Knicks coming off a brutal OT loss because of Nic fucking Batum
Tonight’s headlines are sure to be the Kyrie Whack job Irving trade
Trade deadline Thursday Feb 9
Trades I would love to make if I’m
Leon Rose. Just spitballing here
Knicks send RJ and Rose plus a first rounder to Toronto for OG and Otto porter
Salary match out
Knicks send Fournier and Hart and Obi and Reddish and draft capital to Chicago for Derozan and Patrick Williams
Salaries match
Williams and OG can play the 3 and 4
Derozan makes the bench a weapon if he agrees to come off bench.
Mitch
Randle
OG
Grimes
Brunson
Bench
Simms
Williams
Derozan
IQ
Hold up a sign so Dolan can prohibit you from attending games
Didn't you promise you were not going to the game today??
It's ok...I'll never gamble again
What's the line now +4??
Knicks have enough fire power to stay with anyone in the league, the question will always remain can they close..
Would be nice to have a bounce back game for Rj tonight
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And you bet your ass I'm going to be screaming to fire Thibs
Didn't you promise you were not going to the game today??
It's ok...I'll never gamble again
What's the line now +4??
Didn’t promise. I said I didn’t want to go. I’ve seen the script before.
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In comment 16025227 Anakim said:
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And you bet your ass I'm going to be screaming to fire Thibs
Didn't you promise you were not going to the game today??
It's ok...I'll never gamble again
What's the line now +4??
Didn’t promise. I said I didn’t want to go. I’ve seen the script before.
Maybe they will surprise us and pull this off...
Need a live steam when you get escorted out lol.
That would be glorious, and was my first thought too.
NBA suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
Knicks have nothing, I guess playing your starters 40 minutes really hurts you for the next game
Nice start Thibs.
Lots of Sixers fans and fans chanting MVP at Embiid
hahahahaha
Same old script.
Come on. You know I'm laughing at this post. Lol.
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its ok to rely on your bench a little tonight, you can sprinkle in Brunson and Randle but let these guys play..
Come on. You know I'm laughing at this post. Lol.
Different circumatances, different game, Starters are clearly tired this game..
I even said for the last game that no matter ehat Thibs did he would be second guessed..
These announcers are fucking brutal as well. Go sell insurance.
Monica’s voice is so refreshing there.
Jefferson needs to shut up too.
I miss Mike and Clyde.
1 thing about this team, they fight
These officials?
Or the booth trio for this game?
Difficult to choose. Both fucking putrid.
I just saw/heard illness. I did not hear them say it's non-covid related, so perhaps he has the 'vid?
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?
I just saw/heard illness. I did not hear them say it's non-covid related, so perhaps he has the 'vid?
Thanks Mike
Gonna go straight from the upcoming soul-crushing loss right into The Last Of Us. Very poetic and fitting transition.
I met him at a charity dinner and the speaker was Jay Wright. That’s the Knicks next coach
so much better
No legs
Thibs has to work out a deeper rotation to keep everyone fresh
Sneaky feeling RJ is being traded
Mcbride came in and played great defense and knocked down some open shots
Hartenstein had a fantastic game, he has been a lot better lately..
Brunson and Randle closed it..
Bench saved this game in the first half
Sneaky feeling RJ is being traded
Would be big depending on who they get.
Thibs has to work out a deeper rotation to keep everyone fresh
Perhaps they won because he is NOT their best or even second best player?
He is just not an off ball player..
Ayton, OG ...Ill take either
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
RJ’s defense has been awful. Rather have OG than RJ
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
What does any of this have to do with Rj not being a fit with the starters?
they're still not using him correctly on offense - but he's certainly been more active and more of a presence.
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Had to be bailed out by the bench right and your savior Grimes was 1-5 from 3 and barely played in the 4th right?
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
What does any of this have to do with Rj not being a fit with the starters?
Because he actually does and it showed tonight
we have other wings who can do at least one thing well. Right now RJ does nothing well. The only person in NY that thinks he deserves big minutes is Thibs.
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In comment 16025420 larryflower37 said:
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Had to be bailed out by the bench right and your savior Grimes was 1-5 from 3 and barely played in the 4th right?
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
What does any of this have to do with Rj not being a fit with the starters?
Because he actually does and it showed tonight
No he doesnt, you notice who finished with Brunson and Randle? Fournier and Mcbride, you know why it worked? because they play iff the ball, they are not ball dominant, so they excelled getting wide open 3s..
Name 1 great team that had 3 ball domiannt players and all 3 continued to be ball domiannt and it was succesful..
lol. are you drunk?
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That's a gritty win with your best player missing.
lol. are you drunk?
Haha
You triggered bro ?
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In comment 16025427 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16025420 larryflower37 said:
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Had to be bailed out by the bench right and your savior Grimes was 1-5 from 3 and barely played in the 4th right?
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
What does any of this have to do with Rj not being a fit with the starters?
Because he actually does and it showed tonight
No he doesnt, you notice who finished with Brunson and Randle? Fournier and Mcbride, you know why it worked? because they play iff the ball, they are not ball dominant, so they excelled getting wide open 3s..
Name 1 great team that had 3 ball domiannt players and all 3 continued to be ball domiannt and it was succesful..
GS warriors? 76ers ? Celtics?
Also the starting line up you have been screaming for didn't finish the game. They wouldn't have if the other 2 could do anything tonight.
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In comment 16025406 larryflower37 said:
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That's a gritty win with your best player missing.
lol. are you drunk?
Haha
You triggered bro ?
wouldn't be your first lousy RJ take...
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In comment 16025429 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16025427 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16025420 larryflower37 said:
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Had to be bailed out by the bench right and your savior Grimes was 1-5 from 3 and barely played in the 4th right?
