good return considering where his value was a couple months ago when some thought he might literally be done.
with 3 future firsts to deal it will be interesting to see who they go after in the next few days.
I agree that the LA offer wasn’t very strong, but I’m not sure how much cap tax implications played into it. With half a season of Russ, the additional salary is “only” $5M. I think bringing Russ in would have pissed off KD.
it would have been both. the salary+tax is a multiple of that, and moving the contract without picks attached has proven to be impossible which limits the follow up moves.
i think the version of that deal the nets asked for with christie and reaves was still probably worse than the deal they took.
the two Lakers picks (if they were really offered) have more value around the league than what they just got from Dallas - but what they got from Dallas obviously helps a lot more this year. What we'll never know is what they could have turned the two Lakers picks into before the deadline or this summer. Regardless, the Nets did well here to get two good players back.
Even if Kyrie had not requested the trade, what are the chances he would made it through the rest of the season and playoffs healthy? Or had some other "issue" cause him to miss time? Or maybe his antics would have caused the team to implode or cause KD to request another trade like, if you believe the reporting, happened with Harden - which resulted in Simmons who's a negative asset at this point.
I think this is a massive risk for the Mavs. I have no idea how anyone could trust Kyrie at this point but.
- who is guarding the wings/ guards in the west playoffs for them? I just don't know how they are going to guard anyone. I understand the big offensive improvement, but Finney Smith to Kyrie is an enormous downgrade defensively.
- This severely limits them in what they can offer in any future trades. Can they even offer any future 1sts now?
I would not have made this trade if I'm Dallas and I actually think the Nets did well given the circumstances.
I think this is a massive risk for the Mavs. I have no idea how anyone could trust Kyrie at this point but.
- who is guarding the wings/ guards in the west playoffs for them? I just don't know how they are going to guard anyone. I understand the big offensive improvement, but Finney Smith to Kyrie is an enormous downgrade defensively.
- This severely limits them in what they can offer in any future trades. Can they even offer any future 1sts now?
I would not have made this trade if I'm Dallas and I actually think the Nets did well given the circumstances.
if Dallas makes a deal with the Knicks to remove the protections on the pick they owe so that it's an unprotected 2023 pick, I believe they are then freed up to trade their 2025 and 2027 picks.
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Knicks wait for the perfect player or think adding some complementary part is the answer. Remember when everybody wanted Batum? Now its OG, who will raise the Knicks from a 42 to a 45 win team.
And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Knicks wait for the perfect player or think adding some complementary part is the answer. Remember when everybody wanted Batum? Now its OG, who will raise the Knicks from a 42 to a 45 win team.
Mitchell was the guy to get. That was basically our guy. Cleveland had to add more picks bc at the time their player package was thought to be weaker than ours. That was a big miss by Rose. Now we have to hope somehow some other superstar pries free AND that we will somehow not screw that one up either. Some think Ainge wouldn't have dealt with us. I highly doubt that. If our offer was thought to be better he would not purposely take what he thought to be a lesser deal just to screw us over. No good GM or negotiator does that.
Lastly, while what he was asking for was a decent amount, it was not some way over the top ask for the going rate of a guy of DM's talent level.
Didn't give up much though
Luca. Biggest cry baby in basketball
I wouldn't give that loon a 4 month max.
It's little to no risk. They're not giving up anything with much value
That's about how long it should take them to realize what a huge mistake this was.
I mean there was the whole anti semitic angle, which I nearly forgot about until this very moment, so I guess it was never realistic here. Dallas doesn’t care.
Oh well, there goes a legit super star that can close games and win playoff games. On to the next pipe dream.
If they pay kyrie you wanna bet?
Ps kyrie didn’t destroy shit in Brooklyn. Franchise is still there and actually turned kyrie into assets.
So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
Correct. That’s the move I’m waiting for
I mean there was the whole anti semitic angle, which I nearly forgot about until this very moment, so I guess it was never realistic here. Dallas doesn’t care.
Oh well, there goes a legit super star that can close games and win playoff games. On to the next pipe dream.
Harden forced his way out because of Kyrie, saddling the Nets with Ben Simmons. Durant will probably do the same this summer.