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
What does any of this have to do with Rj not being a fit with the starters?
Because he actually does and it showed tonight
No he doesnt, you notice who finished with Brunson and Randle? Fournier and Mcbride, you know why it worked? because they play iff the ball, they are not ball dominant, so they excelled getting wide open 3s..
Name 1 great team that had 3 ball domiannt players and all 3 continued to be ball domiannt and it was succesful..
GS warriors? 76ers ? Celtics?
Also the starting line up you have been screaming for didn't finish the game. They wouldn't have if the other 2 could do anything tonight.
Warriors have 3 ball dominant players in thejr stsrting lineuo? who?
Sixers dont, they moved Maxey to the bench because it wasnt working..
Celtics have 2 not 3..
Nice try though
Warriors never had 3 ball dominant players, Klay is an off the ball player, he is a sbooter, running off screens..
Curry has become more ball domiannt but he runs a lot of DHO's with Green..
Why do you think it doesnt work for the Lakers?
Warriors never had 3 ball dominant players, Klay is an off the ball player, he is a sbooter, running off screens..
Curry has become more ball domiannt but he runs a lot of DHO's with Green..
Why do you think it doesnt work for the Lakers?
Totally agree. You can have two--Jordan/Pippen, Steph/Durant--but hard to have three.Unless one of the three is a Chris Paul type PG
That's why RJ should be on the floor whenever Brunson or Randle sit.
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not enough touches, never has never will..
Warriors never had 3 ball dominant players, Klay is an off the ball player, he is a sbooter, running off screens..
Curry has become more ball domiannt but he runs a lot of DHO's with Green..
Why do you think it doesnt work for the Lakers?
Totally agree. You can have two--Jordan/Pippen, Steph/Durant--but hard to have three.Unless one of the three is a Chris Paul type PG
That's why RJ should be on the floor whenever Brunson or Randle sit.
Or a true superstar that Randle would finally have to start defering touches to especially in the 4th Q. RJ ain't that guy.
That was SWEEEEEET. Some of them were bullshit like the ones Harden’s been living on for a decade.
From the middle of the third quarter on, the Knicks 4 guards were excellent. They were able to steal time with Brunson on the bench, then he came in and kept it going. Great games by Fournier and Deuce.
Meanwhile, the Sixers bench combo of Niang and Reed were horrendous. Their entire bench was and the game was lost while Embiid was sitting.
I’ve been rough on Hartenstein, but he was terrific off the bench.
Great win.
MCbride is just a great defender and Fournier, while not great defensively--is hardnosed--something knicks have been missing.
Great game
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In comment 16025432 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16025429 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16025427 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16025420 larryflower37 said:
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Had to be bailed out by the bench right and your savior Grimes was 1-5 from 3 and barely played in the 4th right?
Quickley did not look good with the starters(which I want)
RJ has warts and all but man you can spin anything to be has fault.
The hate is real.
What does any of this have to do with Rj not being a fit with the starters?
Because he actually does and it showed tonight
No he doesnt, you notice who finished with Brunson and Randle? Fournier and Mcbride, you know why it worked? because they play iff the ball, they are not ball dominant, so they excelled getting wide open 3s..
Name 1 great team that had 3 ball domiannt players and all 3 continued to be ball domiannt and it was succesful..
GS warriors? 76ers ? Celtics?
Also the starting line up you have been screaming for didn't finish the game. They wouldn't have if the other 2 could do anything tonight.
Warriors have 3 ball dominant players in thejr stsrting lineuo? who?
Sixers dont, they moved Maxey to the bench because it wasnt working..
Celtics have 2 not 3..
Nice try though
Harris on the 76ers not Maxey btw.
Warriors Klay, Wiggins and Curry.
I will give you Smart but he is not a straight up perimeter shooter
McBride is just a great defender and Fournier, while not great defensively--is hardnosed--something knicks have been missing.
Great game.
Thibs has a disgustingly bad feel for flow of the game, his players strengths and weaknesses and rotations. He generally doesn't believe in riding the hot hand and plays favorites. Today we were fortunate but until he shows a willingness to adapt, I'm still quite skeptical.
Klay is not ball dominant, Curry has become a little bit more as his career has gone on but a lot of his scoring is off of Draymond..
Lebron, Wade and bosh were the same.
So in the right system it can work and players being less selfish.
Brunson didn't need to be ball dominant in Dallas and played off Luka more often than not.
In the end you don't want RJ on this team and haven't for 3 years it didn't start when Brunson got here
You are fitting the 3 ball dominant theory to make an excuse to move on from RJ.
So if you move RJ for Dame or Mitchell you would be worried about 3 ball dominant players?
Lebron, Wade and bosh were the same.
So in the right system it can work and players being less selfish.
Brunson didn't need to be ball dominant in Dallas and played off Luka more often than not.
In the end you don't want RJ on this team and haven't for 3 years it didn't start when Brunson got here
You are fitting the 3 ball dominant theory to make an excuse to move on from RJ.
So if you move RJ for Dame or Mitchell you would be worried about 3 ball dominant players?
Well depending on Thibs idiotic rotations and favoring Randle maybe...but I think Randle would be forced to defer more to a true superstar player. RJ aint that guy. Brunson is a point who is not a me first player and can adjust.
Lebron, Wade and bosh were the same.
So in the right system it can work and players being less selfish.
Brunson didn't need to be ball dominant in Dallas and played off Luka more often than not.
In the end you don't want RJ on this team and haven't for 3 years it didn't start when Brunson got here
You are fitting the 3 ball dominant theory to make an excuse to move on from RJ.
So if you move RJ for Dame or Mitchell you would be worried about 3 ball dominant players?
Holy crap, Bosh went from a 25 PPG scorer to a 16-18 ppg scorer and became more pick and pop and had to play off the ball..Even Wade took a step back..
No shit when 3 great players come together 1 guy has to take step back, the point is Rj cant, he doesnt have a consistent shooting touch..He has to be ball dominant to be effective..
If you put 3 stars together and a guy isnt capable of playing off the ball, it is not going to work, like with the Lakers, Westbrook cant play off the ball, so now he has to come off the bench..
If they trade for a star, Randle has to continue to move more off the ball and hopefully the guy they get can shoot so he can play off the ball as well..
It is really simple, 3 guys who need the ball to be effective doesnt work, 1 or 2 guys has to be effective off the ball for it to work..I dont get how this is so hard to understand, tbis is not just about Rj if it was anyone in that position i would say the same thing, i said it about Fournier and Kemba last year, it was to many guys that needed the ball..
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Doesn't hold water because Harris, Harden, Embid game was always ball dominant but they changed to win.
Lebron, Wade and bosh were the same.
So in the right system it can work and players being less selfish.
Brunson didn't need to be ball dominant in Dallas and played off Luka more often than not.
In the end you don't want RJ on this team and haven't for 3 years it didn't start when Brunson got here
You are fitting the 3 ball dominant theory to make an excuse to move on from RJ.
So if you move RJ for Dame or Mitchell you would be worried about 3 ball dominant players?
Well depending on Thibs idiotic rotations and favoring Randle maybe...but I think Randle would be forced to defer more to a true superstar player. RJ aint that guy. Brunson is a point who is not a me first player and can adjust.
100%
Can RJ, Randle,and Brunson develop that chemistry and Thibs change his thinking I hope so.
Grimes and Quickley have been too inconsistent in hitting the wide open 3 off the doubles.
But deep down you know RJ is going to be there and they need to learn to make it work this season to make a run
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Doesn't hold water because Harris, Harden, Embid game was always ball dominant but they changed to win.
Lebron, Wade and bosh were the same.
So in the right system it can work and players being less selfish.
Brunson didn't need to be ball dominant in Dallas and played off Luka more often than not.
In the end you don't want RJ on this team and haven't for 3 years it didn't start when Brunson got here
You are fitting the 3 ball dominant theory to make an excuse to move on from RJ.
So if you move RJ for Dame or Mitchell you would be worried about 3 ball dominant players?
Holy crap, Bosh went from a 25 PPG scorer to a 16-18 ppg scorer and became more pick and pop and had to play off the ball..Even Wade took a step back..
No shit when 3 great players come together 1 guy has to take step back, the point is Rj cant, he doesnt have a consistent shooting touch..He has to be ball dominant to be effective..
If you put 3 stars together and a guy isnt capable of playing off the ball, it is not going to work, like with the Lakers, Westbrook cant play off the ball, so now he has to come off the bench..
If they trade for a star, Randle has to continue to move more off the ball and hopefully the guy they get can shoot so he can play off the ball as well..
It is really simple, 3 guys who need the ball to be effective doesnt work, 1 or 2 guys has to be effective off the ball for it to work..I dont get how this is so hard to understand, tbis is not just about Rj if it was anyone in that position i would say the same thing, i said it about Fournier and Kemba last year, it was to many guys that needed the ball..
RJ is not a good fit with this squad especially with the idiotic Thibs rotations.
Hart, Fournier and Deuce were great off the bench. Hart and Fournier, enough said - and Deuce was +34 in 23 minutes.
Besides 14 rebounds Hart was diving for balls and giving it back to Embiid physically. Fournier finally did what he was brought here to do.
Embiid is a beast, his "MVP" chants from the Philly fans in attendance (there were quite a few) may be deserved.
Harden is even more dislikable in person than on TV, because TV cuts away to other things and doesn't show him endlessly arguing with the refs about everything. I don't know why the refs tolerate it.
Anyway - great night. Our youngest (who's grown) was in town and wanted to go to the game - glad we did.
He really has been such a great vet..
Brunson and Randle mainly handled the ball. If any of the other three guys got the ball, they got rid of it quickly by passing or shooting.
Deuce played a D-and-3 role and it worked well. He's not a great 3-point shooter but he hit a couple of big ones and played good D.
Grimes was decent, not great. IQ as a starter didn't work and maybe in part because he's another on-ball player. Also - I hope he's OK - he appeared to get injured, early in the 4th quarter I think it was, and he didn't return.
Obi certainly runs a lot, and he wasn't bad, but I wonder sometimes if he knows where he's running to and why.
That was great. The NY v Philly vibe was strong tonight. It was good atmosphere, a little like soccer in Europe. Although MSG is such a bread-and-a-circus atmosphere, with all the crazy things going on during breaks.
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Of players that Leon Rose used to represent, Devin Booker has been reported to be the most likely to end up with the Knicks. Could his past frustrations with the Suns lead to a trade?
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
"I say within the next 12 months a star, slash, superstar player demands a trade to New York. And I don't know who it's going to be. I have some guesses. I'm not going to say right here. I'll let you guys start thinking about that."
- ESPN’s Brian Windhorst
(h/t @RealGM )
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"The name that Windy was talking about is Devin Booker. He’s talking about Devin Booker. When we you look at the ties that exist within the Knicks organization, you have a guy like Leon Rose that is running the team. Devin Booker was one of his top clients."
-ESPN’s Jay Williams
Shams had a report that the suns are being super agressive to try and upgrade the team and made it sound like CP3 was on the way out
Now I'm not getting hopes up for this to happen but I can see the Knicks going this route should he actually become available.