Not a single informed Knicks fan had any interest in Kyrie.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
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Nyk
Correct. That’s the move I’m waiting for
Rose Fournier Obi. Barrett To make the money work and whatever first rounders needed
Will never happen. He doesn’t want to play for the Knicks and there’s no chance the Nets would deal him cross town even if he did.
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So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
A big toe away from going to the ECF and eventually the Finals 3 years ago. They would have beaten the Bucks if Kyrie doesn’t get injured.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
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So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
As a Celts fan, I tried to warn Nets fans about this narcissistic player they were getting...I really did, LOL.
If you can remove this guy from your premises, hell you did a good job IMV. This is regardless of how talented he can be.
You think the Celts aren't glad he's gone??
Nets will fall off more than likely..
Sixers, Bucks, Celtics are the favorites
His contract is up, free agent at season's end.
@oneunderscore__
Huge trade for the Mavs. Luka is only 23. He’s going to learn so much from Kyrie on and off the court, like how to attack a hedged pick and roll and that the United States government killed Amy Winehouse.
Wasn't Phoenix where KD wanted to ne traded to this past summer?
this deadline can go a lot of different directions for them but i hope they hang on to kd and give it 1 more run with vaughn. they now have a lot of defense and shooting around him. if they dont win trade him at draft.
unless phoenix is willing to really go all in on an offer with all of their future picks plus bridges/cam and everything else not nailed down. but that offer is probably still there in june.
Will Nets even deal with us? Somehow I don't see it.
the nets have a lot more leverage now than over the summer though bc kd is playing at an mvp level and probably close to coming back healthy for the stretch run. so whatever anyone thought about him last summer he'd definitely make either of those teams the favorite going forward almost regardless of how much they give up since it wont include booker or tatum.
the nets have a lot more leverage now than over the summer though bc kd is playing at an mvp level and probably close to coming back healthy for the stretch run. so whatever anyone thought about him last summer he'd definitely make either of those teams the favorite going forward almost regardless of how much they give up since it wont include booker or tatum.
Those are good points. Going to have to hope for OG and then some other star to surprisingly pry loose I guess.
he did the nets 2 tremendous favors.
1. he got them kd.
2. he demanded this trade at the 1 time he had value bc his deal has no bad money on it, he's healthy, and playing his best ball.
i think the entire organization (kd included) is probably thrilled he's gone. 3 months ago i was fine with them simply waiving him for nothing and today they added a 3/d wing they really needed, a first, and brought back dinwiddie.
what kd decides to do is anyone's guess but they have some ammo to continue upgrading the roster in the next few days and im sure both sides would be willing to revisit a trade at the draft if they dont play like a legitimate contender.
Just a complete nut job. How do you not want to play with Lebron?
Just a complete nut job. How do you not want to play with Lebron?
he's definitely got to be in the running for worst teammate ever. he is a chaos agent. as much as people bagged on him after boston in brooklyn he was worse than the worst case scenario.
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
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Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets i dont think can trade a 1st until 2028 or 29
As to Irving, NBA, hell, is there a more dislikable turd in all of sport?
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In comment 16025243 hitdog42 said:
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Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets i dont think can trade a 1st until 2028 or 29
believe firsts they can trade are:
2027 philly
2028 or 2029 own
2029 dallas
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In comment 16025177 djm said:
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So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
Ok fine. It wasn’t worth the risk then? The harden move was the bad one, in retrospect. Kyrie cost the nets nothing. Or maybe he cost some but I don’t even care about the nets. All I know is they got Durant and kyrie — it was a worthy risk. No guts no glory.
I care about the Knicks. Mavs just got one of the best guards in the nba for very little. We’ll see how kyrie does there but I don’t think he destroys anything.
No title means it was a massive failure? I disagree there too.
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In comment 16025247 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16025243 hitdog42 said:
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Nets can still compete in the east
And will have one the the top defenses- plus shooters
and some assets to keep adding if they choose. i think they have 1 of their own picks to trade, the dallas pick, cam off his 44 point game winning outburst.
will be interesting to see if they keep simmons or deal him.
Nets i dont think can trade a 1st until 2028 or 29
believe firsts they can trade are:
2027 philly
2028 or 2029 own
2029 dallas
I dont know these picks have so many protections and right to choose and swaps, hard to tell which ones can be traded
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In comment 16025185 bceagle05 said:
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In comment 16025177 djm said:
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So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
Ok fine. It wasn’t worth the risk then? The harden move was the bad one, in retrospect. Kyrie cost the nets nothing. Or maybe he cost some but I don’t even care about the nets. All I know is they got Durant and kyrie — it was a worthy risk. No guts no glory.