We need outside shooting,and he is great beside randle and brunson
I know his D is lacking,but sheesh he has played well the last few games he has been allowed out of the dog house...
Trade rumor was the were definitely in on Kyrie and could see them going all in on Durant.
We need outside shooting,and he is great beside randle and brunson
I know his D is lacking,but sheesh he has played well the last few games he has been allowed out of the dog house...
No he is fine in spots and he got hot yesterday but overall his shooting hasnt been good..
His defense has been better but do you trust it? In this league you need to be a good defender at the wing position
We need outside shooting,and he is great beside randle and brunson
I know his D is lacking,but sheesh he has played well the last few games he has been allowed out of the dog house...
He can shoot. Possibly the best pure shooter on the team for a team that lacks great shooting. Its too bad Thibs isnt a coach that is good at adjusting system to his players.
A line up with Mitchell Randle Fournier Grimes/Quickly Brunson should actually in theory be a decent one if utilized properly.
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Is it possible he has played his way back into the rotation?
We need outside shooting,and he is great beside randle and brunson
I know his D is lacking,but sheesh he has played well the last few games he has been allowed out of the dog house...
He can shoot. Possibly the best pure shooter on the team for a team that lacks great shooting. Its too bad Thibs isnt a coach that is good at adjusting system to his players.
A line up with Mitchell Randle Fournier Grimes/Quickly Brunson should actually in theory be a decent one if utilized properly.
The problem is a lineup with Brunson and Fournier is tough defensively...You can hide 1 bad defender, you cant hide 2..Fournier will try on defense, he is good team defender but if he has to guard a good to great offensive player, he is going to get cooked..
Thats the thing missing with this team, not enough bigger defensive wings
I agree that Fournier and Brunson cannot play together for too long due to the D....but IQ/Fournier does work
I agree that Fournier and Brunson cannot play together for too long due to the D....but IQ/Fournier does work
Yeah fournier cnanplay well with Iq or Mcbride
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Look at Philly,they have several big wing players,who can shoot.
I agree that Fournier and Brunson cannot play together for too long due to the D....but IQ/Fournier does work
Yeah fournier cnanplay well with Iq or Mcbride
OG in theory would be a strong compliment to this line-up. Chess piece defensive player who can come in anywhere depending on matchups.
This team desperately needs shooting, and we have a good outside shooter on the team, but for some reason we have a 9 man rotation that CANNOT be compromised and guys are even in or out, even if they're having bad nights or we can take advantage of some matchup.
Looking backwards, you do what you have to do to get Brunson, but losing Burks hurt.
This team desperately needs shooting, and we have a good outside shooter on the team, but for some reason we have a 9 man rotation that CANNOT be compromised and guys are even in or out, even if they're having bad nights or we can take advantage of some matchup.
Never adjusts to the game, biggest issue
This team desperately needs shooting, and we have a good outside shooter on the team, but for some reason we have a 9 man rotation that CANNOT be compromised and guys are even in or out, even if they're having bad nights or we can take advantage of some matchup.
Fournier is a perfect example of how the FO both "fully supports Thibs" but clearly the organization is not on the same page. Fournier has been EXACTLY who he's always been prior to coming to the Knicks and yet Thibs fell out of love with Fournier within months of him being here... so why did they sign him? It's not like he signed here and his play/game fell off.
Guys shouldmt be playing 16 straight minutes when they are 1 for 11 or when they are 11 for 11...You cant have a rotation like that, you first off kill the bench and then you exhaust your starters..
and the constant need to have a center on the court is baffiling..
Guys shouldmt be playing 16 straight minutes when they are 1 for 11 or when they are 11 for 11...You cant have a rotation like that, you first off kill the bench and then you exhaust your starters..
and the constant need to have a center on the court is baffiling..
apparently RJ played the first 18 minutes of the game on Saturday night, lol. That's weird even if the guy is playing well. But for someone who's actively hurting the team....it's outright lunacy/malpractice.
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i have no problem sitting guys who aremt performing or the fit is not right but a guy shouldnt just be banished and not seen or heard form again..Every game is different sometimes you need a scoring punch off the bench, sometimes you need defense..
Guys shouldmt be playing 16 straight minutes when they are 1 for 11 or when they are 11 for 11...You cant have a rotation like that, you first off kill the bench and then you exhaust your starters..
and the constant need to have a center on the court is baffiling..
apparently RJ played the first 18 minutes of the game on Saturday night, lol. That's weird even if the guy is playing well. But for someone who's actively hurting the team....it's outright lunacy/malpractice.
Yup, its because thibs doesnt know how to stagger and his first sub is always Hartenstein for Sims and it doesnt come until 7 minutes into the quarter..
Thibs waits forever to make his first sub and then at that point it is hard to stagger..
Rj should play as many minutes as possible with the bench..
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No, we won it. It was a solid win.
Its not that hr is terrible, the big issue is the fit and he is not capable of playing that 3rd fiddle role..
Plus his defense has regressed and yes he scores 20 but his effeciency is awful and he doesnt pass the ball..
I just dont think the fit is helping him
He gets those points on a ton of shots (his efficiency sucks)
He's not a playmaker (barely more assists than turnovers).
His defense sucks (31 combined steals and blocks this season in 1674 minutes!)
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Or did the sixers blow it??
No, we won it. It was a solid win.
I meant to ask you how it was being there
Also did RJ seem engaged in the game or was he pissed off at not playing?
I have my suspicion about his not playing last nite
His FG % is down as is his Defensive efficiency scores
It's fixable...but hasn't been fixed yet
Fournier is not a good 1 on 1 defender but he is a smart defender and good at team defense. Combine that with his shooting/ passing and IQ, he deserves minutes with the starters over RJ right now.
If there is any chance for a RJ for OG ( or even Siakam) deal, I would be going all in on that if I'm the Knicks.
It Also does not help that he has a coach using Van Gundy’s offensive playbook from the 1990s
Fournier is not a good 1 on 1 defender but he is a smart defender and good at team defense. Combine that with his shooting/ passing and IQ, he deserves minutes with the starters over RJ right now.
If there is any chance for a RJ for OG ( or even Siakam) deal, I would be going all in on that if I'm the Knicks.
Man the rosy glasses are on for Fournier today.
All I heard for a year is how bad Fournier is on defense and sit him down, One decent game and we are moving to a 10 man rotation to accommodate him or give him Barrett's minutes.
Fournier was a bad fit from the start and should have moved him when we cleaned out the last group (kemba,etc)
I don't know what game you watched last night but Fournier was in bad body position and swapping at the ball all night in 25 minutes a night you guys would have the torches and pitchforks put.
It Also does not help that he has a coach using Van Gundy’s offensive playbook from the 1990s
It doesnt matter what playbook you use, he wouldnt be a fit, he wouldnt fit in the warriors offense..
he is a 1 level scorer and a volume scorer at that..
We all ahted Randle last year because of his ineffeciemcy and iso, why does Rj get a pass with worse numbers?
Also did RJ seem engaged in the game or was he pissed off at not playing?
I was there as well. I saw Mitch on the bench but not RJ - but that makes sense as he was scratched because of illness (at least that's the official word). If he was contagious you wouldn't want him on the bench.
It Also does not help that he has a coach using Van Gundy’s offensive playbook from the 1990s
The problem is that we’ve been saying the same things about him since he was 19. Then 20. Then 21…
There just hasn’t been any significant improvement at all. That’s the problem. Still young? Sure. But there is no evidence that he is going to change much as a player as he gets older
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In comment 16025765 AG5686 said:
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Or did the sixers blow it??
No, we won it. It was a solid win.
I meant to ask you how it was being there
Also did RJ seem engaged in the game or was he pissed off at not playing?
I have my suspicion about his not playing last nite
It was fun. Racuous crowd, albeit quite a lot of empty seats and LOTS of Sixers fans.
RJ was taking warmups, but then he just went to the back and never returned. I mentioned last night that I heard Obi asking someone "where's RJ?" I thought he might've gotten traded.
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Also did RJ seem engaged in the game or was he pissed off at not playing?
I was there as well. I saw Mitch on the bench but not RJ - but that makes sense as he was scratched because of illness (at least that's the official word). If he was contagious you wouldn't want him on the bench.
If I never hear DJ Sophia Rocks again, I'll be so happy. Not that she was bad or anything, but every fucking break..."NOW, 14-YEAR OLD, SOPHIA ROCKS. LET ME SEE YOUR BEST DANCE MOVES!"
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So while a lot of the things you guys are saying about him, especially lack of fit, are true, he is very young and still has several years to improve.
It Also does not help that he has a coach using Van Gundy’s offensive playbook from the 1990s
It doesnt matter what playbook you use, he wouldnt be a fit, he wouldnt fit in the warriors offense..
he is a 1 level scorer and a volume scorer at that..
We all ahted Randle last year because of his ineffeciemcy and iso, why does Rj get a pass with worse numbers?
He gets a pass because he is 22. He is a better player than either Brunsonor Randle was at the same age.
To me, the big problem on the Knicks is that the Ball movement is sometimes hesitant. Look at the way George whipped that pass to Batum. It was like a hockey one timer. On the Knicks it would have been a ball fake, a step toward the basket and the pass would have arrived late. When the Knicks are crisp they can play with anybody.
The second problem is the lack of a big man who can knock down a three . You need to put five guys on the floor who can hit a three, especially at the end when teams turn up the defensive intensity.
Quote:
In comment 16025801 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
So while a lot of the things you guys are saying about him, especially lack of fit, are true, he is very young and still has several years to improve.
It Also does not help that he has a coach using Van Gundy’s offensive playbook from the 1990s
It doesnt matter what playbook you use, he wouldnt be a fit, he wouldnt fit in the warriors offense..
he is a 1 level scorer and a volume scorer at that..
We all ahted Randle last year because of his ineffeciemcy and iso, why does Rj get a pass with worse numbers?
He gets a pass because he is 22. He is a better player than either Brunsonor Randle was at the same age.
To me, the big problem on the Knicks is that the Ball movement is sometimes hesitant. Look at the way George whipped that pass to Batum. It was like a hockey one timer. On the Knicks it would have been a ball fake, a step toward the basket and the pass would have arrived late. When the Knicks are crisp they can play with anybody.
The second problem is the lack of a big man who can knock down a three . You need to put five guys on the floor who can hit a three, especially at the end when teams turn up the defensive intensity.
By Randles 4th year he was averaging 17 PPG 3 assists and 8 rebounds at 55% shooting and he missed his entire rookie year..
The next year he was averaging 21 ppg..
Randle has been a good player for a long time..
Brunson's 4th year was last year and he was 16 and 5 over 50% shooting..
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
I 100% concur,and I do think he has an injury to his knee (see his sleeve) that is effecting his play...
All we need is a first round exit and we'll be all set.
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
I agree this is a possibility but to call him the best player RIGHT NOW on the team is simply far removed from reality.
Does he have the highest upside? That is certainly an argument that could be made. There is a lot to like about his game, his drive and his character. However it is no guarantee he reaches his ceiling either.
As for right now he is a inefficient volume scorer whose defense has taken a step back. Randle aside from being quite an un-clutch player in crunch time is an absolute excellent #2 if we finally bring in a #1 to lead this team. A guy that he would inevitably have to defer to.