I care about the Knicks. Mavs just got one of the best guards in the nba for very little. We’ll see how kyrie does there but I don’t think he destroys anything.
No title means it was a massive failure? I disagree there too.
First of all I didn’t say it wasn’t worth the risk. Secondly, YES not winning a title with KD and Kyrie is an absolute failure. The Nets brass would probably agree with that. I have no idea how you think otherwise. I get it. You want to add a star at all costs. But when you add multiple top 5 to 10 players in the NBA the goal is to win championships. Not only did that not happen, it was mostly a drama filled shit show off the court. It literally couldn’t have gone worse. That’s not a failure in your eyes? Lol. Come on now.
it is what it is and they didn't win, but the biggest reasons why were either out of anyone's control (injuries) or kyrie, but he's why they even had a shot in the first place bc he helped get kd.
and in terms of it being a massive failure or setback, that's also doubtful. whatever they get for KD will probably be more than they gave up for Harden (if that's how things go). they already got 3 firsts back for kyrie and harden (plus simmons, curry, drummond, dinwiddie, finney smith). they took a shot, it might not work out, and if it doesn't they move on probably better off than they started.
and there's still a chance it works out. the orgs biggest mistake was nash and under vaughn they've turned a corner defensively which should only improve further without kyrie.
Knicks might have been wise not to go after him, who knows, but keep waiting for the perfect player see how that works out.
Dallas doesn’t give a fuck. Watch them win more games than the Knicks, WITH Kyrie.
You telling me if the Knicks traded grimes, an open ended first and some seconds we aren’t a scary dangerous team with kyrie and brunson in the backcourt? Cmon already. It’s not even allowed to be discussed??? Why?? Fuck the Celtics I don’t care if he didn’t work up there.
Whatever I’ll wait for moby dick. Maybe one day….
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In comment 16025185 bceagle05 said:
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In comment 16025177 djm said:
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So much for kyrie ruining the nets. They didn’t win a title so I guess there’s that.
If KD follows him out the door this summer it’s a massive failure. It’s rare to put that level of talent on the court and not win a title, or even get to the finals.
Compared to what the expectations were when Kyrie and KD went there it can now officially be ruled a massive failure. I don’t see how anyone on the planet can even debate that. They had a chance to be the next dynasty and instead we got this. Massive failure.
Ok fine. It wasn’t worth the risk then? The harden move was the bad one, in retrospect. Kyrie cost the nets nothing. Or maybe he cost some but I don’t even care about the nets. All I know is they got Durant and kyrie — it was a worthy risk. No guts no glory.
I care about the Knicks. Mavs just got one of the best guards in the nba for very little. We’ll see how kyrie does there but I don’t think he destroys anything.
No title means it was a massive failure? I disagree there too.
Not just no title. A grand total of 1 playoff series won. With all they gave up to put the team together it’s unquestionably a massive failure.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Not just no title. A grand total of 1 playoff series won. With all they gave up to put the team together it’s unquestionably a massive failure.
what do you view as 'all they gave up'?
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
You are such a damn drama queen. No wonder you’d like to have Kyrie. Two peas in a pod. Nobody is ripping your head off for wanting Kyrie. But if you are screaming to be able to discuss it, shouldn’t others also be able to discuss why they think it would be a bad idea? Apparently not, otherwise you just cry about somehow getting your head ripped off or something. Also, the Nets were NEVER fucking trading Kyrie to the Knicks. NEVER. But why let that get in the way of another djm rant, lol
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Totally agreed. Also I think its one of the main reasons they didn’t get Don Mitchell. They could have easily topped the Cavs deal without breaking the bank. Now RJs value keeps plummeting ...should have dealt him for DM.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
They keep treating every ok player or young guy as untouchable until they have no value left.
Brunson is the only untouchable guy on the roster
Totally agreed. Also I think its one of the main reasons they didn’t get Don Mitchell. They could have easily topped the Cavs deal without breaking the bank. Now RJs value keeps plummeting ...should have dealt him for DM.
You may as well say they should have traded RJ for Giannis. Ainge didn’t want him.