Never fails.
Never fails.
Add Giannis or Jokic to this roster, are we not winning a ring? See....a player away.
I wouldn't put it past RJ.
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
You honestly think RJ could be an all star in the next 4 years? Just look at the year Brunson is having and he didn't make the all star team. Look at some of the players who didnt make it, you really think he's capable of that?
Honest question- what is RJ Barrett really good at? What category compared to other players in the NBA?
You can excuse his play on his age or some mystery knee injury. But he's in his 4th season and honestly doesn't look to be improving or getting any better.
I'm not saying Fournier is better than him by any stretch. IU am saying right now game to game, he can be a better fit with the starters than Barrett. No reason they need to be so ridgid.
Not opposed to it but prefer one of the other names that have been linked ie Osman, Allen, Windler etc
Rose/Reddish/Fournier
for
Osman and Love (buy out Love who has an expiring deal), Windler
Knicks clear Fournier, add decent/solid Osman plus Windler and the wannabe contender but young Cavs add Reddish (who they apparently are interested in), good veteran presence Derrick Rose and some bench scoring in Reddish.
Jazz Notes
@UtahJazzNotes
The Utah Jazz and New York Knicks have had productive talks on an Obi Toppin deal. Hold up in talks to this point (flashback to the summer) has been Utah wanting an unprotected New York first round pick, NBA sources tell @UtahJazzNotes.
Jazz Notes
@UtahJazzNotes
Knicks have only been willing to offer protected picks that they have acquired from other teams. Source said this being a sticking point has made talks "awkward" and "feels like groundhog day"
He's improved his 3 point shooting? He's shooting 32.7%
When you're Furkan Korkmaz you don't demand anything. You ask, nicely.
Jazz Notes
@UtahJazzNotes
The Utah Jazz and New York Knicks have had productive talks on an Obi Toppin deal. Hold up in talks to this point (flashback to the summer) has been Utah wanting an unprotected New York first round pick, NBA sources tell @UtahJazzNotes.
Jazz Notes
@UtahJazzNotes
Knicks have only been willing to offer protected picks that they have acquired from other teams. Source said this being a sticking point has made talks "awkward" and "feels like groundhog day"
...Wait, what? They need some context. Why would we trade Obi and an unprotected first?
This is not someone that needs to be on the "drafted an 18 year old out of high school, six year development patience, is it?
I suspect it's related to the Beasley/Vanderbilt rumors involving Toppin, Fournier and the ever-vague "draft compensation."
Barrett is young and developing. Good this George was forced to stay away and doing so allowed a great Yankee core to develop. Stop trying to give the you away and just coach them up and give them time. How Obi plays 10 mins per game is criminal. You have a second team that can change the pace of the game in your favor like the drop of a hat but kicked to the curve to let one on one try to win the games.
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But no one knows what he will be in his prime in 4 years.
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
I agree this is a possibility but to call him the best player RIGHT NOW on the team is simply far removed from reality.
Does he have the highest upside? That is certainly an argument that could be made. There is a lot to like about his game, his drive and his character. However it is no guarantee he reaches his ceiling either.
As for right now he is a inefficient volume scorer whose defense has taken a step back. Randle aside from being quite an un-clutch player in crunch time is an absolute excellent #2 if we finally bring in a #1 to lead this team. A guy that he would inevitably have to defer to.
The best player was sarcasm damn you guys are too serious.
It was a dig at everyone wishing he was gone.
I know most knew it was.
Rose/Reddish/Fournier
for
Osman and Love (buy out Love who has an expiring deal), Windler
Knicks clear Fournier, add decent/solid Osman plus Windler and the wannabe contender but young Cavs add Reddish (who they apparently are interested in), good veteran presence Derrick Rose and some bench scoring in Reddish.
Don't really see enough upside for the Knicks on this deal. I also don't mind keeping the contracts of Fournier and Rose around if a mega deal is out there in the next 12 months...
I am passing on those Jazz deals. If anything I want a pick coming back to the Knicks.
Quote:
But no one knows what he will be in his prime in 4 years.
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
You honestly think RJ could be an all star in the next 4 years? Just look at the year Brunson is having and he didn't make the all star team. Look at some of the players who didnt make it, you really think he's capable of that?
Honest question- what is RJ Barrett really good at? What category compared to other players in the NBA?
You can excuse his play on his age or some mystery knee injury. But he's in his 4th season and honestly doesn't look to be improving or getting any better.
I'm not saying Fournier is better than him by any stretch. IU am saying right now game to game, he can be a better fit with the starters than Barrett. No reason they need to be so ridgid.
I have no clue what he could be in 4 years but look at Brunson 4 years ago at 22.
Or Beal,Kawhi, or Lavine.
You have to give the kid a break and he has improved every year in the league, he works hard and that's why Thibs likes him so much.
All I am saying is chill out a bit
Toppin is 25 and a 9th overall pick and no one is running him out of town.
In our recent history he is the best top 10 pick we have had in what 20 years?
Quote:
says no?
Rose/Reddish/Fournier
for
Osman and Love (buy out Love who has an expiring deal), Windler
Knicks clear Fournier, add decent/solid Osman plus Windler and the wannabe contender but young Cavs add Reddish (who they apparently are interested in), good veteran presence Derrick Rose and some bench scoring in Reddish.
Don't really see enough upside for the Knicks on this deal. I also don't mind keeping the contracts of Fournier and Rose around if a mega deal is out there in the next 12 months...
I am passing on those Jazz deals. If anything I want a pick coming back to the Knicks.
Rose is going to be on the books in 12 months (team option for next season). In this deal the Knicks clear Fournier and give up Reddish (who won't be back), Rose (who won't be back) and land Osman a solid role player and Windler (a guy who has been injured but was a 1st round pick) with NBA talent. Enough upside? How much upside do you expect moving 2 expiring deals and Fournier's contract?
Quote:
In comment 16025866 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says no?
Rose/Reddish/Fournier
for
Osman and Love (buy out Love who has an expiring deal), Windler
Knicks clear Fournier, add decent/solid Osman plus Windler and the wannabe contender but young Cavs add Reddish (who they apparently are interested in), good veteran presence Derrick Rose and some bench scoring in Reddish.
Don't really see enough upside for the Knicks on this deal. I also don't mind keeping the contracts of Fournier and Rose around if a mega deal is out there in the next 12 months...
I am passing on those Jazz deals. If anything I want a pick coming back to the Knicks.
Rose is going to be on the books in 12 months (team option for next season). In this deal the Knicks clear Fournier and give up Reddish (who won't be back), Rose (who won't be back) and land Osman a solid role player and Windler (a guy who has been injured but was a 1st round pick) with NBA talent. Enough upside? How much upside do you expect moving 2 expiring deals and Fournier's contract?
Rose *isn't* going to be on the books in 12 months
Problem is you have to give away so many other pieces that you end up with a huge salary and can't get rid of it when you try to rebuild again. The coach doesn't even allow some players to play so you can get a better trade for them. He lets whatever value Cam was playing himself in to just vanish.
It always amazes me how the Hest are always in these conversations, yet have zero assets..same with the Lakers
He has not improved every year. He improved from year one to year two, and has been basically the same player since, only with worse defense.
and cant forget Ben Simmons lol
Quote:
shopping Lowry hard, Heat interested in Durant.
It always amazes me how the Hest are always in these conversations, yet have zero assets..same with the Lakers
I was about to say the same thing.
I wonder if they'd be willing to give up.... DUNCAN ROBINSON?
Jazz Notes
@UtahJazzNotes
The Utah Jazz and New York Knicks have had productive talks on an Obi Toppin deal. Hold up in talks to this point (flashback to the summer) has been Utah wanting an unprotected New York first round pick, NBA sources tell @UtahJazzNotes.
Jazz Notes
@UtahJazzNotes
Knicks have only been willing to offer protected picks that they have acquired from other teams. Source said this being a sticking point has made talks "awkward" and "feels like groundhog day"
Oh really that’s been said here before.
Quote:
In comment 16025942 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
shopping Lowry hard, Heat interested in Durant.
It always amazes me how the Hest are always in these conversations, yet have zero assets..same with the Lakers
I was about to say the same thing.
I wonder if they'd be willing to give up.... DUNCAN ROBINSON?
Riley wants everyone to believe he's got his hands in every deal. They have nothing to sell. Sure he wants Durant. He has no bullets for that.
Quote:
In comment 16025822 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
But no one knows what he will be in his prime in 4 years.
Shots develop by repetition and he is a worker, he has improved his FT shooting, 3 point shooting his right hand and finishing at the rim this year. Also is working on a little turnaround in the lane.
Does he turn into a All-star I don't know, will he be here in 4 years IDK
All I can say is he bust his ass, he is resilient and takes the game
serious. I find it easy to root for the kid to be successful because he does it the right way.
BTW he was plus defender for his first 2 years I don't know why he fell off but it doesn't mean it won't go back.
You honestly think RJ could be an all star in the next 4 years? Just look at the year Brunson is having and he didn't make the all star team. Look at some of the players who didnt make it, you really think he's capable of that?
Honest question- what is RJ Barrett really good at? What category compared to other players in the NBA?
You can excuse his play on his age or some mystery knee injury. But he's in his 4th season and honestly doesn't look to be improving or getting any better.
I'm not saying Fournier is better than him by any stretch. IU am saying right now game to game, he can be a better fit with the starters than Barrett. No reason they need to be so ridgid.
I have no clue what he could be in 4 years but look at Brunson 4 years ago at 22.
Or Beal,Kawhi, or Lavine.
You have to give the kid a break and he has improved every year in the league, he works hard and that's why Thibs likes him so much.
All I am saying is chill out a bit
Toppin is 25 and a 9th overall pick and no one is running him out of town.
In our recent history he is the best top 10 pick we have had in what 20 years?
I dont mind the debate, but Beal and Lavine in their first four years still shot 38-40% from 3. That tool was there.
RJs offensive improvement (from the field but not from 3) has come at the cost of his defense.
I'm not sure what place there is in the NBA for a guy who needs high volume of shots to get his points and can't do it another way, but also isn't a defender. There's no situation where you want RJ taking lots of shots on this team. It's forced because he's there and they paid him.
@ShamsCharania
Official:
Kyrie Irving to the Dallas Mavericks.
Spencer Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, 2029 first-round pick and two second-round picks in 2027 and 2029 to the Brooklyn Nets.
Lol
Walker Kessler 100% would be worth an unprotected #1
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
4m
The Nets and Raptors have discussed a Pascal Siakam trade, per
@MikeAScotto
The Raptors are interested in Nic Claxton
Ben Simmons and several first-round draft picks have also been discussed in trade conversations
47 POINTS
4 REBOUNDS
3 ASSISTS
15/29 FG
7/11 3PT
10/11 FT
Last game: 44 PT - 6 REB - 5 AST ”
simmons or harris plus picks for 1 of the toronto F's is going to be what they zero in on. siakam is obviously the best one to get but not sure that's enough.
dont see them trading claxton and not sure they'd trade cam thomas either since he's the exact type of scorer they dont have otherwise. if its for siakam id give him up.