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Totally agreed. Also I think its one of the main reasons they didn’t get Don Mitchell. They could have easily topped the Cavs deal without breaking the bank. Now RJs value keeps plummeting ...should have dealt him for DM.
You may as well say they should have traded RJ for Giannis. Ainge didn’t want him.
He wanted him but he also wanted a few picks. Apparently we didnt want to give them up.
Keep building and the right star will eventually come. It isn’t Durant.
He wanted him but he also wanted a few picks. Apparently we didnt want to give them up.
Numerous sources said he specifically did not want RJ. He wanted to rebuild and did not want to get tied down to the long-term contract he would have to be signed to.
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And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
They keep treating every ok player or young guy as untouchable until they have no value left.
Brunson is the only untouchable guy on the roster
What are you talking about? When have the Knicks ever deemed any young player as untouchable in the last 20 years?
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He wanted him but he also wanted a few picks. Apparently we didnt want to give them up.
Numerous sources said he specifically did not want RJ. He wanted to rebuild and did not want to get tied down to the long-term contract he would have to be signed to.
That’s bs. RJ was part of all of the discussions that came close to getting done. It was a question of the mix of picks and other players. This has been reported ad nauseam after RJ was extended and the Cle deal got done.
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
That’s bs. RJ was part of all of the discussions that came close to getting done. It was a question of the mix of picks and other players. This has been reported ad nauseam after RJ was extended and the Cle deal got done.
https://hoopswire.com/jazz-not-interested-in-knicks-rj-barrett-as-part-of-donovan-mitchell-trade/
https://clutchpoints.com/jazz-news-utah-true-feelings-on-rj-barrett-in-donovan-mitchell-trade-prior-to-contract-extension-with-knicks
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
the laker offer is kind of a non-starter for nets without a 3rd team taking russ, which is at least 1 of those picks out the door right away. otherwise they are stuck with russ and it costs them some crazy amount of extra $ on the lux tax.
the suns offer is close depending on the picks involved. dinwiddie obviously has the longer shelf life. i think dfs is the better player by a good margin over crowder so i think id still take the mavs deal.
so for me phoenix would have had to do 2 frps or cam johnson instead of crowder. id have probably done cam johnson + paul without any picks.
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
I’m surprised the suns offered Paul. This was for kyrie?
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Suns offer Chris Paul, Jae crowder snd draft picks
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
I’m surprised the suns offered Paul. This was for kyrie?
yes
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That’s bs. RJ was part of all of the discussions that came close to getting done. It was a question of the mix of picks and other players. This has been reported ad nauseam after RJ was extended and the Cle deal got done.
https://hoopswire.com/jazz-not-interested-in-knicks-rj-barrett-as-part-of-donovan-mitchell-trade/
https://clutchpoints.com/jazz-news-utah-true-feelings-on-rj-barrett-in-donovan-mitchell-trade-prior-to-contract-extension-with-knicks
Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
No way that gets it done. Utah got:
3 unprotected #1 picks
2 unprotected #1 pick swaps
2022 #1 pick
Markkanen
Sexton
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Suns offer Chris Paul, Jae crowder snd draft picks
Lakers offer their 2 firsts unprotected, but tsai refused to send Kyrie to the Lakers..
the laker offer is kind of a non-starter for nets without a 3rd team taking russ, which is at least 1 of those picks out the door right away. otherwise they are stuck with russ and it costs them some crazy amount of extra $ on the lux tax.
the suns offer is close depending on the picks involved. dinwiddie obviously has the longer shelf life. i think dfs is the better player by a good margin over crowder so i think id still take the mavs deal.
so for me phoenix would have had to do 2 frps or cam johnson instead of crowder. id have probably done cam johnson + paul without any picks.
Phoenix offer was apparently just 1 frp per Shams.
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Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
No way that gets it done. Utah got:
3 unprotected #1 picks
2 unprotected #1 pick swaps
2022 #1 pick
Markkanen
Sexton
Not here to debate what would have “gotten it done” as it’s been discussed plenty already. Merely responding to your post that Utah didn’t want Barrett which was unquestionably untrue. Even if you don’t want to believe the reporting, it’s common sense given the timing of his extension and Cavs deal that followed.
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In comment 16025455 Strahan91 said:
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Woj:
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
The same thing has been reported by Shams, Begley, Tony Jones and just about everybody else who’s relevant.
No way that gets it done. Utah got:
3 unprotected #1 picks
2 unprotected #1 pick swaps
2022 #1 pick
Markkanen
Sexton
Not here to debate what would have “gotten it done” as it’s been discussed plenty already. Merely responding to your post that Utah didn’t want Barrett which was unquestionably untrue. Even if you don’t want to believe the reporting, it’s common sense given the timing of his extension and Cavs deal that followed.
They wanted him and before this season his value was likely higher than either Sexton or Markennen. Pretty sure they preffered our two of Rj and Grimes or Quick which is why they got more picks attached to the Cavs deal.
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In comment 16025353 djm said:
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And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
They keep treating every ok player or young guy as untouchable until they have no value left.
Brunson is the only untouchable guy on the roster
What are you talking about? When have the Knicks ever deemed any young player as untouchable in the last 20 years?
the only time they traded players with high spot value (before they showed their clear warts) was when they got melo. and that is the last time the team was relevant. trading barrett now is a "well he is not who we thought he could be so now lets trade him"- which means value drops.... currently "we cant trade grimes"--- "i wouldnt trade IQ"-- by the time anyone will want to trade them for a star they will obviously start playing poorly. if a team wants a return they have to trade players when they are actually playing well or lots of picks. and as djm said you have to take a risk.
the only time they traded players with high spot value (before they showed their clear warts) was when they got melo. and that is the last time the team was relevant. trading barrett now is a "well he is not who we thought he could be so now lets trade him"- which means value drops.... currently "we cant trade grimes"--- "i wouldnt trade IQ"-- by the time anyone will want to trade them for a star they will obviously start playing poorly. if a team wants a return they have to trade players when they are actually playing well or lots of picks. and as djm said you have to take a risk.
You're conflating fan sentiment and what the team actually believes. The Knicks haven't had high value young players until recently. All of the guys you mentioned were made available in Mitchell talks in various combinations so none of them were or are untouchable. Quickley is actually a bad example given the fact that his value has never been higher.
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Even with a limited market, they couldn’t do better than that?
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His contract is up, free agent at season's end.
I get that, but it was reported that 5 teams were interested. I’d rather have the Lakers’ unprotected first rather than the Mavs’. Unless Luka jumps ship…
the phoenix trade was only slightly better. crowder is a 32 year old expiring role player who hasn't played this year. paul is a soon to be 38 year old with 90m left (not all gtd).
dinwiddie and dfs are both 29 and signed reasonably for more this year, could possibly both start, and they got an unprotected future pick plus a bunch of seconds and a 5m trade exception. for an expiring kyrie that's a good return considering where his value was a couple months ago when some thought he might literally be done.
with 3 future firsts to deal it will be interesting to see who they go after in the next few days.
the nets want to keep KD and compete. they also need assets. Mavs trade got both and they can look at another trade.
chris paul? gross.
clippers trade? mehhhhhh
current squad as constructed if healthy can win and they may not be done delaing
Reading Shams’ write-up in the Athletic, I don’t think LAL’s offer was strong enough. Apparently, LA wasn’t willing to add any of their young players to the Russ and 2 1st’s package. I do wonder if taking Russ would have hastened KD’s exit.
the nets want to keep KD and compete. they also need assets. Mavs trade got both and they can look at another trade.
chris paul? gross.
clippers trade? mehhhhhh
current squad as constructed if healthy can win and they may not be done delaing
im not sure i buy that mann was on the table but if he was that would have been interesting not so much for nets but for 3 team possibilities. mann and picks may have gotten then FVV instead of dinwiddie (i think fvv is better by a worthwhile margin).
i dont think they are done dealing and im really intrigued to see if they decide to move simmons to get rid of anyone unreliable. even something like simmons for poetl would be interesting in combination with another trade that consolidates some of the other contracts/picks into another guard who can handle the ball and score.
the phoenix trade was only slightly better. crowder is a 32 year old expiring role player who hasn't played this year. paul is a soon to be 38 year old with 90m left (not all gtd).
dinwiddie and dfs are both 29 and signed reasonably for more this year, could possibly both start, and they got an unprotected future pick plus a bunch of seconds and a 5m trade exception. for an expiring kyrie that's a good return considering where his value was a couple months ago when some thought he might literally be done.
with 3 future firsts to deal it will be interesting to see who they go after in the next few days.