I don’t think Simmons is tradable right now without attaching assets to dump him. And it wouldn’t make sense for the Nets to do that right now
I am not sure he wants to play basketball anymore.
simmons or harris plus picks for 1 of the toronto F's is going to be what they zero in on. siakam is obviously the best one to get but not sure that's enough.
dont see them trading claxton and not sure they'd trade cam thomas either since he's the exact type of scorer they dont have otherwise. if its for siakam id give him up.
Yup i was confused looking at it because they dont have a 26 pick, but they have the sixers pick, they cant trsde their own 27
simmons or harris plus picks for 1 of the toronto F's is going to be what they zero in on. siakam is obviously the best one to get but not sure that's enough.
dont see them trading claxton and not sure they'd trade cam thomas either since he's the exact type of scorer they dont have otherwise. if its for siakam id give him up.
Windhorst has been pretty adamant that Simmons has negative value around the league right now. You're looking at attaching two first round picks just to clear his money.
Quote:
I'd trade an unprotected #1 for let alone throw Obi in. Maybe the way Markanen has played this year, but who knows if that's just a career year.
Walker Kessler 100% would be worth an unprotected #1
Yeah I thought about him but he's a rookie and there's no way they'd deal him so I didn't even include him in the mix.
@TheNBACentral
·
12m
“The Jazz are asking for too damn much,"
- NBA GM on trade talks with the Jazz 😅
Quote:
phi 27, their own 28 or 29, dallas 29.
simmons or harris plus picks for 1 of the toronto F's is going to be what they zero in on. siakam is obviously the best one to get but not sure that's enough.
dont see them trading claxton and not sure they'd trade cam thomas either since he's the exact type of scorer they dont have otherwise. if its for siakam id give him up.
Windhorst has been pretty adamant that Simmons has negative value around the league right now. You're looking at attaching two first round picks just to clear his money.
stein says toronto and brooklyn have talked about him and picks (https://hoopshype.com/2023/02/06/sources-nets-raptors-trade-talks-involve-pascal-siakam-ben-simmons-nic-claxton/).
toronto tried to get simmons in 2021 as a sixer and i think for some rebuilding team out there he's a worthwhile buy low if you have to salary match anyway. imo definitely better than taking on a contract like joe harris (who is just cooked).
whether or not toronto decides to go full rebuild i have no idea but ive seen people float SAS as the type of team that should roll the dice on simmons and i think that's right. he's still 26 and in a lower visibility environment there's obvious upside if he can keep working back towards what he was. he's had some good games for brooklyn but i think it's too much of a pressure cooker if they are trying to push for what may be their last run with kd.
One of the worst current contracts in the league.
that's why the best place for him is somewhere that's currently 20+ games under .500 and a small media market like SAS. for a team with no need for cap room it's a cheap gamble on a 26 year old 3x all star. when he's played his defense and transition game is still really good, he's just literally afraid to attack the basket consistently.
Quote:
regular season in Brooklyn behind 2 superstars (who are/were CONSTANTLY getting all of the media coverage) was/is too much for Simmons then what happens if/when his next team makes the playoffs? If Ben Simmons were a Knick the conversation would be NON-STOP, he's had a pretty easy ride all things considered.
that's why the best place for him is somewhere that's currently 20+ games under .500 and a small media market like SAS. for a team with no need for cap room it's a cheap gamble on a 26 year old 3x all star. when he's played his defense and transition game is still really good, he's just literally afraid to attack the basket consistently.
Its more than being afraid to attack the basket, he does absolutely nothing on offense. Can't shoot or won't shoot, doesn't screen well and doesn't even pass well anymore.
I don't think his defense or transition game is really good anymore. And that contract is really bad and long- the Spurs or anyone could easily better utilize that money/ space. That's not a cheap gamble and its not like he has the best attitude.
Maybe he returns to some of his old form but I think its doubtful with his age and attitude.
If I'm any team I would need a minimum of 2 1st round picks to even consider taking him and I'm still probably passing.
to me he's in a similar position to john collins where the return should be minimal and there's enough talent/youth to roll the dice on even if it's a lot of $. collins actually has 1 extra year under contract though similar total $.
to me he's in a similar position to john collins where the return should be minimal and there's enough talent/youth to roll the dice on even if it's a lot of $. collins actually has 1 extra year under contract though similar total $.
I don't know how could you compare Simmons to either of those guys.
Putting aside the on court issues Simmons has- he never plays and clearly doesn't want to play.
Quote:
but if it's essentially a tanking lotto team over the next year what difference does it make? you give him a shot next year and if it doesnt work after that he's just another expiring contract.
to me he's in a similar position to john collins where the return should be minimal and there's enough talent/youth to roll the dice on even if it's a lot of $. collins actually has 1 extra year under contract though similar total $.
I don't know how could you compare Simmons to either of those guys.
Putting aside the on court issues Simmons has- he never plays and clearly doesn't want to play.
simmons has played 1000 minutes this year and been a solidly positive defensive player. he has roughly 75m left over 2 years.
collins has played 1400 and been a negative value offensive and defensive player. he has roughly 75m left over 3 years.
i think you're misinterpreting the value im placing on either. the hawks have obviously tried unsuccessfully to move collins for more than a year, though the reports were their previous regime had unreasonable expectations.
my point is if you are a rebuilding team and you need to take back salary filler in any trade along with picks, wouldn't you rather that salary filler be a young player with upside as opposed to the typical mediocre journeyman in their late 20's/30's? even if they are expiring contracts who cares if you are a rebuilding team that's not planning to sign veterans in FA?
tl:dr "let's see what you can get done in the next 48 hours sean or im out in the summer"
the interesting dynamic is now phoenix, miami, and boston probably pump their breaks on dealing any FRPs.