I agree that the LA offer wasn’t very strong, but I’m not sure how much cap tax implications played into it. With half a season of Russ, the additional salary is “only” $5M. I think bringing Russ in would have pissed off KD.
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westbrook's salary being +10m would have cost the nets a a multiple of that amount in extra luxury tax and moving his contract anywhere else would have cost them at least 1 of the picks they gained.
the phoenix trade was only slightly better. crowder is a 32 year old expiring role player who hasn't played this year. paul is a soon to be 38 year old with 90m left (not all gtd).
dinwiddie and dfs are both 29 and signed reasonably for more this year, could possibly both start, and they got an unprotected future pick plus a bunch of seconds and a 5m trade exception. for an expiring kyrie that's a good return considering where his value was a couple months ago when some thought he might literally be done.
with 3 future firsts to deal it will be interesting to see who they go after in the next few days.
I agree that the LA offer wasn’t very strong, but I’m not sure how much cap tax implications played into it. With half a season of Russ, the additional salary is “only” $5M. I think bringing Russ in would have pissed off KD.
it would have been both. the salary+tax is a multiple of that, and moving the contract without picks attached has proven to be impossible which limits the follow up moves.
i think the version of that deal the nets asked for with christie and reaves was still probably worse than the deal they took.
Even if Kyrie had not requested the trade, what are the chances he would made it through the rest of the season and playoffs healthy? Or had some other "issue" cause him to miss time? Or maybe his antics would have caused the team to implode or cause KD to request another trade like, if you believe the reporting, happened with Harden - which resulted in Simmons who's a negative asset at this point.
- who is guarding the wings/ guards in the west playoffs for them? I just don't know how they are going to guard anyone. I understand the big offensive improvement, but Finney Smith to Kyrie is an enormous downgrade defensively.
- This severely limits them in what they can offer in any future trades. Can they even offer any future 1sts now?
I would not have made this trade if I'm Dallas and I actually think the Nets did well given the circumstances.
- who is guarding the wings/ guards in the west playoffs for them? I just don't know how they are going to guard anyone. I understand the big offensive improvement, but Finney Smith to Kyrie is an enormous downgrade defensively.
- This severely limits them in what they can offer in any future trades. Can they even offer any future 1sts now?
I would not have made this trade if I'm Dallas and I actually think the Nets did well given the circumstances.
if Dallas makes a deal with the Knicks to remove the protections on the pick they owe so that it's an unprotected 2023 pick, I believe they are then freed up to trade their 2025 and 2027 picks.
Dallas gets a guy who could form a dynamic duo with Luca, who supposedly loves Kyrie.
Nets eliminate a bad situation.
Sometimes stuff does not work out and you have to move on
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Knicks wait for the perfect player or think adding some complementary part is the answer. Remember when everybody wanted Batum? Now its OG, who will raise the Knicks from a 42 to a 45 win team.
He already could have left and chose not to. He is signed for three more years after this one. His leaving is not really an issue
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And make it to late may??? Take a fucking risk. Just one.
Or stay in the back shadows and let the perfect player come along.
Dallas takes risks. Lakers take risks. Sixers. Nets. Heat. Remember when Jimmy butler was a bad guy to go after?? Yea me too. Now he’s a pillar in Miami.
Scared money never wins.
We should be allowed to discuss moves like this without getting my head ripped off. It’s been fifty fucking years. It’s been 23 or so since we were legit good.
Knicks are not open minded to moves like this. I’m convinced of it.
Knicks wait for the perfect player or think adding some complementary part is the answer. Remember when everybody wanted Batum? Now its OG, who will raise the Knicks from a 42 to a 45 win team.
Mitchell was the guy to get. That was basically our guy. Cleveland had to add more picks bc at the time their player package was thought to be weaker than ours. That was a big miss by Rose. Now we have to hope somehow some other superstar pries free AND that we will somehow not screw that one up either. Some think Ainge wouldn't have dealt with us. I highly doubt that. If our offer was thought to be better he would not purposely take what he thought to be a lesser deal just to screw us over. No good GM or negotiator does that.
Lastly, while what he was asking for was a decent amount, it was not some way over the top ask for the going rate of a guy of DM's talent level.